Children herded like cattle into Maryland courthouse for forced vaccinations

Originally posted by RogerT
My goodness, don't take it personally bro' !

I was replying to your post (the article), not to you

[edit on 22-11-2007 by RogerT]

My bad, I thought you were talking to me.

Hey, I understand that people have fears, even though many are unfounded. I wasn't trying to make the point that vaccines are good or bad, I just want people to see there are two sides of the story. But I will put some evidence down because you asked for it.

Here's some links, including a good video.
CDC
Children's Hospital of Philadelphia (Video is here)

Right, I am a new comer to this thread and I only want to know one thing.

WHERE are the immunisations taking place?

In your own home?
In a vehicle?
In local tents?
In recreation/leisure/sports halls?
In health centres?
In hospitals?

Or is it a mixture?

Originally posted by Chyort
Here's some links, including a good video.
CDC
Children's Hospital of Philadelphia (Video is here)

Well the CDC is an effective PR mouthpiece for big pharma vaccine USA. It's a big site. Could you be a little more specific and point me to some evidence on the site that proves vaccinations have eradicated any disease, or even that they effectively protect an individual from getting a disease - I already spent most of my childhood and early adulthood being TOLD what to believe, now I like to ask questions

The CHOP video: the page starts off like this:

"Vaccines: Separating Facts from Fear” is a 27-minute video that answers questions many parents have about vaccines. "

- so basically a PR video?

Then it says:

"It also contains the stories of several parents whose children suffered vaccine-preventable diseases."

- so basically a scare mongering PR video?

Look, is there some REAL evidence in there? Please be honest. If so, then I'll spend a valuable 27 minutes watching it.

edit: Ok, rather than spend 27 mins watching, or waiting for your reply, I did a random click on the site which took me to diptheria info. The site states:

Incidence of diphtheria
In the 1920s, diphtheria was a common cause of death in children and adolescents. At its peak, about 150,000 cases of diphtheria occurred in the United States every year! The diphtheria vaccine, first used in the United States in the early 1940s, has virtually eliminated the disease. Now we see fewer than two cases a year.

Which is basically the bog standard pro vaccine PR story. It's misleading, and the conclusion that vaccines eliminated the disease is bogus.

Take a look at diptheria cases going back to 1880 and you get quite a different picture:



Anyone can clearly see that diptheria deaths had already reduced by around 90% BEFORE the vaccination was even introduced, and was on a continual decline. It is impossible from the data to conclude that the vaccine had any effect at all.

You can also see why they quote the 1920 case figures instead of the 1940 figures just prior to vaccine introduction. That's pure deception. And you want to trust these people with your kids health?

I'll assume that this kind of misunderstanding, misrepresenting, or perhaps bare faced lying, is the common theme on this site, so I'll not be wasting my time on the video.

If you've something else, please let me know.


[edit on 22-11-2007 by RogerT]

reply to post by RogerT


I'm all for asking questions. It's the best way to get information.

I kinda expected that you wouldn't consider the CDC as a good evidence, even though I believe it's one of the better ones.

The video was from a children's hospital; I doubt there would be much fear mongering.

I mean, you posted a graph from www.vaccination.inoz.com..., which is a website trying to make profit off people who don't want vaccinations.

If I'm writing a paper for college, and I used your source, I'd be given an F on my paper. It's just not credible. Now, if you show me evidence from peer-reviewed papers, from which the CDC basis their findings on, I would be more apt to believe you.

Here's another source from the American Academy of Pediatrics, which are not trying to sell anything. However, I may expect that you'll say they're a mouthpiece for the pharmacutical companies as well.
AAP

Originally posted by Chyort

I mean, you posted a graph from www.vaccination.inoz.com..., which is a website trying to make profit off people who don't want vaccinations.

If I'm writing a paper for college, and I used your source, I'd be given an F on my paper. It's just not credible. Now, if you show me evidence from peer-reviewed papers, from which the CDC basis their findings on, I would be more apt to believe you.

Oh please, don't do the 'not credible website cos it's alternative' thing. That's so tired. Data is data, no matter who posts it or where it's posted.

