The Politics and Punishment of Pedophilia -- Worse than Murder?

reply to post by docklands


your avatar is so disturbing mate!.
anyways you make a good point with the "mental maturity" thing, just dont give them anymore ideas.

Pedophilia is worse..

Harming, molesting a child is a crime which is undescribeable it get's me so mad I cannot think.

You destroy the child's entire life, innocence lost, and a permanent fear installed. This is torture to infinite bounds.

Like I said I get angry so further comment on this would likely lead me to a place I would rather not go.

That being said,

Your angle on the government and how once honest politicians become indoctrinated into accepting this disgusting behavior got me to thinking.

Remembering I am just your run of the mill common sense redneck with no university degree, I will share my theory.

I believe that some seek and get satisfaction from power.

The ultimate power is in the US gov't you name the branch, it does not matter.

The government in my lifetime (42 yrs), has been a cesspool of corruption, lies, and total disregard to the concerns of the voters who put them there.

Say one thing to get elected, blame another when your promises aren't achieved.

These elected, at first honest and genuinely trying to look out for the citizens quickly see the game. They hate the game. It get's harder and harder to lie to the people.

Somehow or another, if they make it to their second term, they witness or hear about some secret parties where child molestation occurs.

They have a choice,

Expose the heinous actions, and risk being ganged up on by the powers that be and be hustled out of DC as some type of loon.

Or say nothing, accept it, all for the continuance of being a part of the power in DC.

If they choose the 2nd option, they are committed, and at the same time if they keep this secret, there is absolutely no other lie they could ever tell the citizens that would compare to this secret.

It's not just the gov't, you have seen the same in some religious hierarchies.

The quest for POWER, a complete sacrifice of morals and common decencies.


*Remember this is only the musings of a simple man, I could be wrong but I thought I would share my thoughts. *

Pedophilia IS worse, in my opinion. The child who survives it is damaged in ways that will follow them into adulthood even after the physical evidence is gone.

Originally posted by icybreeze
the majority of pedophiles are homosexuals. So you see our problem is not with politicians but with the homosexuals. you stop the gays and you cut down on pedophelia by 2/3ds

What about the gays that are not pedophiles and do not parade around the streets half naked like wackos? =/

What is your definition of "stopping the gays" if I may ask?

And to the OP: I think child molestation/rape is one of the worst crimes of humanity.

I think it borders on deserving the death penalty, almost...

Originally posted by tator3

I am gay and I have children (boys) of my own

Not to hijack, but as a person who's attracted to both sexes myself, I have to ask, why do you consider yourself gay and not bi?

reply to post by JacKatMtn


JKM, I think you are right on the money with your ideas. I worked in the field of addiction for quite a few years and for quite awhile, I have thought exactly the same thing you have. I believe these people are addicted to power. I see so many signs of addiction in their behavior, I am convinced they are power addicts. The thing is, the longer it goes on, the worse it gets. The rest of us all pay the price.

Are We The People willing to continue enabling them?

Originally posted by forestlady
Are We The People willing to continue enabling them?

As long as We the People continue to buy the ridiculous theory that the President is to blame, it will continue.

It is not the President,

It is the Congress.

Our Senators and Representatives are the cause.

The President is one voice,

The Congress is many

The many blame the one

For the populous

It is easier to blame the one

Than hold the many

Accountable for their dirty deeds.

A shell game.


If We the People change the Congress

We change the status quo in DC.

If we don't...

Status quo is what we will get




ed:sp

[edit on 2007/10/8 by JacKatMtn]

The sad truth is that most sexual abuse of children is carried out in the family home by family members or family friends. And such acts aren't committed against your child by the local Congressman or government official. They're carried out by Dad. Or an Uncle. Or by the guy next door or a trusted teacher or churchman. That's the real tragic truth. Such crimes are horrendous and deserve the most severe penalties. Most people would agree these individuals deserve taking off the streets - permanently.

But our laws also have to be sensible. No matter how good the family environment or how well brought up our kids are, teenage sex does unfortunately happen when one or both are underage. So our laws not only have to severely punish the predatory child abuser, they also have to be framed in such a way that we don't criminalise our own children. And that means giving the judiciary flexible sentencing powers ... and that's where certainly the British legal system seems to fail. Because too many predatory child abusers are locked up for only a relatively short period of time, leave prison & subsequently re-offend. But you also end up with dumbass 16 year old boys ending up on the sex offenders register (ruining their education & job prospects in the process) for having consensual sex, however illegal, with a 15 year old girlfriend. That can't be right either.

As to the substance of this thread, Members of Parliament or Congressmen aren't any more likely to be child sex offenders than anyone else in the general population. I don't think being homosexual makes anyone more likely to be an offender either. Although perhaps homosexual offenders are more likely to be detected because their crimes aren't always committed within the family home - family homes where heterosexual child abuse is very often concealed. I suppose there is a possibility that "child sex rings" have operated and prominent individuals may have been involved. I haven't seen any evidence of that so far. So it'll be interesting to see what gets put together here.

