Breakthrough in primate cloning

Originally posted by RedGolem

Yes so your saying your clone, some one who is completely human, would be your property?
A war was fought over that issue in the U.S.

i don't know exactly what i am saying...still at the tossing ideas around stage.
you keep saying completely human but the would only have chromo's/dna from me so are they completely human?
i don't know...

would i own them in a sense that i own a dog? not sure

stull mulling it over...

no war was fought over ownership of clones, in any country, ever....
nice try though

Originally posted by planetfall

my liver is my property, if i grow a new one, it is mine as well

this isnt about creating a human duplicate in total, not someone who runs around and plays with other kids, then is put down for organ harvesting

thats alarmist fear mongering, and its origin is fear and ignorance.

are your toenail clippings not yours to do with as you wish?

wurd up man..i like the way you think....

if i have the cash to let the doc take a fat dna sample to either create organs or clone another 'me' then i'm gonna do it...it's me/mine....

this is not about plucking some random person to harvest their organs...

this is taking an organ that was made from my dna and is kept alive in my clone...

reply to post by Boondock78


small world, my uncle lives there, he worked at the ford plant for ages, cool!

Though I'd (aside for cloning for ''safety '' / medical purposes) also want to clone someone of the opposite sex, preferably a hot person, or someone I have a crush on.

[edit on 14/11/07 by -0mega-]

i would not agree with that scenerio omega unless say your wife had no problem with you cloning her...

now how rad would that be eh guys?


seriously though, what does everyone else thing about cloning ourselves or parts of ourselves for a harvest if the parts were needed?


here is my idea situation.
i go in tomorrow and get my dna sample taken and the clone is started.
they can accalerate it's growth somehow but if not, no big deal.
so i pick my ideal age which would be around 27 and they take my clone and they keep it in a state where the muscles won't atrophy, etc....even if it involves therapists moving the muscles around.....

i am 30 now. my degenerative condition would still be there but i could either teach my clone about it before something happened to me, or, when they translant/download my brain, my clone will know....

so i would like to hace a clone of me about 27 years old, waiting for the data from my brain to be downloaded into the clone....when the first me dies, the clone gets fired up and the new me is operational and the process starts all over again...
when the 2nd you dies, you have a clone at the ready and you download all the data...

it would be so much better than this cosmik joke of about 70 years that we get.....lets crank it up to two or three hundo....

300 years...so just a few clones. that would be cool.
if you need a part in between then, you could get it from your clone and then clone your clone a new part.


i'd like to hear what others have to say

Originally posted by uneaq
people are supposed to die of organ failure... its called natural causes

People are "supposed" to die of all sorts of things, a lot of which we can fix up with a few pills and a couple of days in bed

Does a clone have a soul?

Originally posted by Boondock78
maybe keep them walking around and have very, very basic stimulation to keep the brain going or keep them hooked into a matrix type program that is real, real basic and just keps teh neurons firing....then, when i am on my deathbead, they can download the data and start clone number 2

But your soul would not download into the new clone. So although the clone would be identical to you, and know everything you did, and acted exactly like you did, it would have its' own soul, or no soul.

It does say "those whos names are not written in the book of life shall be thrown into the lake of fire" in the Bible. I interpret this as .. there are some people who will not be saved, or will not have souls, or maybe, only genuinely created humans through the traditional method have the option to attain Heaven after death. I'd be very interested to see if human cloning ever actually takes place, and if the cloned humans function just like regular humans. Something tells me that it won't quite happen the way that we can envision it, for one reason or another. It just seems so unnatural.

[edit on 11/14/2007 by runetang]

Scripture speaks of abominations of life. Perhaps the clone is a hollow husk? Living on the outside, void of inner life...

Originally posted by runetang


But your soul would not download into the new clone. So although the clone would be identical to you, and know everything you did, and acted exactly like you did, it would have its' own soul, or no soul.

well, i don't believe that we have a soul...as long is it looks like me, acts like me and knows all that was in my brain, then it's a working clone...

bringing in the issue of a soul brings religion into it.

so what is the problem with it?

