"TEAM ATS" Is in Roswell, New Mexico TODAY, 11/29/2007

Thanks for the encouraging words there Ectoterrestrial! I don't get them often enough!

Originally posted by Ectoterrestrial
I'm not quite sure how to put that lesson into words. I would like to wait until I see what the AMIGOs have found before I set the lesson in stone. But it may not be an easy pill for some to swallow, if all things come to fruition in the end of this story.

Well I think the lesson is that people can sound "crazy" or disingenuous but still make huge contributions to Disclosure, as Mr. Stone most certainly has.

People should not be dismissed without investigation just because they sound "too far out" or "New Age" etc etc.

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
He is contributing possibly the best evidence ATS has seen yet. I don't think anyone can really argue that this isn't affecting his credibility in a hugely positive way.

The evidence comes from the GOVERNMENT FOI documents, not Clifford Stone.

All that Clifford Stone has done is to collect them and distribute them. Sure, it's probably a dedicated effort on his part and he deserves to be thanked and congratulated for doing so. Well done, Clifford Stone for allowing Team ATS the open access that you have given them.

Anyone *could* have got the same FOI documents, if they had put in the concerted effort to try to do so. It just so happens that in this instance, the documents were requested by Clifford Stone, while the SOURCE of the documents is still from the GOVERNMENT.

Speculative conjecture that relates to Clifford Stone's credibility is pointless. Further speculation about other Cults and their credibility is probably off topic, unless they can produce GOVERNMENT FOI documents that ATS can examine.

Originally posted by tezzajw
Speculative conjecture that relates to Clifford Stone's credibility is pointless. Further speculation about other Cults and their credibility is probably off topic, unless they can produce GOVERNMENT FOI documents that ATS can examine.

Well what if the "Cults" can produce, say, video footage, properly corroborated by testimony from many eyewitnesses? What if ATS could assist in that kind of endeavor as well, and host the evidence here for the world to see?

All I'm trying to say is, let's investigate these things and see what kind of evidence can be produced, before we start chanting "Cult, Cult, Cult"....

Originally posted by tezzajw

Anyone *could* have got the same FOI documents, if they had put in the concerted effort to try to do so.

Yea, but no one did. Clifford Stone was the first person to request FOI docs en-mass waaaaaay back in the 70's and there was no one else who even thought of doing that tezzajw at that point in time and I was up ALL NIGHT for the past 2 nights in the row researching on this so I know what I'm talking about.

You're not giving Clifford Stone enough credit for what he was able to accomplish especially in light of the fact that for him and his military colleagues who risked their entire military careers to support Stone in his effort to write and publish that first book of his -- not to mention the hardships his family had to go through during those years...

Now we're not just talking about FOI docs here tw.. we're talking about Clifford Stone -- THE MAN. As far as I'm concerned Clifford Stone is a HERO -- BIG TIME. A real pioneer and trailblazer in the field of ufology.
And .. Merry Christmas!
PS -- I swear, I would love to see what would happen to your avatar if I threw it into a microwave. It would probably end up looking like Daffy Duck!

reply to post by MrdDstrbr


Your welcome for the encouragement. Like I said, what the lesson is depends on what the story tells.

It could be that the lesson is that you CAN be crazy or a liar and contribute to some discovery.

Or it could be, as you say, that what the public thinks is crazy is not so much crazy as it is crazed, passionate, or driven.

Or it could be that what motivates us to search beyond the common senses is the ONLY thing that can move us forward, and that belief systems are less important than a motivation to pursue evidence upon them. Such that belief systems that lead us to shun are just as dangerous as those that lead us to obsessive devotion.

But I don't think any of these brief statements put things in enough context. I think the story itself will be the lesson, and it is more subtle.

But there is no point get over-excited and waxing about what hasn't, and might not, happen. I'll let time tell, and then I'll try to put the lesson in words when I have seen the conclusion.

[edit on 13-12-2007 by Ectoterrestrial]

Originally posted by Palasheea
Clifford Stone was the first person to request FOI docs en-mass waaaaaay back in the 70's and there was no one else who even thought of doing that...

Which we all thank him for, very graciously. It's a huge effort and I already stated that he should be congratulated for doing so. SOMEONE had to be first to request all of the documents, so well done. I really have no opinion about Clifford Stone. I have not met him, so I've never judged him one way or the other. I'm cautiously neutral, while always hoping for the smoking gun to appear.

Him permitting TEAM ATS to examine the GOVERNMENT FOI documents that he requested, has been commendable. He'll end up with a sore back, after we all have our turn giving him congratulatory slaps on it.

You're not giving Clifford Stone enough credit for what he was able to accomplish...

That's a sticking point, Palasheea. Anyone can raise awareness of the UFO issue, it doesn't mean that they are always telling the truth though. Again, he should be publicly congratulated for allowing TEAM ATS to examine those documents, but it doesn't automatically mean that everything he has ever said or done has been the absolute truth.

