Pentagon witness states they did not see what hit, were told later was a 757

Originally posted by jthomas

Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

So back to the question. How many more witnesses were told afterwords it was a 757 ?

Since that was announced over the news within the first 5 minutes of the event the answer would have to be virtually all of them.

That's incorrect. It was two hours, not 5 minutes.

Why are you making things up?

Prove it.

I can prove otherwise.

Originally posted by jthomas
So how would you go about identifying them?

As I mentioned before it is not necessary to identify the plane as a Boeing 757. The majority of witnesses identified a large passenger airliner as what they saw. If there were ever some reason the eyewitnesses would have to appear in court (I can't think why they would) the jury would weigh their testimony along with all of the other evidence. Since so many people describe essentially the same thing from so many different locations, I believe the probability is very high that their testimony would be deemed credible by a jury.

That's kind of irrelevant since I have a feeling you don't believe "official reports". Since we are talking about what information is available to us already, it makes it irrelevant whether there is any "official reports" anyway. So, back to the question: do you think we can conclude that American Airlines flight 77 hit the Pentagon with all that information already available to us?

In you investigation of identifying the wreckage, do you think you would need to have videos?


The question concerns what information is already available to us, not what may or may not be available to us. That raises the question if you are unaware of information that is already available.

Back on 9/11/2001 we did not have the DNA testing for DNA destroyed by heat. The NIST DNA experts had to come up with new testing just for 9/11. These test were not ready untill 2002 (after they had already identified all the bodies but 5)

In court any good lawyer would destroy the witnesses tetimony because they could not agree on what type of plane and due to some being told later what it was.

It is relevant because i am looking for the truth of what happened that day. We should be able to get this information through FOIA request, if they will not release it to the public.

Yes it would be nice to have the videos, since it could be used to verify any reports.

I am a data analyst with the government and have acess to a lot of resources, so far i can not find the reports and documnets we should have. Also i have FOIA request in to the following agencies.
FBI
NTSB
NIST
NSA (interagency request)

I have also e-mailed companies that were at ground zero, but they cannot answer a lot of questions due to the 9/11 lawsuits.

[edit on 10-11-2007 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1


In court any good lawyer would destroy the witnesses tetimony because they could not agree on what type of plane and due to some being told later what it was.

As I already explained the eyewitnesses would not have to identify it as a 757 and their testimony would be evaluated along with all the other evidence. I addition there are those who saw the wreckage during the recovery and cleanup effort.

As a matter of accuracy only one eyewitness said he was later told it was a 757 and it has no material effect on his sighting od a fast moving jet. It is consistent with the other testimony

Let me remind you that this is pretty clear that people described a large passenger airliner:

911research.wtc7.net...

I haven't seen your refutation of their statements.

Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT

Originally posted by jthomas

Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

So back to the question. How many more witnesses were told afterwords it was a 757 ?

Since that was announced over the news within the first 5 minutes of the event the answer would have to be virtually all of them.

That's incorrect. It was two hours, not 5 minutes.

Why are you making things up?

Prove it.

911research.wtc7.net...

Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT

Plus it is not my responsibility to prove what happened to the original plane and not being able to do so does not cancel out the evidence proving it didn't hit the building.

It is clearly you responsibility.

Anyone who discounts the evidence of the eyewitnesses both before and after the event, discounts the evidence of the wreckage, and claims Flight 77 overflew the Pentagon without any eyewitness evidence, must present evidence to what happened to Flight 77, how the bodies of passengers got into the Pentagon, how the wreckage of a 757 got into the Pentagon, how the many dispersed eyewitnesses could not have seen a "large passenger airliner with American Airliner markings" hit the Pentagon, and much, much more.

Unless you provide compelling evidence to say what happened to Flight 77 you are just engaging in speculation.

Originally posted by jthomas I addition there are those who saw the wreckage during the recovery and cleanup effort.

In reguards to the wreckage, why have we not seen any official reports that match any of the wreckage found that day to any of the 9/11 planes.

Also why did the FBI only spend 5 days on the Pentagon crime scene after stating it would take 30 days?

www.defenselink.mil...

