Why I know God Exists.

Skunky

I like your questions, but this thread is flying fast. I use the term lucky with tounge in cheek to mean "it's not luck", it's God.

I'll re-ead your question and reply in a sec.

Hopefully.

Originally posted by Skunky
I would expect a more reasoned analysis from a moderator of a web forum such as this.

F.Y.I. the title doesn't say "All knowing moderator". Just "forum moderator." My opinions are as valid or invalid as the next guy's and my opinion is only superior concerning the forum rules and regulations. (Which I said nothing about in this topic)

I didn't say that unbelievers suffer more, but that some people need a louder voice. That goes for believers as well. Believers are no better than unbelievers in God's sight. That is, they are not loved more or less. I don't think that has any bearing on the issue.

Originally posted by Skunky
reply to post by dbates

 

You seem to be suggesting that pain is God's way of making a point, drawing our urgent attention to him in some way. A loving creator wresting life and happiness from a cancer patient just to attract their attention? Pain is the best way our heavenly father has of attracting the attention of those that do not hear his 'pleasurable' whispers (i.e. those without faith)? Are you suggesting people suffer at the hands of God because they do not believe in him? I would expect a more reasoned analysis from a moderator of a web forum such as this.

I am not under a remote control, or operating under a safety net. The Pain is mine. God does not put me in any danger to make a point. I put myself in danger because I'm not careful.

God steps in and makes shure I don't die because I have a family to care for, people too meet and talk with such as yourself. I'm kept alive for his purposes, but it's a good life. I am not running in pain from searching for fixes and pleasures that many try in order to find meaning and comfort, because my comfort is in him. And in my family , my co-workers, ect...

I will not try to explain why people get hit by cars. Why are drunk drivers allowed to exist? We live in the world we have chosen.

My goodness,

Did you say what about those that suffer under the Hands of God? Who is this? Who is suffering under the hands of God.

I know nobody.

Do you?

reply to post by dbates


You are a believer yet you have a tattoo?
Please explain to me how does that not break Gods law?

I can explain why it does...

Lev 19:28

"You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor tattoo any marks on you: I am the LORD." Lev 19:28

Not judging youor anything dude. But whats even funnier is its a tatto of a cross.

reply to post by ChronMan


This gets complicated so fast, but I knew this was a can of worms.

The tatoo bit is from Leviticus I beleive. It is the Law of the Jews, God's chosen people. Is He a Jew? The Law we cannot keep, It was meant as such.

Besides, this thread is degrading I believe. His tatoo has nothing to do with why He or Myself Believe God Exists.


[edit on 5-11-2007 by jaywoo]

reply to post by jaywoo


Did you not see the part where it says "I am the LORD"?
Meaning God was speaking. That was/is GOD's Law, not the law of isrealites.

There is also verses that speak on respecting and keeping the body clean. Doesn't a tattoo add toxins into the body?

Its not in Gods favor, pointblank. But I am only speaking from what the bible says. It also speaks of repentence for sins and God being merciful. Now if you can't realize a sin, how can you repent from it?





[edit on 5-11-2007 by ChronMan]

reply to post by ChronMan


Why so disgruntled Dbates Tatoo? What point are you trying to make, honestly? What does it have to do with this thread?

My gosh this irks me. Dont many people try to "save" people? (I do not). What if he had the Tatoo before he found God? Is he to scrape it off? Does it offend you? Is he in your congregation? Does his Tatoo offend them? Do you wish him to get it ground off because he is giving us Christians a bad image?

I have not been to church in over 5 years because of this type of attitude.

You Chastized him, I chastized you. I hate this. This is why so few can find Christ anymore.



[edit on 5-11-2007 by jaywoo]

[edit on 5-11-2007 by jaywoo]

reply to post by ChronMan

It just says not to put a tattoo on youself. That means that you should have a professional do the job. As it turns out I'm quite the rebel. Not only do I have a tattoo, I even go as far as to cut my hair and beard.

27 " 'Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.

Seriously, read, Acts chapter 15 if this bothers you.

Okay, please try to keep the topic on track. If you know why God exists, or wish to debate the proof given speak up. Start another thread on tattoos if you're interested in the subject.




[edit on 5-11-2007 by dbates]

Originally posted by jaywoo
Did God save my best friend from High School from dying in a car accident on his wedding night?

No.

Why?

I don't know. But he did not. He was twice the believer i am.

I would imagine the answer to the "why" question is because heaven is a much cooler pad than earth is. Everyone talks about death being the end of the world. To a believer, it's only the beginning. Forever is a long time.

