Healthy eating only for the rich?

Originally posted by Flyer

Originally posted by Loki

This is probably one of the more ignorant things I've read today. While McDonalds does not help the matter in the slightest, not all fat people are lazy, and not all lazy people are fat. Some have Thyroid issues. Others simply can't seem to keep the weight off, no matter what.

The bottom line is you dont put on weight if you dont eat the calories and fat people have only themselves to blame, I blamed myself for putting on weight and corrected it.

Well congratulations to you for your weight loss, but it's much more difficult than that for a lot of people, in fact I was on an 800 calorie/day diet for about 4 months and GAINED weight. And it's not just laziness.

Ethan Sims of the University of Vermont took a bunch of naturally slender people and had them eat up to 10,000 calories a day, until they became obese. They had no trouble losing the weight and keeping it off. In a later study, Hirsch and Liebel examined children who'd been adopted and found that their adult propensity for obesity -- or thinness -- closely tracked their biological parents. If their biological parents were obese, it didn't matter if the kids grew up with skinny parents who taught them healthy eating patterns; they most often wound up obese too.

Source

Here is some more info that should be read.

According to Kersting, weight problems were the result. In Germany today, some 6 percent of all children and teenagers are overweight. In low-income families, it was more than double this figure, she said.

Source

And here is a great PDF to read and think about.

Poverty and Obesity in America



[edit on 11-20-2007 by Loki]

An hour on an exercise bike is 500 calories, you would have lost weight doing that unless you were in stasis for the other 23 hours a day. I find it hard to believe anyone can put on weight easting 800 cal/day.

I dont deny that people are built differently but the fact is you cannot put on weight unless you eat the calories and dont burn them off.

Fat people eat more and eat more calories than slim people.

As for the poor kids being more likely to be fat, thats probably got more to do with the lack of care from the parents rather than the inability to afford good food.

Small things like changing from white to wholemeal bread costs nothing, neither does going to semi skimmed or skimmed milk or making a sandwich instead of having a mcdonalds or cutting out all chocolate and sweets.

Originally posted by Flyer
An hour on an exercise bike is 500 calories, you would have lost weight doing that unless you were in stasis for the other 23 hours a day. I find it hard to believe anyone can put on weight easting 800 cal/day.

Well, believe it. I was working 6 days/week as well, on my feet sort of work, for an average of 8 hours daily. I don't know if I burned those 800 calories off, but I sure wasn't in any condition or mood to exercise when I got off work.

Also, the articles I posted above will give you the science-y side that I'm not so great at presenting. There's also an Essay which addresses the issue of poverty, and it's role in obesity.

[edit on 11-20-2007 by Loki]

Nice OP Enrikez

Just today there was an article in The Age newspaper here in Oz regarding the affordability of fresh foods and how the prices for these foods are going to increase in a major way for various reasons...

article


It sure does make you wonder how much control the elite have over staple food prices in the western world...I mean, sure drought is a major factor in Australia...

But what of other nations ?

Why are the portions of processed or semi-processed food we buy seem to be downside at the same or greater cost ?

Lets face it, the way food supply chains are setup in tech savvy countries, the wrong kind of situation could see a lot of us starving after a couple weeks..

Scary stuff indeed...

Peace

reply to post by Loki


Counting calories is not the way to lose weight effectively. Any chemicals that you consume are going to prevent you from losing weight. That's why most of the so-called "healthy" microwave meals are not really healthy. Most all of the processed foods contain chemicals and a lot of them are hidden (not listed on the label). Words like "spices", "flavoring", "yeast extract", "tortula yeast", "autolyzed yeast", "soy protein", "hydrolyzed vegetable protein" (and many more) are really just misleading names for MSG.

Try to eat as much unprocessed organic food as possible and increase your percentage of raw foods because cooking destroys most of the nutrients that your body needs. I recently changed my diet to about 75% raw and I am now losing weight.

As to the cost... my grocery bill went up considerably when I went organic about 6 months ago. But I am 100% organic meaning I pay more for things like chemical-free laundry detergent, dish detergent, household cleaners, etc.

Items like organic canned beans are double the price of non-organic. I also purchase organic salad dressing and prepared soups when I could make my own for less if I took the time (but I'm not much of a cook).

I grew up with the idea that you're supposed to spend as little as possible on food but now I've discovered that my health was suffering from that mindset so now I budget more for groceries and less for other less important things. I'm fortunate enough to have a decent salary that I can afford to spend the extra to maintain a healthy diet, but so many people are not and that bothers me.

