Taser video shows RCMP shocked immigrant within 25 seconds of their arrival

reply to post by devilwasp


devil, maybe it is me but i have NO idea what you are talking about...i watched the vid on my big ole tv and little ole lady citizen seemed not threatened(she said as much) and spent some time tryng to talk to him..

even IF they had to resort to the tazer, how about hooking dude up with some cpr...?
if there are medics on duty, how bout getting their ass to the situation..

i don't see the problem...more overzealous bacon is all

Originally posted by devilwasp
Just as a suggestion to those who are readying thier pitchforks and video cameras for the "Up and coming" police state , I think maybe....just maybe...... we could hold out for all the facts to arise before we make a judgement?

Or shall I look for the drum for us to hold a drum head trial on?

PIGS didn't wait for the "facts" did they?

[edit on 15-11-2007 by mecheng]

Deep in my heart
I do believe
That we shall overcome
Someday

How about a big THANKYOU to the man who was brave enough to fight them through their own system, to retrieve this incredibly important evidence from their clutches. More hero in him than these 'officers'.

Originally posted by Boondock78
devil, maybe it is me but i have NO idea what you are talking about...i watched the vid on my big ole tv and little ole lady citizen seemed not threatened(she said as much) and spent some time tryng to talk to him..

even IF they had to resort to the tazer, how about hooking dude up with some cpr...?
if there are medics on duty, how bout getting their ass to the situation..

i don't see the problem...more overzealous bacon is all

Well mate, all I'm saying is this: Dont rush into this....THINK.

To qoute Majic: "Those who fear dont have time to think, those who think dont have time to be afraid."

Wait for the facts before judging the cops...

Originally posted by mecheng

PIGS didn't wait for the "facts" did they?

[edit on 15-11-2007 by mecheng]

Thats a good question mecheng, I'll assume that was a question and not a sarcastic remark....unless ofcourse you take everything at face value.....

[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]

reply to post by devilwasp


facts about what?
i watched the vid....they gave it 25 seconds before they tazed him twice. they did not try cpr and no medics were called...

they killed the guy...

thats all i need to think about.

they didn't 'think', they just tazed...

i like the way the lady was handling the situation better....it's called trying...it might take 5 minutes or 30 minutes....better than killing someone

Originally posted by Boondock78
facts about what?
i watched the vid....they gave it 25 seconds before they tazed him twice. they did not try cpr and no medics were called...

they killed the guy...

thats all i need to think about.

they didn't 'think', they just tazed...

i like the way the lady was handling the situation better....it's called trying...it might take 5 minutes or 30 minutes....better than killing someone

Facts about the entire situation, is there something the cops knew that we dont? Look I'm not going to defend the cops, they killed a man its wrong but sometimes its necessary....whether this is one of those times is a question that remains to answered. Preferably by a court with all the evidence instead of the mob with bits of evidence and heresay.

Originally posted by devilwasp
Wait for the facts before judging the cops...

Which is exactly the same thing the cops are saying!

Which cops should we wait to judge?

The cops who lied about their behavior?

Or the cops trying to put a spin on this situation with statements like the one above?

They've really demonstrated that they're a trustworthy lot in this case, haven't they?

Originally posted by devilwasp

Facts about the entire situation, is there something the cops knew that we dont? Look I'm not going to defend the cops, they killed a man its wrong but sometimes its necessary....whether this is one of those times is a question that remains to answered. Preferably by a court with all the evidence instead of the mob with bits of evidence and heresay.

maybe you an explain this to me?

facts about the entire situation....like what? a few examples maybe...

sometimes it is necessary to kill a man? when


so lets assume this guy just murdered 14 people and thats why he was in a rage.....the fact is, this citizen tried a hell of a lot harder than the cops did to calm him down....

cops get there knowing he just murdered 14 people...is that why they rock him in 25 seconds? is that why they don't give him cpr?
they deivering justice on the street?

i think the question on should have have killed the guy can and should be answered right now....the answer is NO.

did that 1 guy threaten the lives of those 4 cops? enough to kill him?

come on man..watch the tape...


seems like that is their job these days...neve mind trying to save people..guy is loud and irate=put em down.

too bad the court can't decide now cause the guy is DEAD..he can't talk to the courts now....the cops took that from him...

