NASA Scientist Fired - Promises Disclosure

Originally posted by Willard856
So, in the picture you posted here Zorgon of the publicity shot, why was the the right hand side of the picture cropped? Was it the ATS embedding software? Or did you crop it?

Embedding software... if you click on the image does not the full image appear? And it was not a publicity shot... even NASA has a sense of Humor... its from a page of fun images for entertainment, just like the two lunar buggies Grande Prix....

The following images show the fun side of being an Apollo enthusiast. Many of the offerings use Apollo images and scenes as a basis, but with unexpected additions. Other offerings show Apollo images and scenes have been altered or enhanced for artistic purposes. And still others show members of the ALSJ/AFJ team having Apollo-like adventures here on Planet Earth. Enjoy!

www.hq.nasa.gov...

Seems the skeptics here have forgotten how to laugh... even during the holdiday... bunch of Grinches

Originally posted by promnight dumpster baby
maybe im jaded but making money off this kinda thing doesnt add credence to this guys words in my opinion.

There is nothing wrong with making money selling books. Many people want to buy the information in books... both John and I have extensive libraries... Books are more permanent than a website.. which vanishes the month after you stop paying the bill

Even James Oberg and Phil Plait make money on selling their books and lectures..

What's wrong is saying you have to buy the book first... and then not producing 'the goods'

Many of us here had high hopes we would see something that might finally convince skeptics... that has not happened yet, and seems likely not to...

stan meyer.............................dead
brown (browns gas) .....................dead
dr eugene mallove (cold fusion debunker of debunking multiple PHDs......................dead

Add to this Paul Brown who had a device that could use the radiation from nuclear waste...
"Apparatus for Direct Conversion of Radioactive Decay Energy to Electrical Energy,"
Remembering a Genius Energy Inventor, Dr. Paul Brown (1955-2002)

You might also find this interesting...
Dead Scientist List

Zorgon, oh dear...

My job is not to 'police' a thread. I actually enjoy seeing things go off topic...I'm kinda new here, so when I post something that seems to be awry, I get nervous, waiting for the big slap o' the wrist, so I try to qualify my comments so as not to incur the wrath...

Sorry you took my cowering in fear in the wrong way...oh, please don't stab me again!!

See? I can try to lighten the mood too!!

Cheers

reply to post by johnlear


Here we go again another disgruntled employee sees opportunity to make
lots money to print what people want to read after he as been fired.
How convenient, his credibilty as to be called into account due to his financial motives. He cant say is not influenced by the financial gains form this disclosure, which makes the whole thing questionable.

Stan Meyer died of a brain aneurism and Gene Mallove died, tragically, in a robbery.

I remember when people (whose judgement I usually seek out) thought that, if you played on Saturday Night Live, you died.

John Belushi, Gilda Radner.

Then, er... Denitra Vance...!

Then... wait for it... Chris Farley!

Yeah, that's right. All those comedians worked at SNLNASA and then died.

Strange but true.

Originally posted by tep200377

Just to give you a brief overview of our solarsystems moons:

earth 1
mars 2
jupiter 64
saturn 33
uranus 27
neptun 13
pluto 1

A grand total of 141 planetlike moons here in our solarsystem.
All are round and planetlike, except for one walnut shaped

bigfatfurrytexan

That is not correct.

Iapetus has its equitorial ridge (and a slightly hexagonal shape to its' silhouette). Phobos and Deimos look like potatos. Hyperion looks like a yam.

Enceladus is nothing like any other "planetary body". it has been witnessed to have a cometary tail (making it a comet that is currently inactive...even though it isn't a dirty snowball. More on that in another thread).

My post is all correct except for Phobos and Deimos, wich are not seen as moons. They are asteroids caught in mars orbit.

So I'll correct my statement to 139 planetary moons.

Enceladus has a regular round shape as all the other moons and do not have a cometary tail. It has a water-rich plume venting from the moon's south polar region. This is in no means a tail ...

Iapetus was reffered to as a walnut. If you didn't understand that, then im out of arguments for you my friend.

The only thing that the system moons have in common is that they have nothing in common. The shapes are only occasionally similar.

c'mon guys, do you even read my post, or even the post i commented on?
Apparently not ...

The reason for my post :

Originally posted by housegroove23
After awaking to the truth that there really is an atmosphere on the moon, Naza's lies are blatantly obvious when I walk outside and look at the moon, and the moon looks planet like. If we were to believe the lies and the image of boring lifeless black & gray moon that Naza portrays in their photos then the moon would look more like your standard asteroid when you look up in the night sky instead of planet like, the way it looks now.

