Why its pointless trying to prove god

Well there was a thread I got with my "popular threads" email called proving god with logic and critical thinking. This guy said that since he feels happy when he's near a church god is real.....yah. First that has NO logic in it and had little if ANY thinking in it, let alone CRITICAL thinking.
But I regress, heres why its pointless trying to prove god.
A.) There is NO hard scientific evidence of any form of god.
B.) I've heard all the dumb arguments "Its written in creation" "God made it so only those who are willing to believe can see" Blah blah blah. Yet NOWHERE in any of those arguments does it say that its THEIR god. I could easily say "Its written in creation that (whatever god they don't believe in) made it and only those willing to believe can see it" And there goes they're whole argument. The fact is you can't prove god because he/she/it/zork (gender you cant even imagine!) doesn't exist. AND even if he/she/it/zork did exist YOU COULDN'T PROVE ITS YOURS. I see theists try and fail just trying to prove A god, can't wait to see them try to prove their god.
PS: They can't

My way of thinking is... we can't prove that we exist right now, so we can't prove anything.

The reason why we can't prove that we all actually exist is because our perception of the world is based on brainwaves.

How do we know the universe really exists when it could just be computer program sent to our brains (kind of like the matrix).

one guy I was talking to said "without belief in god you can't prove your not a brain in a jar" to which I said "even with belief you can't prove your not a brain in a jar"

"We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?"
-A brain in a vat (Sid Meiers Alpha Centauri) "termination of specimen advised."

Originally posted by curiousbeliever
My way of thinking is... we can't prove that we exist right now, so we can't prove anything.

If we are brains in a vat, then we are 'proving' the nature of the simulation, the reality of that particular system.

reply to post by melatonin


exactly....

well, thankfully we don't need to rely on philosophy and all of its intellectual masturbation

we have it's "bastard offspring" (as mel once put it), science

wow. my thread has really opened up the conversations around here. I think this is like the 5th spin off from my thread. And I think that's great.

I wanted to take the chance, proving that happiness is GOD. and that going to church can make you change and be happy and that equals to god. and that god controls all elements, like Air and Fire.

I've gotten comments saying I have no Logic or other, yet, I've taken numerous logic courses in college, etc. Basically, you say it's pointless to prove there's a god.

but what did jesus do? he preached the word of god and people believed him. now, did he prove that god existed? no. he could never do that, but people believed in him and he proved that god was real in the end, by ways of the bible. I am doing the same. I'm not saying i'm like jesus, but in A way i'm using his same principles and ideologies..that you should be happy and going to church may introduce you to god.

So i'm happy you guys are talking about this.


Jedimiller.

Originally posted by jedimiller
I wanted to take the chance, proving that happiness is GOD. and that going to church can make you change and be happy and that equals to god. and that god controls all elements, like Air and Fire.

HEY EVERYONE everything that makes you happy IS god. So I guess masturbation is god. And for the gays gay sex is god. For me headshots on UT3 are god. And if you EVER make ANYONE happy YOUR god.

Originally posted by jedimiller
I've gotten comments saying I have no Logic or other, yet, I've taken numerous logic courses in college, etc.

And slept through them?

Originally posted by jedimiller
Basically, you say it's pointless to prove there's a god.
but what did jesus do? he preached the word of god and people believed him. now, did he prove that god existed? no. he could never do that, but people believed in him and he proved that god was real in the end,

First off there is NO proof jesus existed and if he did, he's nothing like what the bible says. Seeing as how the bible was written DECADES after he died. Second if he was real he prolly just screamed "YOU'LL BURN IN HELL IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE" And scared a bunch of people, or just convinced the king (or whater the right word is) into believing it and BAM EVERYONE has to believe in it or else. He didn't prove god because everyone was too dumb back then to want proof, blind faith worked for them.

Originally posted by jedimiller
by ways of the bible. I am doing the same. I'm not saying i'm like jesus, but in A way i'm using his same principles and ideologies..that you should be happy and going to church may introduce you to god.

Plz prove god using the bible, come on lets see this magnificent proof.

Originally posted by Damien_Hell
HEY EVERYONE everything that makes you happy IS god. So I guess masturbation is god. And for the gays gay sex is god.

Thank god for the ignore button.

Originally posted by jedimiller
Thank god for the ignore button.

See what happens when you screw up a theists logic system? Its not that hard, you can do at home.

Originally posted by Damien_Hell
... let alone CRITICAL thinking.
But I regress,

I'm almost certain you meant to say digress, but with your sophomoric behavior so far in this thread I'm willing to stay open to the concept regress might be the more applicable word.

I believe in God and have no desire to even attempt to prove His existence. I'm okay with that...maybe you'll get okay with it too. After all, I'm not asking you to believe like me, I'm asking you to accept me with my beliefs.

[edit on 11-7-2007 by Valhall]

Originally posted by Valhall
I believe in God and have no desire to even attempt to prove His existence. I'm okay with that...maybe you'll get okay with it too. After all, I'm not asking you to believe like me, I'm asking you to accept me with my beliefs.

