Pyramid Building - ever notice the deliberate mistake ?

There's a lot of healthy debate covering the subject of pyramid-building (particularly at Gizeh in Egypt) ... a subject very close to my heart. But this got me wondering (what with all the interest - and in many cases intelligent dialogue), why I'd never found any comments about the most obvious ... in your face clue of all (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong), so I decided to post this thread to find-out what you think ... good ... bad ... or indifferent

Whilst researching the images I'd seen in the 'viewing screen' & information received from 'Khya' (see my other threads), I noticed a striking phenomenon regarding the structural diversity between 4th dynasty pyramids (Gizeh), and 5th-6th dynasty pyramids elswhere.

Let me explain;

The earliest pyramid builders got off to a bit of a shaky start in the 3rd dynasty e.g; Djoser's Step Pyramid at Saqqara and Sneferu's Bent Pyramid at Dashur.

But by the 4th dynasty they had pyramid-building down to a fine art. As can be seen with the breathtaking examples on the Gizeh Plateau.

Then for some 'inexplicable' reason, by the end of the 5th and throughout the 6th dynasty's ... it would appear that these superb structural engineers lost their touch The pyramids of these latter two dynasty's only remain today, as piles of indistinguishable rubble).

An analogy for this bizarre senario would be; Henry Ford producing his first motor cars. Then continuing over the years to make adjustments/refinements until his company reached the pinnacle of success with the modern-day top of the range models.

Then imagine if you will, the manufacturers of these streamline, aerodynamic cars, simply waking-up one morning ... having completely forgotten how to build them

So what do they do ?

They start turning-out carts made from wooden crates ... a piece of old rope ... and a couple of pram wheels !

I quite agree ... it sounds ridiculous and yet that is exactly what appears to have happened to the pyramid-builders

If this is so ... why did it happen ?

Well I think it's safe to assume (concidering how precise they were with all their mathematical calculations), that this was not a mistake ... nor do I believe they misplaced the instruction scrolls

To find a plausible explanation for this mystery, we have to be aware that 'ALL' ancient civilizations recorded their information symbolically, due to the domination of the right hemisphere of the brain in that era (the same applies to the bible ... good book ... never intended to be taken literally)! So with this in mind, we can start to unravel the symbolism of the pyramids.

In short, the ancient Egyptians were taught from the very beginning, by 'The Gods Who Walked The Earth As Men' ... (who were believed - by the ancients - to have come from the west of the skies, in their chariots of iron)

Everything was designed to relate the teachings of the 'Gods' to future man ... they made it very deliberate ... very precise ... very simple. It's our infernal left-brain logic that keeps the ancient simplicity out of reach to the modern majority Imagine for a moment the three phases of the ancients;

1. pre-history = right-brain activity = intuition = lunar influence (Orsirus)

2. fusion-phase = right/left brain balance = harmonious society = lunar/ solar influence (Orsirus/Re ... Amun Re)

3. end of the 'first time' = left-brain becomes dominant = logic = solar influence (Re)

I believe this information was 'hidden in plain sight' via the pyramids.

1. The Great Pyramid (Gizeh), symbol of the 'fusion-phase' ... measurments and alignments built into the stonework, secrete relevent details of science/astromomy/mathematics etc. This does seem to imply that the builders 'knew' that these structures would stand the test of time so that it might be read like a book of stone, by future generations.

Unlike the pyramids of the 5th-6th dynasty's ...

Have to respond to this in detail later on. One question though: Did you come up with this or is it based on something else?

I have no real input on the subject, but to say that I've always been facinated by the building of the pyramids! I'm glad to see that you mention you have previous post on this subject. I'll read all of them some time soon.

Maybe I'll do some research on the subject and have some of my own input. As for what this information will do for my future in life? Nothing, therefore this is a low priority in my life.

Peace my friend!

Well it could be that there was a genius in the 170 IQ plus range that helped them to perfect their pyramids and after his death that knowledge quickly disappeared or wasn’t comprehendible anymore.

Knowledge had a way back then to come and go, but a single super genius at the right time to have actually pushed the human race forward at a accelerated rate for a short time.

With your car analogy this would be a case of Mr. Ford making cars and then no one made any for a long time after he died and his knowledge was lost.


[edit on 5-11-2007 by Xtrozero]

reply to post by woodwytch


... you see, there is one very specific difference between the 4th dynasty pyramids and those of the latter two dynasty's ... and this inconsistency took place during their construction

The Great pyramid has (without exception), not a single authentic heiroglyph inside any of its chambers. Only one heiroglphic cartouche, that supposedly bears the name of Khufu is so obviously not the work of a skilled stonemason ... more like the graffitti you would see carved into the wall of a public toilet. The text is embedded in the stonework

However, the fundamental difference found within the later pyramids is a truly spectacular display of heirogliphs and wall art, literally from floor to ceiling ... inside the subteraneous chambers ... which survived the crumbling ground-level architecture

I don't know what you think but to me this is a strong and plausible indication that the ground-level structures were never designed to last.

