Jehovahs Witness, cult or religion?

Originally posted by makeitso

I have to disagree with most of the above. For one thing, I can't help but notice how you gloss over 1975 Deadpan. Doesn't seem like they learned their lesson very well after 1928 like you indicate, does it? You should have seen the faces at the 1975 assembly when it was announced a mistake had been made (again). It was a sad thing to watch.

Thank you for your imput! Yes, I totally forgot about 1975. They indeed _hoped_ that reaching the milestone of 6000 years from the creation of Adam would bring the last millenial reign. Fair assumption (probably would have been excited myself, too.) Only thing that was overlooked was that you could not know when the sixth creation day ended, because Eve's birthday isn't given. Some just got ahead of themselves and had to admit - '1975 was not in the bible, hold your horses'

Although I don't consider it a cult, it does have some cult like aspects. For example: Wives will be encouraged to leave their unbelieving husbands. If you smoke, drink to excess, give blood, celebrate xmas, or break any of their other religious principals they will be strongly discouraged from associating with you.

On the contrary wives are encouraged to stay faithful to their marriage vows!
1.Peter 3: In like manner, YOU wives, be in subjection to YOUR own husbands, in order that, if any are not obedient to the word, they may be won without a word through the conduct of [their] wives

Drinking is a terrible problem for some. Fellowship tries to help alcholics whenever possible, but if the problem continues for too long, the individual has to be disfellowshipped. All of the cases when someone sins against the laws and wishes of God for a prolonged period, they are first given help but unfortunately must be eventually disfellowshipped for the purity of God's people. Not if the person repents and tries to change.

Obviously keeping pagan holidays is shunned, this is not uncommon in Christianity. Xmas (or any other in that matter) isn't really a Christian holiday.

If you find another way, let me know. I have multiple family members I can speak with a little, and see sometimes, but hang out with on a regular basis? Never gonna happen. This is going on more that 20 years.

I'm sorry that you can't spend time with your family members. It is not forbidden to spend time with non-Christians, but every witness understands that spending time with people who have totally different goals in life will eventually, slowly distance you from the Bible way of life. This is typical psychological behavior - person is molded by the company s/he keeps. We just think that pleasing God is more important than your own family. We still love them, of course, but can't do what they would want. I spend time now and then with my parents who are not believers and nobody is 'threatening' me with anything.

To the suicide rate thing, I'm not aware of the facts in this matter, but I can understand the reasons. People who 'drop out' from the presence of other Christians, start to reason on their own and sometimes gradually turn against their fellow Christians. When someone is then disfellowshipped for a obvious reason, many see the mistake they did, but are too shamed to return. Usually their lives become meaningless and some take their lives because they understand that the world has nothing to offer them in return.

Well let's see,

Lately they appear to be a cult of pedophiles !!!!! Therefore they must be Republicans by nature.

LongGone

news.google.com...:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=N&tab=wn

[edit on 23-11-2007 by longgone]

Originally posted by Deadpan

Only thing that was overlooked was that you could not know when the sixth creation day ended, because Eve's birthday isn't given.

I beg to differ. The thing that was overlooked was the word of god stating that no man can know when this will happen. Clearly they ignore their own bibles advice.

On the contrary wives are encouraged to stay faithful to their marriage vows!

Nope, thats only on the surface. The undercurrent is very different. Just like glossing over 1975, you've proven that your attempting PR, not expressing reality. After you've had 40 + years of experience with these people come talk to me.

Drinking is a terrible problem for some. Fellowship tries to help alcholics whenever possible,

Again with the PR? The opposite is what really happens. If after the elders bitch at you a couple of times "in council" if you don't quit drinking on your own, your outta there. They have never extended a helping hand to the extent that the bible requires. Just the opposite of Jesus advise to go help the one lost sheep.

every witness understands that spending time with people who have totally different goals in life will eventually, slowly distance you from the Bible way of life. We just think that pleasing God is more important than your own family.

Unlike the bibles advise to go help the stray sheep.

OP take note of this quote. They are quite serious about it. Family interaction is no longer important and associating with them is discouraged unless they are members. I wasn't kidding. If I recall Jim Jones espoused that same principle. Thus the cult like aspect I mentioned.

