The human races have different DNA...

reply to post by RedDragon


What I did fail to see was where in the article mentions that is conclusive proof of anything.

Even if they found that there is difference, what exactly is the difference? That is the question need it to be answer. Show me the persons that were studied to come to this conclusion.

Even if this is the case, then what it proves? What's the conclusion? What purpose does it serve? Where we go from here? Nothing will change, morons today will be morons tomorrow and smart people from today will continue to be that way tomorrow. That's my whole point with this issue of IQ and race, is irrelevant because it will not change anything not even the superioristic feelings, prejudice and stereotypes that are already in place.

reply to post by j_kalin


According to David Wilcock's theories, we are 99% compatable to every other living thing. So forget minor differences in skin pigments and bone structures...

We're ALL the same. Everything in the universe.

reply to post by motheman980


.. I just googled David Wilcock and the guy I'm reading about is a new-age nutjob, not a real scientist. I assume that we must be talking about different people. Please link me to what you're talking about.

reply to post by Bunch


It would prove for one thing that there would be no need for affirmative action because the current differences in income and educate among the races would be in equilibrium to what they should be and not imbalanced by racial prejudice (which is the justification for policies to help better the average black education and income). It would mean massive changes in social, fiscal, and government policy.

reply to post by RedDragon


You must be naïve to think that affirmative action would go away just by this conclusions if its proven to be correct. I would see it going more to the other way because it will clearly show that since they are not equal then they should have and advantage.

It will create the mother of all government entitlements because we have to protect and make sure that the less able are taking care of and have a fair shot at making a living.

It will bring all kind of mandatory regulations for employment, contracting, services provided that would make affirmative action as we know it now seems like nothing.

Do you really and fully comprehend the implications of what this people are trying to push? I don't think so my friend.

Edit to add:

Not to mention scores of people rushing to government agencies to declare themselves physically disable and getting benefits, lawsuits brought on the grounds of brin discriminated against because of this for employment and all else that will come.

[edit on 12-11-2007 by Bunch]

reply to post by Bunch


That would entail communism which won't fly in the U.S.

Originally posted by AotearoaSon
Yes, it's easy to make an example when you don't include the link. I treacked it down and here is the following paragraph:

Hope this helps

Can I call you misguided yet?

While you were tracking it down... you might have considered looking on the second page of the OP's article in question... or did you read that far? It was from that page that I quoted; you'll note I stated "from article". You are quoting talkleft blog commentary from "Big Tent Democrat".

The paragraph that followed on page 2 read:

Race, many sociologists and anthropologists have argued for decades, is a social invention historically used to justify prejudice and persecution. But when Samuel M. Richards gave his students at Pennsylvania State University genetic ancestry tests to establish the imprecision of socially constructed racial categories, he found the exercise reinforced them instead.

Genetic ancestry tests reinforced socially constructed racial differences.

His question about the 100 meter dash was rhetorical and for emphasis. Big Tent Democrat tore it literally apart. That does not mean the truism does not stand.

also... a link to www.abovepolitics.com... ; Geneticist Says: Genetically, blacks aren't as intelligent (Update: Now Denies It)

Culture; race; genetic ancestry is a learned pattern of a societal breed or substructure. It is an ability to tie a special kind of knot that anyone of that substructure can tie with ease; but others outside of that substructure struggle to recreate. Each breed has their own knot. Each knot has its own purpose. The fine cloth of human society is made of many types of knots, patterned and woven to support one another.

Pomeranians make lousy attack dogs.

Call me misguided if you like.

Sri Oracle

Originally posted by RedDragon
reply to post by Bunch

 

That would entail communism which won't fly in the U.S.

I don't think you understand the difference between communism and government entitlement programs.

Government entitlements are used to help people that are in need because of some reason. Having a physical disadvantage qualifies people for some of this benefit, and trust me my wife works in the SSA, so I know what I'm talking about.

I don't even know why you even bring the communism aspect, the U.S. have been giving this benefits and legislated for people with physical disadvantages for years.

reply to post by Sri Oracle


Fair enough...I was confused, yes I did read the whole article, but in your quote it wasn't clear,,,my mistake and I apologise for it.

As far as calling you misguided, it was a (misguided?) attempt at humour...you asked for it, I called it...

You make a reasoned argument. Pleasing to see.

sorry for the misunderstanding

Originally posted by Bunch
Even if this is the case, then what it proves? What's the conclusion? What purpose does it serve? Where we go from here? Nothing will change, morons today will be morons tomorrow and smart people from today will continue to be that way tomorrow. That's my whole point with this issue of IQ and race, is irrelevant because it will not change anything not even the superioristic feelings, prejudice and stereotypes that are already in place.

What if 1 out of every 10,000 children had a gene that allowed them to understand advanced calculus at age 5.

If you knew your child had that gene; would you not be buying him calc books?

What if 1 out of every 5000 children had a gene that allowed them to bench press 3 times their own body weight by age 19.

If you knew your child had that gene; would you not get him some free weights in his early teens?

Why do potential differences in genetics amongst races have to be looked at negatively?

Each person should best develop their particular talents.

From each according to their ability. - Karl Marx

Sri Oracle

reply to post by Sri Oracle


Then what if the child has genes for nothing? What do you do then? Do you spend inefficient amounts of money to develop that child to what it would cost society hafl the amount to develop another child to twice that level?

It's evident that if you have to do that for millions of people that a massive amount of money is being wasted.

[edit on 11/12/07 by RedDragon]

reply to post by Sri Oracle


Because that's not what we need in this world, on what grounds we are going to alter and determine what a human being will do with his life at any given time on their life.