What a perfect way to impart the knowledge that the 5th-6th dynasty's did indeed indicate the 'end of the first time' ... when the Gods no longer walked the Earth as men.

Extremely clever don't you think ? Not to mention logical

Im very interested in this topic however, the only input I can provide is based on a program I saw produced by the BBC. A team some ten years ago or so tried to construct a scaled down version of a pyramid using the tools they believed were used back in the day (I will need to find the details of the program to know which period). They actually struggled and I believe (from what I remember) failed miserably.

Now, I would have assumed that based on modern mans supposed superior intellect compared to the ancients, they would have been able to do this no problem. Well, you may argue that the pyramids were built by thousands (even millions) of slaves. Well, according to research and excavations (I will dig up the references and post them up later) it is believed that the work force were very well looked after and some where highly skilled craftsmen.

I will look for the information now and post up the references =]

You mean the pacer, the gremlin, and the packard? You are right OP, they woke up one morning from a night of hard '___', or something.

Jeez you guys are fast ... I had hoped to get the last bit of the thread posted before anyone had noticed it was even there.

Sky ... look forward to your contribution

MrMysticism ... was initially confused as to the relevence of the last couple of lines in your post ... then I read your signature and it all made sense sure you'll be back when you've done your research ... feel much feedback coming this way.

Extrozero ... Personally I don't think it had anything to do with a 'single super genius' ... but who knows ?
As for the car analogy ... it was what it was ... a theoretical example of technological ability 'appearing' to go backwards - perhaps you read too much into it, I wasn't implying that Ford held sway over the life/death of the entire car industry.

ROFL....The pacer was the most singular advance in automotive history. HEE HEE Ha! I think I get ya OP.

the earliest pyramids were built from the very best materials available because the Power of Pharoah at that time was total

later pharoahs didn't have anywhere near as much power or wealth so had to use whatever materials they could lay their hands on. this is the reason that many later structures were constructed with the dismantled remaind of earlier ones

or to follow your analogy
Henry Ford producing his first motor cars. Then continuing over the years to make adjustments/refinements until his company reached the pinnacle of success with the modern-day top of the range models.

Then imagine if you will, the ford motor company went bust and struggled for a while using tin to construct the chassis and wood to construct the wheels instead of expensive rubber. Uisng old newspaper to pad the seats and clay rubbed on for colour instead of paint

this is actually what happened and this evidence is well attested in the Egyptological record without the need for Gods, Psychology or anything else

reply to post by rapturas


I saw that program ... the good old ... ramps ... rollers ... A-frames ... squeezy bottles ... yoghurt cartons and sticky-backed plastic routine.

And when they fail dismally with a scaled down version ... they rely on the one they made earlier just as a mini digger comes into view (side screen).

I must have mellowed in the last ten years because I used to watch them things and start shouting at the TV.

Im still trying to locate the documentary I mentioned (bbc), looks like it may have been PBS Nova but im still searching so could be wrong, blame my poor connection speed =[

Heres some info on the ‘slaves’

The Greek historian Herodotus tells us that the Great Pyramid was built by 100,000 slaves who 'laboured constantly and were relieved every three months by a fresh gang'. He is, however, wrong. King Khufu - 4th Dynasty ruler of Egypt - the royal responsible for the commissioning of the Great Pyramid, did not have a vast body of slaves at his disposal, and even if he had, there was no way that 100,000 could work simultaneously on one pyramid.
This gives a total of 20-25,000, labouring for 20 years or more. The workers may be sub-divided into a permanent workforce of some 5,000 salaried employees who lived, together with their families and dependents, in a well-established pyramid village. There would also have been up to 20,000 temporary workers who arrived to work three- or four-month shifts, and who lived in a less sophisticated camp established alongside the pyramid village.
www.bbc.co.uk...

Here they received a subsistence wage in the form of rations. The standard Old Kingdom (2686-2181 BC) ration for a labourer was ten loaves and a measure of beer...
...These were supplies which would not keep fresh for long, so we must assume that they were, at least in part, notional rations, which were actually paid in the form of other goods - or perhaps credits. In any case, the pyramid town, like all other Egyptian towns, would soon have developed its own economy as everyone traded unwanted rations for desirable goods or skills. The temporary labourers who died on site were buried in the town cemetery along with the tools of their trade.

