Input on the real Holocaust.

reply to post by tankthinker


Well how about you actually put forth your information from your "superior" sources then? So far all we're seen is opinion with no backing. (outside of queen putting up her .02)

Stay on topic and dont attack eachother. Thats why these threads never last...that and rediculous personal bias'

well obviously I cant reveal this source, and its not exactly open to the public or things would be different. I guess its a hard situation of trusting my oppinion, but i can assure you ive never BS on ATS (and dont intend to)

reply to post by tankthinker


Right so let me get this straight. You come to ATS, a site dedicated to exposing the truth, regardless of how shocking or horrific it is. You claim you have a source of information, and that this information relates to the holocaust and would change the way the world looks at WWII and the holocaust. Then you say you cant reveal this information or the source, but we should trust you that its big?

Come on!

Many of us here have seen this before, "ive got something important to tell you that will change the world!" "Oh, but i cant tell you where i got this info from, nor can i tell you the acutal information. But trust me, its big!"

you say you've never BS'ed here before, well im calling BS on you, right now!

this info would not change the worlds view because no one would believe it, thats the way "they" want it

i can absolutely see your point though, if i was in you position i would say the same.

but perhaps a person has taken vows not to reveal certain info, would you ask that person to break those vows.

Seeing as no one has called you on this yet, ill go first.

Originally posted by tankthinker
want to know the truth not supposed to be known, only about 20,000 jews died during the holocaust,

Really? So where did all those NAZI records come from? Who forged them (if thats what your implying)? For what purpose? What about all the bodies found after the holocaust? Who put them there? Why? Where did they come from? Who killed them? What about the others that were killed, millions of political dissenters, homosexuals, roma, pols, etc? Were those numbers fudged as well?

the cause of exaguration, id rather not tell.

Why dont you want to share? What could possibly stop you? You've come this far as to make the claim, why not continue?

Originally posted by tankthinker
this info would not change the worlds view because no one would believe it, thats the way "they" want it

Thats a bit of a contradiction. It would change the world because no one would believe it. Did you mean, "At first, no one would believe it, but in the end it would change the world"?

i can absolutely see your point though, if i was in you position i would say the same.

Good, than you can prepare yourself for the next round of skepticism

but perhaps a person has taken vows not to reveal certain info, would you ask that person to break those vows.

If the information you say you possess is that important, doesnt the world have a right to know?

Originally posted by tankthinker
but perhaps a person has taken vows not to reveal certain info, would you ask that person to break those vows.

No I wouldn't. I would also expect that person wouldn't throw out a teaser to inflame what they couldn't break their vow about. I am detecting a certain odor myself.

reply to post by intrepid


Im glad its not just me. Its not like we havent seen this type of action before on ATS. Im not even an old member and ive seen this at least 2 times before.

Originally posted by queenannie38
Personally, I don't have too much of a problem with that figure, for much the same reason as you. As well, at this point in time, it is still very difficult for even the most dedicated researchers to truly clarify.

Actually for a dedicated researcher it is very easy, especially since the early '90s when the Soviet archives were made available. Since this time the numbers have been significantly ratified - most notably those relating to Madjanek and Auschwitz.

Originally posted by queenannie38
The deaths in the camps, however, were caused by multiple factors including disease and starvation. The most startling numbers come from the period at the very end of the war and were largely a result of typhus epidemics and starvation. The majority of horrible pictures that have been shown of the death camps were taken by allied forces when they entered to liberate the prisoners and by that time, the number of victims of starvation and disease were very great.

This is certainly true, many did die at the end of the war due to starvation and disease. From the very beginning people died of starvation, in fact if you were to study the information available you will realise that this was a direct result of "non-planning" an SS speciality. The chief cause of death from the beginning involved minimal rations combined with back-breaking work. Very few people have the physical stamina to survive long, especially when that is combined with the brutality that was meted out by the Kapos.

Originally posted by queenannie38
The preferred method of exterminating prisoners seems to have been by gunshot - often at the edge at the grave into which they would then be buried, en masse..