Perhaps, closer inspection of some documents may indeed vindicate some or many of Clifford Stone's claims - who knows, unless WE get to SEE them? Hopefully, this will happen right after the MSM has their cherrypicking session, no problems. Springer has explained the game he has to play without any room for error. Cool.

Anyone can tell a great story, however, without verifiable data, it's still just a story, even if it *probably was* true.

Personally, without any disrespect to Clifford Stone, I think that you might be overstating his 'accomplishments' just a little. As I stated before, anyone could have collected those documents, he just happened to be the first person to do so and he was damn good at what he did. Good on him, top effort, I'll buy him a beer or three if I ever meet him. Maybe even a few more after that, as I know he would have spent lots of dollars to accumulate his collection. If the GOVERNMENT FOI documents contain the smoking gun, then sure, I'll send $10 to him via PayPal. Why not, I've sent more money for less important issues before!

Hopefully, we'll all know a little more, in due course. So let's not speculate more than we need to, until we're a little more enlightened. At least Springer and Crakeur have given us a great teaser preview of things to come...

I think in your last point I might disagree with you a bit, Tez.

You might be right that anyone could have done it.

But I find it interesting that it was someone who was passionate about the memes that haunt us that did do it. And not the dispassionate journalist, or scoffing debunker, or the ufo video junky, or scientist, or politician. To me, that suggests that there is something to acting on belief that drives us to pass over that next hill on the way to discovery.

And as a cautious fence sitter, I find this to be a most interesting thing.

[edit on 13-12-2007 by Ectoterrestrial]

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
Documents are "physical", wouldn't you say? They are physical evidence, as opposed to "he said she said" evidence.

There is "physical evidence" which would consist of an actual physical object, and then there's "documentary evidence" which consists of ... documents.

So, no I don't think what we're dealing with here is physical evidence, as the term is commonly used.

I think this may have been mentioned somewhere in this thread already, but... If these documents came from "our" government, would not they be completely cleansed for "our" viewing, or, "researching" pleasure?

Yes, I know we are all human, and we all make mistakes. But, we are not really talking a human issue here are we. I love the fact that ATS exists, and that the guys that run it are, like most here, in search for cold hard facts, evidence, that proves the government is full of crap (who really does not know that already) about the ET subject. I just can't grasp how we, them, you, I, or anyone would be able to prove anything from government documents.

There is a reason why ET does not land on the Whitehouse lawn. When we find (understand) the answer to "that" question, we will know why everything else is the way it is, has been, and always will be.

Originally posted by knows_but_doesnt
I think this may have been mentioned somewhere in this thread already, but... If these documents came from "our" government, would not they be completely cleansed for "our" viewing, or, "researching" pleasure?[...]

There is a reason why ET does not land on the Whitehouse lawn. When we find (understand) the answer to "that" question, we will know why everything else is the way it is, has been, and always will be.

And how are you exactly expecting to find the answer to that (or other) question without (re)searching?

Yes, the FOIA documents are usually heavily doctored and have been sanitized for public eyes, but you still can find out a lot from them.

Especially when you can cross reference things in different documents, or even issued by different agencies, it helps you get a more clear picture of things or find out things that by looking at just one document you can't.

From what I understood of Springer's and Crakeur's posts, that's exactly what they are doing - looking for cross references and links between documents.

Instead of saying "they'll probably find nothing on them since the documents have been cleansed" how about waiting for Springer and Crakeur to post their findings? They already said they found some interesting things.

Wait for the results and then pass judgment on that.

Welcome to New Mexico guys!!!
if the snow doesn't close the highways you should also run up north and check out the Taos Hum or chaco canyon...we got lots of cool Mysterious stuff going on round here...

Originally posted by Ectoterrestrial
Your welcome for the encouragement. Like I said, what the lesson is depends on what the story tells.

It could be that the lesson is that you CAN be crazy or a liar and contribute to some discovery.

Or it could be, as you say, that what the public thinks is crazy is not so much crazy as it is crazed, passionate, or driven.

Well ALL new Truths seem "crazy" to those who have never experienced them!

I believe that legit Contactees have experienced not only the realization that we aren't alone and there are various races that visit us, but also a lot of advanced technological and Spiritual truths as well.

They sound "crazy" or "too far out" or "New Age" to us when they try to describe these experiences, because we have no experiential frame of reference with which to comprehend them. Many of us only know and believe what our family and peers and the idiot-tube tell us is True.

In order to find the Truth we have to be willing to suspend disbelief and investigate things which may at first seem too "crazy" to be True!

reply to post by MrdDstrbr


Not a specific reply to MrdDstrbr, but I've seen your posts and have enjoyed them...

