Why do people think it's o.k. to force their moralities/beliefs on other people?

reply to post by Clearskies


I can understand where you're coming from, but that is YOUR opinion. I know girls who completely disagree with you. Well then, you must be right, so let's all limit these other girl's activities by making a law against it.

Also, you can single out one or two things and completely disregard Benjamin Franklin. It's the whole idea behind it. Also, it was in response to Raith's post about making things illegal because there is a negative to follow ANYTHING. You have to look at it in context.

I agree with the OP. A sentient being cannot be so easily grouped in my opinion. The minute you can think, you are no longer the same as anyone who has come before. If I was a robot with free thought and will, would you expect me to follow draconian human laws? Well, why would you subject other humans to such things unless you were afraid. My body is human, but my mind is not. I want to get past this inept biological stage of my consciousness' life. If I was presented a way to transfer my mind to non biological body I would. Would you say I was still human even though my body wasn't? Laws only apply to the weak because they are afraid of punishment. I would accept any pain as long as I make my own choices. Only animals without true consciousness submit to others. I am a sentient being, attack me and I will defend!

reply to post by Raist


Oh my goodness. What exactly are you trying to accomplish by asking for proof of something just because you haven't heard of it. Must not exist eh? Look, took me 2 seconds to find it on Google.

www.freecolorado.com...

Pretty tough huh?

Also, I now want to see proof of your claims about taxes. It's funny that I can provide proof of the OPPOSITE of what you say in regard to that, but you still think one way. Prostitution is a state matter. People in Nevada pay LESS taxes because casinos and brothels pay all the state taxes. THEY ARE FORCED TO SUPPORT THEMSELVES.

reply to post by bigbert81



There is FABULOUS $$$$ in stripping and probably prostitution, but if these girls tell you that it's a grand career and wonderful, & FULFILLING, they're LYING. Watch your back pocket!!!

Being a naked piece of meat only demeans the person. BTW, stripping and drug use are usually found together.

reply to post by Clearskies


You are once again just stating your opinion. Just because you feel it's wrong, or you stripped with girls like the sort you are describing, doesn't mean we should make it illegal. If we did, you would be forcing your moralities on other people. Whole point of the thread.

Also, I could care less if a girl wants to do drugs. It's her body, she should have the choice.

Originally posted by bigbert81
reply to post by mentalempire

 

In regards to prostitution, sex slaves are part of an underground world. If they made it legal and regulated it, we would see a DECREASE in bad sex trade practices.

And as far as gambling, organized crime goes after things that ARE illegal, not usually things that aren't. Making things like this illegal is what draws organized crime. Remember Prohibition?

Think about this, is it right to force these morality laws on people. I agree that stuff like adultery is bad, but people should have the ability to live their lives how they want. Isn't that the definition of freedom?

[edit on 11/11/2007 by bigbert81]

In Las Vegas Prostitution is legal and you don't think they have problems with sex slavery?

Gambiling is legal in Las Vegas and you are going to tell me that there is no organized crime there?

Maybe some of these "moral" laws as you call them are just good common sense. Just because something feels good doesn't make it healthy you really have to look at the whle picture. Adultry doesn't just hurt the jilted spouse, it hurts the family, the kids, etc. Same with prostitution.

I agree that the ban on buying on Sunday is silly.
Prohibition - good law in theory. Not practical in reality. I would say gun control fits under that same rule good in theory, not practical in reality.

"I believe in the right to bear arms or the right to arm bears" - Robin Williams

reply to post by crwmknapp


It gets a bit deeper than that. Prostitution is legal OUTSIDE of Vegas. Over an hour outside. The illegal sex trade is in Vegas, not Pahrump, where it is legal (one of the places). About 50% of the people traveling to Vegas believe that prostitution is legal, and then if you mix that with MARKETING, it creates a huge DEMAND in a place where it is ILLEGAL.

As far as adultery goes, you must be truly naive to think that a silly law would or could FORCE a family to stay together. If the husband/wife want to stray, they're going to. It might not be morally right, but it should definitely not be illegal.