[edit on 5-11-2007 by saint4God]

Originally posted by ChronMan
reply to post by dbates

 

You are a believer yet you have a tattoo?
Please explain to me how does that not break Gods law?

I can explain why it does...

Lev 19:28

"You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor tattoo any marks on you: I am the LORD." Lev 19:28

Not judging youor anything dude. But whats even funnier is its a tatto of a cross.

Dude, its 2 thousand and bloody 7!!! Are you really going to lesson to a set of rules that were written to apply to a culture that differs from ours in sooo many ways.

Even though I'm an ardent theist, I think the pro-God threads have been overdone a little bit as of late. I think it would be better to post onto one of the older pro-God threads instead of keeping on creating new ones which don't have much new to say.

The whole "Belief" thing is misunderstood when it comes to God and religion IMO. I personally think that if I am the product of my thoughts and desire, so if my predominant thought is to get a new digital camera BAM i get that new digital camera. Same thing can be said about my brand new custom computer and many other things i ever wanted and believed i was GOING to have that i received. Sound familiar??? Ask and you will receive??? Well thats what i do i ask my self what do i want?Okay i want this and that. Then i just hold the thought of owning those things as much as i can then POOF! i get them. I allways had NO money and dont even think im spoiled because my parents are divorced my mom cleans houses to support me and my brother and i havent seen or received any money from my dad since i moved to America. Now you might say that from my experience "I have been blessed with gifts from god" or something along those lines, but its alot less complicated then that. I dont go to church, i dont waste my time praying for god to keep me out of harms way, i just Focus on what i want and have that be my predominant thought.

And dont start judging me by thinking i am an atheist because i am not. I am very spiritual but i dont follow any religion, and when it comes to the question of weather or not god exists well...i dont even go there because people automatically connect GOD with some sort of living being watching over us. I would like to call the SOURCE or THE CREATOR is energy and energy is everywhere (GOD IS EVERYWHERE) not just in churches but everywhere and here is the mind blowing part (HE IS EVEN WITHIN EACH AND EVERYONE ONE OF US!!!) you get the picture.

Please explain to me the purpose of a god that allowed these things to happen –

The Armenian Genocide

The Armenian Genocide refers to the systematic slaughter and fatal deportation of hundreds of thousands to over a million Armenians as well as the intentional and irreversible ruination of their economic and cultural life environments under the government of the Committee of Union and Progress during the First World War from 1915 to 1918 in the Ottoman Empire.

en.wikipedia.org...

The Holocaust

The Holocaust is the term generally used to describe the killing of approximately six million European Jews during World War II, as part of a program of deliberate extermination planned and executed by the National Socialist German Workers Party in Germany led by Adolf Hitler.

en.wikipedia.org...

Or how about this seemingly endless list of war crimes -

Note how all of these crimes were committed since 1907, ALL of these crimes committed in the last 100 years!!!

en.wikipedia.org...

What is the purpose of this god? Could a truly benevolent being allow these things to happen? Of course not.

[edit on 6/11/07 by thebox]

Originally posted by jaywoo
I am not anywhere as brilliant and successful as my life would seem to appear.

Hi jaywoo. I admire your honesty and I'm glad you came out and knew that you were going to be prosecuted for doing so. as with most, those who believe in god are not very successful, but very spiritual. much like I am. I am sure you read my thread about trying to prove that god is real. and I failed greatly, but your passion and your heart opens up the belief to others and it makes me be certain 100% even more that god is real. so congratulations. god bless.

Originally posted by thebox
Please explain to me the purpose of a god that allowed these things to happen –

The Armenian Genocide

The Holocaust

Or how about this seemingly endless list of war crimes -

Note how all of these crimes were committed since 1907, ALL of these crimes committed in the last 100 years!!!

What is the purpose of this god? Could a truly benevolent being allow these things to happen? Of course not.

[edit on 6/11/07 by thebox]

I can never understand how people who will not believe in God take the worst crimes of humanity, The great evils that have (and do) exist, to bolster their disbelief. This should show the human capacity for evil in all it's glory. Should God just flip a switch every now and then, turning off the free will of humanity?

God has placed on me the responsibility for the influence of my life alone. What is in my own heart day in and out, what my actions do to the lives around me. I have not killed in the holocaust, not battled in the Crusades.

Have You?

