the shanksville incident flight 93

Here are a few FACTS that blow the cell phone calls and seat back calls out of the air as surely as Flt. 93 was. David Ray Griffen, an eminent theologian, has confirmed from hard evidence at the Moussuai trial that there was only ONE ATTEMPTED CALL made from Barbara Olsons flight, and that was logged at ZERO seconds; there were NO calls that day to Olson from his wife, which the FBI had to admit at the trial.

www.freemarketnews.com...

Here are a few excerpts from that seminal work:

"Even after my book appeared, Popular Mechanics continued to claim, on the basis of very weak evidence, that high-altitude cell phone calls were indeed possible (see the History Channel special, “9/11 Conspiracies: Fact or Fiction”). However, as I reported in the Revised and Updated Edition of my book, the FBI had in 2006 presented, as evidence in the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui (sometimes called “the 20th hijacker”), a report on phone calls from the four airliners. According to this report, there were only two cell phone calls from United 93, and they were made at 9:58, shortly before the plane crashed, when it was down to 5,000 feet. When the FBI had to present evidence in a court of law, therefore, it would not claim that any high-altitude cell phone calls had occurred. (These two low-altitude calls from Flight 93 were, according to the FBI report, the only two cell phone calls made from all four flights".

And : "The most famous of the reported calls from the flights supposedly came from Barbara Olson, the well-known commentator on CNN who was married to Ted Olson, who was then the US solicitor general. Olson reported that his wife had called him twice from American Airlines Flight 77, stating that hijackers with knives and boxcutters had taken over the plane. Besides providing evidence of hijackers, this call also provided the only evidence that Flight 77 was still aloft (it had disappeared from radar and there had been reports of an airliner crash nearby). Although Olson went back and forth on the question of whether his wife had used a cell phone or an onboard phone, he finally settled on the latter.

In Closing: " However, the evidence from the Moussaoui trial ruled out this possibility. In its report on AA 77, it listed one attempted call from Barbara Olson, which was “unconnected” and hence lasted “0 seconds.”

"This was an astounding discovery. The FBI is part of the Department of Justice. And yet it had undercut the testimony of the DOJ’s former solicitor general, saying in effect that the two calls that he reported had never happened. The implication is that unless Ted Olson had, like Deena Burnett, been duped, he had lied. Although this should have produced front-page headlines, it has thus far not been reported by any mainstream publication. "


So, when tit came down to tat, the FBI could not keep slinging the lies that had been spun by the media and the government about the calls, when it came down to swearing under oath, the FBI had to admit that there were only records of TWO calls, the Olson call never getting through, and among all four planes that was the only calls that they had evidence for. That means that Griffen is right and that NO cell phone calls were made, that no records of those calls exist, and that all the talk of proven calls was a staged voice morphing affair, as the FBI admits it has NO evidence of any other calls.

Originally posted by eyewitness86
Here are a few FACTS that blow the cell phone calls and seat back calls out of the air as surely as Flt. 93 was. David Ray Griffen, an eminent theologian, has confirmed from hard evidence at the Moussuai trial that there was only ONE ATTEMPTED CALL made from Barbara Olsons flight, and that was logged at ZERO seconds; there were NO calls that day to Olson from his wife, which the FBI had to admit at the trial.

No, this is not proof of anything other than shoddy journalistic work by those involved.

Yes, the FBI listed on call from Barbara Olson than did not connect.

However, there were also five calls listed as originating from FL 77 that according the the evidence at the Moussaui trial originated from an undetermined source. It is very likely that two of these calls were from Barbara Olson to her husband.

I respectfully suggest that this is the exact type of misinformation that continues to make the truth movement look foolish, in my opinion.

But thanks for your input to this thread. It is appreciated!

In what way is it ' misinformation ' ? It may not have been thorough as far as depth, given the space, but to say it is disinformative is inaccurate at the least.

Attempted calls? Might have been? these are the lengths we have to see presented as evidence by the oficial story believer's..amazing. It is likley? by what standard is it likley that the calls could not have been traced to a number? What are the odds that Barbara Olson, a seasoned businesswoman, would ' just happen ' to forget her credit cards on a business trip ? If so then there must be a record of her paying cash for her tickets, right? And then the FACT remains that the FBI stated that there were only TWO calls that they could trace, and the one attributed to Olson was logged at ZERO seconds, no connection. Is it POSSIBLE that a call was made from Olson to her husband? Sure. Likley? No way given the multitudinous anomalies associated with the phenomenon. Odds keep changing as things happen.