I'm so glad I made the decision years ago not to have children. I can only imagine how much money I would be spending to keep kids healthy as well.

Originally posted by Loki

Originally posted by Flyer
No, its only the lazy people who are fat.

You can make healthy meals for very little if you put a little time and effort into it but people would just rather have their suspersize McDonalds.

Even if they could only afford bad quality food, theres no excuse for eating the kind of portions these people would have to eat to get them that far overweight.

This is probably one of the more ignorant things I've read today. While McDonalds does not help the matter in the slightest, not all fat people are lazy, and not all lazy people are fat. Some have Thyroid issues. Others simply can't seem to keep the weight off, no matter what.



You do, however have one point, and that is that portions in America, are, in a word, redonkulous.

Genetics is more to blame for obesity than laziness, though. Bad genes and a slightly poor diet is an instant recipe for obesity.

The laziest man I know weighs 120 lbs and eats junk at least twice a day, and rarely if ever works out.



[edit on 11-20-2007 by Loki]

That is ridiculous. Human genes have not changed in the past centurey, but now 2/3 of US and British are obese! It's the crappy food in large quantities! And no exercise!


[edit on 20-11-2007 by j_kalin]

Originally posted by annestacey
Try to eat as much unprocessed organic food as possible and increase your percentage of raw foods because cooking destroys most of the nutrients that your body needs. I recently changed my diet to about 75% raw and I am now losing weight.

Probably because your not consuming enough nutrients. Cooking actually breaks down the plant cellular structure, enabling easier digestion.

Boiling veg will bleach out nutrients, but anyone who can cook knows not to boil veg! But cooking vegetables enables your body to obtain much higher yield of nutrients than eating it raw.

Originally posted by annestacey
I'm so glad I made the decision years ago not to have children. I can only imagine how much money I would be spending to keep kids healthy as well.

I have two feed too and you don't have to spend a fortune to buy good food. It honestly costs more to eat fast food than to prepare fresh food.

I watched a programme last week where a family had take away EVERY meal of the day, EVERY day of the week. Even the 2 year old had to eat take away. It cost them in the region of £2000/month. I pay out 1/10th of that on fresh food and feed my family well.

I wonder if this is part of an organized plot to kill off the poor and stupid.

Think about it, if you are educated and well-off you will eventually discover that organic food is the only safe thing to eat. If you have the money, you will obtain it and live healthier and reproduce. You will transmit this lifestyle to your rich/educated kids. If you don't you will get diabetes, cancer, cardiovascular disease and infertility and have fewer kids; the one's you do have will be as sick or sicker than you and have even less success in breeding. Perhaps this is the elite's answer to the problem of overpopulation? Get the poor hooked on toxic foods and their fertility declines. If you look at fertility rates around the world, they are lowest in areas that eat a lot of processed, cheap foods(western europe, japan, USA) and highest where they basically eat organic(mexico, brazil, africa, rural asia). The sperm counts of men in the industrialized world have been falling on average for the past 50 years, correlating well with the decline in fertility. It is not so much that people don't want kids, but rather that they can't have them as easily when they are trying to have them that is driving the depopulation of the first world. So there is hope to depopulate the earth...just open more McDonald's in the third world...

Well, I don't believe it is a conspiracy per se, but it is very unfortunate.

I see the crux of the problem as this; fast food restaurants are HUGE, therefore they can produce and sell food at cheaper prices. Most fast food companies are all over the world. They have buying power because they buy in such large quantities, they can buy their supplies at a much cheaper prices, therefore being able to sell it at a low price.

Produce, organic product and healthfood, firstly come from smaller operations. Even the largest farm can't rival a company selling mass quantities of stuff for the huge fast food chains. Then (in general) they are bought and sold by smaller operations. They have to make a profit, so they mark it higher.

If we had ginormous organic/vegan fast food chains and the demand for produce and organic products was super high, I would have to guess that as a result there would be super farms and the price in stores and restuarants for consumers would come down.

It is a shame and it is sad, but I think it really has to do with supply and demand. 90% of the people would rather have a juicy hamburger than a salad. When and if the demand shifts, there will be more competitors and the price will come down.

This is also not to mention the hit that farming operations take when the weather is dire (drought, flood, freezes, etc.). They have to recoop their loss by marking up their prices and that too effects the consumers ultimate buying price.