Originally posted by Boondock78
maybe you an explain this to me?

I'll try...

facts about the entire situation....like what? a few examples maybe...

Do we know who the man is? Was it necessary to taser him? Was the taser working correctly?

I'm no expert on tasers but to have died from those shocks begs the other question: was there a substance in the man that caused him to die?

sometimes it is necessary to kill a man? when

Before I answer this let me just say I am in no way saying that this case is definatly one of those "need to kill" situations, I am merely stating that sometimes it happens.

As for when is it correct to kill a person? Thats another thread....

so lets assume this guy just murdered 14 people and thats why he was in a rage.....the fact is, this citizen tried a hell of a lot harder than the cops did to calm him down....

Maybe they did...maybe they didnt....all we can is thier actions not thier words...and even then its from a distance..

cops get there knowing he just murdered 14 people...is that why they rock him in 25 seconds? is that why they don't give him cpr?
they deivering justice on the street?

They put him in the recovery position....well it looks like it.
You dont do that if the patient is not breathing or has no pulse, you do that if your patient is breathing and has a pulse.

The real question is WHEN did he die? How did he die?

i think the question on should have have killed the guy can and should be answered right now....the answer is NO.

did that 1 guy threaten the lives of those 4 cops? enough to kill him?

come on man..watch the tape...

Did they mean to kill him? Or was it an accident?
Look no offence we DONT know the facts of the case: IE THE TIMELINE, when did he die? How did he die?

seems like that is their job these days...neve mind trying to save people..guy is loud and irate=put em down.

Thats being generalistic, I suggest you dont tarr everyone with the same brush. Is every cop bad? If so then I suppose you class me a homosexual because I'm a sailor , right?

too bad the court can't decide now cause the guy is DEAD..he can't talk to the courts now....the cops took that from him...

So you want a rash , quick and "just" punishment?

Originally posted by goosdawg
Which is exactly the same thing the cops are saying!

Which cops should we wait to judge?

The cops who lied about their behavior?

Uhh ok can I jsut ask: What are you on about with "Which cops"?
Did they lie?

Or the cops trying to put a spin on this situation with statements like the one above?

Like which one? Mine?

They've really demonstrated that they're a trustworthy lot in this case, haven't they?

How have they? Look show me what your on about and I'll try to understand what you are on about!?




[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]

Those police officers should all be imprisoned for life and teasers should be banned.

That guy did NOTHING wrong to deserve to die. NOTHING. There were more that 5 police officers there. They should have arrested him and IF he resisted they could have used force, but not teasers, force as in to immobilise him in such a way that they can handcuff him. It was 5 police officers vs 1 man.

But before even trying to handcuff him, you should first ask the man what is his problem. If he didn't know english, then take his passport and see where he is from and get a damn translator. I am sure he knew what passport means.

Truly disgusting. Canada, USA, it seems anywhere in North America you are in a Police State. This video shows exactly what is wrong with Americans.

It seems that if you analize things, USA or China, are not so different.

Originally posted by devilwasp

Do we know who the man is? Was it necessary to taser him? Was the taser working correctly?

^^^^^it's gonna be a lot harder to figure that out seeing as that can't hear the dead guys side of the story...was the tazer working?

I'm no expert on tasers but to have died from those shocks begs the other question: was there a substance in the man that caused him to die?


^^^^maybe. maybe not...either way, had they not tazed him, he'd be alive or at the least, he would not have been murdered? correct...

As for when is it correct to kill a person? Thats another thread....


^^^^why? cause you don't want to answer it? how about you u2u it to me cause i sure am curious

The real question is WHEN did he die? How did he die?