To the suicide rate thing, I'm not aware of the facts in this matter, but I can understand the reasons. People who 'drop out' from the presence of other Christians, start to reason on their own and sometimes gradually turn against their fellow Christians. When someone is then disfellowshipped for a obvious reason, many see the mistake they did, but are too shamed to return. Usually their lives become meaningless and some take their lives because they understand that the world has nothing to offer them in return.

Actually they find that they've built their life around a group of people who promise to always be there to help them. Then reality sets in and they see that it was a false promise. They will not be helped. Not even a little. They spent years disassociating themselves from everyone and everything they ever knew so they could be with these people who hold out false hope, only to find out that these people aren't really friends. They don't even follow their own bibles principles. They are left with nothing. No hope, no religion, no friends, no family. They are psychologically devastated to realize its all been a facade. Many can't handle that, nor do they know how to pick up and move on with their life without the support system they previously thought was trustworthy.

Now that the PR and negativity is out of the way, one poster did have good advise. Don't take the internets word for it. Go talk to him. He is human and makes mistakes. But don't hold false hope that everything will be wonderful after you talk with him. After nine years of indoctrination a real relationship with him will be difficult.

On the bright side, most of them are fairly good people, with few bad habits. Its doubtful that he will become a criminal while worshipping with them. All that Michael Jackson stuff is blown way out of proportion judging from my lifelong experience.

Whether or not the JW's are a cult or not is really a mute point because Man-made religions will not save you. There is a total of two things by which you can obtain eternal life: 1) An acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and 2) A good heart condition.

For more information on this subject and to obtain TRUTH visit: The Kingdom Message

and One Truth

I am here tonight with much sadness.. My earlier post about "Grandma"..and her JW son...Today would have been the 9th day Grandma endured without food or water, since her feeding tube was removed..If you dont understand, please read my earlier post..
After spending 24 hrs non stop since wed. with her, only coming home long enough to feed the dogs..we left her side this morning at 6am, after doing 3-4 days of 24 hr. vidual by her side, just long enough to take care of home things..we got a call that it was "time"..we went to leave, and before we walked out the door the phone rang, and Grandma had passed away... Long story short..we left and went there to see grandma's body off to the funeral home.. Her loving JW son and his wife were no where around.. We called them when she passed but they said there was no sence in going..yet they were staying 4 blocks away from the nursing home..All other family memebers live in a different town and they all came to be there when her body was transported..but not the son who lived the closest...I have only one thing to say after searching the net about information about JW..Do your own homework ppl..All one nneds to do is research "ex Jehovah witness" sites and videos... and you will soon learn what we as a family have lived thru..and we're not even JW..It only takes one... As for the person who replied somewhere here that they are Christians...Forgive me but you are wrong..they are not. They will not bow thier heads in prayer, they will not enter a church, and as far as a cross goes...you better forget it..they are NOT christians. I will forever remember this time in our lives, of trying to save grandma, not by the hand of God, but save her from her own son's "cult" beliefs...DONT EVER underestimate the power and determination of a JW..cause I can garentee they will win.. This is my last post on this subject ..And I am sorry for all the errors i typing but I am exausted...

reply to post by MissysWorld


Sorry for your loss.

Just to add a note about the original post. The British Police and HM Government do not view Jehovahs Witnesses as a cult but a Religion (Christian).

Apparently MI5 did a check on UK religions/Cults and they (JWs) were considered a very peaceful religion.

Australian Girl

i was born into the faith, but even as a child i rejected it, it didn't make sense. at the age of 7 i stood up in the kingdom hall and asked the question: if in noahs flood only noah and his family survived, where didi all the different people come from, the black people, the asian people, the white people, why arent we all one race? there was silence.

i left when i was thirteen. they always forbade spiritism and occult, i slowly bit into the forbidden fruit, my life made more sense, i was happier, i was actually enjoying my life, i became more independent as my whole family are all JW's, when i was in the JW's i felt i was filled with empty happiness, i've never had a birthday party, been trick or treating or recieved a christmas present due to their abstinence. their way of life will screw with your head, i do have sympathy for michael jackson, i understand why he acts the way he does, his childhood was never given to him.

but i digress.

i was never disfellowshipped, i left of my own accord. i know i am not alone in this experience because one of my old high school teachers had almost the same experience in her childhood, and now she is very new-age.

