How Masonic is London??? VERY (My amateur investigation for ATS)

reply to post by LightinDarkness


I don't mean it's like a religion. I was just comparing it because, for example, not everyone in Islam is a terrorist, but, like with all religions, there are extremists that pervert the belief system. Same with freemasonry. A lot of bad world leaders are masons, and they pervert and damage the image of freemasonry.

That's all I meant by that.

I kinda thought he had some interesting findings. It seems that on he just stumbled on some thoughts on his way to work and wanted to share them with us. I knew what he meant by a masonic cross because I have interest in the Templars but I know how not everyone would and therefore pounce on him.

As he said in the title "(My amateur investigation for ATS)"

I think he became defensive and then started slinging insults as a result.

Getting back to the OP's findings. If I saw that cross from above I too would be excited thinking that there might be some hidden symbolism in it.

I bet that old London has some older buildings with markings or designs that when built were meant to not be opening obvious.

Just my 2 cents

Cory

[edit on 24-11-2007 by corsig]

reply to post by LightinDarkness


Well at no point have I said Masons are evil... the only thing I stated was they are connected to conspiracy. I also didn't say they own the banks if you read back.

People seem to be arguing against things that haven't been said... What can I say your wrong....

My point was How Masonic is London and I still haven't given all the evidence..... I dont think I was slinging insults either just replying to aggressive posts. Whatever I post now will be pounced on without being open minded... good luck with that!!!

I think we've got a bit off track here...

Originally posted by II HAL II
My point was How Masonic is London and I still haven't given all the evidence..... I dont think I was slinging insults either just replying to aggressive posts. Whatever I post now will be pounced on without being open minded... good luck with that!!!

No, I don't think you were slinging insults either. And I'm waiting for the rest of this 'evidence', although the stuff I have seen to date is circumstantial at best.

Look, I hope you don't think I'm giving you a hard time, but we need to make sure we're talking about the same things. The conspiracy-ridden illuminati-related masons of CT folklore bear no relationship to the organization I joined in 1993, in any way, shape or form. For those who know, really know, how the organization functions phrases like 33 degree freemason are a dead giveaway that the individual doesn't understand how the organization works. In England the Rose Croix degree (which gives the 33rd as you understand it) is a side order, and a minor one at that. The whole structure of freemasonry is different in the UK than it is in the US, and what applies to one may not necessarily apply to the other.

I hope you'll forgive me for not taking cross-shaped roofs and geometric shapes in the street pattern as 'evidence' of anything. I await your further images with interest, as continuing this thread will inevitably have the effect of increasing your knowledge about freemasonry and mine about what non-masons think about masonry. Assuming you stick with it, of course.

Originally posted by corsig
I think he became defensive and then started slinging insults as a result.

I agree, and when people start to attack with vitriolic and snide remarks, attacking not the content, but ridiculing the poster, I think most of us would get defensive too. It was pretty sad to see how the attacks were made even by people with pointy hats on.

Seems that freemasons, like scientologists, know how to handle people who try and lift the cover and see whats under the facade. Ridicule and personal attacks.

Remind me never to poke a freemason with a question... I see that they bight.

II HAL II

Start over fresh now that the understanding is out and I am sure my fellow ATS'ers will help you with the answers you are trying to find.

I agree that London is very Masonic, there is no doubt especially with UGLE forming 300 years ago. The oldest of buildings that are hundreds of years old are sure to have something in them.

That doesn't mean it's a conspiracy involved but a way of marking their property.

Add more pictures of what you found and show us the cool things out there to be discovered

Cory

Originally posted by II HAL II


Ok let call it the triangle and eye, are they Masonic???

They are used in Masonry. But they are not "Masonic" per se. In other words, those symbols were used, and continue to be used, by other people besides Masons.

Ok I'm supposed to take your word for that over many others, are you a 33' Mason? do you not think there are things you are not told by your own secretive organization??

