Why is the World so Screwed Up; Part 0.1

Originally posted by runetang
right now they know that if they tried to do that, they'd fail, and so they act like they have us in their interests, but the truth as we all know is, 98% of them dont. and the 2% that do never win an election.

i dont know if thats quite true but i bet its pretty darn close.

most people complain about their government and what it does and doesnt do. i wonder how many of those actually tried to use the system. and no i dont agree with it all and there is a lot of b/s you have to go through. but its been my experince that if you give it a little time and try to work it, it often works in your favor.

heck after all they do want you vote and will go through great lengths to get it,

Asyanax,

It is good that you have an opposing view, allow me to respond.

1. To take control is human nature. Yes, this means you.

I can understand why you use the example of natural selection in your first point. To an extent I agree that the stronger members of society at a given time steer society in a sociological context. Unfortunately this is the case at the moment, but those who were perceived stronger in the past or got a hold of resources (money, land, minerals, gold, oil etc) and power are using their historically acquired wealth & power to keep everyone below them. Those, whose predecessors built up the means to control others now do everything in their power to control them.

2. Rule today, ruined tomorrow

I disagree with the statement you made about there being no permanent elite. Look at the Royal Houses of Europe. Look at the Wealthy East Coast of America families like the Astors, the Rockefellers etc. All of whom have been in positions of power as they can “buy politicians”. The economic fact that the wealthiest 10% of the world controls 80-90% of the worlds wealth should be an indicator of the fact there is an entrenched elite.

3. The wealthy and powerful are a house divided

Do you have proof of this division, it seems that a lot of them are singing from the same hymn sheet. An example is the Builderburg meetings to discuss the agenda regarding the planets future in the subsequent years. If the division you are referring to is the claims by Benjamin Fulford that the Eastern Elite, Triads & Yakuza have sent death threats the Western Elite. This has been dismissed by many as a Hoax.

4. The Conspiracy Theorists Constitution

Yes you have a point here about the lower classes surviving. But that depends on your definition of surviving. Yes in the west we have a pretty decent standard of living. But what about those in other countries, like Hmm Iraq, Afghanistan, Zimbabwe, Ethiopia, Sudan to name but a few. Are people surviving there? No. The multi-national corporations and corrupt governments of aforementioned examples are so intent with controlling the resources of the planet to use for their own gain. The “lower” classes suffer.

Your point on education this is a divided issue. On one hand yes we are becoming more connected and better educated via the internet, if we use the internet to visit sites like ATS. Unfortunately most people do not. Most use it for porn, paying bills and piracy. Yes the internet is a wonderful tool but alas the tool is only as good as the one wielding it.

Now your view on the current state of the Education system, yes schools and universities teach all of those subjects, but to what level compared to the past.

I have a friend who did a degree between 10-12 years ago. He found it challenging. The same friend is now doing a degree in a related subject matter. And he has remarked how easy the exams are now as in the past if you had to use formula for calculations you had to memorize them, now they give you a sheet of formulae to take into the exams with you. Also he remarked that most of the questions are worded in a way that the answer is in the question.

I myself can corroborate this fact as I have graduated from university twice in different subject areas. The first course was challenging. The second course was more interested in indoctrinating me into a socialist way of ideological thought than teaching me the skills needed for the career path chosen.

I can wholeheartedly say that the education system in the UK has been “dumbed down” to a point where the recent graduates do not know what reggae music is or what garlic looks like, most of the younger generation in this country from what I have observed have no interest in history, philosophy, politics, they are more interested on who is going to win Big Brother or Pop Idol.

My counterpoint to your statement, I quote; “Yes, after spending thousands of years creating this incredibly complex, interdependent global society, we will, of course, encourage any war that destabilizes it and endangers our own elite position. We're quirky like that.”

Have you not heard of the political and military tactic of Divide and Conquer or Divide and Rule, a tactic used since the times of the Roman Empire. It can be found in the writings of Sun-Tzu and Niccolo Machiavelli.

Another point is that the Elite (read Governments and Corporations) make a hell of a lot of money from funding wars, from Arms sales to lending warring factions money to buy arms. They also profit from reconstruction after warfare.

Warfare is one of the most profitable enterprises, the elite can encourage. It also has the advantage that it culls the herd of the pesky lower classes, especially males at their healthiest and most physically powerful, which could be seen as a threat to the elite.

