The Dummies Guide to "No-Planer" theory

Nah. Next they'll be saying the government hired an army of psychics to bring it down. They used telekinetics to destroy the buildings and they used their psychic mind control to convince you that you saw jets hitting the buildings.

And of course, you can't prove that's not what happened, so the argument literally holds as much weight as the no-planer theory. Everything in defense of no planes also supports my army of psychics idea.

Originally posted by PepeLapewHe did some good work but that's until he went off the deep end into the no-planer crap. But I tell you what, go to his website and find me one single piece of research that he did to back up his no-planer claims and bring it back on this thread. I will tear that evidence apart like you won't believe and show you what kind of fraud he is. Go on, find me his best evidence of no-planer crap claims.

Killtown is not a serious researcher, he is a dumbass wrapped up in his ridiculous no-planer claims.

Cheers,
PepeLapiu

I went over to his site like you suggested and my eyes popped opened at this. Did you threaten Killtown's life PepeLapiu?

"Death threat by a planehugger"

I am still waiting for anyone who believes the official story to come up with an explanation for molten steel in the basemants of all 3 of the buildings.

Originally posted by antsi
I went over to his site like you suggested and my eyes popped opened at this. Did you threaten Killtown's life PepeLapiu?

"Death threat by a planehugger

Never mind. You claim that he is a good researcher. Just find me an evidence of his, find me what you consider the best evidence he has of the no-planer bullshiit and I will take that evidence apart like a 3 dollar bill.

Originally posted by mattifikation
Nah. Next they'll be saying the government hired an army of psychics to bring it down. They used telekinetics to destroy the buildings and they used their psychic mind control to convince you that you saw jets hitting the buildings.

See me opening post at the beginning of this thread, you are doing exactly what I predicted. You are using straw man arguments to put 9/11 away.
Just look at this video below, it is a compilation of the videos took on that day of the collapse of WTC-7. Just ell me, how do you think that building collapsed?
www.youtube.com...

And of course, you can't prove that's not what happened, so the argument literally holds as much weight as the no-planer theory. Everything in defense of no planes also supports my army of psychics idea.

Well, the army of psychics idea s just as ridiculous as the no-plane idea so I am not going to discuss either one. Just tell me how do you think a building can fall like that perfectly vertically inside 7 seconds.

Originally posted by keywestjess
Sorry I've been away but I really went though alot of different views regarding 911 and put them together with my own accounts of that day.. when i was there. What is also really cool is that I just also saw the falling of the old Sands hotel in AC nj so I used that to go along with some of the vids.

First off. I am sorry. I cannot see anything that cannot be explained away by using a realistic mind. I knew the no plan theory is out the window. why? i saw them, i heard them, smelled them, felt them hit.

Good for you but remember the no-planer crap is not to be associated with the truth movement. Thanx for understanding this right away.

For building 7. I see no expolosives that are similar to any building that has been taken down.. if this building's structure was strong and true.. there would have had to be dozens of tiny but yet loud and heard explosions on every floor... there aren't any....

No explosions? Then what is this:

9/11: WTC-7 Explosion #1
www.youtube.com...

9/11: WTC-7 Explosion #2
www.youtube.com...

9/11: WTC-7 Explosion #3
www.youtube.com...

But don't mind the explosions, you say that you "cannot see anything that cannot be explained away by using a realistic mind"
So tell me, explain away using a realistic mind, tell me what caused WTC-7 to collapse so perfectly vertically inside 6.5 seconds right down into it's own footprints.

Even though i have come to this conclusion.. i am sure there are people who are going to say... ahhh well. you were fooled by a super dooper weapon that lets you think you see things and feel things and smell things and and its really beyond my simple understanding. OR.. they used super secret hot buringing ultra quiet explosions to bring down seven

Please, nobody is saying stoopit stuff like that to you. However, I remind you that thermate was used in a very large portion of the demolition of all 3 buildings on that day. Thermates are not "super secret weapons" as they have been used by the military for a long time and they don't produce an explosion. See an example of a thermite reaction here and remember that thermates are many times more pottent and hotter then thermites:

Thermite Experiment
www.youtube.com...