But please don't let this thread degenerate into an "all gays are abusers" type thing. Because it's not true. And it'll derail what is a important subject.

[edit on 8-10-2007 by Niall197]

reply to post by Niall197


Just for the record, I'm speaking of what could be called "severe" pedophilia. I'm not talking about loose statutory rape where an 18 year old has sex with a 15 or 14 year old. In most cases, 18 year olds aren't much more intellectually advanced than the 14 year old is.

reply to post by SimiusDei


Well, that's where your first problem lies. How the sexual offences laws are worded. A 16 year old boy having consensual sex with a 15 year old girl isn't committing rape ... not in the UK he isn't ... although he is still committing an offence. And an offence worthy - at the judge's discretion - of him being placed on the sex offenders register. Possibly a fine. Or a prison sentence. Or no punishment whatsoever. It's all at the discretion of the judge. We would all hope that the same judge, presiding over the case of a 50 year old man committing offences against a 5 year old girl would deal with that offender much more severely than our 16 year old boy. But it's finding the words to so frame your legislation and sentencing guidelines that's the problem. And each case in front of our judge is different. The evidence is different. The offences are different. That's why judges are given discretion when it comes to sentencing. And guidelines as to what the punishment should be, in a given set of circumstances.

But it's that discretion which is letting so many people down. And it's not just in cases of sexual abuse where people are being let down. It's burglary. Car crime. Theft. You name it .... where offenders are playing revolving doors with the legal system. Imprisoned and released shortly thereafter, only to re-offend again. A legal system where an accused person's previous history of crime isnt revealed to the judge & jury during proceedings ... because he might (supposedly) receive an unfair trial. A probation service totally overstretched and unable to keep tabs on newly released offenders. A prison system at bursting point and where the judiciary receive encouragement from the government not to send people to jail and to use other penalties instead. And a police service spending more time filling out paperwork than hunting down criminals.

I just don't buy this idea of yours that judges are all part of a conspiracy and that they all share a "common interest" with the child abusers . By that token the judges are all ... burglars and thieves too ... because burglars and thieves are getting sentences way shorter than what the guy in the street would want too.

So I remain to be convinced on that one

Originally posted by Niall197
The sad truth is that most sexual abuse of children is carried out in the family home by family members or family friends. And such acts aren't committed against your child by the local Congressman or government official. They're carried out by Dad. Or an Uncle. Or by the guy next door or a trusted teacher or churchman.

and 86% of the time the offender is gay

But please don't let this thread degenerate into an "all gays are abusers" type thing. Because it's not true. And it'll derail what is a important subject.

not all gays are abusers but 86% of the abuse on boys is commited by gay men.

Originally posted by Freeborn
Paedophilia is evil, regardless of sexual persuassion.

Anyone found guilty of paedophilia should relinquish their liberty forever.
They should be either chemically or physically castrated. (I personally prefer the latter).
They should languish in a cell for the rest of their lives, straw bed and bread and water.
Daily sessions on the chain gang.
No segregation from other prisoners.

Would you be so kind as to define what you perceive to be paedophilia, please.

Also, what do you understand as evil? Is it a cultural formation, an ineluctable human trait, a term derived from religion or something else?

I presume, forgive me if incorrect, that you believe that there is 'no turning back' once you have broken a law in committing an indecent act upon a minor? What makes these crimes different from others?

When does a child become an adult, in your view, and have all children become adults at this time?

Originally posted by icybreeze
the majority of pedophiles are homosexuals. So you see our problem is not with politicians but with the homosexuals. you stop the gays and you cut down on pedophelia by 2/3ds

Clearly, you do not think that homosexuality is right, but is this because of a religious belief? Else, do you believe in a monosexual society because there is a utopian goal to be reached?

Once we are left with this 1/3 of cases of paedophilia should we not the stop the straights so that we "cut down on paedophilia" entirely? If paedophilia is not acceptable in any situation wouldn't this be the logical conclusion of your argument.

The OP is obviously just trying to use these statistics to demonize homosexuals out of a personal hatred of his own.

86% of pedophiles are homosexual? I don't know if thats true, but if it is, still, thats WAY different than saying 86% of homosexuals are pedophiles.

Hell it could mean just 1% of homosexuals are pedophiles.

Using your logic, we should arrest men to stop rape, since most rapists are men, as I pointed out in the other thread.

reply to post by SimiusDei



I absolutely agree with everything you state except one point you made I feel to be erroneous: Our nation does NOT hold children in that high regard you think they do. That's due to our lack of regard for life in general.

We warehouse inconvenient people (children, elderly, and disabled) and that's if we let them live (Dr Kevorkian and Planned Parenthood come to mind). Video games and music glorify murder, rape, robbery.

Life is a now a neat, convenient, plastic, and disposable package with glitzy advertising. "Just do it" "You deserve a break today..."