5. Why do people believe such nonsense, Mummy?

Why do they? Maybe it is because the people are beginning to see the rampant corruption in the world, maybe it is the public are sick of being lied to by their governments who pass laws to favour corporate interests and diminish the rights of the individual. Or perhaps they see that the government is proactively seeking to destroy the nuclear family, by bank rolling single parent families, abolishing tax breaks for working parents and by socializing childcare provisions etc.

The reason why they believe is not the point. The point is that they believe there is something wrong systemically is and this belief is growing amongst the general (non-elite) population.

In reference to the economic system, it is plainly obvious that it is geared to protect the wealthy class’ assets whilst taxing the middle and lower classes into survival or subsistence state. All you need to do is look into accountancy regulations regarding companies or tax law in relation to non-profit foundations.

Another economic factor is the dilution of the workforce in the last twenty to thirty years. The plain simple economic tool of inflation is the root cause. Twenty or thirty years ago a family could be supported by one bread winner. Fast forward to today, where if a couple want to settle down in the UK and buy or even rent a place, both will have to work full time to make ends meet. Because there are more people in the workforce, there are more people to tax, but the value of an individual’s labour in monetary terms is diminished.

I do however agree with your statement regarding the frivolous use of Credit in the current economic climate. Yes people are “silly and irresponsible” for over extending themselves. But that ties into my next points that, these “silly and irresponsible” people have been barraged with advertising to enforce their belief that they can have it all and have it now and not pay a penny for six months.

An example of this over advertising of credit facilities is when you buy a magazine, it doesn’t really matter what kind. For this example I will use BIKE magazine, a motorbike magazine. Every month when I buy it I will open it and low and behold, a loan company flyer, a credit card company flyer, the same goes for other magazines that I purchase from time to time regardless of their content.

If you look at the historical context of the advertising of credit and how easy it is to obtain credit, you can see that this widespread heavy reliance on credit is a relatively new economic trend. Twenty or Thirty years ago it was very difficult to obtain credit from a financial institution, people used to save up for the items they wanted. Now you can go to the post office to mail something overseas and you will be offered a credit card.

The problem with the availability of credit at the moment is that the temptation to take it is everywhere. Obviously the smart thing to do is not take it, but not everyone has willpower unfortunately.

Final point about the media, the example of bread and circuses on Fox/Sky/CNN/BBC, I mentioned it because they are not reporting what is going on in the world, they are a propaganda mouthpiece for the government and powers that be. The fact that their viewing figures are falling Quarter on Quarter.

The reason more and more people are beginning to get their news and entertainment from the internet. Unfortunately Advertisers have not caught on fully. The point that mankind always wants more, due to the concept of a future. I agree on as a basic survival level, storing food having adequate shelter and heat source.

Advertising theory at its core is an economic method to encourage or manufacture demand for a product. This method was developed out the theories developed by Edward Bernays. The Advertising industry exists because a lot of companies produce products that people do not necessarily need and need to persuade the masses to buy products that they do not need.

reply to post by djaybeetoo
Thank you for taking the trouble to reply to my post at such length.

Pardon me if I decline to reply at comparable length. There really isn't any point. No matter what people like me say, the lazy and the irresponsible will always find a way to put the blame for their uselessness on other people, and people like yourself will continue to give them aid and comfort with your conspiracy theories, when what they really need is a good strong kick in the pants.

Long live the elite, say I.

Although I do not agree with you on some ponits, I do agree that the masses need a swift kick up the backside to wake them up and they do need educating.

Point 1: Do not borrow; only buy what you can afford by saving.

Answer: Do not borrow, forget credit unless you are buying business assets, (not drugs or labour).

Point 2: Do not believe what your government tells you.

Answer; They are predilicted to lie to you as the wish you believe them and that what they do is in your best interests, so they get re-elected to put their snouts in the gravy train troughs, like the ravenous piggies that they are, ad nauseum.

Point 3: Do not believe mainstream media, especially in the UK we have to pay for our propaganda over $200 per houshold. I am not kidding. A good way to justify this is to look at the six o'clock news before Tony Blair came into power and the conservatives were in power. The BBC News service had a Blue colur scheme.

This was to match the the political party in powers colours, lilke gangs in the US. When the Labour Party came into power with Tony Blair, the colour scheme turned to a red hue, symbolising the Labour party. This happened overnight and has continued for the last 9 years. A side point is that the current government appoints the director-general (head-honcho) of the BBC. And the only appoint those who are ideologically aligned. (see point 2), find out for your selves.