And there you have it ..
There are 2 asteroid like moons, and 139 planetary like.

Where did I go "very incorrect" here?

If you get down to some of the lesser known moons in the Jovian system (Amalthea, Thebe, Metis) you see moons that are very similar in shape to the Martian potato-twins.

Ps: who cares about the jovian system?

I talked about our solarsystem, you didn't
My post is all correct except for Phobos and Deimos, wich are not seen as moons. They are asteroids caught in mars orbit.

Look it up ..

Do some checking...you are very incorrect.

Yes pleas, do some cheking...

Originally posted by zorgon
Yup Protector of Sanity is absolutely correct They all look the same

Although I have no idea why he brought it up or what it has to do with Hoagland's press release?

Sorry about this... but he tasks me... I tried to resist... but they are all so pretty

If you read the post I am answering to, you might get a revelation of why i postet it ( I cant promise you will understand the complexity of theses posts, but itst worth a try ). Then again, you post images of planetary moons ( I have already commented on phobos and deimos ), but for the rest, they are "planetary like".. I other words, no less planetary like than our moon..

So you are in fact supporting my claims.

Well...after all this, I intend to keep my tongue firmly in cheek from now on...even as I continue to type with all ten fingers. (Gosh, ain't I clever?)

Oh, dear...was that a one line post?!? Boy, am I in trouble........

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by promnight dumpster baby
maybe im jaded but making money off this kinda thing doesnt add credence to this guys words in my opinion.

There is nothing wrong with making money selling books. Many people want to buy the information in books... both John and I have extensive libraries... Books are more permanent than a website.. which vanishes the month after you stop paying the bill

Even James Oberg and Phil Plait make money on selling their books and lectures..

What's wrong is saying you have to buy the book first... and then not producing 'the goods'

Many of us here had high hopes we would see something that might finally convince skeptics... that has not happened yet, and seems likely not to...

stan meyer.............................dead
brown (browns gas) .....................dead
dr eugene mallove (cold fusion debunker of debunking multiple PHDs......................dead

Add to this Paul Brown who had a device that could use the radiation from nuclear waste...
"Apparatus for Direct Conversion of Radioactive Decay Energy to Electrical Energy,"
Remembering a Genius Energy Inventor, Dr. Paul Brown (1955-2002)

You might also find this interesting...
Dead Scientist List

i did cheers heres eugene malloves for a guy a few down after your comment who is trying to draw parallels to SNL deaths unless this was levity?

#54: Dr. Eugene Mallove, age 56. Died: May 14, 2004. Autopsy confirmed Mallove died as a result of several blunt-force injuries to his head and neck. Ruled as murder. Found at the end of his driveway. Alt. Energy Expert who was working on viable energy alternative program and announcement. Norwich Free Academy graduate.Beaten to death during an alleged robbery. Mallove was well respected for his knowledge of cold fusion. He had just published an "open letter" outlining the results of and reasons for his last 15 years in the field of "new energy research." Dr. Mallove was convinced it was only a matter of months before the world would actually see a free energy device.

also this guy
#32: David W. Barry, age 58, Died: January 28, 2002. Scientist who co-discovered AZT, the antiviral drug that is considered the first effective treatment for AIDS. Circumstance of Death are unknown.

i read that AZT was banned for treating leukemia because it killed everybody in quick time, so now they give it aids patients, that makes sense a self for filling prophecy.

i will check the other thing out too. cheers

Originally posted by tep200377
Where did I go "very incorrect" here?

By misunderstanding housegroove23 post

"If we were to believe the lies and the image of boring lifeless black & gray moon that Naza portrays in their photos then the moon would look more like your standard asteroid when you look up in the night sky instead of planet like, the way it looks now."

It was a reference to COLOR not shape

Ps: who cares about the jovian system?
I talked about our solarsystem, you didn't

Yes pleas, do some cheking...

last time I did some checking... the Jovian system IS in our solar system

If you read the post I am answering to, you might get a revelation of why i postet it ( I cant promise you will understand the complexity of theses posts, but itst worth a try ).

Wasn't very complex to me... the comment was about the color of the moon and I responded with Color pictures of the moon... that seems to have "bothered: a few people so I removed them...

But before you go in a rant and insult people, you might want to double check what your responding to

Just a thought

So you are in fact supporting my claims.

