American Conspiracy: Why Does the World Hate Us? - Is The Hate Planned or Earned?

Originally posted by Leo Strauss

D Day would have been off until the Atomic bomb was released on the Reich. Where were all those scientists from that came up with that bomb? Oh yeah Europe.

Robert Oppenheimer "The Father of the Atomic Bomb" was born in the United States. Robert Serber, who assisted him in the Manhattan Project on nuclear diffusion, was born in Philadelphia. Without getting into boring detail, numerous other United States citizens collaborated in the efforts at Los Alamos, Oak Ridge and Hanford. They were also joined and invaluably aided by many Europeans who fled their homelands prior to World War II.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
NEFEMORE, sorry to burst your bubble but the US did not save Europe in WW2

Its Neformore.

And if you looked at my location it says Yorkshire, England. Thats because I'm English.

And if you read my post again, properly this time - and all the way through - you will actually understand what I'm trying to say, I hope, because you have totally and utterly and completely missed the point I was making.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Leo Strauss

D Day would have been off until the Atomic bomb was released on the Reich. Where were all those scientists from that came up with that bomb? Oh yeah Europe.

Robert Oppenheimer "The Father of the Atomic Bomb" was born in the United States. Robert Serber, who assisted him in the Manhattan Project on nuclear diffusion, was born in Philadelphia. Without getting into boring detail, numerous other United States citizens collaborated in the efforts at Los Alamos, Oak Ridge and Hanford. They were also joined and invaluably aided by many Europeans who fled their homelands prior to World War II.

It's all how you look at something. See you say "joined" I would say recruited ...well at least you said "invalualbly". Oppenheimers role like America's is overblown.

Don't get me wrong our Nation shifted the balance of power during both World Wars. But let's face it the Allies and all lovers of liberty needed one another to overcome fascism. I just get so tired of ignorant jingoistic huffing and puffing! The kind of talk which demands I accept that the US single handedly defeated the Axis.

Originally posted by Leo Strauss
I just get so tired of ignorant jingoistic huffing and puffing! The kind of talk which demands I accept that the US single handedly defeated the Axis.

I completely agree with you in regards to the huffing and puffing, it is unneeded and unseemly. Anyone who feels that lording our help in the two World Wars proves a point only promotes the sentiment of ugly Americanism.

It may be a matter of debate whether Europe would have ever thrown off the shackles of Nazism if not for our help. I further agree with you once more and feel we could not have defeated the Axis powers without the help of our allies in both material and manpower.

Not to derail the post but what is your basis for stating that Oppenheimers contribution to the Manhattan Project was overstated?



[edit on 29-10-2007 by AugustusMasonicus]

[edit on 29-10-2007 by AugustusMasonicus]

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
[Not to derail the post but what is your basis for stating that Oppenheimers contribution to the Manhattan Project was overstated?

Just that Oppenheimer had more of a managerial role. Enrico Fermi(Italian) and Leo Szilard(Hungarian) brought the monster to life.

Again not to diminish the American role. Leo Szilard convinced Einstein to send a letter to Roosevelt to fund the project. Without any of the players the project would not have happened.

Excellent post, SimiusDei.

Far more pleasurable to read than those of the "US kicks ass" variety ... I just attribute those posts to teenage boys tbh ... and US teenage boys are much the same as Brit teenage boys ... testosterone fueled with brains between their legs. And best ignored.

I don't think the US is hated. I know it isn't. No-one I know hates the US or its people. Maybe I don't get out much

But something has changed over the last decade & it's a change I see in myself & others - and for the love of me I don't know the cause. And I'm a bit frustrated because it's difficult finding the words to explain what's happened.

The USA is no longer special. It's lost something. That spark which set it apart from every other nation. It's gone. When I was young, the US was the place to be. Not only did it have everything ... everything was bigger too. We saw Americans as successful, better off than us in every respect ... financially, culturally, morally ... every "ally" you could think of. That's gone now. Totally. It might not seem much to loose ... a few stupid Europeans thinking differently about the US (who cares, huh ?) ... but it's such an enormous change in the public mood over here.