Appak, another member of ATS, is a 33° Scottish Rite Mason. I am a 32° Knight Commander of the Court of Honour. However, just because someone is 33° or KCCH does not necessarily mean that they know more about Masonry or Masonic history than anybody else. And our organization is not "secretive", it's a very public fraternal institution.

hi, this is my first post on ats, so if it goes wrong, sorry.

There is no denying masonic activity in london. There is masonic activity and there symbols in virtually every town and city in the whole country with each having at least one members lodge, usually architecturally suiting the area. And always showing there symbology,
they stopped hiding a long time ago, they leave a trail for the intelligent to see, and then leave it up to you whether you want to follow or not.

There is one undeniable masonic sign in london, it is a road sign,
it is near parliament square and shows the compass and square hinting a massive G. this sign should be evident to even first degree masons.

i227.photobucket.com...

sorry for the poor quailty its from my mobile

hi, this is my first post on ats, so if it goes wrong, sorry.

There is no denying masonic activity in london. There is masonic activity and there symbols in virtually every town and city in the whole country with each having at least one members lodge, usually architecturally suiting the area. And always showing there symbology,
they stopped hiding a long time ago, they leave a trail for the intelligent to see, and then leave it up to you whether you want to follow or not.

There is one undeniable masonic sign in london, it is a road sign,
it is near parliament square and shows the compass and square hinting a massive G. this sign should be evident to even first degree masons.

i227.photobucket.com...

sorry for the poor quailty its from my mobile

II HAL II

If you want to discuss this in greater detail then please feel free to message me as I have just joined because of your post and would be open to sharing ideas.

Originally posted by j03
There is one undeniable masonic sign in london, it is a road sign,
it is near parliament square and shows the compass and square hinting a massive G. this sign should be evident to even first degree masons.

Look, I really don't want to come across as a curmudgeon, but...

What!?!

Road signs in the UK are topographic, by which I mean they Graphically rather than Exactly represent the road pattern ahead, in order to assist drivers without being overcomplicated. If the road pattern ahead, when simplified, creates a familiar pattern it is nothing more than coincidence.

I know the junction in question - the road pattern looks nothing like a G or a square and compass. But the road sign does. So what.

Let me assure you that those signs were not put up by the masons, but by the Department of Transport - an organization in which masonic activity is greatly exaggerated

If you want to see real masonic activity go to Great Queen Street, off Holborn, where Grand Lodge is situated. You can even trick them into giving you a tour of the building by using the secret masonic phrase "may I have a tour of the building please?" This will immediately gain you access to the heart of masonic London.

Just don't tell anyone I told you or my balls may be blackened.

reply to post by Trinityman


That gets my vote for best reply I've seen on ATS so far. Bravo! Hopefully your - er - "balls" wont be blackened too much for revealing the secret

reply to post by II HAL II


Sheesh, no wonder I stopped posting at ATS. Endless attacks. Some people just grab one word in an entire post and then spend 2 pages making sarcastic comments about it and detracting from the original point. Do they know what they're doing? Or how it looks to the rest of us? Especially how it looks to already paranoid conspiracy enthusiasts. I can't believe that they have nothing better to do then to work ever so hard on making someone feel like sh*t. Besides that, it makes these threads way too long and very hard to read. Sorry IIHALII, but most people on ATS never heard of constructive criticism or even civility.

Anyways on topic... I made a thread about symbols being embedded in street layouts before. I would link to it, but all the pictures are offline now (and the Mods replaced them all with links which makes less of an impact), so it's no longer very impressive. Anyways the point of the thread was that symbols can and are embedded in street layouts, although they never come out perfect, geometrically or otherwise; and are often incomplete. Unfortunatley so many people lack any remnant of an imagination and if the streets don't spell out: "Masons were here!!1!LOL!1!" then they won't even accept the possibility. To prove my point I used the street layout of Sandusky, Ohio. It was designed specifically to have a square & compass, but the final product was a far cry from clear masonic symbolism. In fact almost no part of the original shapes survived being placed into a grid of streets. If it wasn't for the recognized fact that Sandusky Ohio was indeed meant to have a square and compass, no one here would believe it. It would be another: "Well if you look at any grid patter with diagonal lines, you're going to see all kinds of shapes...blah blah blah, I have no imagination."