Originally posted by bigbert81
reply to post by crwmknapp

 

As far as adultery goes, you must be truly naive to think that a silly law would or could FORCE a family to stay together. If the husband/wife want to stray, they're going to. It might not be morally right, but it should definitely not be illegal.

I do agree with you about people who don't want to stay together shouldn't stay together and those who try and create laws about such are foolish.
My point was more of the fact that people don't think about how their behaviour affects other. Prostitution isn't solely about what the two people are doing if one or both of those people are married. Their actions cause ripples in all of their relationships.
I really believe that when you are married, living together, what ever your arrangements are you are paying for sex anyway.

reply to post by crwmknapp


Wrong. SOME people don't consider how their actions affect others. OTHERS do. This is why we should not feel that we have to make laws to restrict EVERYBODY when there is only some who, in your opinion, still need some sort of parental supervision.

Originally posted by bigbert81

Why don't I hear you making the same arguments about alchohol. No wait, because pot is illegal, therefore MUST be worse, right?

I didn't suggest in anyway pot is worst and I also stated that the act of using it is not the issue. You need to read my posts

My argument is that alcohol is controllable in that we have set tests that determine how much you have in your system and laws have been based on this. If a person smokes pot AND we had like test AND we had the ability to know how much THC is too much to make it unlawful when used in the same way as alcohol then why not legalize it.

As it is now I do not think anyone really knows how much THC in your system is too much, and the fact that it is still in your system up to weeks after use is also a rather big issue. Since it is a drug then public use of any kind would need to be banned, and this opens up more issues of it use around other people even in your own home.

As I have stated, I feel if something affects others then we need regulations/laws to limit the affects it could have on others.

Also, you say that it's a small percentage of brothels? How about 100% of them in the U.S. Doesn't sound like a small exception anymore does it?

Not sure of your point. I meant that brothels equal a very small percent of prostitution. Most women do not want to be in the position they are in and in that case they are victims. You my friend are talking about a very small percent of women who see prostitution as their trade, and to think that legalizing it would cure the majority of prostitutes that are forced into it by circumstances and then find they can’t get out of it is very wishful thinking. If anything it would open the doors to more abuse of women since then it would be legal.



[edit on 13-11-2007 by Xtrozero]

Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by bigbert81

 

Raist

I'm just trying to figure out how these people hurt you? Taxes are taxes either way you gotta pay them, an bert an I are still waiting on some proof of the inflation of taxes do to funding medicare for people with drug use and/or STD's. I'm from Massachusetts and you have to have health care now or you lose your entire tax refund, this is clearly to attack the person who doesn't want to pay for healthcare and use the states budget instead, so clearly in my state your tax thing doesn't apply. As for old people who can't afford medicare, again massachusetts has free medicare for the poor and elderly, your thought again doesn't apply. As to the fact of babies being born as drug addicts well that just may be the one case that is a very grey area for my explaination. Although if laws were in order the parents should be made to do Major and I mean major jail time for screwing their kid up (10-12/12-24 year periods). Science has also shown statistically that babies can be weened away from this addictive habit, I don't have a site right now since I'm typing but I'll get one. Also statistically speaking if your funding the poor aka welfare families then you would have to be in a very top bracket of income (80k an up annually). So it's very hard to support your stand but I do belive in all opinions welcome. I just think you have to quit this I'm paying for things bs cause whether you like it or not you'll be paying for the rest of your life and alot more so if the independent user isn't held fully responsible.

reply to post by bigbert81


G-Ds laws /rules/morality are the only ones that really count if you want to be on the winning team and get to live forever-----------why do others want to force their morality on you ---not G-Ds-----because it helps them to feel better about themselves if everyone is in lockstep in their madness----surely if we all sin together we are safe----the sheep instinct----cant be doing anything wrong??????we all are tempted to justify our sins with a "logical" excuse----but it aint going to work come judgement time !

My Opinion

Why do people force their views one others?

Well it all goes back to my argument over caring vs apathy.