What in God's name has gone wrong ? I can't pin it down on one single thing.

I've got theories ... no more than that ... Iraq/Bush for starters ... the loss of moral supremacy ... rendition & torturing prisoners along with hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians dead ... the loss of democratic supremacy - blacks being turned away from voting booths (if some ever got a chance to vote at all), hanging chads, Diebold machines & allegedly stolen elections, the loss of financial supremacy ... perhaps the dawning realisation that the American Dream was no dream at all ... just borrow borrow and borrow again, lecture the world about how great the US system is then squander the lot ... and now the US, financially at least, is about to be weighed in the balance and be found wanting ... and perhaps too the loss of a European generation which regarded the US as the greatest liberator on earth ... and the sacrifice of the US during WW2 passing from recent memory and into the history books.

But even all that doesn't explain it. Most Europeans couldn't give a monkeys about any of the above. But yet most now look at the US differently and less favourably too. Could it be the emergence of a European consciousness, that the EU has passed from being a simple trading area to being a formidable political and economic powerhouse ? A superpower in the making ? That we're now not thinking as French or Germans or Spaniards but as Europeans ? And that the 21st Century won't be American at all, but more probably European, Chinese or Indian .. or NAU ... or a combination of all four ? Perhaps.

I dunno. Times are a changing. And the US has lost something very special. It's lost the hearts and minds of the rest of us.

I don't hate America or Americans at all. I don't know anyone who does.

But I do hear that there are people who do.
I think the haters do have an agenda.

Nothing is more cowardly than people who hide behind being a British or Australian for instance, spouting their hatred and spewing anti-american rhetoric but when you dig further you find that they are actually originally from the Middle East and who's political views and true loyalty still belongs to the mother land.
They hide behind being Westerners by geography only.
On the internet your nationality and race heritage is anonymous and secret.
Which is why I don't it all so seriously. You really never know the political agenda of the person who's posting without knowing that important bit of background information.

reply to post by Niall197


Very very well put, I agree with 95% of your post and that hasn't happened in a very long time. Thank you very much for putting it the way you did instead of a Attack like some people do. I truly think you are on to something. if they had the old Wats system in place I would have voted for you. Instead I gave you a star.

I do believe that we are not down and out and when we get the present batch of crooks out of office we can start the process of rebuilding. all tho we will never please every body even those that hate us can and do call on us and we help.

I would like to give you one of my thoughts on the decline of the feeling twords America. I believer the conspiracy theorist in this country and all they say hurts us. it makes us look bad. people from out side come to awesome sites like ATS and see tons of people say hay this is a evil secret and that is a evil secret every thing is a evil secret. Are there conspiracy's? yep there are, are there as many as some people would have us believe. No there is not. Some people just have too much time on there hands.

Well thats my opinion take it for what its worth.

Flighty I have to give you a thanks as well. So many people use threads like this as an excuse to spread hate. You haven chosen not to that means a lot to me and a lot of other Americans on here who are sick of defending every single thing we do and being told we do no good and only evil. thanks again to all who have chosen to be constructive instead of destroying.

[edit on 29-10-2007 by angryamerican]

To all those American's on this thread who keep whinging on about how you saved our sorry asses during world war 2. YOU!!! saved nothing. The contribution your grandparents made did and we will always be grateful to them, not you. You and your corrupt government only start wars.

America’s Armageddonites - The truth about America

www.fpif.org... Disturbing article, yet so true.

How can anyone have respect for people who are literally willing the destruction of this planet, simply to fulfill some lame prophecy. These People belong in a padded cell, not in positions of authority or power.

I think Putin summed up the Bush admin when he said in a recent speech. "They are like madmen wielding razor-blades." Touche!!!

I don't hate American's. I just think you can do so much better.

Something all of you America Haters might want to consider?

If the US had adopted a pacifist “hands off” attitude for the rest of the world? Where would Europe be right now? They’d be crushed under the iron boot of the Japanese / Nazi hegemony with the ovens going full blast as Hitler and his minions try to eradicate so called undesirables from every country on the continent. South Korea, the Philipines and probably Australia would be part of Japan. Japan would own the Pacific Rim.