The State owns our children. They want to feed, insure, educate, and shape them as they see fit. It's illegal for me to spank my child as I see fit.

You know, now that I think about it; this makes your case even better as I realise the government treats parents simply as glorified Babysitters so they can get their hands on them later.
I think we're both right, the government wants our kids, and we don't value any life whatsoever. Makes our kids perfect prey for whoever gets to them first.

I live in a wholesome, Pro Family state that is bursting with children. There are more pedophiles per square inch here than most if not all other states. Why? Do innocent and unprotected children attract evil? You better believe they do.

reply to post by Kacen


Umm, yea. You are getting icy and me confused. I am the OP and I didn't make that claim..



Thanks
jasn

I worked in Child Protective Services and except for the two links posted here and on another thread, I know of no credible evidence that homosexuals are more likely to commit child sexual abuse.

In fact, according to the research I have seen, many, if not most, pedophiles have no sexual preference.

I'm pretty sure that most child sexual abuse is perpetrated by heterosexuals for the simple reason that most humans are heterosexual.

These statistics are consistent with my experience and knowledge of this subject:

1 in 4 girls is sexually abused before the age of 18.
1 in 6 boys is sexually abused before the age of 18.

Given a rough 50/50 split between males and females, it is easy to see that more girls than boys are sexually abused.

So, if the idea that a staggering majority of child sexual abusers are homosexual, the fact that girls are abused more than boys doesn't fit well.

Even if it is true that a disproportionate number of homosexuals are attracted children, the overall small number of homosexuals really can't account for the majority of child sexual abuse.

Clearly, there is some disagreement on this subject, but it is well understood in law enforcement that child sexual abuse is as big or bigger problem in the heterosexual community as it is in the homosexual community. At least, this is my observation having worked in the field.

Opinion is a very important part of these discussions, but facts are also important and good, objective data from scientific sources are better than the biased articles from various agencies who make no bones about their prejudices.

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[edit on 2007/10/11 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by Kacen
I think child molestation/rape is one of the worst crimes of humanity.

I think it borders on deserving the death penalty, almost...

I just have to say I find it a bit ironic given your little girl hentai avatar thingy there.

What's with the Japanese and their obsession with pre-pubescent girls with breast implants?

Worse than murder? In many ways, yes it is. In others, not so much. After all a murder victim is dead. A victim of molestation though horribly scarred is still very much alive, and can heal if given the chance. Therapy, counseling, etc... all go along ways towards healing those grievous wounds.

Punishment? Once found guilty of child molestation, automatic death penalty. There is no rehabilitation possible for these monsters. They've betrayed everything a child looks to from an adult. Oh, they'll tell you, that they love the children, etc... Not so. All it is for them is a power trip, they can't control anything in their sordid little lives, so they go after the one thing that they can control, a child.

My family has been split apart by this horrid crime, and I have very strong feelings about it.

To the poster who mentioned child marriages in Saudi Arabia, and other countries, it's still child abuse, I don't give a rats ass whether its a cultural thing or not. Children should be children, not sexual playthings. It's not you, I'm ranting at, by the bye...the whole concept of child brides is horrid.

[edit on 11-10-2007 by seagull]

[edit on 11-10-2007 by seagull]

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by Kacen
I think child molestation/rape is one of the worst crimes of humanity.

I think it borders on deserving the death penalty, almost...

I just have to say I find it a bit ironic given your little girl hentai avatar thingy there.

What's with the Japanese and their obsession with pre-pubescent girls with breast implants?

At the risk of this going way off topic: shes not pre-pubescent and thats not hentai; hentai is porn. =/ Thats what I would call "artistic ecchiness", I guess.

reply to post by seagull


I'd be very wary of advocating the death penalty for such offences.

In the UK in the late 1980's a large number of children were taken into care following medical examinations carried out by a paediatrician, Dr. Marietta Higgs. It became known as the Cleveland Child Abuse scandal. Dr. Higgs had wrongly diagnosed that these children, mainly toddlers, had been sexually abused by either one or both parents. One hundred and twenty one children were taken into public care & separated from their parents, many of whom went on to be charged by the Police for sexual offences against their own children. In many cases the children were separated from their parents for over one year.

The public and Parliamentarians alike were hugely shocked to see so many children being subject to sexual abuse in what was quite a small geographic area. It got to the stage where the local public childrens homes ran out of space and these children had to be accomodated in a local hospital or placed into foster care. Alarmingly, not only were some parents accused of abuse, some foster parents who had received these poor children into their care were also accused of sexually abusing them.

One MP called for an official inquiry to be conducted into the actions of Dr. Higgs, which Judge Butler-Sloss carried out. Each case was considered and proceedings involving nearly 100 of these children were immediately dismissed on the grounds that no evidence existed to suggest that these children had been abused in any way whatsoever. Other cases were dropped over the months following the inquiry.

I'm only mentioning this to show that mistakes do happen when it comes to diagnosing the sexual abuse of children from a medical perspective.