Griffen has painstakingly accumulated and recounted massive proofs of an inside job and controoled demolition, as well as the related issues such as alleged ohone calls, etc. What is the LIKLIHOOD, the odds, of the official story being true? Slim to none, depending on which experts you care to believe. The fact that there are many levels of deception and a coordinated attack done by elements of the shadow government, private copr. elements, foreign ' friendlies ' in the black job areas was accomplished almost to perfection, means that the perps are shrewd and cunning men, committed to their goals.

But no plan this big ever goes perfectly, and we see the gaping holes in the official account and ask questions, while a sadly large number of citizens simply refuse to see the holes..they see something but choose not to recognize it because to do so would cause such consternation that the afflicted person could no longer lead a normal life, the effects would be so profound. Denial is the only real answer to those who fail to see the obvious; it is so plain and clear that it astounds the logical mind to realize that there are people out there who will bend reality to any extent needed to maintain the illusion of security and sanity in a world gone mad and ' leaders ' who are without a doubt traitors, murderers, liars, thieves, and worse.

The political establishment is dominated by special interests and always has been: Huge corporations pay billions to accomodate the politicians, who in turn legislate favorably for the corporations and to the detriment of the people, every time. Then, when some rouge politician comes along, like a Kennedy or a Wellstone, etc., and really scares the world rulers they simply kill them and shift the favor back to them, as always. The common man has absolutely NO influence on the world, his community or anywhere else, as voting is a sham, directed by party lines, and the people who determine global pdon't give a damn what the man on the street thinks, as long as they control the media, they control the thoughts of the masses.

When a radical shift in power structure is desired, by the Neocons in this case, who saw themselves perfectly poised top carry out their nefarious manifesto, whci details the subugation and theft of the worlds resources, primarily in the Middle East, all that is needed is some propaganda and a few lies trumpeted over and over by a compliant press, and you have the wars you need to feed the machines that feed you. Simple.

9-11 was a highly technical and advanced military operation made to look like something else, and it was done well. But on that day with all the war games going on, that is the key to it all..the war games. The entire thing could not have happened without them, they were critical to the plan. The people who were unknowingly taking parts in the overall plan had, and in many cases still do not, have any inkling as to what part their actions played, whether it was real or part of a game..they were intertwined so closely that they meshed at the terminal point only, where a few men could have ;pulled the whole thing off with the proper codes. A few men in an office, in the Pentagon, or so bigshot private corp..but in any case, there is NO doubt that it is an inside job, thats apparent.

Originally posted by robert z

No, this is not proof of anything other than shoddy journalistic work by those involved.

Funny and sad you keep stating everybody is wrong but can never show any actual facts or evidence. Its all talk.

I have always had the feeling, since the first day, that flight 93 was shot down. I am no expert. However, having compared pics from other plane crashes, the lack of any sizable debris just doesn't make sense.
How large of a missle would it take too completely destroy this plane. Taking into consideration, the amount of fuel that would have been on the plane and that two passengers (obviously, in question) reported to family members by phone calls that there could have been a bomb aboard.
Having served in the AF, I can understand that a decision to shoot down a plane before it reached population or it's likely target would be a tough one with passengers aboard. This pilot would have the events of the day already in his head though, so knowing that this plane was most likely on it's way to a high profile target, which would make the choice a little easier.
I believe, the passengers were aboard the plane and a few of them did take matters into their own hands. Though their brave actions took too long, and time would have been of the utmost importance.
Let me reitterate, I am no expert and this is just my opinion...
I know alot of brave souls died that day and many survived. If the pilot that let loose those missiles, never comes forward, it would be to preserve the memory of the "Let's roll" group that tried to stop that flight... and simply couldn't.
I believe, there were alot of sinister forces at work that day, but none sinister enough to unload a group of people from a doomed flight to take them out somewhere and dispose of them...
MHO

Originally posted by craig732

Originally posted by robert z
Miller collected both body parts and plane parts from the scene and identified the human remains, matching the body parts with the victims.

www.post-gazette.com...

www.post-gazette.com...

I would be interested to hear Mr. Lear's comments regarding this.

Actually, I would like to hear comments on this from everyone who feels a plane didn't crash in Shanksville.