That will probably be the end of free will, because if I go to the lab and tell the doc that I want a superstrong son that can play in the NFL that does not mean that my son will wants to play football. If I want to have my son to have Einstein IQ that does not mean that he would like math. So who do I sue when my son drops out of school?

I'm all for preventing diseases and birth defects, but how far are we going to take this?

We as a race are balance enough to succeed and have come a long way by natural means.

May be is nature that does not wants to all be geniouses, or run 100 meter dash in 9 seconds, nature is about balance and counterbalance, for some reason we are not meant to be equal and that's not from race to race that across the entire living organism on planet Earth.

Somehow we got the knowledge to cure some diseases and make medications that work. We've came along way in biology and science and got a long way to go IMO. But whatever humans discover, it will be tried out one way or another. I bet ya, stem cell research is going on right now, but it's out of the media's eye and probably top secret now. DNA is a big deal and I just hope that humans don't mess it up and destroy us. But if there's a way to strengthen or amunity to diseases by altering our DNA then let's go for it. If there's a way to get rid of cancer then do it. I do hope they research the side affects if any and make it safe.

reply to post by Bunch


You could simply ask the doctor to encode genes that would create proteins that would form neural pathways in the brain that would make the child want to persue sports or persue an education. This could be done by raising or lowering testosterone levels (more testosterone = less likely to persue education, more likely to persue sports, less testosterone = less likely to persue sports, more likely to persue education) and other similar genetic modifications.

reply to post by RedDragon


So no free will is need it?

We are going to be genetically encoded since birth to be what someone else chooses for us.

That's just insane IMO, let's see,
so how we going to balance that out. What if all parents want their kinds to become actors, pro sports players, pop artist. Where our doctors, inventors and such are going to come from?

Then the government would have to regulate even that, and the result of that is communism and that won't fly in the U.S. As you said.

[edit on 12-11-2007 by Bunch]

reply to post by Bunch


We already have just the same amount of free will; we just don't know 100% how our children will end up. We are 100% products of genetics + envrionment.
Example: Our current president is the son of the president from 15 years ago. What do you think the odds of that are if everyone had free will?

[edit on 11/12/07 by RedDragon]

reply to post by RedDragon


I seriously don't understand where your going with this discussion. Everytime that I raise a serious concern or make a valid point you go out of your way not to tackle the issues at the core of this debate, which is really annoying and discourage further discussion.

We went from genetics studies to race to affirmative action and lastly to elections. I do get what your stance is so there is no need to go back and forth with this.

First of all, I believe many people should refresh yourselves upon the history of the human race as a whole. Have you forgotten that since the dawn of humanity one human has committed an atrocity upon another human? Not to mention upon every living thing humans come in contact with? Humans are like a virus. They consume everything and breed at an alarming rate. Mankind's history is filled with horrible things. Slaughtering each other, animals, consuming the Earth's resources at a rate that will not hold much hope for future generations.
My point is that as far as I can tell no one race displays any more or less intelligence than the other. Humanity created a device that can actually destroy itself and all life upon the planet. Nuclear bombs. This does not smack of intelligence. Quite the opposite. Look at the other beings on this planet who even Might have sentience "like us" as some would say: Dolphins and Whales. Yet, knowing this Could be possible, they are still slaughtered daily.
Now, on to the point of racial differences, some of you do not understand much it seems to me. Let us start with the "myths" and "pre-conceived" notions. I have read here talk of "asians are bad drivers", etc. These type of misconceptions are everywhere, and in every culture, no matter how untrue.
Most people wish to "down" or "degrade" African Americans or other groups in this way. The truth is, that these types of stereotypes are often misleading. Such as saying they are all thugs, or less intelligent, or all gang members. What happens is actually based upon geography, or where they live, how they grow up, etc. If you were raised in a very rough neighborhood, and everyone talked a certain way, and acted a certain way, you would be more pre-disposed to act that way,and talk that way as well. These stereotypes have nothing to do with intelligence of those peoples. It has to do with geographical living conditions and the prevalent "culture" of those around you. It is like saying all southerners are "rednecks". Ridiculous and incorrect.
Until this type of ignorant thought is done away with, we will always be at each other's throats. It seems to me, however that An individual can be good, and intelligent, while the "masses" are foolish and "bad". That too, is a generalization that may or may not be correct, but it is generally accepted as "true". Let us look at something. It has been said that almost all serial killers
are caucasian, at or over age 35 etc. So these "facts" should lead me to believe that all white folks are serial killers? Think about it. Even though this is quoted as "fact" you know full well that only a certain percentage of people are going to go out and kill a bunch of people for fun.
Humanity has a long way to go, and intelligence has little to do with your "race". DNA has already told us that there are no "pure" racial people any way. Go get tested, see what the results are upon yourself, then come back and argue this meaningless drivel.
Just my opinion.
Have an enjoyable day.

People have all these pointless debates about IQ, but how many Joe Blows of all races actually use that Holy Sacred IQ?

If IQ is so damn important, why most Eggheads are Employees of High School drop-outs?
And the genetic explanation for NEPOTISM? A Masonic gene?

I won a Gold medal in Geneva for my Kiosk-on-a-car Invention for the Paraplegic.

Did that make any change to Paraplegics?

No, because of, get this, Hi IQ people in my Country's Government!

[edit on 13-11-2007 by edgarinventor]

Originally posted by bizone
if those traits are not passed down through genetics, then why is there a consistent result on the statistics of intelligence and race.

Well, maybe 'cause you haven't shown proof of any of these "tests" that get performed all over the world even existing?

More importantly, their can be more gentetic differences between two white guys than between a white and a black guy.
So "race" doesn't really exist on a meaningful level genetically speaking.