This was not the preferred method for killing inmates, as I have just stated the preferred method was through work and starvation. The mass shootings were primarily utilised by the Einzatsgruppen (A through D) in the manner that you describe. This was found not only to be too labour intensive but the SS felt that it was actually beneath them to act with such brutality. Following numerous complaints from within the Wehrmacht, Waffen-SS and the Einzatsgruppen themselves, Himmler requested that the Euthanasia Programme (T4) investigate mre "humane" methods of extermination. His prime concern however was not for the victims themselves but for the effect it was having on the morale of the men.

Originally posted by queenannie38
The starvation was in part due to the excessive allied bombings over the areas in which the camps were located; this precluded the Red Cross from continuing their relief efforts of aerial drops of food and medical supplies to help care for the prisoners. ..

It has been confirmed that most Red Cross parcels did actually reach the camps, this has been confirmed by those who worked in the camps who admit appropriating the parcels for their own consumption and for sale on the burgeoning black market.

Just study the liberation photos - do the camp guards appear to be starving to you? Corruption and greed were the Nazis great undoing.

Originally posted by queenannie38
Typhus is caused by lice and one of the efforts to prevent this in the death-camps was the initial shower upon entrance to the camps. Most people assume that people disembarking from the trains were summarily led to gas chambers disguised as showers to be exterminated, but this has been questioned by investigations in recent years. Also, cyanide was used extensively to treat lice infestation at the time, before the safer treatments that are presently used were discovered. Piles of clothing and rags were gassed in order to remove lice...

The investigations that have questioned this, have without exception, have been proven to be based on false information and provide no scientific proof.

On arrival at Auschwitz and Chelmo, the inmates were lined up and selected for either work detail or extermination. The evidence available is without ambiguity. Those selected for work detail were not deloused. There are countless eyewitnesses, both SS, Jewish, non-Jewish who recount their experiences of working within the extermination process.

Originally posted by queenannie38
It is somewhat difficult to find objective information on cyanide gas independent of the death-camp issue.

Only the truly ignorant will use Zundel and Rudolf as a source of information. Their research is fatally flawed by bias and bigotry, it certainly has little basis on reality, as your statement above confirms. There is plenty of information about the toxicity of cyanide gas - independent and otherwise - try searching under Prussic Acid or hydrogen cyanide. It is highly poisonous and a very unpleasant way to die.

IG Farben Leverkusen produced the Zyklon B which was sold to the SS via the Bayer sales office at Degusch. These sales represented two-thirds of Degusch overall business and in quantity was represented enough to kill 200 million human beings. If this was only being used to delouse the camp populace, why did they all die of typhus when there was obviously a surfeit of the product. If they weren't using it to delouse what were they doing with it?

When interrogated in 1945 IG Farben director von Schnitzler was asked what his reaction was when he learned that Zyklon B was being used to murder people at Auschwitz. He said "I was horrified...I kept it to myself because it was too terrible...I asked Muller-Cunradi is it known to you and Ambros and other directors in Auschwitz that the gases and chemicals are being used to murder people...it was known to all IG directors at Auschwitz."

It is good to question the accepted history, there is much that has been concealed about the causes and consequences of WW2 and the holocaust itself, but the SS machinery WAS responsible for the industrialised killing and disposal of at least 2.7 million Jews. Millions more Jews and non-Jews died from starvation, brutality, killing squads, carbon monoxide poisoning, experimentation, disease, slave labour etc etc etc etc etc.

The far more interesting question that should be asked is WHY?

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
Seeing as no one has called you on this yet, ill go first.

Originally posted by tankthinker
want to know the truth not supposed to be known, only about 20,000 jews died during the holocaust,

I just ran straight passed this one - like you I had tried to ignore this thread (How many times!!??)

tankthinker

If you want to walk away from this with any credibility you need to at least outline this information - you don't have to give your sources although it will aid your case - but you must expand upon it, otherwise it is just sad, sad sensationalism.