Mr. Lear usually responds to all questions directed to him; I am guessing he missed this one so I am bumping it.

reply to post by robert z

Another eyebrow-raising portion of the official account of Flight 93 states that "the passengers and flight crew began a series of calls from GTE airphones and cellular phones" after the hijacking. Ever forgotten to turn off your cellphone during a flight? I have. Try it yourself: Cellular telephone calls tend to drop when you're driving at 60 miles per hour; passenger jets travel up to ten times that speed. Moreover, there's zero signal, and thus no ability to place a call, above 8,000 feet. Flight 93, en route from Newark to San Francisco at a cruising altitude of 35,000 feet, dropped 700 feet when it was hijacked at 9:28 am. Cell calls? Not likely

ever try to make a call on a cell phone from a plane? i have just to prove that it could be done. i had my phone on all the way from phila, to chicago. pretty much the same route,huh? never once did i even get a hint of service. i tried it in both directions. we flew at 26000 ft not the 35000 ft that 93 was supposed to be at. oh and by the way, that was last july(2006),so the technology was better than it was in 2001. according to the facts i read there was a .006% chance of connecting a call from that altitude. ok i know whats next... maybe they weren't that high... well i waited to see where i got service, and it was at about 1500 ft, coming into the airport...don't you think it a little odd that these people were making and connecting calls right after the aircraft was hijacked???
as monty python would say "go on ,pull the other one!"

link to the full article
www.commondreams.org...

so next time you're on a flight call me

[edit on 16-10-2007 by Spectre0o0]

Originally posted by johnlear

There is no evidence of any kind that UAL #93 crashed in Shanksville or anyplace else thank you. There are no parts, no engines, no wings, no tail and no bodies.

With all the threads going on tonight about the ATS T&C, I just wanted to bring this issue up to see if I can get some clarification, John.

When you say there is no evidence of ANY kind, no parts, etc., you really cannot say this with a straight face, can you? Have you called the Somerset Coroner yet?

Here is the first item in the ATS T&C:

1). Posting: You will not post any material that is knowingly false, misleading, or inaccurate.

To state that there is no evidence of FL 93 crashing in Shanksville, including no bodies, no plane parts, etc., is a gross misstatement of fact. It is misleading AND inaccurate. Personally, I do not think it is intellectually honest to try circumvent the T&C by simply stating these are your opinions.

Wally Miller collected body parts and belongings of the passengers on FL 93. The DNA was matched to positively ID the bodies. To state otherwise after 6 years is knowingly misleading and inaccurate, imo.

Do you really expect that a different standard be applied to your posts compared to the rest of us?

i was wondering if anyone saw the o'rielly factor that night(911). there was an oriental looking female reporter that broke into the show ,and reported there was a second sight about 8 miles away that had debris from flt 93 and was full of fib(fbi)agents. she then stated that this would indicate that the flight was shot down. mr o'really stopped her in the middle of the report,and told her he didn't want to hear it,that it only detracted from the story of the brave americans that "took action with no regard for themselves" i personally saw this. he then cut the feed and went on about how this shows the courage the passengers showed and he just didn't want to hear anything to denegrade this story.mister no spin.HA!. his chair must have been bolted down, or he would have spun into orbit.

as i have said before... the question is not what happened,BUT WHO BENEFITTED FROM IT. THE REST IS SMOKE AND MIRRORS

WE ALL KNOW THAT YOU HAVE TO LIVE IN AN ALTERNATE REALITY TO FILL IN ALL THE HOLES IN THE COVER STORY.

think about these facts
1.saddam hussein had announced that he was not going to accept dollars for oil anymore, just before 911. he sad he was going to go to euros,which would have destablized our currency
2. the taliban had just denied haliburton the ok to build a pipeline in afghanistan. everybody keeps forgetting we're at war there too
3. bin laden apparently had no part in the attack. they just used him as a facethat you could associate with this atrocity. check out the fbi most wanted site. there's no mention in the reasons he's wanted about 911
4. we had been trying to get a foothold in the reigon since the iranian hostage crisis in the 80's.
these are but a few of the reasons that show that our gov't benefitted from this incident who else did ? it gave us the oppurtunity to invade anyone that didn't agree with us,or acted not in our behalf. remember the war on terror is worldwide and endless. is it so far fetched to believe we started it for our own profit?
research these things,research the fed.
FIGURE OUT THAT THIS WAS THE OPENING OF THE DOOR TO DO WHAT WE WANTED AS A COUNTRY.
just remember that its not what happened ,but who benefitted from it. the what is obvious. what we need to find out is WHO THAT'S WHAT MATTERS.

edited for puctulation and speleng


[edit on 16-10-2007 by Spectre0o0]

Originally posted by Spectre0o0
i personally saw this

Yeah, I saw it too, and was intrigued enough to start looking around and found another report about it as well, there were also a couple of news stories on the internet about it around the same time. But, that was it, within a couple of days I heard no more reports of this, which always made me wonder what happened.

