The Pope Versus the President

The Pope Versus the President

www.alternet.org

The Vatican's recent snub of Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is only the latest salvo in the battle between Pope Benedict XVI and President George W. Bush. This tug of war has profound implications for both U.S. foreign policy and the critical Catholic vote in 2008's presidential race.
after Bush visited the Vatican in June 2004, complaining that "Not all the American bishops are with me," Ratzinger sent a letter to US bishops, ordering them to refuse Communion to "a Catholic politician …

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One of my main bugbears about the catholic church - Why on earth do they always stick their nose into politics that don't concern them.

They are not an elected entity - the president is (kind of).

Interestingly, Bush had no problem when they supported him for his second term.
The church even went as far as to imply that anyone voting for Kerry should be refused communion.

I'm no lover of Bush, or his warmongering ways, but this is unwarrented interference by the Vatican - still, though, if you invite them in, don't be surprised when they go further than you wanted them to.


www.alternet.org
(visit the link for the full news article)

Excelent post IMO.This is a very important article to study closely.Who knows what is really happening behind the scenes.
DWT

reply to post by budski


Oh dear friend - the Pope and the Vatican are far more involved than you know.

If you research the Jesuits, or the Society of Jesus, you will (maybe) find that their roots and their connections spread to some very bad people who were involved in some very bad events.

Families like Rockefeller or Rothschild. Organizations like Bilderberg or CFR. European Union, North American Union, Nazis. The Federal Reserve.

Everywhere, everything.

They are deeply rooted in politics. They've been around a very long time. Most US Presidents have been controlled by them.

Follow the money. Follow the blood lines. Follow the connections. You'll find some very interesting stuff.

The Vatican and Pope aren't innocent. I don't know when this religious appearance gave someone complete immunity from any checks and balances or suspicion of criminal activity, but clearly it was a very clever cover, because I bet if you went outside and started yelling the Pope is set to be the world's dictator, you'd probably get things thrown at you.

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi

I understand about the role of the church in earlier times, but had no idea it still went on today.

The church have long been sticking their nose it when it doesn't belong, but it should not be happening in this day and age.

Maybe The United States has a concordat with Rome. It is possible, as Reagan re-instituted communications with the Holy See in 1984/1985. Communications were cut after the Lincoln Assassination.

[edit on 11-10-2007 by deessell]

edit: I also 'heard' that Daddy did something wrong, and as punishment he lost a lot of money - the Wanta money. That's why he was crying?

[edit on 11-10-2007 by deessell]

i think the Catholic Church's ongoing Pedophile issues winding it's
way through the U.S. courts & Appellate Courts has a bearing on
the Pope's being a 'thorn-in-the-side'... of Bush, Rice, et al.

As a side note, here's another example of the churches active involvement in a "dirty" role
news.bbc.co.uk...

The question is, did head office know?
probably....

I feel the christian thing for the church to do would be to sell all its assets, its works of art, gold treasuries, ancient buildings and all its lands and with the money they could house the homeless, help against the destruction Aids has caused in africa partly due to the non use of contraceptives. They could sponsor students to become doctors invest in hospitals and help people who suffer in life. The church has the means to improve this life for millions but it sits on its wealth and asks for more, it's by and large a vulgar institution which is a sad shame because it is filled with some of the most compassionate kindest people on the planet who really do not need a go between to feel close to god. Every single time religion pokes its nose into politics i despair, because i feel it to be even more corrupt than the politicians themselves.

though the church does sponsor a lot of good causes it is no where near the level they could

Originally posted by budski
but it should not be happening in this day and age.

I agree.

Unfortunately they've been able to hold on to power.

Sometimes I even question how they have so much power, how they control so much, why so many people give in to them, how they've been able to get away with so much etc. But, the information I've seen through research, it leaves little doubt that they're involved on some level.

Just starting to have a closer look and do a bit of research about this - any links would be very welcome.

the Vatican is constantly interfering in American politics without any threat of congressional investigation. And such intervention occurs not only in the United States but across the world.