The use of thermites/thermates would explain the very hot molten steel found in the basement of all 3 buildings. As much as 6 weeks after the event they could find flowing molten steel in the rubble of the 3 buildings. But since jet fuel can not melt steel, what could have caused this molten steel?

WTC Ground Zero Molten Steel (Part One)
www.youtube.com...

WTC Ground Zero Molten Steel (Part Two)
www.youtube.com...

9/11: Ground Zero Molten Steel
www.youtube.com...

So, no questions about it, there was molten steel on site but what's strange is that neither the NIST report nor the 9/11 Commission report have mentioned this molten steel. Not only that but they have DENIED that any molten steel was present at ground zero. Now why do you think they try to deny so hard that molten steel was found weeks after the fact?

Well, jet fuel and office fires can not produce molten steel, but thermates/thermites as well as other explosives can. So they pretend that te molten steel doesn't exist.

Even BEFORE the towers collapsed, some molten steel could be found dripping off the side of the towers. How did that steel melt when office fires do not burn hot enough to melt steel?

Molten Metal Thermite Dripping From Tower
www.youtube.com...

But the NIST and 9/11 omission report all try to pretend that the molten steel didn't exist, not before the collapse and not after either. Ask yourself why?

Cheers,
PepeLapiu

Thank you OP for replying so quickly. Interesting comments.

So let me see if I understand you correctly, please bare with me on this...

You are in possession of 109 videos of flight number 175 impacting the tower but 'some' of these videos actually do Not show a plane impacting the tower as they are simply shots of the explosion itself and 'some' of these videos are indeed repeats. Is this correct?

You 'feel' that the total number of independent videos in your possession is somewhere between 30-40 (perhaps more) but you Don't 'feel' like counting them all. Is this correct?

You imply that you have other videos of a plane hitting the first tower but you do not state the exact number. Is this assumption of the implication correct?

You Are willing to take the time and energy to burn disks and go to the post to mail them to us, but you are Not willing to to examine the contents of your hard drive and make an accurate list of all of the data in your possession. Is this correct?

You Are willing to solicit personal information and funds (in the form of $2.00) in exchange for the information you possess (which may be in direct violation of the T&C of this site, section 1e www.abovetopsecret.com... ) but you are Not willing to compile and post your data on a site such as youtube or livevideo and share it freely with the entire world. Is this correct?

You are willing to advocate that if people don't want to send you money and personal information then they should download and install suspect and potentially dangerous software onto their computers and search some clearly named yet not clearly identified web site for the information themselves (presumably as you yourself have done) Is this correct?

No disrespect intended but to date nothing you have said or done has done much to instill any faith and confidence in you or your claims.

Again, I am not a 'planer' or a 'no planer' but simply a 'numbers' man. In other words, show me the money.

I have had some very positive interactions with Springer (one of the site owners) and Jeff Ritzman (a conspiracy master and image specialist here at ATS). Perhaps they would be willing to help you to get the data off of your hard drive and onto ATS where it can be peer reviewed freely by all.

Again, thank you for your prompt and courteous reply to my previous questions and I hope you understand that I am not attacking you personally. I simply cannot follow the vague trail of bread crumbs and even more vague 'connect the dots yourself' attitude. That type of behavior strikes me as tabloid journalism and not serious research.

Thank you and best of luck.

Originally posted by PepeLapew
Thermates are not "super secret weapons" as they have been used by the military for a long time and they don't produce an explosion.

There is something called a thermite bomb that does explode.

www.textfiles.com...

THERMITE BOMB: Thermite can be made to explode by taking the cast thermiteformula and substituting fine powdered aluminum for the coarse/fine mix.Take 15 grams of first fire mix and put in the center of a piece of aluminumfoil. Insert a waterproof fuse into the mix and gather up the foil around the fuse. Waterproof the foil/fuse with a thin coat of wax. Obtain a two-piece spherical mold with a diameter of about 4-5 inches. Wax or oil the inside of the mold to help release the thermite. Now, fill one half of themold with the cast thermite. Put the first fire/fuse package into the centerof the filled mold. Fill the other half of the mold with the thermite andassemble mold. The mold will have to have a hole in it for the fuse to stickout. In about an hour, carefully separate the mold. You should have a ballof thermite with the first fire mix in the center of it, and the fuse
sticking out of the ball. Dry the ball in the sun for about a week.
DO NOT DRY IT IN AN OVEN !