…Again investigations are still in progress, but Mark Lehner has already discovered a copper-processing plant, two bakeries with enough moulds to make hundreds of bell-shaped loaves, and a fish-processing unit complete with the fragile, dusty remains of thousands of fish. This is food production on a truly massive scale, although as yet Lehner has discovered neither storage facilities nor the warehouses.

And sorry for the cut and paste job, i can onlt form my opinions on what i had seen on TV and what i have read =/

edit: ooops sorry didnt see your post woodwytch, glad you saw it, for a bit i thought i was either in need of a memory upgrade or going insane lol

[edit on 5-11-2007 by rapturas]

reply to post by kerkinana walsky


Interesting kerkinana, but I notice you didn't mention the lack of glyphs in the Great Pyramid or the artwork in the subteraneous chambers of the later structures

If you haven't done so already, you should check out Scott Creighton's board. It's all about the Pyramids, specifically those at Giza. He's got his own theories about the them and why they were built which are very interesting imo. He's quick to answer any questions too.

reply to post by woodwytch



the artwork and hieroglyphs that appear in later pyramids are all from the Egyptian book of the dead which is a series of rituals concerning death and the afterlife.

these weren't invented in Egypt until the 5th dynasty. i.e. the one after the Gizamids. you failed to notice that none of the earlier pyramids (which were also shoddier as several have collapsed) also contain no glyphs or artwork and their construction techniques show a learning curve which led to the pyramids at Giza. you also seem unaware that the brother of Khufu, Djedefre decided not to build at Giza and had his pyramid built several miles north of Giza at Abu Roash. It has also collapsed.

The pyramid building adventure of the Egyptians didn't last too long as they noticed that building a big structure for a dead pharoah was like skywriting "get it here" for tomb robbers. There are egyptian court records that attest to this. this is the reason that later kings were buried in tombs. It has nothing to do with a lack of technology or Gods walking the earth.



instead of reaching for pseudohistoric ideas why don't you just study the data collected already. You'll find yourself frustrated far les often

Ah Kerkinana ! You might be surprised to discover that I DO know that the Egyptian Book of the Dead is a collectin of funerary rituals ... and that they weren't 'invented' as you so quaintly put it until the 5th dynasty. A little like the guy who picked holes in my Ford analogy ... you also seem to have missed the whole concept of the thread. Maybe you're not on the same page yet !

For your benefit I will recap briefly that the point I was actually making was not about the specific content of artwork/heiroglyphs ... but rather the relevence to the fact that there was no such decoration in the Great Pyramid etc etc etc (if your not sure just read it again to save me having to repeat the same things.

As above ... if you read my thread properly before ripping what you only 'think' I mean to shreads ... you will also see that I mentioned the earlier pyramids being a learning curve.

On your next point I think you've presumed wrongly again ... after more than a decade of research into Ancient Egypt (both othodox and esoterical data), I am fully aware that Djedefre was not buried at Gizeh ... but you seem to be unaware that Khufu was his father ... not his brother, that position was held by Khafre

I'm not sure why you would think I might get frustrated with my ... 'pseudohistoric ideas' as you put it ... because to date there is as much chance of the more liberated theories being proven correct, as there is anything any convetional 'expert' has come up with so far. Sometimes we need to step outside of that nasty, rigid box that people like you tend to use like a comforter.

A quick tip to prevent you embarrassing yourself in the future ... before you attempt insulting anyone else (in both cyber/real world) ... or you decide to dismiss someones opinion with such sweeping pomposity ... at least have the commonsense to check your facts before posting your reply.

Finally, have you come across a guy/girl here called 'Timelike' ? If not you should trawl the ATS threads and seek him/her out ... think you'd have a lot to share with one another ... same wavelength and all that

The finest piece of dismissal I will ever read. I'm breathing hard.

Originally posted by woodwytch
An analogy for this bizarre senario would be; Henry Ford producing his first motor cars. Then continuing over the years to make adjustments/refinements until his company reached the pinnacle of success with the modern-day top of the range models.

Then imagine if you will, the manufacturers of these streamline, aerodynamic cars, simply waking-up one morning ... having completely forgotten how to build them

So what do they do ?

They start turning-out carts made from wooden crates ... a piece of old rope ... and a couple of pram wheels !

Fun thing, its already happened

We made more and more streamlined cars, converted their metal shape into lightweight plastics and even started adding airbags inside them to make em safe. We went from REALLY heavy duty 5m long cars with little practical use to small and light 3m cars.

Then of course, the SUV, aka city jeep, came.

2 ton+ monsters that's supposed to be driven in *cities* that will OBLITERATE any small car they crash into, rendering safety concerns for others moot all while producing 3x the pollution with 3x the fuel gurgling power.

