Why do people think it's o.k. to force their moralities/beliefs on other people?

Originally posted by bigbert81
Get out of here and don't come back if you can't make a reasonable statement!

oh man, your response is just too funny - you literally had me laughing out loud.
I had an entire paragraph laid out here and ready to send, but upon review, it will be better to just watch more for entertainments sake.

quick question; how is it possible to force a belief on somebody?

Originally posted by Meatclown
quick question; how is it possible to force a belief on somebody?

Put a gun to their head, torture them, tell them they're going to hell, take all their rights away, kill everyone they know. Pretty easy, however that doesn't guarantee they will actually believe in what you're trying to force them to believe. Point is, you can't actually force anyone to believe anything they don't want to believe for themselves.

Reminds me of when I went to a Mayan site in Belize. There was an old ruined Catholic mission at the site, set up by conquistadors. When they excavated the site, they found, buried underneath the altar, figurines of Mayan gods. The Mayans were going to the mission, pretending to worship the Christian god, yet they were actually praying to their own gods whose likenesses weere hidden under the Christian altar.

What a conundrum this whole idea has been, is and always will be.

Firstly you cannot force anyone to believe something, either they believe it or not.
Secondly what you are asking is for others to believe the way you do. Either it is ok to gamble or not many communities at first may desire the added number of people such a thing would bring to the area. I mean surely businesses will get more revenue being brought in and the community will grow and prosper from the taxes being paid by such a place. But this also brings in other not so desired life styles. You will have people looking to make a quick buck without spending their own thus robbing people more often. Several families will be torn apart due to the fact that some fool cannot control their own desires and they become addictions. Children may go unfed because of this and then the tax payers money will go to feed to child who before was getting plenty of food.

Prostitution being legal will reduce the number of rapes and sexual assaults are what are normally claimed when this issue is brought up. Yet this is not completely true one out of maybe one hundred sexual assaults is an issue of sex only, normally it is more of a dominance issue and a desire to cause another to feel a great deal of fear, pain, or stress. Prostitution being legal could be a very hard thing to manage and would cause a rise in tax payer spending due to another organization being brought about to manage such a thing. You would need constant doctor supervision not to mention managing the ages of the girls/guys, and legal status of such people.
If you don’t want the doctors to constantly be there than you are allowing a greater risk of disease to be spread increasing the cost of medical care throughout the nation. The age of prostitutes would need to be watched for those being exploited or those who are runaways. Legal status would need to be considered as with any job in the U.S. nothing against immigrants just so long as they are legal.
Would the legalization of prostitution reduce the risk of exploitation or slavery? Doubtful because there are always going to be those who will desire something new and exciting along with those who already desire such activity. It might actually increase this sort of activity because desires many times lead people to crave more and more of what they are already getting. This is more than true with a great deal of Americans today you can see this in all the defective mental states so many live in with their addictions and depraved desires.
The question remains though why should one be concerned with the wants and desires of another? Because if you are my neighbor and you want to party all the time I will not get as much sleep so that I can go to work, those who come around your home maybe of an unsavory sort who might desire to harm my family in some way, and my property value may reduce because not many people will want to live next door to a neighbor like that. Are all people interested in paying for sex bad people? No, but they are truly misguided since sex for free is very easy to get and just as safe as with a paid “professional”.
They sell alcohol here on Sundays so I am not sure where that comes from and I have never heard of it being illegal to sell a car on Sunday I would like proof of this. I would think many car lots are closed on Sunday because the dealers would like to have some days with their families seeing as they are at the lots a great deal of the time the other six days of the week.


So who is trying to “force” their beliefs onto others, them for mentioning that they think you should live like this or you for wanting laws passed so that you can live like this?

Raist

Originally posted by bigbert81
Does anyone else have any opinions on this matter?

Imagine the situation objectively. You have a "country" which consists of imaginary lines drawn across a big chunk of land, and "laws" that people you don't know make up, for you to obey within this chunk of land that they claim as their own.

The "problem" is that everybody does what they want, but only a few people have the power to make laws.

Fortunately, other people (that don't get to make laws), make their own "law," and do whatever they want, regardless. Thus people still get their prostitution, alcohol, etc., etc.

Which one is any more wrong? I don't think either of them are. Both are completely arbitrary. You can literally do whatever you want, and so can "they".


Expand it to the religious, etc., you still have people doing whatever they want. A missionary walks up to you to give you their lip, and who's stopping them? On the other hand, what's stopping you from taking offense and flipping out on them? Or punching them in the face? Or politely explaining that you don't give a damn about what they have to offer?

You can do whatever you want. There may be a consequence, from someone else's reaction, but really there are no set rules (at least that can't be broken) for how anyone must behave.

[edit on 12-11-2007 by bsbray11]

In Texas, when I was young, there was what was called the Blue Law. Only certain items could be sold on Sunday.

A blue law, in the United States and Canada, is a type of law designed to enforce moral standards, particularly the observance of Sunday as a day of worship or rest. Most have been repealed or are simply unenforced, although prohibitions on the sale of alcoholic beverages, and occasionally almost all commerce, on Sundays are still enforced in many areas

Blue Law Wiki Link

Alcohol cannot be purchased before noon on Sunday here.

reply to post by bigbert81


so you got arrested for participating in prostitution, had to go to court, and NOW you feel it should be legal on the basis that it's not the worst cime you can commit, and it goeas against your beliefs ?

is that the gist of it ? if so, move to holland

just like ignorance of the law is no excuse, so is disagreeing with the law

if the world was run your way, everyone gets to do whatever they want, as long as it's aligned with thier beliefs.


considering humans are the most violent, evil, cruel, selfish species on earth, I'll pass

Originally posted by bigbert81
Does anyone else have any opinions on this matter?