There appears to be a severe lack of information on London street layouts on the internet. Most of the work is going to have to be done by people 'reading the clues' on the street level as you are doing. I have no doubt that you and others will find alot more if you keep digging.

Here is a website where someone has done their own research into the City of London layout. Link.

And at the bottom of it he talks about "The Circus" and "Bath" (Boy, London has some strange names for places), and there was just a BBC documentary on how a Freemason designed it with alot of not-so-hidden symbols. Here is the BBC page for that documentary. Link.

Edit: Let me add this for a very special someone who requested it on page one of this topic: ,

[edit on 12/21/2007 by ViolatoR]

reply to post by ViolatoR


Hmm. "Endless attacks" now equal post after post of logic, reason, and evidence about why so called "masonic signs" are most likely nothing. I guess we now call everyone that disagrees with us and offers contrary evidence based on reason and logic "endless attackers"? If people want to live in their own little world and not have their views verified by everyone else, posting on a message board is not a good way to do it.

Originally posted by ViolatoR
although they never come out perfect, geometrically or otherwise; and are often incomplete.

Thank you for stating the flaw in your own logic. Do you really think that people who want to paint their NWO conspiracy agenda in the streets would take the time to make only incomplete symbols? Talk about not showing your power. If someone was really going to start making symbols using streets, why waste so much time and resources doing it and then leave out some huge section or distort the shape? If the masons (or anyone else) tried to put symbolism into city streets WHY IS IT you have no "proof" that this was tried in other cities? (By the way, I still doubt you can find proof that a city intentionally tried to put masonic symbolism in a city - but it might be possible). Why is it you have no parallel proof for the rest of these symbols?

What your statement shows is what the foundation of most of these street conspiracies really are: if you look hard enough, you will find symbols and words in some sector of some city, some where. Especially large and complex cities with lots of interlocking street angles (like Washington DC). If I looked hard enough I could find the letters "A T S" in a city too - would that BE PROOF OF AN ATS CONPISRACY? AH HA!

Do you see the absurdity? Of course not - but alas, I am a glutton for punishment. As you so clearly point out, it takes a fertile imagination to believe in these.


[edit on 21-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]

reply to post by LightinDarkness


Well, that didn't take long.

Originally posted by ViolatoR
Some people just grab one word in an entire post and then ... make sarcastic comments about it detracting from the original point. ... most people on ATS never heard of constructive criticism or even civility.

Originally posted by LightinDarkness
Hmm. "Endless attacks" now equal post after post of logic, reason, and evidence about why so called "masonic signs" are most likely nothing. I guess we now call everyone that disagrees with us and offers contrary evidence based on reason and logic "endless attackers"? If people want to live in their own little world and not have their views verified by everyone else, posting on a message board is not a good way to do it.

Imagniation: im·ag·i·na·tion –noun
1. the faculty of imagining, or of forming mental images or concepts of what is not actually present to the senses.
2. the action or process of forming such images or concepts.



An interactive map from Sandusky's website: www.ci.sandusky.oh.us...

[edit on 12/21/2007 by ViolatoR]

Imagination's a wonderful thing although it can also make connections that aren't there. Take the 'devil's-head-in-the-9-11-smoke' for example. The "endless attacks" comment has been reasonably dealt with by LightinDarkness and comparing a relatively new settlement like Sandusky with London (which predates Masonry by a couple of millennia) is a bit of a non-starter.

reply to post by ViolatoR


Its too bad that no one did what you claimed. Yet again, just more attempts by people who refuse to acknowledge that there just may be no conspiracy to insult everyone else. Nice use of a straw man logical fallacy. Invalid, as always.

I am happy for you that you found a historical marker that proves the masons tried to put a square and compass into the streets of a random city in Ohio. Now, where is the parallel proof for the rest of them? Oh thats right, you don't have any, because you are using your imagination to find things that are not there...