Somewhere, this thread, or on another, I read a comment that jumped out at me. It stated that there are approximately two technological civilizations in roughly every 600 cubic light years. Now, I'm not a math whiz, but I know how to do cubes. I'm assuming that meant, if you average a portion of space that incorporates 600 cubic light years, you'd find a civilization or two.

As I said, i can understand the square and the cube, but that's math. Still, imagining a cube that encompassed 600 cubic LY...10 cubed equals 1000, so would this hypothetical 600 cubic LY have sides equal to LESS than 10 LY? Given our understanding of the size of just our Galaxy, then if I am calculating correctly, that's a pretty crowded place.

Perhaps the assertion was, that within a boundary of about 600 LY per side, there are about two civilizations...Ah, that begins to sound reasonable. [that works out to about 18,000,000 cubic LY, if my math is correct].

Our Galaxy is 100,000 LY in diameter, give or take. [I'm not allowing for volume, just diameter]. That would mean, on a straight line estimation, about 160 civilizations, if the 600 LY number was consistent. Of course, these are all estimates...and given the amount of Main Sequence stars, such as our Sun, that currently exist, and given the difference between corporeal lifespans versus geologic and stellar time frames...well, it becomes more and more difficult to adequately provide estimates as to the plausibility of other technological civilizations.

But, this is a large, well-established Galaxy, and we happen to reside in a spiral 'arm' that is relatively safe...not too dense, no strong radiation sources close enough to harm, yet. SO, it is conceivable...maybe, even, plausible, that our 'neighborhood' is conducive to organic life to the extent that other civilizations could exist that are technologically advanced enough to have conquered the science needed to travel vast distances.

In summation, I applaud our team for going to Roswell...not because it is Roswell, but because that is where they tended to follow the path to, hopefully, disclosure in our lifetime. As you, if you, read the earlier pages, you will understand the strategy being employed...I certainly hope the efforts of these people are not wasted.

Thanks


[edited spelling]


[edit on 15-12-2007 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Somewhere, this thread, or on another, I read a comment that jumped out at me. It stated that there are approximately two technological civilizations in roughly every 600 cubic light years.

weedwhacker, they're completely unsubstantiated figures that do nothing other than to derail the topic. No one can know the population density of alien races in our galaxy, it's pure speculation.

600 cubic light years would be a cube of around 8.43 light years long, or a sphere of radius around 5.23 light years.

Back to the thread... let's just hope that there's something in the FOI documents that prove there's at least one other alien race out there - regardless of how many light years away it might be.

I am really quite excited by the prospects hinted at by the information, or at least the trail of information hinted at in the OP. But otherwise, this thread is one hell of a tease!

Anyway, good luck in your endeavour to make this exposition a priority of the main stream media.

*Bump*

I know it's the holidays and all, but considering just how important this news COULD be, I was wondering if any headway had been made?

Anyone with an idea when we'll hear more on this? I certainly hope this doesn't go into the ATS blackhole.

reply to post by NGC2736


Like you, I was hoping for an early Christmas present from the Amigos, but having said that, I am a patient observer and time is on our side.
Now we just need the mass media to front up with their gonads in one hand and the docs in the other!!

...also want to *bump* this one, holiday season, this one is an exciting story should Cliff Stone be totally legit about some of his claims.

I understand the Team wanting to push this to the MSM but I doubt it's worth holding onto the info until.... when?

Look at the ridicule Dennis K. got about UFOs; mind you, the MSM is covering the Japanese UFO clip, but when a Japanese official mentions "Godzilla", again, I doubt any serious nature *they* give to such stories.

www.nytimes.com...


[edit on 23-12-2007 by anhinga]

reply to post by NGC2736



This all takes time, lots of it. First we have to get the producers to sign an NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement) which will prevent them from being able to take our information public without us involved to keep the facts straight. (that's one of the most common ways they spin this subject the wrong way)

Getting an NDA signed takes weeks since the network's legal staff has to review everything, etc...

The holidays have cost us a couple weeks on top of all this.

We plan on being in New York and meeting with the producers by mid January. Then, IF they decide to green light the episode it will have to be produced and scheduled for airing which is another several weeks.

Realistically, it will probably be late spring/early summer before this gets out. The system is slow and those who are impatient lose the chance to get in front of 30+ million people in one shot.

The good news is we will know if they are willing to do the show or not very quickly since we are requiring a 24 hour yes/no after we show them what we have.

Springer...


[edit on 12-23-2007 by Springer]

reply to post by Springer


Thank you for keeping us posted on the timetable for all of this. I know we seem antsy, but we have a great deal of confidence in you guys. If we didn't care so much, it wouldn't be important enough for us to be wanting to hurry the process.

You guys are "on the ground" where this is, and we trust you to handle it in the best way possible.

Go Team!