Point 4: Your employer is your slave master, does he/she treat you well?

i.e. do the you pay you your worth an when they record record profits do they give you record pay rises. I guess not.

Point 5: Those in society who are above you would not like you to be there as you will make them less superior.

i.e. You come up with an idea which will increase productivity or efficiency and they promote a brain dead moron instead of you?

Point 6: If you are unhappy in your employment; quit and start your own company that embraces your morals and ideals. It is not as hard as you think.

Point 7: If you do start your own company be aware or certain law regarding sexual and racial discrimination as especially the former (i.e sexual discrimination) will cost you dear. My advice look at the law books and do some background research on why the laws were passed and who funded it.

Point 8: Use the internet to find out what is going on in the world. Most corporations promote morons as they (middle management) do not want people to come up with original ideas and show them up.

Salut

Peace to all



[edit on 27-11-2007 by djaybeetoo]

Point by point

Originally posted by djaybeetoo
Point 1: Forget credit unless you are buying business assets.

Agreed. And make sure that you have a very good chance of realizing enough from that asset to pay off your debt and make a reasonable profit.

Point 2: Do not believe what your government tells you.

Governments sometimes have to lie to the people in the people's interest. This is simple statesmanship and only a very naive person would find fault with it.

But you suggest, furthermore, that governments sometimes lie to the people in their own interest. Well, if this happens in a democracy and the electorate does not punish the liars, it has only itself to blame.

Point 3: Do not believe mainstream media.

Say, rather, that the trustworthiness of the source of any statement is only one of many possible indicators of the truth of that statement. On the whole, the 'mainstream media' in rich democracies are quite trustworthy when it comes to the facts. It is in the presentation and interpretation of these facts that they are untrustworthy. In this they are no different from any private citizen, you and I included. That's just human nature, which is something one - naturally - takes into account at all times.

Point 4: Your employer is your slave master, does he/she treat you well?

Your employer is not your slave master. You and he are participants in a mutually binding contract whereby he gives you pay and various benefits in exchange for certain services - labour, if you like. If you don't like the terms of the contract you can always negotiate better terms, either with him or a different employer. Can't do that? Oh dear, looks like the law of supply and demand has struck again. Maybe you and your fellow-workers should strike too?

do the you pay you your worth

Who determines what you are worth? Neither you nor he, as interested parties, are competent to decide that. It is left to the market to decide, though government may intervene to ensure that you receive a minimum wage and certain statutory benefits.

when they record record profits do they give you record pay rises.

If the record profit was personally due to you, they should and very often do - see how salepeople, for example, depend far more on commissions than on income for their salaries. And if it was the result of a team effort, then by all means share the wealth. But I suspect you're talking about windfall profits, which are mainly due to market-related events. In a situation like that, why the blistering blue blazes should anyone (except the owners of the company) get a cent extra?

Point 5: Those in society who are above you would not like you to be there as you will make them less superior.

If the people above you think you're 'the right sort' (whatever that may be; it varies) - or, better still, if they think you can help them consolidate their own wealth, power and influence - they'll actually help you rise. There are still plenty of other groundlings for them to feel superior to.

Your remaining points appear to be of personal (to you) rather than general relevance, so I shall not comment on them.

reply to post by Astyanax


Okay Bubba,

Point One.

We are in agreement, sweet and chilling.

Point Two.

You actually believe that the governement has the right to lie to the people? Please define in what is the peoples interest, paying more taxes to fund wars based on lies, i mean misinterpreted intelligence, which the intelligence gatherers have come forward to say that the intellegence was politicised????

Point Three.

Being that the mainstream medias main source is the government, please refer to point two.

Point Four.

Ask your self a simple question, why do you work for someone or work at all, to pay bills, to buy stuff. The person who employs you is not going to pay you more than the minimun that he or she can pay you. That is the hard and cold reality, if you do not work for yourself, you are a slave to working for the benefit of someone elses dreams apart from your own. (double emphasis on purpose).

Point Five

Please look at history, any societal clique who has supremacy amongst others will tend to defend their dominant position. Watch some goddamn natural history documentries. (nature and animal behaviour can actually teach you something)

I know this was a delayed response, but hell I have had better things to do.



edited for spelling

[edit on 24-12-2007 by djaybeetoo]