Since the Vatican’s intervention is almost as top secret as the CIA’s, the following little-known episodes, with one exception, are provided by Catholic writers. These insiders recognize that the Vatican’s actions don’t represent all or even most Roman Catholics. In fact, hundreds of thousands of American Catholics are so opposed to some of the positions of the pope and his U.S. appointees that they regularly vote for candidates who oppose the Vatican’s official line on contraception, abortion, aid to parochial schools, family planning, and other gender-and sex-related issues.

source

PLus:
www.population-security.org...
www.americamagazine.org...
www.questia.com...

More than one side put in on purpose, in order to show the vatican propaganda machine at work in 2nd link above.

reply to post by R-evolve


I'm right there with you. The Catholic church does have the resources to do a lot of good, and I'm sure they do now and again, but I'm also pretty sure they hold a lot back. One word stood out when you said what you did, and that was Christian. You are right.. the "Christian thing to do.." but the Catholic church is not a Christian church in all religious and spiritual technicality. For instance, if you talk to an individual who is Catholic, assuming you didn't know that to begin and say, "hey do you go to church somewhere or may I invite you sometime?" Or maybe you make reference to being a Christian yourself and they'll usually say.. no I'm Catholic. They like to differenciate or be seperate in that regard (maybe because Christian is used so generally today).

A Christian by definition is one that follows after Christ. As the only true knowledge we have from Christ himself comes from the Bible, the Bible is clear one must be "born again"/ "saved"/believe that Christ is the only way to Heaven, and that he paid the price for us all on the cross. Now the problem arises when many other religions like Catholicism, call themselves Christians... because in Christianity it is Christ+ nothing else, where as Catholicism = Christ, Mary, Saints (as determined by the church), Communion, Rosery, Statues and other things contrary to the word of God. I say all this not to offend, but to make like of Biblical truth.

If one does not believe the Bible then everything I just said is basically nonsense. The definition of Christian alone gives everything away, if Christ did not rise again, we would not have Christianity today because his disciples were scattered abroad and persecuted themselves...all knowledge of Jesus Christ would have stayed in the grave.

"Not all the American bishops are with me..."

Should they be? Why is it with me or against me with this President? Evil Doers beware, and all that crap?

Who elected this guy anyway? Oh right...

DocMoreau

reply to post by DocMoreau


The Pope said that not the President.

I don't see much new here except that he didn't want to meet with Condi Rice. I don't really care, I don't know why she wanted to see him anyway.

Any other Catholic I'd be afraid of electing, but the major Catholic in the next race is Rudy Giuliani and I'm 100% he'll tell the Pope to go screw himself if he tries to tell him what to do about any U.S. policy.

reply to post by djohnsto77


Doesn't the fact that he didn't want to see her send a pretty clear message to el presidente about vatican support in the next election for his chosen successor?

reply to post by budski


I don't really think so? I don't think Bush even has a chosen successor, and I doubt the Pope would back Hillary.

reply to post by djohnsto77


The owners of this country, who answer to the Vatican, back every one of the major candidates; Clinton, Obama, Edwards, Romney, Giuliani, F. Thompson, and McCain (I may be forgetting one, not sure). It's up to us, the American people, to decide which one of their puppets we want leading us.

That's why Ron Paul and Kucinich are suppressed. They're not puppets.

Not all, but most political leaders give their backing to someone who they see as being in line with their way of thinking, someone who is likely to be of use to them once they leave office, no?

reply to post by budski


About Jesuits/Vatican, there's no real central location on the net with completely credible information. If that's what you're looking in to, you'll have to grab bits and pieces here and there, match it with historical politics and events, follow the blood lines, connections, and money, all while keeping your BS meter on full strength to be able to weed out the facts and the lies.

Here is a website with a lot of information. Some of it is skeptical. Some of it is lies. Some of it is facts. Some of it can be put in the "well, that's weird - but still coincidence" category.

I don't trust that website completely, but it seems to have the most information of anything I've found.

But still - take it with a grain of salt...or two.

reply to post by budski


as wonderfull as the majority feel the pope to be he has recently said the the catholic church is the only true christian church and that all the rest (protestants)are imposters.his office before becoming pope was that of overseer fot the doctrinal purity of the faith---------this is the new name to replace the old which was head of the "holy"inquisition---------they say he takes his job very seriously-----enough said----use your imaginations.