^^^as far as the how, i suppose we will have to settle for whatever they tell us when the autopsy comes out...as far as the when, well, after he was tazed and not administered cpr and when the medics were not called for 12 minutes....that is when he died....he sure didn't die when litle miss lady was trying to talk and make with the sign language......that didn't kill him...seems she tried a lot harder to diffuse the situation in a calm manner than the bacon did.

Did they mean to kill him? Or was it an accident?


^^^^hard to say? thats something else we will never know for real..how can we? the lady said she heard them talk about tazing him before they even got to him...at this point, they're gonna say what they're coached to say....i would bet it was an accident but it was an accident cause they #ed up, again....

Is every cop bad? If so then I suppose you class me a homosexual because I'm a sailor , right?


^^^i don't think every cop is bad but i think bout 8-9 out of 10 being bad seems about right....thats what my life has shown me so far...
as far as classing you a homosexual cause you're a sailor, uhh, no....you trying to bait me?
i don't have any problems with sailors....my beef is with abusive, power hungry cops that set out to rock people....

So you want a rash , quick and "just" punishment?

[

to the last part...no, i want 'just' punishment....who said rash and quick.

sure wasn't me?

Originally posted by Pericle
They should have arrested him and IF he resisted they could have used force, but not teasers, force as in to immobilise him in such a way that they can handcuff him. It was 5 police officers vs 1 man.

i have argued this in other police brutality threads and most people laugh at me...the cops can not so this cause they are not physical capable of doing this...like the cop that had to spray the small teen girl to get her to put her hands behind her back..

i don't know what kind of training these people go through but it has got to be minimal....i juggested that instead of relying on tazers and such so much and putting the hand on the gun as you approach cause you are scared, maybe they should learn some basic techniques.

a little judo for clinches and throws. a little muay thai for strikes(cops get in fights too) and a little folk or freestlye wrestling for if it hits the ground..

renzo gracie teaches cops in jersey.
matt hughes and pat militech have given seminars.
rorion gracie had a progaram for the cops about 10 years ago...

if they would learn to control the suspect a lot of this could be avoided....simple locks, holds and takedowns....that would work especially well in a partner scenerio....

for example, with 5 cops there, they would have taken him down without hurting him(or a bruise or something) and held him there, immobilized till one of the other 5 cuffed him...then, it takes as long as it takes to find out whats what

i guess i am a big ole dork for thinking the cops should know basic tosses and manipulations...i can not think of a better job save for actual fighting where these skills would be a great asset....

reply to post by Pericle


The guy traveled from Poland to live with his mother. He was held up at customs for reasons not known at this time. His mother was at the airport waiting to pick him up when he was detained for 10 hrs...for reasons not known at this time. While security guards were nearby, the Polish man was clearly agitated and destroyed a computer. To say that he did "NOTHING" is an understatement. Were the police aware that the man had been detained for 10 hours??? who knows. Were they dispatched there for an irate male who smashed a computer?? possibly...but who knows for sure. Did they guy calmy talk the officers, no he walked away agitated waving his arms and he was then tasered. Was he tased so that he could be handcuffed and detained, yes. Did the officer tase him with the intent to KILL him, doubtful.

I'm not saying that they were correct in tasing him so quickly and i dont believe that his death was intened, if they wanted to kill him they would have used "lethal force" and shot him with a gun. Tasers are being used more frequently these days to subdue a person with "non lethal force" in order to ensure officer safety. The number of people who have been tased is much greater than the deaths. In fact, they are now making designer tasers.

Originally posted by dreb13


the Polish man was clearly agitated and destroyed a computer. To say that he did "NOTHING" is an understatement. Were the police aware that the man had been detained for 10 hours???
if they wanted to kill him they would have used "lethal force"

this guy destroyed a whole computer.....
kill em then...

if i landed in say poland where i didn't speak the language and they put me in a room for 10 hours and there was nobody talking to me so i could understand them, i'd freak out too.
seems reasonable enough.

oh, they did use lethal force...

sad state of affairs that you get teh dead for smashing a pc

...

At a loss for words here.