Originally posted by Boondock78
well, i don't believe that we have a soul...as long is it looks like me, acts like me and knows all that was in my brain, then it's a working clone...

But it's still only a copy of you.

Forget the religious overtones, whether souls exist, and all that.

It would still be only a copy, and when the original you ceased to function, i.e. died, the copied you would carry on, but it wouldn't be you.

You know?

[edit on 14-11-2007 by goosdawg]

Originally posted by goosdawg

But it's still only a copy of you.

Forget the religious overtones, whether souls exist, and all that.

It would still be only a copy, and when the original you ceased to function, i.e. died, the copied you would carry on, but it wouldn't be you.

You know?

the way i am seeing it, it would be a copy of me till my brain or the data from my brain gets downloaded, then it is me v2.0

sure, it's a copy as i am the original but once all my feelings/memories/etc are downloaded, then i'm me again.

IMO anyway

sounds good enough for me and i would definately do it.

Originally posted by planetfall


my liver is my property, if i grow a new one, it is mine as well

Planetfall,
I probably should make that clarifacation. If you clone your liver yes it should be yours. It has been a while but I think that distinction has been made in U.S. laws.

Originally posted by Boondock78


i don't know exactly what i am saying...still at the tossing ideas around stage.
you keep saying completely human but the would only have chromo's/dna from me so are they completely human?
i don't know...

would i own them in a sense that i own a dog? not sure

Boondock,
yes by all means please do keep thinking about it. This will be an issue at some point I am sure.
As to the war being fought over owner ship of another person, I made that reference because this thread is about the possibilities of cloning. Ownership is one that will need to be dealt with at some point.

Originally posted by RedGolem
As to the war being fought over owner ship of another person, I made that reference because this thread is about the possibilities of cloning. Ownership is one that will need to be dealt with at some point.

i know why you brought it up and i know what you were refering too. slavery right?

that was the buying and selling of people.

that is not the same as me 'possibly' keeping a clone of myself.
if you can clone a liver and it's yours, why not the rest....

when i said i would think about it i meant cause i don't know how i would feel about it....love? if so to what degree?


i don't believe in the soul and all that so maybe that is why my lack of having a problem with this

There we go playing God again!

Originally posted by dk3000
There we go playing God again!

have to believe in god to play him/her/it

not everyone does....it's called science/medicine...


edit* question

when does practicing medicine end and playing god start?

is taking a shot playing god?
surgery?
preventative medicine?
transplants?
etc etc?

where is the line

[edit on 14-11-2007 by Boondock78]

You guys can have it. When its time for me to go, its time for me to go. The sad part of life is that eventually it has to end. Thats natural. Thats the way it has always been, and always will be, one way or another. Eventually nature will find a way to end your existance. If not by wearing out, than by lack of food source. If not lack of food source, disease. If not disease, something else.

They have always said "You can't play god", but maybe you can. The true fact is though, you can't play nature. It will always find a balance, whether you are part of it or not.

Like I said, when its my time to go, so be it. I don't believe in an afterlife really, so its not like I believe there is something after death or that Im going to it. I simply have come to grips with mortality, and the fact we aren't special from every other living thing on this planet.

Oh and if the clone is living I am completely against it. If its brain can function and it is a living thing, I am against that. The clone is an individual and deserves rights like any other living human being.

Simply put, if the person were never living, fine. You want to clone a body for parts, fine. To clone them and put them to work though, not a freakin chance. I will fight that all the way to the supreme court. If they ruled against, I would be tempted to start a revolution. Why? Because if they are alive, they are human beings just like us. They have rights. They aren't any less than a naturally born person, regardless of what you say. They live, they experience, and therefore, they are not yours to do what you feel like.

""Blood I will mass and cause boned to be.
I will establish a savage, 'man' shall be his name.
Verily, savage man I will create. "

Enuma Elish

same old....