If you care about something enough you feel you must share it with others and

people don't think for themselves and basically the mob mentality rules.

If nobody cared about anything then nobody would force any belief on you!

well thats my opinion

reply to post by Miishgoos


Awe, the classic 'I do it because I care' line which my parents used to use.

The thing is though, that people shouldn't need this supervision. It's like being a teen living with your parents.

And as far as mob mentality, I think people are far out there when they say that without this, or religion for that sake, that people would go evil and crazy. People have morals.

reply to post by Xtrozero


Ok, I can see where your coming from, and here's my problem. There are charges called (at least in Colorado) DUID. Meaning Driving Under the Influence of Drugs. Police officers can tell if someone is acting this way.

Now here's what I'm getting, correct me if I'm wrong, 'Pot should not be legal because we have no actual meter (like a breathalizer) to measure the amount of THC in someone'.

Weigh it. What's worse, allowing someone who smokes pot have their lives ruined, let street gangs continue to make money&kill people over it, let underground crime labs/organizations profit, OR not having a "pot breathalizer"?

We can find negative aspects in regards to ALL things. I guess we just have to go with the lesser evil in this way of thinking, and try to make the most out of it.

reply to post by bigbert81


My Opinion

LOL thats funny

But I was arguing the opposite dude =

I'm a big fan of apathy and the good people apathy grows.

Caring has resulted in wars and strife.

but anyway that is my personal opinion.

Let me see you believe a business can exist without cutting into tax money as well as paying into it? Even your local Wal-Mart is digging into taxes to a point every time you have a new business enter an area it drains additional time of any government agency that would involve the monitoring of such business.

The government protects employees through an employee protections act. This act is there to make sure there are no child employees, that there are no discrimination in hiring or firing of employees and so forth.
First let us look at on certain fact. The more people that are seeing the doctor the more costs will increase due to demand, does demand not increase the price of things? Ok so now you have more women going to the doctor on a more than average basis they are not going to be paying the price all by themselves either they will get it for “free” or their insurance will cover some of the cost. The more insurance is used the more the cost goes up. This increase is not for just that person but everyone in the U.S. Every year I pay more for my health insurance because more and more people are going to the doctors for different illnesses and such. I know it’s not me causing this increase because I rarely if ever go to the doctor. The cost of health care increases far too much each year to worry about helping to pay the increase due to people wanting more sex. Sex is not a necessary thing though it is quite fun and helpful in increasing the population but that is not the discussion. This is about sex for entertainment only that for of sex is not a necessity to life providing real healthcare is though such as treating cancer and other major illnesses.

Prostitution is being spoken about like a business so that means it will be ran like any other business. Next who is going to make sure each prostitute is of age and legal? Again this is a government agency. Each time a business comes to be it takes time for government employees to manage and over see that business. That is where the regulations come into play you have people making sure the business is not putting waste into our environment, that the business is safe for customers and employees to be in, that each employee is of a certain age and a legal citizen. So these agencies will either pay more in overtime so that these additional tasks can be completed or they will hire new people. In doing either of these it will cost the government more money if it costs the government more money it will increase my taxes. I do not like to pay taxes for the entertainment of others that goes for any entertainment. I want my money spent on me or on things that are needed not simple desires of others. Government agencies would need to be heavily involved to keep the trafficking of humans down. It would be highly possible that even making it legal would increase slaves or even paid slaves in the industry. There would be a huge demand and the average “working life” of a working person is really not that long. Who is going to control that no minors or children get involved? Who is going to make sure that all the workers are legal? These are all taken care of by government agencies. An increase in business for these agencies will increase my taxes. When the government spends more money it costs me more money plain and simple. Another thing is who is going to make sure these prostitutes are paying their taxes and what is the benefit for them to pay taxes vs. going out and doing it illegally still?

