Cannibalism, could you or wouldn't you

Imagine this... (really try to put yourself in these posistions)

You are trapped at sea with a crew of 11 other people without nothing to eat or drink. NOTHING. After TWO weeks 4 people have died and were burried at sea.
The remaining 7 of you are near death and have been for a while. One more body dies and is laying on the small boat before the rest of you toss him over.
Someone says that something needs to be done... you all need to EAT something or everyone is going to die before any help comes. Its a matter of survival. life or death. The only option you and the rest of the crew has to survive is to butcher the dead, drink the blood and eat the flesh.

You, your family, and some friends are traveling on foot across the mountains (i don't know why). There are 18 total and out of no where, the largest snow storm ever is comming through the mountains. It stops everything.
25 ft snow drifts cover all the trails and paths. There is nothing you can do. The ONLY option is to stay there, make camp, and try to wait it out. At least untill the snow melts a little.
With 18 of you, several are able to hunt and find wood for fires. Several weeks go by and 6 of the men are dead from exhaustion and starvation (they burned the most calories working and there wasn't enough food to supply well). After 6 more months there are only 8 of you left. You, 2 Adult males, 2 adult women and 3 children. The food is bareley nothing and for many days at a time no one eats anything.
Eventually 4 more months later it is You, one injured adult male and the 3 children.
Its been almost 2 weeks and you or the children have not had anything to eat... The only meat around is the injured adult male near death. Two days later, still nothing to eat, the children are starting to lay down and your insides are eating your insides; the old injured man has finally passed leaving you and 3 small children.
What do you do? Your expecting help to arive in about 12 days... Your only option to stay alive and to keep these children alive would be to butcher the man and feast on his flesh and meat.

I was watching the history channel last night and they had 2 hours of cannibalism stories and it really got me thinking, if it were a matter of survival, life and death, in extreme situations could I devour a human body? Something to think about...
As discusting as it is.. its still fresh meat and drink.

What do you think?!?!?

IMHO, its all a matter of how badly you want to live.

Its amazing the things you will endure to survive another day.

Would I eat an already deceased person if it meant my survival?

You got a fork?

reply to post by TwiTcHomatic

Would I eat an already deceased person if it meant my survival?

Absolutely not. I would rather die of starvation than live with the fact that I had EATEN another human being..
Theres just no way that I could live a normal, conscience free life with that planted in my mind

Meat is meat. We are all meat when we die. I would eat anything to survive.

I think i could if need be .. I love life . I guess we wont know for sure until in that situation . All our pre conceived notions and those lines that we wont cross fall away when we want to live?

I don't think I could or would. I do not fear death, let it come. If others in my group were keen on surviving a hellish situation, then I would sooner sacrifice myself for the survival of others rather than survive myself.

Situation 1

1) if you were at sea for 2 weeks without water, you'd all be dead anyway

2) Blood is salty, in fact it's drum roll isotonic, so you can't greatly reduce your salinity by drinking it, just increase your volume. So while it would help, and it won't kill you like drinking seawater will, it won't efficiently rehydrate you in the long haul - you will become more and more saline as you lose fresh water to insensible losses and urine. It can help keep you alive if you have SOME fresh water to go along with it. But drinking Mrs Jones' blood won't happen, human blood coagulates very quickly. You could possibly drink fish blood - it's been done successfully in cases where there was some rainwater to drink to go along with the fish blood.

3) In situation 1, you've got other options. I'd be trying to find a way to make a fish hook or spear out of what I had on hand, and use Mrs Jones for bait before I'd fry her up for dinner. It's not safe to eat people, generally, unless you can arrange to cook them, which is sort of chancy on a boat.

Worse comes to worst, you could put a chunk of her overboard and try to attract a small shark. If you're going to butcher them, as you say, someone's got a knife. Make sure you use a lanyard on it so you don't lose it to Davy Jones while you're stobbing the shark.


Situation 2

Well, it can be pretty bare. That's not a bad scenario, though, you should put the dead people where you can find them. They'll keep, unlike scenario 1. Water, no problems. You say you have fire, so you could cook them if you had to; it's a possible food source.

The ice/cold environment rotation is sort of a pain for food. But you say there's a new snow cover, so I'd go trailing animals, which should be pretty straightforward. Most everywhere has SOME sort of animal population, or insects that have sheltered in rock crannies, or some sort of edible plant, even if you have to scrape rock tripe (bleah).

In a span of several months, though, I'd be expecting some breaks in the weather and I'd be moving down the slope to a more game-abundant area, and that would be that. No point staying above the woodline or something. You can always move, drifts or no, it's just harder that way and you'd have to pack the kids out.