Why do you place the blame of Humanities worst on the God who wishes to save us from the very humanity that is capable of those crimes? It is Humanities responsibility to stand up to those atrocities, and we have shown again and again that we do not. When those crimes are very small, yet allowed to flourish is when humans must act, and dont. When the local leader goes in a wrong direction and those around are afraid to oppose, his power grows. We allow the atrocities to grow through action or inaction. Those crimes you have listed were by humans, against humans, all with a free will to destroy or oppose that destruction, but we do not, and the evil grows.

reply to post by jedimiller


Thanks jedi-

Your thread did not fail, your thread is what made me decide to write my own. The threads will deteriorate by those who are not looking for answers, only to tear down. We can only get a few words in before the onslought begins. We are so few and they are so many. Mine will dissolve into rubbish and someone else will start another. Be careful to never fall into the trap of trying to "save" someone. I gave that up years ago. Live a life that is curiuos and compelling. We must have something that others desire. They must see it in our person, not in our words. (well, words here on ATS i guess).

SpeakerofTruth wrote:

They say that "no man can see the face of God and live," yet, if God so desires a man to see him, he can. I had an experience that removed any doubt in my mind. I was fully awake and alert and was not taking any "mind altering" substances.

How do you know what you saw was God? Any entity much more powerful than humans could claim to be God, and many would believe it.




[edit on 6-11-2007 by Raoul Duke]

Originally posted by xxghostsxx
The whole "Belief" thing is misunderstood when it comes to God and religion IMO. I personally think that if I am the product of my thoughts and desire, so if my predominant thought is to get a new digital camera BAM i get that new digital camera. Same thing can be said about my brand new custom computer and many other things i ever wanted and believed i was GOING to have that i received. Sound familiar??? Ask and you will receive???

I guess what could be noted is what you are asking for. I have never asked God for a new computer, or a boat. Maybe I should try, but I think I know what would happen.

I'm an ex-Christian, and reading through this thread was quite interesting because I can understand both sides of this discussion.

To the OP author, I am glad to hear that you have been blessed when encountering those potentially bad circumstances.

Now, onto my own perspective on this.

I have an aunt who is anything but a Christian. I don't know her very well, but I do know that she has had a tough life, and much of it is because she brought it on herself. About 15 years ago she was in a car accident that she came away from with not much more than a couple broken bones and a concussion, and she didn't have her seat belt on. Somehow she wound up in the foot area of the passenger side. But if you were to look at her car you would call her survival a miracle. If you knew this woman, and then read the original post, the reasoning behind this way of somehow proving the existence of God would be thrown out the window. My aunt has always been a heavy drinker, promiscuous, loose with her language, and a poor role model. Why would God spare this woman from that car accident?

As a Christian I probably could have given several reasons: it wasn't her time to go yet, God still has a purpose for her, or maybe God was giving her another chance to seek salvation. Now, as I am starting to live and see things from a non-Christian perspective, I wouldn't have any sort of explanation for why my aunt was so fortunate. Clearly she was simply jarred from her car seat at the right time so that she wasn't ripped in half when everything from the dashboard and up was clipped off of the car as the bottom half of the car was crushed from the side.

And here is an example of a Christian friend of mine who died.

In 1998, when I was in high school and college I knew this girl who was about 4 years younger than me. She was a real sweetheart that everyone liked. Her Christian walk was one where you could meet her and know that she was a believer, but she let her actions do the talking. A local organization puts on weekend retreats a few times a year, and she was often there to help out. I had the privilege of being on several of those retreats with her, and got to know her quite well. We were fairly close friends even though we didn't socialize regularly. But when we were around each other, it was a brother-sister relationship that I thoroughly enjoyed.

During this woman's life she had a great deal of impact on teenagers she encountered when she herself was still in high school, and then when she was in college. She was a role model for people of all ages, greatly respected by everyone, and friend to all. When she died, her funeral was huge - a testament of just how much influence she had on the community around her.

One night around Thanksgiving in 1998 she, along with family members of the young man she was hoping to marry, were shot by her boyfriend's brother. You can read about it here: www.cbsnews.com...

Tell me, why would God spare my aunt, and then let this young woman get killed the way she was?

I'm not questioning the OP's beliefs. I respect the spiritual views of all people. But having been a Christian, I constantly struggled with how God seemed to do things that made little sense. God works in mysterious ways? I don't think so. The God of the Bible, creator of all things, admits to creating evil (www.biblegateway.com...:7;&version=9;), and he supposedly planned out every moment of the universe from beginning to end. The only thing mysterious to me is why this God would create evil, and then allow that evil to harm humans, who were created in his own image, and most beloved.

EDIT: Fixed one of the links.

[edit on 6-11-2007 by John_Q_Llama]