The main problem with this board is the apparent ages of most of the posters. Few of you take any lesson from history. The US has always stood up to dictators and tyranny while Europe (and our own democrats) tend to want to bury their collective heads in the sand (or elsewhere) and hope problems go away.

You may “hate” us…but we (or our fathers) were there when you needed us during WW1 and WW2. We pulled out all the stops to help when the Tsunami hit Indonesia, the Berlin Airlift, reconstruction in Tokyo, AIDS research in Africa. Feeding the starving in Kosovo, Somalia and Haiti. You can call this inteventionism and “poo-poo” it, but it helps a lot of people.

But you know what?…we’ll still be there to assist and help an ungrateful world. Wherever aid is needed. Cause that’s just the way America is.

Raf

Angry how do you think the world views the current plans of the US/Israel to attack Iran possibly with nukes. Do you not realise that the mere fact that there is talk of such actions turns people against you and your country.

Nobody is interested in what good you have done or may do when events such as these are being planned. If you could just see clear of your they hate America issue you would see the real issues and that is things like PNAC, a document that openly states Americas ambitions for global conquest, well you may be the borg but we dont want to be assimilated.

Its time to face up to the actions of your Goverment its people and its policies and time to drop the oh everybody blames us for everything, no you get blamed for the things you have done, how many killed in Vietnam and for what, how many dead in Iraq, Afganistan, planned attacks on Iran the list is endless yet your still in denial. Rather than being honest you and others like you seek to label people such as myself to cover your real views.

Look its easy I thought the BE was great I was brought up to think like that, well no it was not because we killed millions, robbed people of their lives, traditions natural wealth etc, like all parasite empries the strong feed off the weak is that right no its not. And I'm sick to death of hearing its human nature we no its not actually, its circumstances controlled by the few inflicted on the many for power and greed, as you me and plenty of others have pointed out the average joe just wants to live a long peacful life as evidenced by the fact that we dont go around killing our neighbours do we.

Its a choice you either support your Goverment and its actions or you speak out in protest against those actions.

reply to post by Raf_50


If the US had adopted a pacifist “hands off” attitude for the rest of the world there would've been any wide spread nazism in Germany and any wide spread communism in Russia in the first place because of a lack of funding. Follow the money trail and you will see who sponsored these two... People in the U.S..... Follow it even deeper you will see that it's wealthy European and U.S. bankers who where ultimately behind of it all.

Originally posted by kindred
To all those American's on this thread who keep whinging on about how you saved our sorry asses during world war 2. YOU!!! saved nothing. The contribution your grandparents made did and we will always be grateful to them, not you. You and your corrupt government only start wars.

America’s Armageddonites - The truth about America

www.fpif.org... Disturbing article, yet so true.

How can anyone have respect for people who are literally willing the destruction of this planet, simply to fulfill some lame prophecy.

These People belong in a padded cell, not in positions of authority or power.

This is an interesting argument. Are you infering that because we, as Americans, live in a country that is currently engaged in conflicts in Afghanastan and Iraq we are all war-mongering Christian fundamentalists? A rather broad brush to paint all 300 million of the United States citizens with. By the same stroke being that our oldest and closest ally, The United Kingdom, is aiding us in both endeavours does that make all citizens of Britain war-mongerers as well? When a radical fundementalist imam preaches hatred from his London mosque and terrorists who reside in the United Kingdom are involved in a foiled plot to attack US bound jetliners does that make all members of your country the same? I think not......

Granted part of your arguement, if I am infering correctly, is the United States government is attempting to fulfill an 'end times' prophecy. I think this a bit difficult for me to digest as only a small portion of the administration is Evangelical Christians. The portion of the country that is does indeed exert influence in electing leaders but is mostly nullified in general elections by their counterparts on the left who are secular or do not prescribe to their radical position.

If you read closely the majority of the responses here have been moderated, lucid and introspective in regards our countries short-comings, both recent and historical, and they have been equally moderated in addressing our assistance in both Worlds Wars.