In the early '70's, I worked at the Yellowknife airport and got to know a certain bush pilot by the name of Martin Hartwell. A very pleasant, friendly man that most of us who worked there liked a lot.

What happened was that he refused to NOT fly during a particularly harsh blizzard when a boy with a possible bursting appendix needed to get to the Stanton Hospital from a distant settlement in the far north of Canada's Northwest territories.

Here's the Wiki story;

Martin Hartwell was a Canadian bush pilot. On November 8, 1972 Hartwell was given a charter to fly from Cambridge Bay, N.W.T. with three passengers; a pregnant Inuk woman, a 12 year old Inuk boy named David Pisurayak Kootook (who was suffering from appendicitis) and an attending government nurse named Judy Hill. The plane Hartwell was flying was en route to Yellowknife where his passengers could receive medical care at the local hospital.

Some time after taking off from Cambridge Bay during a fierce storm, the plane crashed into a hillside near Lake Hota. Judy Hill and the pregnant woman were killed instantly, but Hartwell and the young boy survived the crash, although both of Hartwell's legs were broken. For weeks the two survived the brutally harsh weather where the average temperature was minus 35 degrees Fahrenheit (−37 degrees Celsius), and Kootook was instrumental in the pair's survival by gathering firewood for a small warming fire and by cutting pieces of flesh off of the body of Judy Hill for their sustenance.

en.wikipedia.org...

Interesting thread, SMJ.

Question: how would YOU have handled this situation?


[edit on 13/10/07 by masqua]

I think it's easy to say, in the comfort of our homes, with a stocked fridge and pantry, that we wouldn't cannibalize. That would be the normal response in a well-fed, comfortable human.

But the will to life is stronger than moral scruples. If push came to shove and there was no way to get food -- no way at all for whatever reasons -- and we were isolated and there were handy corpses available, most, if not all of us, would do what we had to in order to survive.

Upon the breaking down of your body to feed itself, moral scruples go out the window and our reptile brains take over for survival.

I hate to say it, but if I was stuck in (say) the Andes after a plane crash with a bunch of dead soccer players and an injury that prevented me from moving to a place I could find some food, I have no doubt that I'd be snacking on the pilot before I starved to death. It's the nature of the beast that is our survival instinct.

reply to post by masqua


I guess the kid got better?

That would really have sucked - to have the kid set you up to survive, then die leaving you trapped with broken legs in the plane.

Edit - in a general case, no, I wouldn't have any qualms about eating someone that was already dead, if it came to it and there was no other food to be had.

If they weren't "gone over" and I could cook them, that is, it's generally not considered safe to eat raw people.

I mean, they're dead, it's not like you're going to hurt them. You get hungry enough, you'll eat a lot of stuff you wouldn't normally consider.

[edit on 13-10-2007 by Tom Bedlam]

The human body in peak physical fitness can last up to 3 months without food (4 months if you like to die slowly) - however without water you probably wouldn't last more than a few days tops.

Regardless, i could die in quite a calm and graceful manner if i deemed it appropiate, so i guess the question for me would be "Would you let someone else cannibalise you?".

reply to post by Tom Bedlam


Hartwell was rescued. The kid died 1 day before he would have been rescued.

Bitter end to that story.

Eat the kid first, its more tender. You are simply consuming muscle tissue unless you revere the insides as most of the population does on this planet. The human tissue is closely related to pigs, that is why scientist are trying to implant various pig organs into humans, so I would imagine a human would taste like pork?

reply to post by TwiTcHomatic


Wow, now that is sad.

Especially given that they were out there for a long time. Made it that far and died just before rescue.

About the only time I've been in a position where I thought things might go bad and I also had time to contemplate it, I was with a friend, we had been out diving somewhere and the 'dive boat' had been forced off station by someone showing up unexpectedly, followed by a sudden bad turn in weather which set up a really hard to predict surface current, about 5 knots worth.

We didn't know what had happened, so we finished what we were doing, which took a while, and when we returned to where the boat had been, the drag rope was on the bottom. We surfaced into something like 25 foot waves, rain, lightning etc. Very nasty, and we were a bit past the end of our bottom time, and had been expecting to make a long safety stop on the way up hanging on the line with some spare tanks.

Alas.

We rode Davy Jones' roller coaster for a while, looking for the boat. Nothing. We tied a short line to each other so we wouldn't drift, and just laid back and enjoyed the ride. Eventually it got dark, and we were alone in the middle of nowhere in the Caribbean. Woot! No water, no food, no boat.

After we got squared away, mostly the conversation was about had we done something avoidable that was really stupid, so that we'd die in shame (we decided we hadn't) or if we'd do something embarrassing after baking in the sun for long enough, or if we'd have the misfortune to die an hour before the rescue if it took long enough.

