The Sun DOES revolve around the Earth?

A recent post by mcoolaquired about fake space reminded me of a theory I thought of along time ago - perhaps not as far-fetched. Please do not respond by referring to me as a flat earther. This theory is possible and I am curious if anyone has anything to add or subtract from it. This by the way is my first attempt at a thread on ATS.
The theory simply is this: Space or the universe can by all intensive purposes be considered infinite (if you don't believe space is infinite then at least that it is too vast to measure). Now imagine than in this infinite or immeasurable space that we can make observations that heavenly bodies such as planets and galaxies are moving but we realize this only in relation to other heavenly bodies. Since most of space is a relative vauum, it is possible that the earth actually never moves at all. Everything else in the universe is moving in such a way that makes it appear that the earth is moving - Kind of like an optical illusion - it depends on how you really look at it (example do you see two faces or a vase etc.). Doesn't our view of the Universe depend on how you really look at it? Now you can go into newton's law and gravity and all that but I'm still not convinced. My answer to that is - how do we really know how dense the earth is? This is calculated by assuming that it revovles around the sun. Couldn't it be possible that the earth is stationary and at the center - there really are no real landmarks in vacuous space because everything is seemingly in motion, but what if, just what if the earth is the center? Couldn't you theoretically say that any point in the known Universe is the center? I really think Astronomy is still 99% speculation. We are talking about something the Human Mind can barely even comprehend and yet here we are! Please try to at least entertain this possibility for one moment before completely shooting it down!!

The Sun DOES revolve around the Earth?

Nope the earth revolve around the sun!

EDIT: i can not read! anyhow; the earth moves on an axis around the sun, that has been proven, and is not theory! The sun has to large an impact on earth for us not to see it... Sorry but ill have to disagree...

[edit on 31-10-2007 by Tetragrammaton]

Sure it's possible that the Earth doesn't move any everything else is just in relative motion.

Except it's not true

Its called the god complex, you think you are unique and special to this world, hence the world we live on must hold a special place in the universe, the Greeks thought this, the Mayan and Egyptians etc. knew this was wrong….

Sure the earth can be the center of the universe because there's nothing a bunch of tiny humans can do to prove that it isn't. Therefore, we have not proven it nor disproven it. It's sort of a moot point to even try to prove it, really.

And about the sun revolving around the Earth, that isn't true. I'm quite sure this theory was debunked quite a long time ago along with the theory that the Earth was flat. And I'm sure you're thinking "Why can't this girl read my post?" Well I did and what you're saying makes no sense. We have proven that the Earth revolves around the Sun using measures, physics, all that good stuff.

We know that the Earth rotates on a tilted axis, so whenever it revolves around the sun, different amounts of light are being delivered to different parts of the Earth thus creating the seasons. We also know how long it takes for the Earth to make one revolution around the sun and the exact amount of time each season is present.

If the sun revolved around the earth at the same rate, parts of the world would be entirely submerged in darkness for the same length as the seasons and vice versa.

If the sun revolved around the Earth, where would the other planets revolve?

Don't you think that scientists with more comprehension of the world and space than you have already speculated this theory, taken it past speculation and quickly proven it wrong with facts?

I think the point the OP is trying to make could be illustrated like this: if you had a moving model of it all, you could hold the earth still and watch everything move according to it, or you could hold the sun still and watch it all move according to it. Neither is the center of the universe.

It is very useful to understand that your perspective can change how you see things, good job CyberTruth on your first thread. It's not "scientific" to say the sun revolves around the earth, but you can still learn a lot from this sort of thinking outside of the box.

Thank You Novise for your comment

I think the point the OP is trying to make could be illustrated like this: if you had a moving model of it all, you could hold the earth still and watch everything move according to it, or you could hold the sun still and watch it all move according to it. Neither is the center of the universe.

This is an excellent example and illustration of exactly what I'm trying to communicate!! - I'm glad somebody gets it!!

[edit on 31-10-2007 by CyberTruth]

[edit on 31-10-2007 by CyberTruth]

[edit on 31-10-2007 by CyberTruth]

Thats a very interesting theory and sounds plausible, but in this case it isnt true

Besides my fiancee thinks the universe revolves around her

It is perhaps the case that the earth is the center of the universe,and objects such as the sun, planets and galaxies are orbiting the earth. But earth seems too special and unique in that case,that is not kinda probable. I mean, earth is extraordinary in some sense(the only planet inhabitated by human),but it is not special but ordinary as a planet in the universe. So every star could be regarded as the center and other stars are revolving around it. However, we can't offer enough proof to demonstrate that certain star ,such as moon or earth , is stationary and at the center.

Whatever.We may never get the exact answer to this quetion.Only God knows.

I like this thread....good theory...if not right(as proved by Paresthesia).
didnt einstein say something about relativity..

what about this theory that i thought off a few years back...i might be well off the mark here and would appreciate being corrected...theoretically the universe is expanding all the time(this is something i am not sure of)...so new galaxies etc are coming into existance all the time...could this be wrong?...and the real explanation is that the light from these galaxies/suns/planets is only just reaching earth allowing us to view said galaxies/suns/planets....so these far away galaxies etc have been around for a lot longer than we think.

The Earth doesn't even have the mass to draw that kind of object into it's orbit. Things happen for a reason(Law of nature/physics), they don't happen because we want them to, or that we think it may be possible.

Right on dead flag. BTW, if the Sun did revolve around the Earth then why would the other planets continue to orbit the Sun? Shouldnt they orbit Earth too?

Holy Moley, some people like me, without my specs, have trouble readint a wall of letters. Heck Im sure some without needing specs do..

egads!