Well said bandit, its what I have been saying all along and all I get is you hate America and Americans rather than dealing with the real issues.

reply to post by TheBandit795


I did some research to see if I could locate evidence of the United States funding the rise of communism in the former Soviet Union and came up empty-handed. I did however come across articles indicating we helped fight against communism on the side of the White Russians. Perhaps you can direct me to where you found this information?


Article on Siberean Expidition

Originally posted by kindred
To all those American's on this thread who keep whinging on about how you saved our sorry asses during world war 2. YOU!!! saved nothing. The contribution your grandparents made did and we will always be grateful to them, not you. You and your corrupt government only start wars.

America’s Armageddonites - The truth about America

www.fpif.org... Disturbing article, yet so true.

How can anyone have respect for people who are literally willing the destruction of this planet, simply to fulfill some lame prophecy.

These People belong in a padded cell, not in positions of authority or power.

I think Putin summed up the Bush admin when he said in a recent speech. "They are like madmen wielding razor-blades." Touche!!!

I don't hate American's. I just think you can do so much better.

I never knew my grandfather because he was killed in the Pacific. So please save me from the "you didn't make any sacrafices" BS. I heard he was a great man, funny, and loving. I will never know that for myself.

reply to post by XBadger


I think he's meaning any of us who didn't serve in or live through WW2 ... that we ourselves haven't made any sacrifice. My Grandad died in WW2 in France - he was never found unfortunately.

His service & death wasn't my sacrifice, it was his. That's why I never say "we this" or "we that" because I was born in 1966. I can be truelly grateful for those who gave their all serving - on all sides - that we might be free.

But it wasn't my war. Or yours.

Very nice thread Simius: well thought out and nicely penned intro.

No doubt that America's foreign policy is one of the prime reasons for a lot of the anger projected against the American people, however, here's another take on it...

The human ego cannot bear the thought that it may be 'less than' any other.

When one ego, or group of egos, or in this case national ego, sets itself above the others and proclaims itself or acts 'more than', it is human nature for the others to attempt to knock it down.

You can call this hate if you like, and certainly, hate is one way it's expressed.

The posts by FlyersFan and the invoked responses are a perfect example of this. One ego saying it is better than the others, provoking the others to attempt to knock it down.

America's problem is its humungous ego. However, that's also one of the things that made the US into such a powerful nation, and a pretty great place to live in many respects.

The American culture of superiority is cultivated and perpetuated by MSM, hollywood, school system and society in general.

Like others have posted, all imperialistic states do this. Born and raised in Britain, I have first hand experience of the incredible pomposity of the English. If you've ever lived in France, you'll have experienced the French version which is pure arrogance. The Italians have their vanity, the Russians their pride - each nation its own variation of superiority. America has perfected the art of obnoxiousness

Eventually, perhaps sooner than later, America will fall, and it will be a great shock to most John an Jane US citizens, who will wonder what happened to the 'Greatest Nation on Earth'. It'll be a real hard lesson, and a lot won't make it.

Better to embrace humility now, it's the only safe way in the long run.

reply to post by TheBandit795


Bandit,

Perhaps you could point out this supposed "money trail"?

In any case, because the US is a free society, there have always been citizens and non-citizens funding causes that were less than Democratic or well meaning.

Still goes on today. On one side we have so called Arab Charities funneling money to terrorist groups and then we have on the other side of the coin foreign businessmen or dignitaries (re: George Soros) funneling tons of money into the American political system in an effort to get a US President that he approves of. But as the 2 previous elections have shown, it takes more than money to sway an election….or fund a movement.

Hitler was Germany’s creation as Stalin was the Russia’s. Both men played on the inherent evils of their societies to ram their form of government down the throats of the masses. And made their people like it…to a point. But to say that the US government funded the rise of these regimes is wrong.

Raf

Originally posted by geemony
Why are we so hated by many muslim governments?
I dont think we are hated persay as a people.

Why don't' you think the people in the many countries hates the citizens of the US for not preventing their government from killing millions of people all over the world for no reason other than control over their various societies and social orders? If people do not hate their oppressors that is because people are either unaware, understand that it does not help to hate other ignorant people or more likely because human beings are not all that vindictive and rarely hates people they do not personally know.