The stuff that runs through your mind at times like that is really weird. But definitely dying just before your rescue was on the crap list.

reply to post by masqua

Question: how would YOU have handled this situation?

I wouldve buried the dead with respect (if I was able to) and did the best that I could to survive in a tough situation.
Some of you will say things like how its easy to sit back on the computer and speculate what we may or may not do in a situation but you only speak for yourself, not me.
I can guaranty you that I would NEVER resort to eating another person, regardless of the circumstances.

[edit on 10/13/2007 by Kr0n0s]

reply to post by Kr0n0s


Some people can't, I suppose, at least some have died in similar situations.

A bit of practice, though, and you can eat all sorts of things you wouldn't expect. Bugs with long legs, like grasshoppers, were hardest for me, but facing up to some mildly-aged roadkill is hard for everyone. I hear they've added a sheep's eye soup challenge now. That would be tough, visually. (pun intended)

I'd eat your dog in a blink, if it came down to it, and have eaten dog; some people are squeamish about THAT.

But what's so different between eating a dead person, and eating, say, monkey? It's not like you're in there anymore.

edit: I grant you, if it came down to eating strangers or friends, I'd start with the strangers.

[edit on 13-10-2007 by Tom Bedlam]

Now the stories i watched last night were pretty incredible to see how long a human body will survive (whether out at sea or not).
One of the sea ones took place with cubans leaving cuba trying to get to the US. To this day they won't aknowlege it. They ate one person and they won't tell his name. Some say it happend, some say it didn't. Eating another person is never on top of everyones list.
But you know whats really sick, some of the stranded groups who had to resort to cannibalism, drew stras... ya... some didn't wait for a person to die... it was more like "ok we are going to starve so lets draw stras to determine who ends up the next meal"

They were also saying that members of the groups who protest, end up diving on in when the body is butchered and ready to go, because yeah it is the only way to survive.

However sitting watching that last night... i feel the same as most of you..

Im not afraid of death no, but if it were the last hope, the person was already dead, then yea meat is meat. The human race has to do anything to survive.

actually to watch these are really different.. they really open up the mind
History Channel
Cannibalism: secrets revealed
and
Cannibalism: extreme survival

Correct, the human race has to do anything to survive, however the individuals thereof should not be confused about the difference between their part of it and how important that part is.

The majority of us play no important role in the ultimate mortality of our species, and those that do probably aren't aware of it.

To an extent, the little things matter - like how you raise your children or the various ideological standpoints you take in life; these different mentalities will affect those around you, and in a societal sense the human race cannot exist unless humans teach each other how to live life.

Should we consider eating each other in a survival situation? Well... i cannot recall it happening in nature (apart from when bulls eat the young of rivals or when a mother kills the young due to it being a runt), but humans transcend nature - so no doubt about that.

As for whether it is right to is a matter of opinion, or an ideological standpoint even.

I know that i would sooner die then eat another human, carcass or otherwise - and i would give sooner my body to nature as opposed to allowing another to eat my own flesh.

Perhaps one of humankind's ultimate goals is to overcome the fear of death, as after all this is always going to be the one greatest subversion that can be used against us - i.e; do this or that or Die.

I do not fear my own death, only the death of my fellow human brethren.

reply to post by SimplyMaryJane


That is one of the main reasons why that nobody should ever resort to cannibalism.
Besides the fact that it is completely disgusting it is also just morally wrong in every way.
Once a civilized group of people morally sink that low then the rest of their principles go flying out the door.
Initially they'll cook up the first one that dies, then when thats all gone, everyone's healthy and nobody else dies. Now that the initial stigma around eating your neighbor is gone, some people wont think twice before murdering someone for their next meal.
After all, whats one persons life, when the entire groups survival is at stake?
Where does it stop?
I can tell you with certainty that if I were in a group survival situation and even the hint of cannibalism came up and it were possible, I would leave the group..
If we were on an island or whatever, Id get as far away from them as possible. Thats just an area that I would never, ever tread into..

I know that i would sooner die then eat another human, carcass or otherwise - and i would give sooner my body to nature as opposed to allowing another to eat my own flesh.

EXACTLY, me too..
That is one of the reasons that I would leave the group, so that if/when I did die I would crawl off in a hole somewhere so those sick people wouldnt be able to find me to eat me.

[edit on 10/13/2007 by Kr0n0s]

In the situations we're discussing, the people NEEDED to eat or they'd stave to death.... they did not go around killing people because they thought it was fun / tasted nice, in order to survive they HAD to eat someone ALREADY dead, or else they'd die.

If someone was already dead, yes I would cannabalise them, or else I could die. Better one dead than two.

[edit on 14/10/07 by JimmyCarterIsSmarter]