And now for London which was built before freemasonry, though not before all secret societies, many of which have influenced modern societies. Did you look at this picture from London (from my last post)? And now compare that to this picture ->

Now won't you even entertain the possibility that a building built by a freemason, in London, with a beehive sculpture on it might, just might, be the result of a freemason putting a freemasonic symbol on his building? In fact that picture was a reply to a freemason on page1 of this topic who specifically requested a beehive. Somehow I don't think it will be good enough.

(Edited to make it more readable for the 3 people who have actually contributed to this topic.)

----- Unfortunate Off-Topic Discussion -----

Please ignore this if you are here to discuss the actual topic.

Well I'm not a freemason so I don't know why they would put a symbol there even if it will be horribly distorted. You will have to ask someone else. As for the intentional placement of a symbol: I did have proof, and showed it, but now that I answered your question it still isn't good enough for you.

As for parallels, I did not say that Sandusky is the hub of masonic cities or that one city proves all cities to be fileld with symbolism. It was just proof that: "yes, masons do embed symbols into cities. It has happened at least once which we can all agree on. Period, end of story."

You (LightinDarkness) did exactly what I said you would. You took "endless attacks" and made an entire off-topic post about it. And you ended that post by restating a known theory: "grid systems can make it look like there's symbols there that might not have been used on purpose/knowingly." Yah, we all got that. I agree that grid systems create pictures. It's true, but now that we're all familiar with it, lets move on. At least my posts are on topic and add information to the on-going discussion of freemasonic symbols in London.

Without constructive critisicm, posts like yours add nothing to the topic at hand, do not give new alternatives, and do not make for fun reading for the poor souls who stumble on a thread which has been deliberately taken off topic. If you reply to this post with more off topic information, wild accusations as to my "straw man tactics" (laughable), or more "grid systems create symbols," you will just adding to the nonsense that has plagued these threads for years. I would love to respond to a post that was on topic (this one being: freemasonic symbols in London) and actually added something interesting and worthwhile to the on-going discussion. In fact, I would rather have my u2u inbox filled with your ravings, rather than to have you, and those like you, filling a thread with rantings, attacks and massive sarcasm which belittles the participants and distracts massively from the topic.

The only on-topic posts were made by the OP, myself, and Trinityman; as well as one by Fitzgibbon, and one by j03. These few posts are spead through 3 pages of crapola making it difficult for others to enjoy the discussion.

[edit on 12/23/2007 by ViolatoR]

Oops, somehow it double posted. Removed.

[edit on 12/23/2007 by ViolatoR]

reply to post by ViolatoR


Your proof of the masonic attempt in a city in Ohio is more than enough for me. You have "found one." However, it would be a hasty generalization logical fallacy to then assume that every time you find a pattern in city streets IT MUST be some sort of masonic conspiracy or NWO cabal. All you have found is that ONE mason attempted to embed signs. If you have parallel proof for these other "designs" in other cities - I await them.

Finding signs of a masonic london without such proof as you provided for the city in Ohio will to me still simply be fertile imaginations at work. I am quite sure you could find masonic symbolism lodges or buildings previously owned by masons. That is not a surprise or indicative of any conspiracy. But the original post was instead trying to find masonic symbolism on a much grander scale.

Your continued whining about "endless attacks" only shows how much evidence you lack. The more you do this, the more it becomes apparent that you have no substance behind your claims. You should learn that just because people disagree with you and offer logic to the contrary does not mean it is an attack. If you only want people to verify your beliefs, do not post on a message board.

You claim nothing is constructive criticism because to you, anything that questions you isn't constructive. Your not interested in a discussion, you want people to simply validate your posts. I won't do it, and the more you use these logical tactics and logical fallacies the more I will point them out. Perhaps you should buy a logic book if you do not understand what a straw man argument is. Your lack of knowledge is not my problem. Stop spamming this thread.