This to me was the only "conspiracy" about that entire day, they probably did shoot down the jet and covered it up, which is understandable given the situation and circumstances.

Originally posted by craig732

Originally posted by craig732

Originally posted by robert z
Miller collected both body parts and plane parts from the scene and identified the human remains, matching the body parts with the victims.

www.post-gazette.com...

www.post-gazette.com...

I would be interested to hear Mr. Lear's comments regarding this.

Actually, I would like to hear comments on this from everyone who feels a plane didn't crash in Shanksville.

Mr. Lear usually responds to all questions directed to him; I am guessing he missed this one so I am bumping it.

No, this is one question that proponents of the no plane theory have always failed to answer. Wally Miller stills works as the coroner for Somerset County. He still runs his family funeral home. He spent several years at the crash site, painstakingly collecting every bit of human remains and personal belongings, as well as parts of the aircraft.

To claim that FL 93 did not exist and did not crash in Shanksville, and that there were no body parts of plane parts is, by implication, an accusation that Wally Miller is lying about recovering the body parts as part of a government conspiracy.

All anybody has to do is pick up the phone and call Mr. Miller to discuss this case with him. To believe the people like Wally Miller are some sort of deep-cover government agents complicit in a plot to mass-murder thousands of U.S. civilians is beyond ludicrous.

eyewitness my question to you then is...What makes David Ray Griffin a expert on cell phone technology and aircraft wreckage????? Being a eminent theologian does not equate into a cell phone expert or a aircraft wreckage expert.

[edit on 17-10-2007 by six]

[edit on 17-10-2007 by six]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by robert z

No, this is not proof of anything other than shoddy journalistic work by those involved.

Funny and sad you keep stating everybody is wrong but can never show any actual facts or evidence. Its all talk.

No, it is not all talk.

Go to the government exhibits for the Moussaui trial and look up the exhibits on the calls yourself.

True, one exhibit shows a call made by Barbara Olson that did not connect. However, the same exhibit shows that 5 calls were made of various durations that did connect, but whose source was unidentified.

The distortion of this evidence is another perfect example of why I started the other thread called the Lie Movement.

And by the ways, you have it backwards. It is the truthers who are spreading falsehoods that can rarely back up their claims with actual facts -only bits and pieces and distortions.

David Ray Griffen OBVIOUSLY has done a great deal of research ionto the 9-11 events, as he has published a number of wildly successful books on the subject. He has covered all aspects of the official story thoroughly and has exposed the HUNDREDS of lies and anomalies associated with these events. Have you never read his works? if not then you are a novice to this discussion and shoulds go back and read his works.

There is NO WAY for the drones who believe in the official story to ever answer the hard questions, so all we get from you all is one impossible excuse after another, and no proofs at all. If you take the official story apart in detail, there are HUNDREDS of examples of evidence that CANNOTbe swept away under the rug and ignored, except by a believer in the official story. Belieiving the official story is like believeing a fairy tale: It may amuse for a while, but it is not real and true.

NOT ONE of you has tried to explain HOW the cockpits on all FOUR jets could have ben taken before a mike could have been keyed, and the excuses for that are beyond silly; to imagine anyone taking four cockpits before a mike could be keyed is nonsense.To imagine highjackers taking eight pilots from the cockpits before any of them could respond is nonsense. But if there is even one chance in a trillion, the official story people will grasp it and hold on for dear life, never examining the odds.

I still say that anyone who still believes the official story is living in a state of denial, chronic, unreasoned denial. Pathological denial. The sort of denial that protects certain personalities from having to face their worst fears: That society is really on the edge of destruction and that the people who run this nation are the same ones that did 9-11. It staggers the sound mind to read some of these posts that try to stretch probabilities into liklihoods, always failing to do so.