WASHINGTON, Sept. 24, 2001 -- The FBI assumed crime-scene jurisdiction at the Pentagon terrorist attack site Sept. 21 from the Arlington County (Va.) Fire Department, officials said.

FBI officials estimate the crime scene investigation would last about a month, Arlington Fire Chief Edward P. Plaugher said. He said he expects "additional remains will be discovered during the course of the FBI investigation" and mortuary specialists will remain on site to process them.



WASHINGTON, Sept. 26, 2001 -- The FBI handed over Pentagon crash site management to the Army Military District of Washington at 7 a.m. today.

The transfer of responsibility marks the end of the FBI's crime scene investigation following the Sept. 11 terrorist attack against the Pentagon. MDW will oversee ongoing security operations around the damaged area of the building. FBI investigators will move their operations to the Pentagon's north parking lot and continue to sift through debris for more evidence.

Why are the 9/11 hijackings the only hijackings not to be investigated?

911research.wtc7.net...

The Pentagon BPS is the only government investigation of the crash of Flight 77 that admits to existing, but it was defined as and limited to an investigation of the performance of the building. There was no investigation into the crash by the National Transportation and Safety Board

[edit on 11-11-2007 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by jthomas
must present evidence to what happened to Flight 77, how the bodies of passengers got into the Pentagon, how the wreckage of a 757 got into the Pentagon, how the many dispersed eyewitnesses could not have seen a "large passenger airliner with American Airliner markings" hit the Pentagon, and much, much more.

Where are the reports stating the parts at the Pentagon are from a 757 or flight 77?

As far as bodies what evidence do you have they were at the Pentagon?

911research.wtc7.net...

Whether the aircraft that crashed into the Pentagon was Flight 77 is the subject of much question and controversy. Human remains of the people onboard Flight 77 were identified at Dover, but there is no public evidence that places the bodies at the Pentagon crash site.

[edit on 11-11-2007 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
typical truthiness

"We didn’t know what kind of plane had hit the Pentagon,


I don't think too many people could identify the type of jet liner it was at the speed it was going

this thread should be put right in the dumper

Do you know what kind of plane hit the pentagon? where is your evidence?

DO you have evidence based on other plane crashes where a similar amount of inertia and a similar loss of mass were involved?

I havent heard of any. I am not saying they dont exist, I am simply asking if you would be kind enough to present the evidence. Becasue if you can't present evidence that supports that you are correct and others are wrong, your opinion remains rather empty.

Respectfully, JP.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by jthomas I addition there are those who saw the wreckage during the recovery and cleanup effort.

In reguards to the wreckage, why have we not seen any official reports that match any of the wreckage found that day to any of the 9/11 planes.

You're going around in circles. I have already addressed this and asked you to address the questions posed to you:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by jprophet420

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
typical truthiness

"We didn’t know what kind of plane had hit the Pentagon,


I don't think too many people could identify the type of jet liner it was at the speed it was going

this thread should be put right in the dumper

Do you know what kind of plane hit the pentagon? where is your evidence?

Where is American Airlines Flight 77?

Originally posted by jthomas

Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT


Why are you making things up?

Prove it.

911research.wtc7.net...

Ahh so a conspiracy website that simply makes the statement and does not back up the claim is your "proof"?

Guess what?

Jim Hoffman is wrong.

Here is fox news reporting it at 9:43 so 5 minutes after the attack.




Since we hear them break for the wire it's clear that this information went out to all the news networks.

The notion that it took "most" of them 2 hours to report it is ridiculous.

Jim Hoffman is spreading mis or disinformation and you took the bait.

Originally posted by jthomas

Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT

Plus it is not my responsibility to prove what happened to the original plane and not being able to do so does not cancel out the evidence proving it didn't hit the building.

It is clearly you responsibility.

Anyone who discounts the evidence of the eyewitnesses both before and after the event, discounts the evidence of the wreckage, and claims Flight 77 overflew the Pentagon without any eyewitness evidence, must present evidence to what happened to Flight 77, how the bodies of passengers got into the Pentagon, how the wreckage of a 757 got into the Pentagon, how the many dispersed eyewitnesses could not have seen a "large passenger airliner with American Airliner markings" hit the Pentagon, and much, much more.