Why? Money of course. Chances are high the same thing happened to the Egyptians, except in the case of Pharaoh not having the resources to repeat the feat at Gizah.

Howdy Woodwytch

because to date there is as much chance of the more liberated theories being proven correct, as there is anything any convetional 'expert' has come up with so far. Sometimes we need to step outside of that nasty, rigid box that people like you tend to use like a comforter.

Why are your theories considered 'liberated'?

No actually not, the state you descrbe as a 'rigid box' you seem to hate so much is evidence based reality. Your idea are nice but lack a basis in fact, and seem to be based on a good knowledge of fringe writings instead of the factual MS information.

The Great pyramid has (without exception), not a single authentic heiroglyph inside any of its chambers.

Sorry WW but there are a number of them, the famous quarry marks in the relieving chambers. By authentic I presume (?) you are bringing up the long dead Sitchin theory?

The authenticity of these masons' markings has been challenged by Zecharia Sitchin, who argues that they were forged by Vyse and his assistants in the hope of gaining fame and fortune. He claims that the hieroglyphs are ungrammatical and misspelt (with the sign for 'ra', the supreme god of Egypt, being written instead of 'kh'), that the cursive script in which they were written dates from a later era, and that they were copied (complete with mistakes) from standard contemporary works on hieroglyphics. This argument has been repeated by several other writers, including Graham Hancock (though he has since rejected the forgery theory), Eric von Däniken, and Colin Wilson. However, Martin Stower has conclusively demonstrated that Sitchin's account is a mish-mash of inaccuracies and misrepresentation; the claimed misspelling is simply untrue, and cursive script dates back to predynastic times

There are also marks of studs having been placed on the inner walls of the pyramids, it is thought that wooden panels were installed.

reply to post by woodwytch


I always thought this was because of Imhotep



en.wikipedia.org...



Imhotep

(sometimes spelled Immutef, Im-hotep, or Ii-em-Hotep, Egyptian ii-m-ḥtp *jā-im-ḥatāp meaning "the one who comes in peace") was an Egyptian polymath,[1] who served under the Third Dynasty king, Djoser, as chancellor to the pharaoh and high priest of the sun god Ra at Heliopolis.

He is considered to be the first architect and physician in history known by name [2]. The full list of his titles is: Chancellor of the King of Lower Egypt, First after the King of Upper Egypt, Administrator of the Great Palace, Hereditary nobleman, High Priest of Heliopolis, Builder, Chief Carpenter, Chief Sculptor and Maker of Vases in Chief. Imhotep was one of very few mortals to be depicted as part of a pharaoh's statue. He was one of only a few commoners ever to be accorded divine status after death. The center of his cult was Memphis. From the First Intermediate Period onward Imhotep was also revered as a poet and philosopher. His sayings were famously referred to in poems: I have heard the words of Imhotep and Hordedef with whose discourses men speak so much.

www.mnsu.edu...

Imhotep was a poet, an architect and physician-priest. He wrote many medical and didactic texts. He is best known, however, as the chief architect of the step pyramid at Saqqara. It remains today as one of the most brilliant architecture wonders of the ancient world. During the New Kingdom, Imhotep was deified and became the "Son of Ptah." The Romans Claudius and Tiberius inscribed their praises of Imhotep in the temples in Egypt.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Imhotep (2667 BC - 2648 BC)

Imhotep was chief architect to the Egyptian Pharaoh Djoser (reigned c.2630 - c.2611 BC). He was responsible for the world's first known monumental stone building, the Step Pyramid at Saqqara and is the first architect we know by name.

A commoner by birth, Imhotep's intelligence and determination enabled him to rise through the ranks to become one of Djoser's most trusted advisors, as well as the architect of the pharaoh's tomb, the Step Pyramid.

Imhotep's influence lived on well after his death. In the New Kingdom he was venerated as the patron of scribes, personifying wisdom and education. In the 'Turin Papyri' from this period he is also described as the son of Ptah, chief god of Memphis, in recognition of his role as a wise councillor.

During the Late Period his veneration extended to deification and he became a local god at Memphis where he was glorified for his skills as a physician and a healer. He is said to have extracted medicine from plants and treated diseases such as appendicitis, gout and arthritis. At Memphis he was served by his own priesthood and he was considered to be an intermediary between men and the gods. It was believed that he could help people solve difficulties in their daily lives and cure medical problems.

When the Greeks conquered Egypt they recognised in him attributes of their medicine god Asclepius, and continued to build temples to him. His reputation lasted until the Arab invasion of North Africa in the seventh century AD.