[edit on 11/11/2007 by bigbert81]

Quite simply, we tend to regulate in others those weaknesses we perceive within ourselves.


This strategy is seldom effective, and almost always, at least somewhat, oppressive. However, since we are dealing with the operational structures of societies, and since societies are generally evolved, rather than logically planned, this reflexive strategy is the one most often employed...

The "Default" option, if you will.

"Tis a pity.

I, in general, believe that people should have their freedom and be able to do as they will with their life as long as it does not infringe on others. And that the kicker. Many people are not aware of what effect their actions can have on others. They fail to see the wreckage in their own wake. A few abusers can end it for everyone.



[edit on 11/12/2007 by roadgravel]

well, for one thing, laws bring money in, which is what they are for, not so much to impose a system of beliefs, but to bring in cash. Morality is regulated for the same reason, MONEY, if you feel guilty, you will give more money to the moral leaders you folllow ( ie church of your choice)

Just remember, perversion, in all it's many forms is in the eye of the BEHOLDER................

Originally posted by Meatclown
quick question; how is it possible to force a belief on somebody?

Ohh I dunnno, maybe invade a country then kill everyone that disagrees with you?

When I saw this thread title, I expected it to be about so-called political correctness, or PC.

IMO PC is a subtle, but insidious way of forcing what are often minority held beliefs onto the majority.

Same could be said about so-called "hate crimes" that involve an abridgement of the constitutional right of free speech.



[edit on 11/12/2007 by centurion1211]

Originally posted by centurion1211
When I saw this thread title, I expected it to be about so-called political correctness, or PC.

IMO PC is a subtle, but insidious way of forcing what are often minorty held beliefs onto the majority.

Same could be said about so-called "hate crimes" that involve an abridgement of the constitutional right of free speech.

Yeah, they totally #ed up by not allowing us retarded/racist people have a stand and access to nuklearrrr weppons.

"D.A.: You're still going to be treated as Guilty"

by whom? him as the DA or society as a whole?

BS.

Dumb question, if you can ask the question You know the answer.

[edit on 12-11-2007 by myowncrusade]

Originally posted by Raist
What a conundrum this whole idea has been, is and always will be.

Firstly you cannot force anyone to believe something, either they believe it or not.
Secondly what you are asking is for others to believe the way you do.

Raist

I agree with this for sure.

Face it, america is not an equal country. Its not suppose to be! (sure theres always going to be people who want big brothers welfare check and want to become dependent on the system). This isnt communism here. Look back in history and look what this country is founded on. Whats next, your car breaks down..are you going to sue your local chevy dealer for closing on sunday because its his right? Why cant you accept that? Believe whatever you want, just dont say 'oh, well they cant do that to me, those god loving freaks, lets burn the church'. just my opinion.. Sometimes I wonder.

Well in the world today The Drug trade is #1 followed by the sex/slave trade and finally weapons trade. All three are rather bad...

Prostitution is not a victimless crime to say the lease and I really do not care about if people use drugs but they also tend to use drugs and drive or go to work then that kind of puts everyone in danger because people can't handle their habits. Hell, we can't handle alcohol much less a society of heavy drug users.

Let’s say Pot was legalized. How long should a person wait until they drive or work? How do we enforce that when we really cannot run a test like we can with alcohol because THC stays in your system for weeks. If a person got into an accident or hurt someone at work or even destroyed equipment and they had even a tiny bit of THC in their system how do you judge that as to if it was a factor.

So for me it is not so much the illegal act that I think is dangerous to society as much as the inability for a person who would do an act to not have negative effects on society too. If you can say hey this puts no one at risk then it should be legal. If you can’t say that then there should be laws to prevent those risks. Drinking and driving is a good example, or even drunk in public when drinking in your own house is ok.

I do think laws based on religious influence are stupid too, but I do find a few laws better to have than not to have, and I’m totally discussed when some are not used to the full extent that they should be, like with child molesters as example.


[edit on 12-11-2007 by Xtrozero]

reply to post by syrinx high priest


Ok, whoa, haven't been here in a little while.

Firstly, no. And don't make stupid assumptions like that. I bring up several things, none of which happened, and you hop on me picking up a prostitute?

Yeah, I can see you put a lot of thinking into that. Your assumptions are ridiculous.

And if you would actually READ what I said instead of getting these ridiculous notions, you would see that the world would NOT be run in any which way as long as it fit into their beliefs. People should have the right to live how they want to and pursue happiness on their own AS LONG AS IT DOESN'T INFRINGE ON SOMEONE ELSE'S RIGHTS TO DO THE SAME. Quite a bit of a difference there huh?

Oh who am I kidding, you probably won't be able to understand the caps above either.



[edit on 11/13/2007 by bigbert81]

reply to post by Raist


You might want to check you facts too. Prostitution is legal outside of Las Vegas in a place called Pahrump. Here is an exerpt from an article:

Nevada brothels have an amazing track record of maintaining "clean" businesses, meaning no prostitutes have been found to have AIDS or other serious contagious diseases

This is a well known fact. Regular checkups in Brothels, who by the way, pay the state taxes so that taxpayers don't have to. Yeah, believe it. Because of gambling and prostitution in Vegas, people actually spend LESS money on taxes.

As far as "proof" of car lots not being able to sell cars, Colorado and Nevada, 2 places I've lived have a law against selling new cars on Sunday. I'm not going to go find proof for you. If you don't believe me, you can go find it yourself.

People in this thread are also taking the word 'beliefs' too literally. Of course you cannot make someone believe something through force; but I CAN have a belief about a subject and make a law to enforce it.

I hope that clears it up a bit.