If a list of the top 500 unanswered questions were placed here, the official story people would simply see them as irrelevant instead of what they are: Beacons pointing to an insiode job. One has to IMAGINE, and with great leeway, to believe the official story. In order to believe the inside job scenarion, one only has to look at the totality of the evidence and make a mature and reasoned decision: It was an inside job.

No amount of ' imagining ' can change the facts, and the facts say that the whole story reeks and is a lie, and that an inside job is the ONLY way to reconcile all of the facts. HOW can an official story person reconcile the facts? they don't!! They just deny that they are facts and call them suppositions, despite the level of proofs offered, as their beliefs all fall apart with the slightest examination. Sad but true: Those who cannot see the truth are condemned to repeating the lie. The lie says that a bunch of Saudis got lucky beyond astronomical odds that day, hundreds of times, and that they had superhuman abilities as well. Sorry, but I cannot accept that when ALL of the empirical evidence points to an oinside job.

Fact over faith. Evidence over conjecture. Science over supposition. Inside job versus lottery winning odds happening over and over again on the same day. The whole event was carefully planned and staged, and not from a cave but from rooms where fine woods line the walls and men in fine suits pore over charts and graphs and actualize their plans for domination and control of money and human beings. Thats the truth.

reply to post by eyewitness86

Just because he has done "research" into this subject does not make him a expert. Just because he wrote " A number of widly successful books" does not make him a expert on any subject. What were his sources? Did he take his reasearch from all sides....or was he biased fromm where he got his info? No I havent read his books...I save the fiction for something else.

Nice of you to call me a drone. Do you know me?...Have we ever sat down and broken bread together? Do you even know where I stand on any issue? I dont think so. So you are in no postion to call me a drone.

You talk about lottery size odds..yet people when the lottery every day. So some where the odds played out for someone. You talk about fairy tales and yet CT'ers sound off about holograms and missles without any proof. Yes..it may amuse for awhile..

You have not tried to explain how the cockpits could not have been taken without a miked being keyed. These where men that had trained to accomplish a mission. Trained hard.

You talk about hundres of examples of evidence that cannot be swept away except by those who belive the official story. Could that mean that the official story may just be right? You talk about these men forming this plan in a cave. You talk about them as if the were uneducated men. These men are far from that. Osama, college educated, millionaire, ran his own construction company. Doent not sound like a uneducated, cave dwelling, idiot to me. Being able to fly a airplane is no simple feat. Does not sound uneducated to me.

Fact over faith.... Evidence over conjuecture..Exactly. More facts point to the "official story" than to any of the other "theories" out there. The has been no "eveidence" put out by the CT side except missquotes, faked videos, and cherry picking of the eveidence that fits the "theory" being defended at the time. No proof of this grand conspiracy. No hard proof of explosives. Not one witness that says " I cant take the lies anymore...This is how it was done". Hell someone outhere even stated he thought that explosives were planted when the towers were built in 1969-71. AND still blamed it on Bush.

You state that your "theroy" is the truth. Well prove it. Hard, incontivertable proof. Not theories and conjectures..Not faith. Proof. It is not up to those who believe that it was possible for 19 fanatics to accomplish this feat. The evidence is out there to support that. Bring proof to the table that says otherwise. I just dont see it happening.

Gee, what DOES make someone an expert? Examining the details of an event in detail from all angles using the normal means of inquiry? Or is it some guy who does nothing but read posts on a forum? I think that ANYONE would recognize Griffen as a leader in the 9-11 truth moveement. In case you have never read his stuff, which I assume to be the case, you would see that he notes and footnotes and annotates ALL of his material, quotes sources, and the sources are usually the best and most responsible on earth.

You ask a convoluted and silly question: You want ME to prove that some highjackers could have invaded four cockpits before even one could key the mike? I cannot, and neither can you; it is not logical or reasonable to imagine.There is NO way that in all four cases highjackers could have invaded and occupied the cockpits beofre the button could be pushed. If YOU can find some way to give superhuman status to the Saudi's then do so, but do not shift the burden to those of us relying on the likley scenarios: You are the ones expecying others to acept odds so massive they defy belief. Sure, someone wins a lottery every day; but the POINT is that multiple millions of others that played that same game lost; the ODDS are so far out that it is extremely unlikley that one will win. But you official story believers seem to equate extremely long odds with common odds, and that is of course nonsense.