Originally posted by CyberTruth
A recent post by mcoolaquired about fake space reminded me of a theory I thought of along time ago - perhaps not as far-fetched. Please do not respond by referring to me as a flat earther. This theory is possible and I am curious if anyone has anything to add or subtract from it. This by the way is my first attempt at a thread on ATS.

The theory simply is this: Space or the universe can by all intensive purposes be considered infinite (if you don't believe space is infinite then at least that it is too vast to measure). Now imagine than in this infinite or immeasurable space that we can make observations that heavenly bodies such as planets and galaxies are moving but we realize this only in relation to other heavenly bodies.

Since most of space is a relative vauum, it is possible that the earth actually never moves at all. Everything else in the universe is moving in such a way that makes it appear that the earth is moving - Kind of like an optical illusion - it depends on how you really look at it (example do you see two faces or a vase etc.). Doesn't our view of the Universe depend on how you really look at it?

Now you can go into newton's law and gravity and all that but I'm still not convinced. My answer to that is - how do we really know how dense the earth is? This is calculated by assuming that it revovles around the sun. Couldn't it be possible that the earth is stationary and at the center - there really are no real landmarks in vacuous space because everything is seemingly in motion, but what if, just what if the earth is the center? Couldn't you theoretically say that any point in the known Universe is the center?

I really think Astronomy is still 99% speculation. We are talking about something the Human Mind can barely even comprehend and yet here we are!

Please try to at least entertain this possibility for one moment before completely shooting it down!!

Whew, now I have to preview this to read it.. :/



I still dont know what you're asking.. Blame the beer tho.. But weeeehoo.. From the sun revolving around the earth to the desnsity of earth??

I'll read it again tomorrow.. in my paragraphed version first..

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
Thats a very interesting theory and sounds plausible, but in this case it isnt true

Besides my fiancee thinks the universe revolves around her

You say Fiancee..

Therefore you also think the same!

reply to post by CyberTruth


just limiting the argument to this solar system , the geo-centric model is untennable

the simplest rebutal to the geo-centric hypothesis is to request go-centricst to provide an EPHEMERIS and orbital charcterisics for thier geo-centric model and

the model must both coform to observational data - and be predictive .

then and only then will i listen to them

it has been tried - and all have failed

one of the first stubling blocks is the retrograde obervations of mars - try plotting a geo-centric orbit for mars that allows retrograde observations

there are others - and the " solution " to one is always mutally exclusive to other solutions

this :



is a simplified graphic of the currently accepted model - and it meets all scientific criteria

it explains martian regrogade orbits , transits , ocultations , alignments

everything thats why it is scientifically accepted

so what are the orbialt mechanics and charateristics that allow your geo centric hypothesis to match observed phenonemon .

put up or shut up - to be blunt

reply to post by ignorant_ape


I don't really have any hard numbers to crunch here - it's just a concept and a challenge to perception. I'm not saying you can't point to the sun as the center and make all your measurements based on that. As I stated, In a universe that is as mysterious as it is old, it is my contention that we make a lot of assumptions. Once the model is created and all calculations are made based on that model, it is still possible that the model can be completely revamped or readjusted so that everything previously ascertained from
the original model still applies.

[edit on 1-11-2007 by CyberTruth]

In terms of relativity, you can hold any point static. Thus you are right.

The math is easier if you put the heavy stuff at the center, but you can just as easily hold the earth as the center and all the physics of the universe still work.

It's all relative!

Originally posted by Quest
The math is easier if you put the heavy stuff at the center, but you can just as easily hold the earth as the center and all the physics of the universe still work.

I trust that you mean in terms of perception, correct? Thus, you can perceive any point in the universe as "the center", because it quite frankly doesn't matter where the center is.

Great post Cyber, but as many others have pointed out, your logic is faulty. The mass of an object can be calculated with a fine degree of accuracy, thanks to the work of physicists such as Henry Cavendish. Through his experiments, Cavendish was able to calculate the gravitational constant, which enabled Astronomers to calculate the mass of Celestial bodies by observing the way other bodies interacted with them. Additionally, Cavendish was also the man responsible for the determining the mass of the Earth. Coupling the new understanding of the Gravitational Constant with Newtonian physics, higher mathematics, and the work of Einstein (Relativity), humanity has attained a great deal of knowledge about how the workings of the Universe.

Of course, there might be massive changes right around the corner. Science has yet to find a way to reconcile Quantum Physics with the Theory of Relativity. When THAT is done, and a Grand Unified Theory is developed, mankind will truly begin to see the majesty of God's creation.

If it makes you feel any better though, you can believe that the Earth is the center of the Universe. There's no concrete way to prove you wrong, and I don't think the Universe would mind very much.

There's just one little problem.

Laws are not necessarily 100% valid. (Hence why some get ''edited / finetuned'').

Or sometimes they are, but can't explain a specific event due to an external unknown factor.

Technically there's a possibility that everything or that only the sun revolves around the earth.

Though it is less likely than what currently is accepted.

reply to post by CyberTruth


No... it just doesnt... Although technically the Earth's gravitational field would affect the sun to a tiny degree - so it would 'orbit' it slightly, but to a pretty negligible extent! Since the centre of the orbit paths would still be inside the sun though. Of course, Quest is right - as much as i hate to admit it. Feel free to define Earth as the central point for everything, or - more appropriately - take the game programming approach: The camera (ie you) is static, and the whole world moves around it.

Much easier to render on screen... much more tedious to apply conventional physics to.

Oh, and i hate to be one of those wierdos who goes around correcting people needlessly, but i was just a bit embarassed:

its "to all intents and purposes"
no intensive anything. Sorry, i just couldnt resist