There is also a Thermite Fuel-Air explosive.

THERMITE FUEL-AIR EXPLOSION: This is a very dangerous device. Ask yourselfif you really truly want to make it before you do any work on it. It is next to impossible to give any dimensions of containers or weights of charges because of the availability of parts changes from one person to the next. However here is a general description of this device affectionately known as a HELLHOUND.

[edit on 5-11-2007 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by daystrom
You Are willing to solicit personal information and funds (in the form of $2.00) in exchange for the information you possess (which may be in direct violation of the T&C of this site, section 1e www.abovetopsecret.com... )

The information I posses is totally free, all that I ask is that you send me a self stamped envelope and I will do the rest.

If you want a compilation of all the flight #175 videos that only will require a self stamped envelope. If you can not trust me with your address, go to Conspiracy Central and download the files yourself. If you trust neither me nor Conspiracy Central then you are on your own.

If you want me to send you a copy of all the compilations I have, that would include #175 impact, #11 impact, WTC1 collapse, WTC2 collapse, WTC7 collapse. That is over 7 GB of videos. If you want me to share those with you, you can send me a self stamped envelope with 2$ to cover the cost of the 2 blank DVDs I will use to burn the videos. If you don't trust me with your 2$ then you can send me two blank DVD+R with a self stamped envelope. If you don't trust me at all, go to Conspiracy Central yourself and download the freaking thing yourself. If you do not trust me or Conspiracy Central then you are on your own buddy. Go search and create your own freaking compilations and stop insulting people who offer you their efforts for free.

but you are Not willing to compile and post your data on a site such as youtube or livevideo and share it freely with the entire world. Is this correct?

WRONG!! I already have been sharing the compilation of the WTC-7 demolition on YouTube here for free:

9/11: Building WTC7 Compilation
www.youtube.com...

As for the compilation of the flight #175 crash, that might be something I will do at a later time when and if I find the time and resources. In the mean time you are welcomed to do it yourself if you so desire to see such a project being done.

You are willing to advocate that if people don't want to send you money and personal information then they should download and install suspect and potentially dangerous software onto their computers and search some clearly named yet not clearly identified web site for the information themselves (presumably as you yourself have done) Is this correct?

Now you are being an ass.

No disrespect intended...

My experience tells me that whenever a phrase starts with this wording, it is usually with the intend to disrespect the person.

but to date nothing you have said or done has done much to instill any faith and confidence in you or your claims.

Fine, then go do your own stoopit compilations yourself and don't ask me to help you.

Again, I am not a 'planer' or a 'no planer' but simply a 'numbers' man. In other words, show me the money.

Then if you are a numbers man, do the numbers yourself, show yourself the money. Don't freaking ask me to do the numbers for you and then bitch that you don't trust me. Do your own footwork.

I have had some very positive interactions with Springer (one of the site owners) and Jeff Ritzman (a conspiracy master and image specialist here at ATS).

Obviously you trust them, so go ask them to do your numbers for you since you are obviously too untrusting of me, too untrusting of Conspiracy Central and too lazy to do your own numbers yourself.

Cheers,
PepeLapiu

[edit on 5-11-2007 by PepeLapew]

[edit on 5-11-2007 by PepeLapew]

Originally posted by daystrom
You are willing to advocate that (...) they should download and install suspect and potentially dangerous software onto their computers and search some clearly named yet not clearly identified web site for the information themselves (presumably as you yourself have done) Is this correct?

From reading this I gather that:

1) you do not trust me.
2) you do not trust Conspiracy Central
3) You do not trust the video files and you fear they might be suspect and potentially dangerous.

No disrespect intended but to date nothing you have said or done has done much to instill any faith and confidence in you or your claims.

Again you make it clear you do not trust me and my claims.

I have had some very positive interactions with Springer (one of the site owners) and Jeff Ritzman (a conspiracy master and image specialist here at ATS).

I gather you consider them friends. I gather you trust these people.