I think the main reason radical islam hates America is becasue of what we stand for.

Actually they make a point , even OBL, about the fact that they hate the US foreign policy with some feeling that they only way to make Americans aware of what their government is doing is by blowing them up. Radical Islam is certainly not nearly as radical as radical Christianity and normally with far better reason when it approaches the same type of lunacy.

Freedom? not nessesarily, but what freedom brings. I.E. Womens rights,

The Afghans had a leadership, supported by the USSR, that were giving women seats in Afghan parliament but were attacked and bombed by the US supported few fanatic wealthy land owners who did their best to appeal to religious convictions to in fact just defend their property and fight the the social changes that would have resulted in people having more rights and thus being far less inclined to work for slave wages. There may be fanatics out there but they are far rarer than is advertised.

Equal rights for all citizens and just a plethura of rights radical islam says are evils against allah.

Which are also things radical Christianity and others think are 'evil' and against 'God's wishes as interpreted by them from the dozen of times translated and edited 'good book'. The fact is that these radicals seem to be mostly supported by major world powers and that they would not have had much if any power in their countries if the common people of those countries had anything to do with it. The religious leaders of Iran and Saudi Arabia derives their power directly from US assassinations of the peoples original candidates and if you check the histories of most countries you will find that the religious leaders seem to always find friends in imperial capitalist sponsors of OTHER faiths. It's a disturbing but very fascinating subject matter that you would be well advised to look into.

Its fear of the unknown IMO. I feel its more about radical islam keeping its people under the boot and slaves basically to the ruling class.

It's fear of the known and the social changes that will result when people are allowed to choose the leaders they wish. Since the people of the Middle East are rarely allowed to vote for anyone but apparent religious fundamentalist what should we expect them to end up with? In the end this religious fundamentalism is just a subset of the class struggle as you will find the main proponents and propagators to be quite wealthy and normally with great political power to boot.

If America brings its freedoms to the middle east then the mullas and radical fundamentalist would lose thier power over the populace.

Their power over their populations either stems from the intelligence agencies, corporate states or pure corporations and if they had no such outside support their people would either get rid of them or at least force them into a very docile position. The problem with current US sabre rattling and invasion is that it is driving people right into the arms of the fundamentalist that already their power , and sometimes mere existence, to those same imperialist making the threats. This system is set up so that the people and their organizations are always those who suffers first and most with their wealthy imperial sponsored religious fundamentalist leaders waiting in deep bunkers to pick up the shattered pieces of their countries thus ensuring that they gain even more power over their devastated societies. As with the majority of wars these are class wars with the religious content merely included to fool those who have been propagandized into believing that they will have a good life after their wealthy religious leaders helped to rob them blind in the only life we can be relatively sure about.

The People would get a taste of the freedom to choose for themselves whats good and bad, and prob fight for it once they have had it for a time.

That's what they have been doing for milenia and while we have made real progress we are still fighting the same old enemies using the same old ploys to get us fighting each other instead of those who are killing us. .

I think this is the fight now going on in IRAQ. Bin laden , IRAN and other radical forms of islamic government see American freedoms as a threat to thier continued power.

They have no continued power without the threat of invasion and worse...

if thier people embrace freedom fully then they will be no longer be in control of the populations.

So you think oppressed people do not like freedom? Do you think people who knows what their up against are all foolish enough to get themselves killed by standing up against a system that is being supported by so many western powers knowing that they will be branded the communist, traitors, terrorist and worse? Do you think people like endangering their lives further by antagonizing and acting against their oppressive systems when they still see a means of surviving the oppression by just keeping to themselves as best they can?

This is why they fight us so hard IMO. And becasue IRAQ was under the boot of Saddam for so long its going to take years for IRAQ to fully intergrate freedom in thier society.

my 2

Freedom is easy enough to handle and if it was so very difficult to either do or bring about the US would not have had to stage so many dozens of coups and invasions and thousands of bribes and threats to leaders all over the world. I freedom did not come about naturally why do they have to keep fighting it at every turn? Why does everyone seem to want it?

Stellar