So much for "Deny ignorance"
:shk:

reply to post by zorgon


Just out of curiosity regarding the OP, when will we have this promised Disclosure? Will there be any evidence or proof?


[edit on 13-12-2007 by tep200377]

Things are heating up over at Bara's blog again:

darkmission.blogspot.com...

Here's another reply Bara seems to feel doesn't meet the 'standards' for allowing on his site:

The issue of my alleged former familiarity with Johnston goes directly to the credibility of accusations against me of unethical conduct, so please bear with me as I don't let this issue go away.


In the opening of 'Empire Strikes Back," Bara claimed: "[B]y sending Ferrari the information on Johnston and questioning his credentials (which Oberg, as a former colleague of Johnston's, knew full well were valid), he has taken an advocacy position in favor of the agency. We certainly hope that NBC News has the journalistic integrity to question why one of their employees is taking a partisan position in a news story he should theoretically be covering."

At the opening of this thread, Bara accused me of trying "to discredit a man he has known for over 30 years, while continuing to pretend he’s never even met Ken Johnston."

Further, "Oberg has also attacked me personally because the press release mentions that Oberg was “a colleague of Johnston’s at NASA’s Manned Spacecraft Center during the Apollo Program in the 1970’s.”"

Why can't Bara just say that the press release was in error? Why does he have to go through tortuous gyrations over definitions of when the "Apollo program" ended?

He's going to have to give an inch here, since the statement also claims I was "at the Manned Spacecraft Center" with Johnston -- even though Bara noted correctly that the name was changed to the Johnson Space Center in 1973, and I arrived there in 1975. Evidently he insists that 1975 AD came before 1973 AD.

That's no less nonsensical than claiming I was a "colleague" of Johnston, of whom I have no memory ever working with. And THAT leads to the refutation of Bara's accusation that my questioning of Johnston's claimed credentials is evil since I supposedly KNEW (based on non-existent colleague-ness] the credentials were actually valid.

There is nothing "inexplicable" (Bara's word in the top paragraph of this thread) about my persistence in requesting Bara to correct these erroneous statements. Once he stops using my reputation as a punching bag to promote his book, and undoes the attacks published so far, I'll happily go away and leave him to the company he prefers.

Originally posted by tep200377
Just out of curiosity regarding the OP, when will we have this promised Disclosure? Will there be any evidence or proof?

Doesn't look to good right now on that score, at least not from Ken Johnston et all

Oh wait I see an update from JimO

Well here is the first piece of evidence that actually looks like it supports some of Ken's claims... perhaps they have been 'holding out' while this 'soap opera' plays out


This one looks ligit... and has name on it... and looks like many other NASA letters I have seen...




[edit on 13-12-2007 by zorgon]

Now with all this talk back and forth between the two 'parties' I have to wonder if this is all part of the plan...

Americans love soap operas, they love shows like Jerry Springer...

What if all this hype is just a ruse? The question is then to what end? Will they sell more books this way than if they just stuck to their evidence (no matter what you think of it) and presentation?

Why 'muddy the water' with this stuff? The Tabloid effect perhaps? Hmmm

I just posted a note on the blog inviting Mike to come here and answer JimO and others... I don't know if that will happen and I will wait until my post gets 'approved' (gotta love sites that screen the comments :dn If it doesn't go through I will post it here...

One thing I did notice when I read comments over there was these two posts...

(To the Mods... if this can't be shown please zap it and just leave the link and date)...

gene said...
Mike,
I'd like to make a suggestion:

Put all posts regarding Ken's credentials in a section of their own, and use the rest of the blog to discuss Dark Mission and the subject matter covered by Dark Mission.

We've been distracted enough. When people who are new to this subject matter come here hoping to find out more, all they see is an argument over someone's credentials.

I wonder: Is that an accident or a plan?

December 12, 2007 1:01 AM

Mike Bara said...

It's a plan.

December 12, 2007 8:12 AM

Perhaps Mike was joking...

Zorgon: "Well here is the first piece of evidence that actually looks like it supports some of Ken's claims... perhaps they have been 'holding out' while this 'soap opera' plays out "

Nope, they posted this on Bara's site a month ago. It proves nothing of interest.

Johnston was at the lunar lab, serving as a a shipping clerk for lunar samples and associated photodocumentation.

Dark_Mission claims he was in charge of all Apollo photo archives and was ordered to destroy ALL original images as part of a coverup.

He was 27 at the time, with at best a BS in engineering. Sure, NASA has hundreds of lunar scientists on the project, and they chose this kid to be their boss. Right.