You obviously don't have a problem with Merck making billions of dollars from perverting the data, but get hung up on somebody making a few bucks showing a different and far more revealing spin.

The graphs on that site are mostly compiled from CDC data and other similar national bodies. Where else do you get national statistics from 1880?!?!

I didn't say the CDC site didn't contain credible data, I just asked you to point me to some of it that supports the 'vaccines protect us and eradicate diseases' theory. I can't find it amongst all the PR.

You doubt the CHOP info is fear mongering? They are using horror stories of diseases to get you to vaccinate. What do you call that?

Sorry bro', I don't think you really want to look at this from the other side. Do you have kids?

Can you make a specific case, or point me to a link that does, rather than just giving me these big sites to trawl through fruitlessly for hours on end. I mean, can it be that hard to find some real evidence to show. You believe the story so completely, you must have seen something to convince you so totally?

I'm doing quite a bit of work for you at this end, although it doesn't seem to be worthwhile, how about a bit of reciprocity?

Originally posted by Chyort
Here's another source from the American Academy of Pediatrics, which are not trying to sell anything. However, I may expect that you'll say they're a mouthpiece for the pharmacutical companies as well.
AAP

And where is the evidence on that page. It's just PR, telling us that vaccines are necessary, safe and effective. Where is the data to back it up. Well there isn't any, the data contradicts the message.

That's most certainly an F!

Does it really matter one bit wether the vaccinations are safe or not?!

Your being FORCED to have something injected into your children. Is that not fascist enough for you?

If they get away with this, they can force you to have anything put in your kids. Could be PCP for all we know.


Well... at least when the Nazis were about to drug you, they had the decency to show you the gun they were holding to your head.

Here's just one example of the lying by the medical establishment about vaccines. From your own link to the AAP...

Q: "Do vaccines even work? Most of the people who get these diseases have been vaccinated."

A: Yes. Vaccines work extremely well. Millions of children have been protected from serious illnesses such as polio, whooping cough, measles, tetanus, and diphtheria because parents have had their children immunized. Most childhood vaccines are 90% to 99% effective in preventing disease. They are even more effective in reducing disease severity. Occasionally a few children may not develop the desired protection after receiving a vaccine.

Do a little google search on Corpus Christi Measles - here, I'll do it for you:

An outbreak of measles occurred among adolescents in Corpus Christi, Texas, in the spring of 1985, even though vaccination requirements for school attendance had been thoroughly enforced. Serum samples from 1806 students at two secondary schools were obtained eight days after the onset of the first case. Only 4.1 percent of these students (74 of 1806) lacked detectable antibody to measles according to enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay, and more than 99 percent had records of vaccination with live measles vaccine. Stratified analysis showed that the number of doses of vaccine received was the most important predictor of antibody response. Ninety-five percent confidence intervals of seronegative rates were 0 to 3.3 percent for students who had received two prior doses of vaccine, as compared with 3.6 to 6.8 percent for students who had received only a single dose. After the survey, none of the 1732 seropositive students contracted measles. Fourteen of 74 seronegative students, all of whom had been vaccinated, contracted measles. In addition, three seronegative students seroconverted without experiencing any symptoms. We conclude that outbreaks of measles can occur in secondary schools, even when more than 99 percent of the students have been vaccinated and more than 95 percent are immune.

Vaccines DON'T work!

[edit on 22-11-2007 by RogerT]

reply to post by Catfish


Oh, I forgot about this on smallpox:

in England and Wales there was a continuing decline in the annual death rate from smallpox, with a reduction in mortality of roughly 300 per million to virtually 0, taking place in the 60 year period following the middle of the last century. This table further illustrates that the progressive rate of decline was severely disrupted--with a roughly 275 percent increase in mortality from the disease--occurring immediately after smallpox vaccination laws were enforced

www.whale.to...

Here's another one:

"It is pathetic and ludicrous to say we ever vanquished smallpox with vaccines, when only 10% of the population was ever vaccinated."

Glen Dettman A.M.M., BA, Ph.D., F.A.P.M.