Perhaps they would be willing to help you to get the data off of your hard drive and onto ATS where it can be peer reviewed freely by all.

Wait a minute, you seem to believe that I am a shady individual with shady claims, shady files and a shady web site and you want your friends to get involved and cooperate with such a shady individual, with such shady claims and such shady files and such a shady website. Is this correct?

I hope you understand that I am not attacking you personally.

I certainly don't understand such a thing. I find you to be a bit rude and arrogant. If you don't trust me with 2$ of your money, if you don't trust me with two of your blank DVDs, if you don't trust me with the files I offer, if you don't trust me with the website I direct you to, if you don't trust me with your address, I find you very arrogant to then suggest I do work and research at your request and for your benefit.

No disrespect intended but....

Disrespect was certainly intended by you but not admitted.

The bottom line is that if you don't trust me and Conspiracy Central and you want those other two guys to collaborate with me, you are going to have to convince them to trust either me or the web site. Now how are you going to do that if you are so paranoid with me and the site?

I tried to offer you help. But if you don't trust me I suggest you look elsewhere for help.

Cheers,
PepeLapiu

[edit on 5-11-2007 by PepeLapew]

OP, I am sorry if I have offended you, that was never my intention nor is it my current desire.

You have made a claim (planes hit the towers)

You state that you have sufficient evidence to conclusively prove this (I do not doubt you)

But you seem reluctant to provide this evidence and counter that each and every one of us should repeat the efforts you have already made, or else give you our personal information so that you can mail us your data. Why is this?

Is it really that difficult for you to just LOOK at the files you have on your hard drive and make an accurate assessment of the number of unique videos that support your claim?

I do not have the ability to install a bit torrent client on a computer nor am I at liberty to hand out my personal information or that of a 'trusted' third party in order for you to mail the information to me. I deeply regret that this inability of mine offends you and that you feel compelled to call me an "ass" in a U2U and openly chastise me in public forum.

Since I do have a great deal of respect for the site owners, I will ask them to investigate this matter further. Perhaps they will be able to communicate with you in a less threatening way than I do.

Again, I sincerely apologize if I have offended you, and thank you again for your prompt reply to my questions.

We seem to be online at the same time.

What is this "conspiracy central" of which you speak? A google search of that term in quotes turns up over 50,000 possible matches, many seem to be forums. I am unable to find a repository of videos.

I am sorry that I am not as intelligent as you and that my desire to understand what is simple and easy for you irks you.

I have been accused of being short and to the point in the past, many precieve this as an attack, I can only assure you that it is not.

I do NOT think that you are shady or untrustworthy.

I do think that you are avoiding direct questions and dragging emotions into this.

I 'feel' that perhaps it would be wise for BOTH of us to take a few steps back and perhaps continue this discussion at a later date.

Thank you for your prompt replies.

Originally posted by daystrom
What is this "conspiracy central" of which you speak? A google search of that term in quotes turns up over 50,000 possible matches, many seem to be forums. I am unable to find a repository of videos.

Here it is:
www.conspiracycentral.net...
Over 4,000 files you can download but you will need a BitTorrent client.
Some files will take a very long time to download because they are large and with few peers to download from. Some others are dead and no longer have peers to download from. I'll try and search to see if I can find the specific file you requested.
But you will need to subscribe to they site in order to download a torrent from them.

I am sorry that I am not as intelligent as you

I have no opinion on your intelligence. And I am not that smart either so you don't need to humble yourself in this manner.

and that my desire to understand what is simple and easy for you irks you.

It's not your desire to understand that "irks" me, it's that you seem to think I should do a very large amount of work for your benefit. However, I agree with you that it would be nice if someone were to post a compilation of the #175 videos on YouTube.

I have been accused of being short and to the point in the past,

Don't worry about it, it's the same with me. Ask Killtown or go see his site and you will know what I mean. If people have accused you of being short, you and I must share a certain DNA strand.

I do think that you are avoiding direct questions and dragging emotions into this.

Please ask again and let me know what questions I have avoided. I didn't avoid any question knowingly or on purpose.

I 'feel' that perhaps it would be wise for BOTH of us to take a few steps back and perhaps continue this discussion at a later date.