also, she told me of mario dimaggio and his experiences
www.dimaggio.org...'s%20Witnesses.htm

edit: ran out of time at college computer, came back to finish it

[edit on 26-11-2007 by sheyrshad]

I also grew up JW. I don't practice it on my own because I don't believe in a lot of what conventional Christianity teaches in general. I would like to say that some of these posts are pretty ludicrous and I'm glad some JW members stepped in to correct a few things. I have no ill-feelings towards that faith or its people. I've been to other churches and I would say that all the negative comments posted about JW could also be said about those others as well. It's mostly uneducated stereotypical crap. I will say that as a general rule JW are the most caring, kind, and pleasant people you will ever meet.

Our family went through some rough times when I was younger, and our congregation never once hesitated to help - even when we didn't ask for it. One day a truck full of lumber, gutters, and paint cans showed up in our driveway. The man that got out was from our congregation and as other cars were pulling in, he said something to the effect of "We know you guys are having some rough times (financially) and we decided to help you out by replacing your gutters and painting your house." The gutters were old wood - clogged and rotting - almost falling off the eves. Within a day they had fixed up our house. I have a lot of fond memories like this.

Overall I came out a better person from having that in my life - the fear of god does tip you off the fence in the right direction in some situations. =) In my teenage years I started to think analytically about what I believed in and decided that almost nothing in the bible made sense to me (and yes it's more or less identical to any other bible out there.) I never felt comfortable telling other people that my religion was better than theirs. Witnessing is encouraged - it's even part of the name. =) but other religions do the same to spread themselves.

While I no longer practice it and pretty much dismiss it as a viable belief system *for me*, I have a mountain of respect for the religion and its people. I just have my own relationship with G-d now and I don't feel like I'm being punished at all for it. I'm actually in a very good place in my life right now. I still thank G-d for it, but I also throw in thanks to "whoever else" might have helped along the way. I think there's more influence than just him. =)

Don't put something down unless you have educated reasons for doing so. Looking up "quick facts" in google will probably lead you to lists made by people with the same attitude you have. - just writing down everything they "heard".

[edit for spelling corrections]

[edit on 26-11-2007 by an0maly33]

I have had many business dealing with JW over the years. I normally don't care about or even consider religion a factor with a person.

I will say this about people of the JW faith. I find them very honest, trustworthy, and having a firm belief in their religion. It is a shame that not all religions have these qualities.

I would consider them to be a sect of Christianity, defiantly not a cult.

reply to post by an0maly33


Wow....sounds exactly like my life. As I grew older and began to question some of their beliefs, the answers were either very hypocritical, or they simply swerved and failed to answer the question.

My mother and her entire side of the family are JW and basically, I really don't exist in the family. At times it saddens me, but as the poster I'm quoting/replying to pointed out, I've found my own peace with our creator and still live by the "values" instilled in me as a youth growing up JW. For those things, I am grateful.

As always, there are two side to every story, but I've bared witness to way too many bouts of hypocrisy and contradiction within their system for me to believe they are the "true" religion.

[edit on 11/26/07 by surfinguru]

[edit on 11/26/07 by surfinguru]

so you're shunned for not being JW. i had it the other way (at least at first). the rest of my family is catholic. i have a memory of a birthday cake being hurled down a stairway because we told someone we didn't celebrate birthdays. then some utterances about not being a part of the family. it got better pretty quick. some family members were quite a bit less difficult even if they felt the same way at first.

this is why i loathe religion in general. because of conflicts in organized religion, my earliest memory of this family member is the one i mentioned above. pretty sad that it isn't something more pleasant. i've already decided to raise my boy as somewhat of an agnostic. believe in something higher - if he finds something that works for him, go for it. otherwise, i'm not pushing him into anything.

jw's are nothing more than a multi million dollar publishing company with millions in reserves through various real estate deals. what deadpan is doing is called "theocratic warfare" where jw's are taught to downplay or outright lie about beliefs. this keeps them in the dark about reality of the situation, they are brow-beat to only study the societies publications as opposed to external sources the bible and jesus are gradually being phased out to use only socirty written material. they are taught to obey "elders" no matter what even if they are percieved to be or in fact wrong, the reasoning being they should wait on jehovah to find out the wrongdoings and take care of the elders. less cult more free labor based on faith. how do i know? i was born into the religion and my father was and elder for 23 years.