(Fellow of the Institute of Science Technology (UK), Life Fellow of the Royal Society of Health (London), Life Fellow Royal Microscopical Society (UK), Fellow of the Australian College of Biomedical Scientists,
Fellow of the International Academy of Preventive Medicine, Authored and co-authored numerous Scientific Papers and Books and he was appointed Head of a Research Team in 1969 to investigate the claims of Dr Kalokerinos in relation to Immunization Hazards and Efficacy of Vitamin C. Like Dr K he was awarded the Australian Medal of Merit for "Outstanding Scientific Research." (1978)


Here's another one (not smallpox):

"The greatest threat of childhood diseases lies in the dangerous and ineffectual efforts made to prevent them through mass immunization.....There is no convincing scientific evidence that mass inoculations can be credited with eliminating any childhood disease."--

Dr Robert Mendelsohn, M.D.

(an instructor at Northwest University Medical College, Associtae Professor of Pediatrics and Community Health and Preventive Medicine at the University of Illinois College of Medicine, President of the National Health Federation, National Director of Project Head Starts Medical Consultation Service, Chairman of the Medical Licensing Comittee of the State of Illinois)

Originally posted by RogerT


Oh please, don't do the 'not credible website cos it's alternative' thing. That's so tired. Data is data, no matter who posts it or where it's posted.

I didn't say I don't think it's credible because it is an "alternative" website. It's not credible because I have no idea where it gets its information from. Again, would you use this on a college paper?

You obviously don't have a problem with Merck making billions of dollars from perverting the data, but get hung up on somebody making a few bucks showing a different and far more revealing spin.

I have no idea about this, maybe you could point me in the right direction. Although I will say this: If the pharmacutical companies want to make billions, why have vaccinations at all? Why not just sell the more expensive medicine after you get sick?

The graphs on that site are mostly compiled from CDC data and other similar national bodies. Where else do you get national statistics from 1880?!?!

I don't see where they used CDC as a source.

I didn't say the CDC site didn't contain credible data, I just asked you to point me to some of it that supports the 'vaccines protect us and eradicate diseases' theory. I can't find it amongst all the PR.

You doubt the CHOP info is fear mongering? They are using horror stories of diseases to get you to vaccinate. What do you call that?

Sorry bro', I don't think you really want to look at this from the other side. Do you have kids?

I call it being realistic. These diseases kill people. I could say I've been to places like South America or the Middle East where I've seen what happens to people when they haven't been vaccinated. It doesn't really matter though. No, I don't have kids, why that matters I don't know, but I do volunteer at a children's hospital. I'm glad they have recieved their vaccinations.

Can you make a specific case, or point me to a link that does, rather than just giving me these big sites to trawl through fruitlessly for hours on end. I mean, can it be that hard to find some real evidence to show. You believe the story so completely, you must have seen something to convince you so totally?
I'm doing quite a bit of work for you at this end, although it doesn't seem to be worthwhile, how about a bit of reciprocity?

Hehe, I'm sure finding that one website would entail quite a bit of work. Here's part of an article detailing the sucess of the small pox vaccine. Near the bottom is probably the information you are looking for:
Article

Here's one about measles:
Measles

Here's another one about a study of the effects of mercury and other additives in vaccines:
Study

I know this might be surprising, but some good information about vaccinations is not available on the internet. I would recommend visiting a college library and going to the medical section if you want some more information.

I believe the big thing people are missing here is the parents' RIGHTS to choose for themselves what is best for their children.

In this case (and others) these rights have been COMPLETELY stripped away by the local government.

Even if these vaccinations are COMPLETELY harmless, shouldn't a parent still have the unalienable right to refuse giving their kids the shot?

As far as the shot goes, why would parents who HAVE immunized their children care that non-immunized children are going to school with their kids? The immunized children SHOULD be safe right? After all, isn't that the purpose of the vaccines?

This whole situation is on par with the school wanting to pass out condoms to 10 year olds. It is the complete disregard of what parents feel is best for THEIR child.

One's own desire to raise one's children as THEY SEE FIT is a VERY VERY important right. Yet, it's pretty quickly being stripped away. Does that not scare the hell out of anyone but me?



Jasn

Exercise is also good for you...

should we be setting up exercise camps and arresting anyone who doesn't want to run on a treadmill for 3 hours a day?