Originally posted by Loki
Ever tried to shop for two people on fifty bucks for two weeks? Things begin to look grim very quickly.

yes i have. actually, its cheaper to eat right. always, even compared to ramen. ramen is what... noodles, water and seasoning. You can get a pack of noodles or rice without seasoning even cheaper, and add your own flavors. Ramen is horrible for you as well,although I do enjoy the oriental and roast chicken flavors...

again, this is really where the lazy factor can come in. if you are too lazy to clean, prepare and cook your own food... then yes, fast foot is cheaper and easier. I think there is somewhat of a correlation between people that can't bother to make their own meals, and people that can't bother to exercise or care about their health.

$50 for two weeks is a stretch, but I have done it - and could do it again. Lots of rice, noodles, beans, water, etc. Always go for store brands, use coupons and look for deals.

Vegetable gardens anyone?

Most folks have room to put one in and a small one will supply a lot of vegetables for you and the excess can go to neighbors and co-workers.

It works well, one of my neighbors loved the tomatoes I grew and I'd always leave few on the brick wall for them.
In turn, they'd give me a jar of freshly made Salsa.

I've seen community plots behind some apartment buildings that worked out well.

One nice thing about gardens is they are a great stress reliever if your job is stressful - which they all are from time to time.

15-20 minutes a day will keep the garden squared away and the weeds down.

You're not as busy as you think you are and most times not all that tired.
I held down a job at the power company, build hot rods, did a little machine work for some, played golf with dad now and then, learned to fly and found time to put in, maintain and enjoy a veggie garden.
I didn't miss much TV either.

And if you've never tasted a vine-ripe tomato right out of the garden, you've missed out on one of life's little pleasures.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I haven't put in a garden at my new house yet, but after paying $5. for five tomatoes yesterday, I can see that a garden will pay for itself in a short time.

This whole thing is a load of crap. It's an effort to take responsibility off of fat stupid people and put it on someone else, in the meantime it's an excellent way to consolidate more power to the Fedgov through more regulation.
On January 1st, 2006 I wieghed in at a whopping 272. I am 5' 11" and have been slim all my life till 2005. I blimped out due to my poor eating habits. In an effort to prove a point to my GF at the time, from 01/01/06 to 05/01/06 I lost 39 lbs eating only at McDonalds and Chik-fil-a. See, my GF at the time was a flaming Welfare state type who was convinced that fast food made poor people fat, I disagreed. Chik-fil-a for breakfast, McDonalds for lunch and dinner every day for 5 months and I lost 39 lbs. Just by choosing the right food from the fast food menus! No fried chicken, no mayo, no fries, etc.I then lost an additional 26 lbs just by returning to a normal diet eating only 2000 calories a day and exercising 3 times a week. I start everyday with a bowl of GENERIC cheerios and soy milk. Costs lees than name brand cheerios and regular milk by $2 a week.

People are fat by choice. Anyone who says differnet is probably fat and unable to control themselves.


[edit on 20-11-2007 by Tinhatman]

reply to post by Desert Dawg

Desert dawg,
You are so right, we grow stuff at home too, but when I was a kid my parents grew just about everything with help from my Grandfather at weekends.
There is an old Chinese Proverb,
If a man would be happy for a day, he should get drunk,
If a man would be happy for a week, he should get married,
But it a man would be happy for the rest of his life, he should get himself a garden.
Regards,
Horsegiver.

reply to post by Loki

I have found a solution it is a health drink called Zija derived from the organically grown Moringa tree and this good tasting healthy drink contains over 90 different verifiable nutrients with only 19 calories. When I was researching for good nutrition I found nothing in the world comes even close to this patend pending Zija drink derived from the Moringa oleifera tree.

Quote: "It's an extraordinary plant. It's a plant that has all the nurients that could be found in a perfect food." - Monica Marcu, Pharm.D., Ph.D.

If you compare Zija Gram for Gram Moringa leaves contain:
4 times the Calcium of Milk
4 times the vitamin A of carrots
2 times the protein of Yogurt
3 times the Potassium of Bananas
7 times the Vitamin C of oranges.