What actually seems to have happened was he worked in a lab that was sent a few sets of images, from the actual office that was in charge of them, and at the end of the lunar sample collection period, he was told to clean out the bookshelves by getting rid of no longer needed (for his task) reference albums.

The originals were, and always remained, in another building, under another group's control. And always fully available for scientific and media access.

The DM version is a crock.

I knew Jeff Warner (mentioned in the latter), and recently exchanged emails with him about this.

Mike joking? Not likely -- he seems to sincerely believe he is the victuim of an evil gummint plot.... and he even challenged me to admit which coverup official had ordered me to 'get' Johnston.

Originally posted by JimO...I'll happily go away and leave him...

Maybe, but I am getting kind of fond of you coming by here. Perchance you'll stay a while longer if that is in your plans when the KJ fiasco blows over?

Talk about what a terraformed Moon may look like?

Or that "scar" where a moon fell, the Vallis Marinaras?

And the oceans of Ceres?

The ice fields of Mercury?

Surely we could do something with those iceballs in the Krupier Belt?

There is no end to what we could know, but what we do know is finite.

reply to post by Matyas


Matyas, interesting.

...'what we do know is finite.'? I like to think that I know little, and my imagination is infinite. I've never had the benefit of 'remote viewing' experience, nor have I had the honor of any paranormal encounters. But that doesn't mean my mind is closed to reading and understanding what others tell me, about those and other experiences they may have.

My opinion -- I wholeheartedly wish that those in the know will indeed come forward and the promised 'disclosure' will happen in my lifetime. Perhaps those who "know" might consider banding together, not only for safety, but to ensure dissemination of the knowledge.

Just a thought...

What people may not know, or Mr. Oberg may have not told you, is that his FIRST email to Ms Ferrari at JPL about Dr. Ken Johnston as SIGNED as a representative for NBS news as if THIS "Investigation" ( for which he used a Swedish UFO site as a 'source' ) which...it turns out...Mr. Oberg did NOT have permission from NBC to send that as their representative.

I addmittedly did not read ALL 46 pages of this thread...but since the invite was initiated...I decided to come here and respond. I have been a member a long time...but have not visited as often as I would have liked. That might and hopefully will change. I am also a member of BlackVault and a number of other BBSs, run 2 others and looking to start a 3rd after the holidays...busy feller.

Here is Mr. Oberg's ORGINAL email to Ms. Ferrari if it has not been posted here before...if it has...I apologize in advance:

Oberg sent this email in his capacity as an NBC science reporter.

-----

From: "Jim Oberg" To: Cc: , ,"james oberg" Subject: question re ambassador Ken JohnstonDate: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 06:45:04 -0500X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138X-Source-IP: sccrmhc12.comcast.net [63.240.77.82]X-Source-Sender: [email protected]: 0.00%To: Kay Ferrari:

Hi! I'm checking out some stories attributed to New Mexico Solar System Ambassador Ken Johnston, described atwww2.jpl.nasa.gov... that NASA photos from Apollo show alien structures on the Moon which NASA is covering up, and that Richard Hoagland is correct about NASA and its astronauts lying to the public.See www.enterprisemission.com... anddarkmission.blogspot.com...

and www.lunaranomalies.com/corbtroy.htm etc etc

Some criticism here: www.ufo.se... Noory, ;Coast to Coast' (all night show, formerly 'Art Bell' show)www.coasttocoastam.com...
"Ken Johnston, who worked for NASA for 23 years, appeared in Hour 2, and described screening Apollo footage and seeing a cluster of lights in a moon crater accompanied by a plume of steam. But then two days later when he showed the footage to some officials, the crater material had been seamlessly removed. Perhaps even more surprising was Johnston and Hoagland's supposition that astronauts who went to the moon may have had their memories altered or blanked in order to suppress their knowledge of what they saw there."

Is he still an 'ambassador' in good standing, and did you ever make any effort to verify any of his professional/educational claims as published on your website?If he was 61 in 2007, as the data indicates, he was born in 1946, so "in the 1960's" he would have been about 20. To learn to fly jets in the Marines, and then serve out his service commitment (3 to 4 years), and then become a Grumman LM pilot instructor by 1969, he'd have had to begin flight training at about the age of 17, I figure -- which doesn't seem credible, since he's have had to have been a commissioned officer before that step. What am I overlooking here?He also says he examined original Apollo imagery in the Lunar Receiving Lab at JSC. Please correct me on this as needed, but I thought that film was transferred from the quarantine facility (and LRL) to the regular Bldg 8 photoprocessing lab for development and printing -- NOT handled by a temporary facility within the LRL area? Have I got that wrong?