I was always taught, in Catholic school, that the Mormons AND Jehovah's Witnesses were cults. They really aren't. Only Fundamentalists seem to view them as a cult; they really don't fit the mold of a common cult.

www.religioustolerance.org...

This information was pulled from a web site that explains it best

""Cult" typically refers to a cohesive social group devoted to beliefs or practices that the surrounding population considers to be outside the mainstream.

A group's cult status begins as rumors spread of its novel belief system, its great devotions, its idiosyncratic practices, its perceived harmful or beneficial effects on members or its perceived opposition to the interests of mainstream cultures and governments. Persistent rumors may follow.

The issue of perception, whether notably positive or negative, is the main cause of variation in the use of "cult" as a descriptive term."

So it is the PERCEPTION of each person that causes them to call a set of religious beliefs a cult or not.

So for me, just like I don't consider the Hudderites or the Amish to be cults, neither are the JW's. But if your segregated to one lone compound in this entire world you most likely are a cult.

In fact some groups that aren't considered cults exist only in certain geographic area's of the world in smaller numbers, but the JW's are in over 200 countries in various numbers combining to around 7 million.

They may be strange but they don't fit my perception of a cult.


[edit on 26-8-2008 by Blue_Jay33]

[edit on 26-8-2008 by Blue_Jay33]

There are a lot of different definitions of cults.

Some religions, such as the JW, will let you leave if you want to, though they will do what is called 'shunning', which basically means treating you like you don't exist. While that isn't particularly nice, it still leaves the JW (or ex-JW) the freedom of choice. I guess that's what defines cult vs religion for me, is that freedom of action.

Many religions, including JWs, Catholics, Mormons, and others have various penalties they might impose on someone, like denying communion/sacrament, and they will want you to behave a certain way, but they will not FORCE you to behave in that manner. They might not want to have anything to do with you socially if you don't act like them, but they won't MAKE you act like them.

Originally posted by longgone
Well let's see,

Lately they appear to be a cult of pedophiles !!!!! Therefore they must be Republicans by nature.

LongGone

news.google.com...:en-US

fficial&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=N&tab=wn

[edit on 23-11-2007 by longgone]

all i see was articles on conventions and persecution

Originally posted by MissysWorld
I have only one thing to say after searching the net about information about JW..Do your own homework ppl..All one nneds to do is research "ex Jehovah witness" sites and videos...

has anyone else noticed that is what the argument against JW's boils down to.

its never about doctrine what the bible actually says, its always about testimony from people bitter to the faith.

even "shunning" (which i believe disfellowshipping is the word they use) has biblical backing. its just that people who are shunned dont like it.

Originally posted by Klemperer
I was always taught, in Catholic school, that the Mormons AND Jehovah's Witnesses were cults. They really aren't. Only Fundamentalists seem to view them as a cult; they really don't fit the mold of a common cult.

When I was growing up there was the book, The Four Great Cults.
They included the Seventh Day Adventists and Christian Scientist.
Being a SDA made the book kind of required reading, to see what sort of propaganda was being used against us.
One of the criteria this book used for a cult status was that you most likely would have, at some point in your life, a member of one of these groups approach you with some of their literature.
I used to do some of that with my father, after church, to hand out magazines, door to door.
We also went out for two weeks every year and ask for donations for disaster relief that our church did.
I think it is a little sad if people think they are normal because they do not do what Jesus commanded his followers to do, to spread the Gospel.

Originally posted by trig_grl
ive been told that the JW's are actually cosidered a cult and not a recognized religion. does anyone have any information or good link's on this subject?

im interested in finding out about this as my brother has been involved in this "group" for about 9 yrs now and does not seem to be himself anymore. he has distance himself from our family and has become almost like a robot who non of us any longer know.

ive been trying to figure out a way to get through to him as i see him getting worse as the days pass. any info or ideas on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Yes, they are a cult.

Here is a good link that tells you the aspects of scripture they go against:

www.biblebelievers.com...

Originally posted by never_tell
i think they'd be considered a "sect" of christianity....

Maybe by a non-CHristian they'd be considered a sect. Those same people probably consider Roman Catholics "Christian" too.

Neither are, Jehovah's Witnesses are JWs, Catholics practice Catholicism.