Am I the only one who sees this treatment as both cruel, and unusual?

He was murdered. He had a damn stapler for crying out loud, did he deserve to die because of that? I hope these officers, at the very least loose their badge.. though I would get more satisfaction if they themselves where arrested for manslaughter.

This is our society people. America, Canada, it doesn't matter where you are, police are more aggressive, more quick to act with force instead of negotiation. four on one, I think they could have tackled him, could have brought an interpreter. Shocked him two plus times, chocked him, ultimetly killed him. I hope they are scared for life for what they did.

Judging from the man's behaviour I doubt that he has done something that made him deserve this treatment.

If he were to be a mass-murderer I would expect him to barricade himself in at the least, or attempt to kill the lady, rather than walk around in a secure zone, being frustrated.

[edit on 15/11/07 by -0mega-]

reply to post by Boondock78


A taser is classified as "non lethal force"

A gun is classified as "lethal force"

To clarify, if they intended to kill him, as you suggest, they would have used "lethal force" and shot him. they chose not to kill him and used "non lethal force". it is not known at this time what the exact cause of death was.

reply to post by dreb13


Nothing is ever black and white, despite how much you want it to appear like it is.
The cops are people like us given instructions to use force at their judgement. Partial blame should be put on them, and all police officers, because of the liberal use of the tazer that we've been witnessing over the last year or so. This thing has caused many deaths and have instilled fear in the general population. The cops are just unknowing patsies in all this because they're just doing their jobs.

It's the people who lobbied for the use of tazers and the people who profit from it that know full well that it has a high probability of death compared to other instruments like pepper spray, or even the old fashioned take-down which I assume 4 cops would be able to accomplish. Using a tazer in this case was highly unneccesary and is being used as a 'lazy cops' way of subduing a citizen without having to get all sweaty.

Its all fine and dandy until you get tazered yourself. If I was illegally tazed I sure hope that an army marched for my rights, just as I'd march for the rights of those who have died because of it.

reply to post by -0mega-


He was Polish, did not speak English, apparently spoke Russian.. was detained for unknown reasons, I would bet he didn't know either.. imagine going somewhere that when you grew up was considered a bad place (Poland under Russian control in the USSR, he would have grown up brainwashed against the West like Canada and the US.. peoples histories do effect situations)

So he is detained, he does not know why, begins to have a panic attack, no one understands him, he just wants to go home because he know he didn't do anything wrong.

If I where him, I would be in the same situation. I may not throw computers or tables, but I sure would be freaking out. With the way we act, he probably thought we considered him a terrorist!

dreb13:

At the current rate, it would appear that soon more people will die from tasers then guns. Studies have already shown many officers never fire their gun on the job and even less actually hit someone, but officers are far more prone to use a taser.

I would consider the Taser to be a semi-lethal weapon at the least.

To clarify, if they intended to kill him, as you suggest, they would have used "lethal force" and shot him. they chose not to kill him and used "non lethal force". it is not known at this time what the exact cause of death was.

You can tell they didn't mean to kill him. Watching the video you can see them realize with the "oh sh**" look on their face. Then by not calling medics, never trying to recessitate the poor fellow, they knew they simply screwed up royally, but thats besides the point.

They apparently do not know where to draw the line.

He had no drugs in his system, no medication.

He most likely died of a taser induced heart attack, or being chocked.

I watched the CNN video too. It was pointed out that if you listen to it closely, you hear the Tasing officer ASK "Permission to use the Taser?" BEFORE they even walked up to the man in the corridor. The Commander replied "Yes!" and then they confronted the man. He didn't "wave his arms about", he put his hand out, away from him with fingers spread and turned around. I didn't see an object in his hand. Then, an officer attempted to grab his one arm, which he pulled away. At that point he was Tazed. He scrunched up and fell to the floor. He was then pounced upon by the RCMP Mounties and a knee was place at the back of his neck, pinning his face to the floor.

Scared, isolated, tired, confronted, abused and dead. That's your timeline right there.

Sad.
Cuhail