For prostitution to be legal there would be a great deal of trouble in making sure it was properly regulated to not see this is sad at best. Who is regulating porn in the U.S. that is legal and how much is spent on it each year? The government in the U.S. regulates it in many ways to keep things safe for children and those in the industry, though they can only regulate the later for those in the U.S. and they have a great deal of trouble regulating that.
About what AIDS is doing.
Your government agencies.
Some information on taxes and healthcare.
Some more information on taxes and healthcare
More information on taxes and healthcare.
About the agencies over seeing business
A list of agencies who would be involved in legal prostitution
Legal prostitution?
Though I hate using Wikipedia, how many actually pay their taxes?
Legal prostitution who will watch over all these laws surrounding it and who will pay for it?
More on legal prostitution who will watch over all these laws surrounding it and who will pay for it?
More on legal prostitution who will watch over all these laws surrounding it and who will pay for it?
Even more on legal prostitution who will watch over all these laws surrounding it and who will pay for it?





It’s simple really sex is an easy to find for free, entertainment is not a necessary thing for life. When someone else’s desire for either is at risk of costing me additional money I am concerned and not for the proposition of it. If you could guarantee that it would not increase my healthcare costs further and increase my taxes further I would be for it until I can get an absolute guarantee you can do without or go find it for free.

Raist

reply to post by Lokey13


I agree that yes I am paying for many things I do not want to be paying for, but I am saying I do not want to be paying even more for things I am not going to be using and is not a necessity for life.

This is an augment about people wanting entertainment and desire over necessity. I do not mind as much paying or helping to pay for others needs but I do despise paying for others wants and desires. If I am going to pay for anyone’s wants and desires I want it to be my own families not someone else.

But yes I do pay taxes for things I don’t agree with but I don’t want to be spending even more on for pointless things.
Raist

Originally posted by bigbert81

Ok, I can see where your coming from, and here's my problem. There are charges called (at least in Colorado) DUID. Meaning Driving Under the Influence of Drugs. Police officers can tell if someone is acting this way.


Now here's what I'm getting, correct me if I'm wrong, 'Pot should not be legal because we have no actual meter (like a breathalizer) to measure the amount of THC in someone'.

Yep that's it

Weigh it. What's worse, allowing someone who smokes pot have their lives ruined, let street gangs continue to make money&kill people over it, let underground crime labs/organizations profit, OR not having a "pot breathalizer"?

Here is how I weigh it right now. I'm not sure what the right answer is, but if we did make it legal we would first need the majority to agree on it and since the majority of the country would not agree we are dead in the water until that would change.

But I think right now it would open a Pandora’s Box of other issues.

1. Anytime a person can smell it they could sue the person smoking. Also anytime a kid smelled it the person smoking it could go to jail for affecting minors.

2. Any company could do random drug tests and fire everyone who test positive for it, and since it is legal to smoke and stays in a person system a very long time that could be a lot of people who lives are ruined.

3. In an age where smoking is a big evil health wise I find it hard to allow pot smoking since it is also a form of smoking and does cause mostly the same health issues as cigarettes.

4. Right now we really have no way to determine how much THC in a person’s system would be considered not under the influence, and since it stays in a person a really long time then that could make that person basically stranded from just about everything but walking. This would open up a huge can of worms for people going to court over it.

These are just four off the top of my head that I do not think the situation would be any better. We would most likely have many more issues, but different than the ones we have today with it as it stands.

Originally posted by Raist

Entertainment is not a necessary thing for life.

Have to disagree with you there. If you feel that life should be all work and no play, all the power to you. Personally I don't see the point of living with no entertainment, and feel that it is absolutely necessary to prevent us from being a bunch of robots(even though the gov't would probably prefer us to be like that)

There have been a lot of good points on this thread, and some that make me a little angry. Laws should be in place for the protection of the people, not to try and force someones morals on somebody else. Live and let live. The problem is that bad things that happen are sensationalized much more than good things, and when that happens, there will always be people who think that they know whats best for everyone else and think that it is there duty to protect us from ourselves. Sorry, but that should not happen. No one has the right to tell anyone else how they must live their lives, regardless of the actions that other person takes.

It's a shame that too many among us don't seem to have an understanding of what it takes to be a good person, and to enjoy your life without infringing on the lives of others. All in all, I agree with the OP on this one.