[edit on 11-7-2007 by Valhall]

Well I have a bunch of religious friends, the thing is we don't talk about religion, religion is a delusion. Either your delusional because you think you can prove it. Which ALOT of theists have admitted you can't or you delusional because you base you life on something you can't prove and know you can't.

reply to post by Damien_Hell



I know exactly what you mean. I have the same concept of people who state as fact there is no God.

It's okay...we'll both muddle through.

reply to post by Damien_Hell


Your absolutely right . Week after week, month after month a thread is started trying to proove the existence of God. I must emphasize at this point that I hold the highest repect for the members on here that are Christians. However I tend to view this subject a little differently than the norm. The fact of the matter is no one person on this planet can proove scientifically God Exists. One can make some interesting and valid arguements, that can really get you thinking. One can listen to testimony's story's and first hand experiences, but the fact remains there is no scientific/physical evidence to proove otherwise. This is the dead end for most right there.

Faith is not proof, faith is a virtue, and as the Bible say's is a gift from God. Not everybody believes and not every body disbelieve's. These discusion's never proove anything in the end.

They do however strike up some interesting conversation and thought. The arguement for God will go on, and rightfully so. And there will always be the disbeliever in the other corner ready to go to battle. This subject holds the same kind of stigma to it as the UFO phenomenon. You have your die hard believiers and your hard core skeptic in the other corner. One side says they exist and offer there burden of proof and then their are some that wouldn't believe, even if a disk landed in there front yard.

The burden of proof is not a constant. Each individual reserves there own judgement to what is enough proof. If Jedimiller believes he feels God in the air or spirit, then who is to say that he doesn't. Now I must say that I wouldn't have personally started a thread about it, but none the less his experience was real as he experienced it. The same can most likely go for most people of faith. Some thing, someone, some experience some where along there life convinced them enough that there is a God. Again this is why peolpe that are religious/believers are considered people of faith. It has nothing to do with science and everything to do with faith/beliefe.

I give props to Jedimiller and ones like him that venture into this realm. But to play devils advocate Jesus did say "don't cast your pearls before swine".

reply to post by highfreq


Yes faith is a virtue, its good to have faith. (Actually its impossible to function without faith(I'm not talking about religious faith, just faith in general)) BLIND FAITH though is not a virtue, its stupid, dangerous and is delusional. I have faith that I'm going to do well presenting a project tomorrow because I've worked on it and its well done. I don't have faith that we will mine pluto out of existence by 2300 because there is no evidence or reason to believe that. Just the same with religion no evidence or reason. So belief is in blind faith


[edit on 7-11-2007 by Damien_Hell]

Originally posted by Damien_Hell
So belief is in blind faith
[edit on 7-11-2007 by Damien_Hell]

people have experiences that seem very real to them, even though the way they interpret the situation isn't necessarily what actually happen in reality.

some people believe they were visited by aliens during the night and they couldn't move, thats how THEY interpreted the event. but maybe they just had a episode of sleep paralysis in conjunction with hallucination's (which apparently isn't uncommon in this state).

someone might think they of saw jesus under similar circumstances, or something happen to them, and the only way to explain the situation is using the supernatural.

if people experience such things, i think its a bit unfair to say that believing in what they interpreted the situation to be as "blind faith", opposed to a very convincing but incorrect analysis of a event.

i think you give "them" less credit than what they deserve, unless you know all of "their" life experiences that is.


[edit on 8/11/07 by cheeser]

I once woke up, couldn't move and my far wall was a beach, there was sand, women and I could feel the sun. This lasted till I fell back asleep. I have NO illusion that my wall is a beach, I would love if it was cause I live in Canada and its -10C outside, but I am 100% sure that its not. If I woke up and saw Jesus floating down, I wouldn't believe that it was Jesus, why? Because I JUST WOKE UP. I read comments about people seeing their god. RIGHT AFTER THEY WOKE UP. Odds are they're still asleep, and the end of the dream wakes them up. (like those bastard fall out of bed HAHA you were asleep dreams) If you see something you think is real, but your alone and in a state of possible mental comprimisation, anything you see, hear, feel etc that seems out of the ordinary should be viewed AS CRITICALLY AS POSSIBLE. And if your out in the open, mid-day feeling great etc etc, if you see, hear, feel etc etc anything out of the ordinary and none else notices it then you should prolly go see a doctor. IF though you can catch it on film thats a whole different story. And if you talk to god on a regular basis, your suffering from schizophrenia, seek help NOW.

God exists and there is nothing you can do about it.

reply to post by Dan5647


which one?
proof to back it up?

To me it makes no difference.
We, humanity, should be doing good to better ourselves for the sake of humanity itself rather than some promise of heaven or hell depending on if we have been bad or good.
It is more difficult when you consider all the varied "Gods"/"gods" we have to choose from since the beginning of recorded history to today.
Rather than waste time trying to prove the existence of God I prefer to live well and help others do the same. That is plenty for me and if there is a God, it should be plenty for that entity as well.

Existance of Gods/God...Hummm,...Gods are wishfull thinking at best...I have no problem with those who want to think otherwise,.....Those that are always asking if Gods are real...or prove it or something ,..they seem like the group that are unsure of themselves in this world......As long as there is money to be made and people to control...there will be plenty of Gods Words out there.....