OR better yet, lets arrest anyone who is not getting their daily recommended dose of bread, milk, fruit and vegetables!

Come on RogerT, we DON'T CARE if it's proven safe... it's been FORCED on the public.
This is FASCISM!

[edit on 22-11-2007 by johnsky]

reply to post by RogerT


Wow, a ton of posts while I was making my post. I didn't see those other two posts you made so I'll address them quick:

The measles outbreak in Texas? I don't know where you got that information, but it sounds like the outbreak came from poor areas that had not been vaccinated (source).

The other post you made, all you did was give me info from another site that is not credible. Whale.to? Are you serious? Have you read their mission statement? C'mon bro, I give you good sources and this is what I get in return?

Then you add some quotes but don't put where you got them from. Are you just taking out little bits and pieces to forward your argument? Why not post the source?

It seems to me that this is a bit too drastic for a meer vaccine! im thinking that either the government are hiding something impending like an epidemic or maybe there is something more sinister at hand.

Either way i dont like this one bit and im from england! how long before they start doing this in other states and countries.

I think certain governments a really taking the biscuit with their people and its high time that something is going to kick off and a lot of people are gonna get hurt and anarchy erupts :S

Was life so much simpler when scalliwags and carpet baggers were treated to a nice neck tie party or tar and feathers for trampling on people?

Vigilante justice you say?

I wonder if that moniker had anything to do with the idea "vigilance is the price for freedom?" Well that happened in the old days, when infiltrated governments did nothing to safeguard the rights of the people. The bad actors were rooted out after many pages of analysis from what was then an independent press not the monopoly corporate so called press of today.
Today's press of course has been bought off, so carpet baggers nearly get a blessing from it.

We read about these things in a negative light, when the history of it was not "mob rule," or "hysteria," but the logical conclusion of a far more literate people than exist today. The cause of history is not "right versus left," but "freedom against tyranny."

What is the solution in today's modern world? It might be different and far more creative, but the persistence in the battle for freedom from government oppression must continue.

well, vaccination will only push viruses to adapt. From viruses to super-viruses .We will end up like the Anti-Virus computer software? will we need to update our vaccination "database" at least once a week? in this game we have one looser only.
another thing going in my mind- is US planning something? why this rush for vaccination at all costs ? any US plans for the rest of the un-vaccinated world?

Originally posted by Areal51
Compare, contrast, and consider:

Prince Georges County aka America's wealthiest Black county.

Could gunpoint vaccinations ever happen in Greenwich, Connecticut, the top earning city in America?

This is a rhetorical question and is NOT meant to create a debate about either race, wealth and politics. Rather, I would like to know that given what we know about race, wealth and politics in America, what opinions do folks hold regarding the question posed above. Thanks for your consideration.

Thanks to pavil for providing the link to the Prince Georges County article.

I too would like to know what race were most of the kids. Its sad that we have to ask this question but if they picked the "right" kids this story will be forgot in week or so.

Originally posted by sty
well, vaccination will only push viruses to adapt. From viruses to super-viruses .We will end up like the Anti-Virus computer software? will we need to update our vaccination "database" at least once a week? in this game we have one looser only.
another thing going in my mind- is US planning something? why this rush for vaccination at all costs ? any US plans for the rest of the un-vaccinated world?

Did you just make this up? I've never heard of this before.

Un-vaccinated world? Well, I guess that the U.S., World Health Organization, and other organizations sending doctors, nurses and voluteers out to vaccinate third world countries never happened.

The amount misinformation, bad information and ignorance of this thread is amazing.

ALL POLITICIANS MUST DIE!!!!!!

If this starts to happen in Memphis, then people will riot!

I heard of the local radio and from people from work that on tv they are trying to get parents to go to the court house to get shots for flu

Well I gotta say this I don't have kids if I did I would not let them have one.

I noticed that flu shot season comes around people get them and get sick.
I never got one and never got sick. I don't trust ANY shot.

People at work also tell me that this year is also really bad for sickness
One persons child came home with "pink eye" 6 times already

yet I'm not sure if its cause of the shots or dirty people but wow