When you are ready dude

Cheers,
PepeLapiu

Originally posted by daystrom
OP, I am sorry if I have offended you, that was never my intention nor is it my current desire.

You have made a claim (planes hit the towers)

You state that you have sufficient evidence to conclusively prove this (I do not doubt you)

But you seem reluctant to provide this evidence and counter that each and every one of us should repeat the efforts you have already made, or else give you our personal information so that you can mail us your data. Why is this?

Haaaa! For crying out loud man!!!!
Just get an MSN account and add [email protected] to your buddy list. Contact me on MSN and I will send you all the files on MSN ..... would that be cool with you? But I warn you, it's going to need all night to download.

Cool?

Cheers,
PepeLapiu

reply to post by PepeLapew


I think you misunderstand my point. I think there was definitely something in place to "help" bring down the towers besides being hit by the planes. But I don't think it was a particle beam, a mini-nuke, or a giant laser.

I was merely pointing out how the no-planer argument of "nobody can prove my theory wrong!" is irrational and that their theory suggests the use of impossible methods to begin with.

Originally posted by mattifikation
I think you misunderstand my point.

Sorry ... my bad

Planes hit the buildings. Too many people saw it with their eyes. Thousands lost their lives, and many more thousands lost family members. One person posting on this thread stated there was no paper trail or anyone speaking about all the behind the scenes work involved in "setting up" explosives or wiring them and purchase orders for all the "stuff." In the same paragragh he mentions the admitted work of Bin Laden and Al Qaida. Well the Bin Laden family are all friends of the chief and his dad. Makes for a comfortable little partnership. No need for a pesky paper trail and those traceable purchase orders. Ok, yes, you might think someone involved would eventually come forward and say they helped "set it up," but to be successful in business, secrets are key. That's why a good business owner hires a good secretary.

For instance, counterfeit money. The U.S. Mint has little trouble dealing with and foiling most counterfeiters. But when countries like Korea use their state-backed resources to make counterfeit U.S. bills, the U.S. mint has to get on its toes and keep abreast of it. The U.S. mint has a real challenge on their hands when it comes to that.

Now think of the challenge of what is at hand. Sure, I just gave props to the U. S. mint and their efforts. ...A part of our government. Now, back to questioning things... With the right people, and pressure from big business, (some say the real owners of this country), plus throw in some already existing "threats" from the Middle East; it seems like a scheme could be devised somewhat readily. I don't see why folks could not be fooled (if only for a short time) by the powers-that-be with an unlimited budget and a mind to do so. Plus unlimited planning and preparation time if you like.

Think of the first atom bomb. No one knew about it. The people manufacturing it didn't know what they were making every day at their own jobs. They were enriching uranium at a plant so huge, it required 10 percent of the United States electricity. A few thousand people had no idea what they were doing. And at that, no one could come forward, and not because they were ordered not to, they just didn't know what their efforts were ultimately for. The U. S. had unlimited resources, a motive, and secrecy. Why wouldn't we/they still have that capacity?

There were planes hitting buildings and killing people. Needlessly.
Then there were distractions... Give blood. Pray for America. Freedom is at risk. The chief shedding tears on camera. America bless god. ...All while the evidence smoldered and disappeared.

Heres a video of a F4 phantom slamming into a thick slab of concreteand does not bounce off, and bassicly disintigrates while penetratng the concrete.

The concrete gives more protection than the wall of the WTC

Watch this

Originally posted by Zwieger
Heres a video of a F4 phantom slamming into a thick slab of concreteand does not bounce off, and bassicly disintigrates while penetratng the concrete.

The concrete gives more protection than the wall of the WTC

Watch this

That's a great point you are making here. Too bad we can't have a look at the concrete block after the impact to see what it looks like

Cheers,
PepeLapiu

Ok I looked further into that video I posted, its not just a concrete block, it's a reinforced strengthened concrete block designed to protect nuclear power stations, the plane just atomised on impact, the tips of the wings at the end of the vid are just passing by and not threw the block.

So the block is fine bearly any damage. Not penetrated at all.

Interpret is as you like. But ofcourse you cannot even begin to compare the concrete blocks strength (Which is way way more impact resistant) to the walls of the WTC.