Thanks!

Jim Oberg

“Mr. Oberg did NOT have permission from NBC to send that as their representative.”

Bob has a hard time with English comprehension. He made up the claim that I posed as an “NBC science reporter”. A ‘consultant’ to an organization is not a ‘representative’ of that organization, and in this case, I was checking out the credentials of Johnston on behalf of a request from an NBC client in the features department. Bob has exchanged emails with the MSNBC website, and since they are not interested in a story, he has concluded – and is reporting as a fact – that NOBODY at NBC was ever interested in this subject. But even the Enterprise mission home page reported that NBC was interested in an interview with Hoagland, back at the time of the book’s release date. This has badly confused him and he seems lonely, hoping to get company in his confusion.

Hoagland and others have described that email to JPL as demanding Johnston be terminated from his volunteer position. That also suggests difficulty with English comprehension.

Most to the point, the two issues I originally raised – the ‘jet jock’ credentials (as in Dark_Mission) and the claim of his being in charge of the original Apollo photographs – turn out to be absolutely valid. Despite weeks of shrieking and whining, Johnston’s defenders have been unable to show any evidence he ever was IN military flight school, much less graduated and served as a pilot. To the contrary, the certificates they have posted show that between his graduation from PRE-flight school and his reporting to work at Grumman as a Lunar Module ‘switch monkey’ (NOT a ‘test pilot), there was less than 18 months of time to complete the waiting period pre-school, the 13 month school, and the 6-year duty commitment for flight school graduates. No explanation has ever been offered as to how Johnston is supposed to have accomplished this. And per my request to a friend, a retired Marine BG formerly in charge of pilot training, his request to the USMC personnel office at the Pentagon came up with a definitive ‘NO’ – there never was any ‘pilot officer’ named ‘Ralph K. Johnston’ (or variations on that name) in the Marines in the 1960s.

And associates of Johnston’s at the moon lab confirm – they never were in charge of any photographs except the sets they were sent from the real photo lab, where all images were always preserved and available for study. Johnston was apparently ordered to clear out HIS office’ local filing cabinets at the end of the Apollo program, but this had nothing to do with any cover-ups of the original images, as Dark_Mission claims.

And this doesn’t even touch on perhaps the most sensitive item on Johnston’s self-written biography on the NASA program’s website, his claimed ‘PhD in Meta Physics’ (his spelling). Big organizations are particularly sensitive to employee use of questionable education documentation, and this ‘certificate’ (labeled a ‘deploma’ on Bara’s blog) is NOT a “PhD” (Doctor of Philosophy in some field), but a “Doctor of Metaphysics” from a non-accredited, no longer existing corporation in Colorado calling itself a "church seminary" and thus being exempt from state standards (there are national standards for “PhD equivalent” degrees in the academic world – “Doctor of Metaphysics” is not on any of those lists). There is no evidence it ever had a campus, a library, even a faculty – only a printing press. “Dr.” Johnston might well have been nervous about NASA asking him for support documentation on this claim that he had had them post on their website.

Because Johnston’s claims are so central to the theme of Dark_Mission, it’s not surprising that they have chosen to fight it out on this line and portray any validation efforts on Johnston’s claims as “attacks” on him. This portrayal, it is worth noting, comes from the same people who gleefully attack the integrity of real lunar scientists such as Mike Duke and Thornton Page and many many others as liars, forgers, betrayers, and crypto-Nazis. It’s a technique worth drawing attention to.

reply to post by weedwhacker


What is out there is infinite. Just in our solar system, Saturn sports a vortex at its south pole large enough to swallow Earth. And it has a hexagon at the north end.

It rains diamonds on Neptune, and Mars has (vast?) forests near its poles. Io produces enough power to run everybody in the solar system for centuries.

Did you know on Mercury there are "points of eternal light"? And the Sun will rise and set in the same place once a year...

No, I am afraid we are the finite ones. Men will not do that which they cannot imagine.

There is an exoplanet called Methuselah, it is as old as the universe. If spontaneous generation of random events require extremely low probability, it happened there. We all have our own viewpoints of the transcendent, and for me Methuselah is the expression of as close we can get to the infinite. I dare not venture farther for danger committing an unforgivable heresy.

So, since we are all riding this boat together, perhaps it would be good to learn together as well.