Unless you provide compelling evidence to say what happened to Flight 77 you are just engaging in speculation.

I have provided eyewitness evidence proving the plane did not cause the physical damage so I don't know what you are going on about.

Not a single eyewitness has been discounted.

I have spoken with dozens, interviewed many, canvassed for new ones, and heavily analyzed all that have been previously published by plotting their POV's and even documenting their locations with video and images.

How many witnesses have you spoken with?

Since the evidence I provide proves the plane did not hit the building it is YOURS and every other American's responsibility to demand answers from the government about what happened to tail #N644AA and all of the passengers that were allegedly on it after it disappeared at 8:56.

Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT

Since the evidence I provide proves the plane did not hit the building it is YOURS and every other American's responsibility to demand answers from the government about what happened to tail #N644AA and all of the passengers that were allegedly on it after it .

The government does not have to prove anything. The evidence is independent of any government. Evidence exists or doesn't. Evidence of what transpired on 9/11 came from independent sources.

Since the evidence from numerous sources, including independent eyewitnesses, does not support your hypothesis that Flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon, that leaves you alone to explain just what did happen to Flight 77. No one saw it flyover The Pentagon. No one tracked it on radar. No one saw it fly around the area after the event. No one saw it land.How did passengers, verified to have been on Flight 77, mysteriously end up as dead passengers in the Pentagon?

Please explain to us what actually happened to Flight 77. It is your responsibility alone to do that. Otherwise you are just engaging in speculation.



[edit on 11-11-2007 by jthomas]

Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT

Since we hear them break for the wire it's clear that this information went out to all the news networks.

The notion that it took "most" of them 2 hours to report it is ridiculous.

Jim Hoffman is spreading mis or disinformation and you took the bait.

And just who provided the information that a "large aircraft" hit the Pentagon?

That's right - the eyewitnesses.

So you have it backwards. The eyewitnesses were the source of the information - not the news networks.

originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT
Since the evidence I provide proves the plane did not hit the building it is YOURS and every other American's responsibility to demand answers from the government about what happened to tail #N644AA and all of the passengers that were allegedly on it after it disappeared at 8:56.

Your source is misleading Craig. Flight 77 disappeared from radar screens at Indianapolis Center at 8:56 a.m. but it was continuously on radar from other centers and other radar sources.

reply to post by Boone 870


Read the 9/11 commission.

They claim they had no idea where flight 77 was until just after 9:30.

Granted their story on this has changed but that only helps to prove a cover up.

Watch this presentation for a full breakdown on their changing story:

Google Video Link

reply to post by Craig Ranke CIT


That video doesn't change the fact that the recorded radar data shows that Flight 77 was being tracked after its transponder was turned off.

Originally posted by jthomas
You're going around in circles. I have already addressed this and asked you to address the questions posed to you:

No, you really did not address it. What questions have i not answered?

Originally posted by jthomas
How did passengers, verified to have been on Flight 77, mysteriously end up as dead passengers in the Pentagon?

Please explain to us what actually happened to Flight 77. It is your responsibility alone to do that. Otherwise you are just engaging in speculation.

The passengers were identified but there is no evidence they were at the Pentagon.

911research.wtc7.net...

Whether the aircraft that crashed into the Pentagon was Flight 77 is the subject of much question and controversy. Human remains of the people onboard Flight 77 were identified at Dover, but there is no public evidence that places the bodies at the Pentagon crash site.

Originally posted by Boone 870
reply to post by Craig Ranke CIT

 

That video doesn't change the fact that the recorded radar data shows that Flight 77 was being tracked after its transponder was turned off.

Prove it's showing flight 77.

According to the 9/11 commission they had no clue where flight 77 was.

You have not shown otherwise.

Originally posted by Boone 870
That video doesn't change the fact that the recorded radar data shows that Flight 77 was being tracked after its transponder was turned off.

You really need to do some research. Flight 77 did go off radar for several minutes.