Everyday on ATS people with integrity and bravery put their wild ideas into words for us to dissect and discuss, why not you? Do you think that you are special?

Come on show some balls.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


Exactly, i just dont get it. How can you claim such a finite number of jews were murdered, contrary to historical evidence, while offering no statements or facts to back it up?

Good to see you joined this thread, your insight and knowledge into this troubling time in our history is much appreciated, starred.

im not really in a position to reveal all i know, to dangerous,

anyway the thread talks about the real holocaust, i did talk about, what i "could" say, but since im in so much doubt, and again im not in a position to reveal more info or my sources, i want everyone to do one thing

forget what i posted, forget youve ever heard it, i can only say what im allowed and can provide no more answers, so just by pass it and move on to other topics. Sorry for baiting you on, i just thought the truth would be appreciated.

Originally posted by tankthinker
forget what i posted, forget youve ever heard it, i can only say what im allowed and can provide no more answers, so just by pass it and move on to other topics. Sorry for baiting you on, i just thought the truth would be appreciated.

The truth is appreciated, very much so.

You're not baiting don't worry...just keep taking the medication and we won't mention it again.

Originally posted by tankthinker
Sorry for baiting you on, i just thought the truth would be appreciated.

Well at least we have an admission of "baiting" I recommend that you don't do that again. As to it being too dangerous for you to go into further detail? BS. Canada doesn't have any laws against holocaust deniers. I know, I live in the same province you do.

reply to post by intrepid


For some reason, i believe s/he was alluding to some more sinister danger than holocaust laws. I dont understand how this person is able to release a figure (20,000 jews dead) but not be able to release one iota more than that. Talk about baiting...

All three of us live in the same province, hell i live one city over from him/her (mississauga)

Originally posted by tankthinker
i just thought the truth would be appreciated.

It would have been. What also would have been appreciated was an answer to any of the questions i posted. But i guess your moving on, so i guess i will too.

Hi, I'd like to contribute to this thread about the holocaust. When I was in 7th grade, my school taught us about the holocaust. They had a holocaust surviver come and speak to us kids about his experience. The individual who spoke to us had tatoo's that he was given against his will by his captors. His story was really touching, so much that when I got home I told my mother about it. She told me about a friend of hers who's father was a U.S. soldier in WWII who took part in liberating concentration camps. Because I was interested in learning more, she arranged a visit. The most memorable part of it all was that she (my mom's friend) had actual photographs from the death camp, taken by her father. There were about 32 pictures and they were actual photographs not copies or out of a magizine or anything, they were the real deal. Me being a 7th grader seeing those photo's it really affected me. After hearing that Holocaust surviver's speech to us young kids, and seeing those 32 photographs, I had a very different understanding of just how horrible WWII was.

Originally posted by tankthinker

im not really in a position to reveal all i know, to dangerous,

Your kidding us, right. So far all you shown us was how little you actually know. There is an old saying that a little knowledge is dangerous, but I'm sure there is a threshold to meet this requirement. I would venture a guess and say your safe.

Originally posted by tankthinker

forget what i posted, forget youve ever heard it...

Not a problem, I'll even forget you. As far as I concerned.. EOM

There was part of the very first opening post of this thread where the writer actually asked a question which no one has answered or no one cut and pasted a response. This is an actual question so I will answer it.

Originally posted by ullnevernoe
I don't know what happened to Hitler and Stalin at the beginning of the war, but they broke ties really early. Why????

I will only provide you the name of the treaty and you do the foot work. This way, you can actually learn some real history. It's the Treaty of Non-aggression between Germany and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics also called the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. This is your starting point. Now go learn....

Trust me the law is the least of my worries, but ive already attracted too much attention to myself, so ill stop posting on this thread. Im a he by the way and i dont take medication (dull attack, you could have come up with something better), i have a whole thread on Natural Cures.

also about me trying to use this info to help the world... that would depend on whos side im on, (im not with the normal, stuck up populace, ive choosen higher "company")

[edit on 6-11-2007 by tankthinker]