Here are some websites and you can check it out for yourself.
www.drinklifein.com
www.myzija.com/lifetree
www.pubmed.com -make sure you type in Moringa tree for search term for the pubmed sight. Rik Riley



[edit on 20-11-2007 by rikriley]

Oh please,
A persons personal health is a persons own resposibility. For most of us in the first world what you out in your mouth is a personal choice. Nobody forces somebody to plow big macs into their face or or sit on their duff watching football, or football, on the tele. Nobody forces anybody to sit infront of thier ps3/xbox sucking down mtn dew and redvines.
As the first world, has developed and become more effecient at providing the basic necesities of life, life has gotten very much easier for everyone.
How many people in Europe, North America and Oceana still do hard physical labor as a means of support. All the really hard work is done by machine or by cheap imported hand labor,people who are at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder, and have very low rates of obesity.
I live in a county that is at the top of us counties in families living below the poverty level. And the very poorest people living here are recent imigrants from latin america and southeast asia. The asian in general will have family gardens that supply a good portion of the vetgetable they consume. They will get several families together to lease or rent a piece of property, many times a vacant lot or an abandoned farm parcle near town, what they dont eat the will sell at the farmers markets. They fish and hunt to supply meat for the family. The central american imigrants will do very much the same thing.
It is a hard way to live, and after a couple of generations you start to fat little hispanic and asian kids running around, because they have now found some measure of success in our society and food becomes a luxury and not a necessity.

Got to get back to work, keeping food and fiber flowing to all of you out there, and I'll get back to my rant later.

also, bare in mind, that the vegetables you buy are full of pesticides, so soak them in water with a little salt in it, that will suck the pesticides out

use only olive oil, hard pressed, never heat it too much.

meat is of mostly questionable quality, proceed with caution

avoid frozen food or canned food as much as possible, get tuna in glass jar

this comes from someone that knows, and also says in 10 years 1 in 3 of us will have some form of cancer

Originally posted by Flyer
No, its only the lazy people who are fat.

You can make healthy meals for very little if you put a little time and effort into it but people would just rather have their suspersize McDonalds.

Even if they could only afford bad quality food, theres no excuse for eating the kind of portions these people would have to eat to get them that far overweight.

Very well said. Making healthy meals takes time and less money than buying processed foods.

My family of 5 eats very well for $40 to $100 a week, because I go to local farm markets to buy in quantity. Most people don't take the time to prepare good food for themselves and their children, it's mainly fast food and processed foods, both cost a minimum of 10 times that of health non-processed foods.

[edit on 20-11-2007 by Realtruth]

Overweight crisis is nonsense.
I was in the pharmacy just last week and they was putting new books on the shelf aimed at people with fat kids.
The staff who where stacking the shelves commented how for all the supposed obesity problems they sure dont see a lot of overweight kids, I paused for a moment and realised that I rarely see an overweight child either.
I was brought up on frozen food, pop, crisps and all that junk that is supposedly creating an obese nation but I was fairly skinny up to a few years ago when I had a bit of a break down and decided to stay in the house and eat more, thus I got fat, not foods fault, its called me not burning it off, simple.

It costs far less for me to fill a freezer with bags of chicken bites, chips, fish fingers and burgers and such than buy fresh vegetables and meat which needs to be used pretty much within days.
If they want us to eat healthier then maybe just maybe food needs a change around, lets make healthy stuff dirt cheap and make it organic too.

Truth is, Just because politicians and those pointing the finger can drive along everyday in their family saloon and pay out for the best products at the best supermarkets their is those of us who dont have such luxuries as an overflowing bank account.

reply to post by scientist


'Some fresh fruit' does not cost $1 - $2. The Sobey's online grocery store lists 3lbs of organic apples as costing $4.95.

A cheese burger at mcdonalds costs $0.99.

Just because Stumason

reply to post by stumason


stated that they make 3000 pounds a month doesn't mean that everyone makes that kind of money. In CAD that is $6, 000 a month. That works out to $72, 000 a year take home pay!!!! You are obviously not the poor person trying to make their way in the world with outrageous prices that I was talking about.

Someone making the minimum wage of $7.10 makes takes home $852 a month.

That's about $10, 000 a year. That's a major difference between your $72, 000 a year job.

Your 200-300 pounds a month for food works out in CAD to $500 dollars a month.

Take the $852 and subtract the $500 you say they should be able to afford for food and what are you left with?

$352 per month. Now, how can you live on $352 a month?!

Get off your high-horse and stop blaming people for being lazy and getting fat. It's obvious that not everyone can afford $500 a month for food. Your ignorance is appalling.

What was it that Marie Antoinette said?

"Let them eat cake"?

Are you as out of touch with reality as she was?

Edit for self censorship.


[edit on 20-11-2007 by Enrikez]

[edit on 20-11-2007 by Enrikez]