We still have to accept incredible ' coincidences ' and hundreds of ' inexplicable ' anomalies to begin to believe the official story; we do not have to stretch the bounds of reason to simply observe the evidence and asume that it is an inside job. That makes sense given the evidence. Assuming that the official story is true means accepting outrageous odds over and over again and supposing nonsensical scenarios totally unsupoorted by any evidence. You guys lose plain and simple.

Originally posted by robert z
And by the ways, you have it backwards. It is the truthers who are spreading falsehoods that can rarely back up their claims with actual facts -only bits and pieces and distortions.

Well i hate to break it to you but i can post lots of facts and evidence to support anything i talk about and so can most other (tuthers) its the people who believe the official story who seem to always have a hard time comming up with evdience and spread the lies from the media.




[edit on 17-10-2007 by ULTIMA1]

reply to post by eyewitness86

A expert is some who has had training, schooling, in a particular subject. (ie griff is a engineer. Went to school, got good grades, received a degree.) Not as theologian who has read a bunch of stuff and calls himself a expert in cell phone technology and other disciplines. Just because you have examined it from all angles of inquiry does not make you a expert. You have to understand what you are reading, the theory behind it, what makes it work, the math to prove it. I never called myself a expert just because I set behind a computer and read posts. I have had real world experience and training, so I can speak from experience and expertise. How have your come to your conclusions? Sitting behind a computer reading posts? Reading others works? Or can you speak from experience, able to do the math, prove your theories? Or are you just parotting what you have read that fits into you view of the evil goverment/nwo scenario.

I can put the onus of proving your "theory" on you. It is YOUR "theory", not mine. Therefore it is not up to me to prove your "theory". Why should I have to prove your "theory"? Its yours...so prove it. Show me that it happened the way you said it happened. If you cant prove it..move along to something that can be proven.

The point of odds is to show the probability of it happening. Not the fact it cant happen. Just as one person wins the lottery... 19 fanatics flew 3 aircraft into buildings in th US. Just how did you derive your odds? Just what makes it impossible for this to have happened the way it happened? Just how, according to you, is the "official story" not supported by the evidence? How do you know that there is NO way that they copuld have taking over the cockpits? Are you a terroism expert? What dealings have you had in the area of hijackings? There have been alot of hijackings that the only way the authorities have found out there was a hijacking was through the hijackers themselves. FedEx found out about the attack on their pilots AFTER one of their own attacked them, not during the attack.
What superhuman feats are you assigning to these men?


[edit on 17-10-2007 by six]

NOT ONE of you has tried to explain HOW the cockpits on all FOUR jets could have ben taken before a mike could have been keyed, and the excuses for that are beyond silly; to imagine anyone taking four cockpits before a mike could be keyed is nonsense.To imagine highjackers taking eight pilots from the cockpits before any of them could respond is nonsense. But if there is even one chance in a trillion, the official story people will grasp it and hold on for dear life, never examining the odds.

How do you know it to be so unlikely? You sound pretty sure that they would have had they had a chance. How do you know that they knew what was happening? they could have got in before the pilots realised they were being hijacked, and since the Hijackers knew a little bit about flying, why couldn't they have realised the pilots would try to switch the transponder codes, and stop them?
Here's an idea, imagine you are the pilot, in the pre-9/11 world, and a hijacker bursts into the cockpit waving around what he says is a bomb and tells you he will blow it up if you try anything. How do you react to that, and how in the maybe 2 or 3 seconds you see it can you tell if it's a real bomb or not?

And if you want the pilots to have said something to the ground, what do you want them to say? They would probably need to say what flight they are, and then what the problem is. Again, in the panic of the moment how do you know they could do it?

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Well i hate to break it to you but i can post lots of facts and evidence to support anything i talk about and so can most other (tuthers) its the people who believe the official story who seem to always have a hard time comming up with evdience and spread the lies from the media.

[edit on 17-10-2007 by ULTIMA1]

The posts speak for themselves. Just on this thread alone we have somebody claiming that no parts from a plane or no body parts were found at the crash site in Shanksville, and then we have the false claim about the FBI saying Barbara Olson did not make any calls. Then we have the thread about how the NIST said the WTC collapses were unexplainable.

All of these are just examples off the top of my head that have been posted here in the last couple of days, and all of these examples are somewhere between intentional distortions and gross ignorance of the facts.

It is probably far too late for this now, but for the TRUTH movement to have even the tiniest bit of credibility truthers need to be accurate when they state their case.