Why am I still getting laughed at when I tell people that the 9/11 attack was questionable??

reply to post by BlueTriangle


I'm not into the administration and I'm not into they story they gave us, so I'm anti-both sides, if some people are not anti admin, but anti the story, or vice- versa, then..there is something really wrong right there.

This is a very sad thread for me, and I am not a regular ATS poster, though I do read through just about every day.

I am a survivor from the Pentagon. I was outside smoking a cigarette on the day it happened, not far from the 'crash' site.

I've told my story in it's complete form over and over again for the past 6 years, and even tried to come forward to Alex Jones about my experience, but even the so-called 'truth movement' (read as: controlled opposition) and was promptly 'exposed' as either a liar or a government infiltrator because my eyewitness account was different than either the official story or the official conspiracy theory.

While I have no doubt that the trader on Wall St. saw what he says he saw. I saw the endless videos of airplanes going into both buildings over and over again ad nauseam. I have no doubt that it riled him to ire (not after the prerequisite feelings of dread and terror over seeing an airplane crash into a building directly overhead. I know how he feels because I was at a similar event, though the one I was at didn't involve an airplane or a missile.

I won't post anymore to this thread, and I may not check it very frequently (as I usually stay away from "911 conspiracies" these days as I think the truth movement is just as bunk as the official story. People like Alex Jones are just out to make a buck by talking real loud and making people afraid (no different than Rush really).

To the OP: I'm sorry you are still laughed at for pointing out questions that need to be asked, and I really feel for you..I go through it to. But for me, I'm a liar or delusional (and even have photos I took from my cellphone and have showed them to people and they still don't believe me). It makes me very sad, it gives me bad dreams, oftentimes I wonder if it's even worth continuing to live at all because I won't say I didn't see something that I saw and I won't say that it was something that I know it wasn't. And that, my fellow people, is something I feel as voraciously as Mr Trader on Wall St. Nobody can tell me that a plane hit that building when I was there to watch it and nobody can tell me that a missile hit that building because I was there. I hate that I was there. I wish I wasn't. I wish I didn't have to carry this for the rest of my life, but I do.

Just a precognitive message to those out there who want to taunt, flame, or attempt to discredit me or this post...

Your words fall on deaf ears, I've already said that I'm not going to make any further posts in this thread so no questions will be answered and no comments responded to so you're on a dead line, I've already hung up the phone so save your energy. The only reason I posted here was to say that this thread makes me sad and I felt obligated to explain why. I also wanted to offer a little solidarity to the OP.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

You have not told us how the hijackers got a key to the cockpit door yet.

Who said they had a key?

Maybe you can explain why the hijackers knew how to work the transponder and the autopilot but not the radio?

Why do you think they didn't know how to use the radio?

Or how the pilots did not roll the aircraft to keep the hijackers out but the hijackers in flight 93 rolled the aircraft to keep the passengers out who were tyrying to get in.

Well, pre 9/11, all pilots were instructed to do as told by hijackers to get the plane onto the ground as fast as possible.
Also, there is a big difference between a suicide terrorist and a pilot. The suicide terrorist may not have cared if they were going to die but maybe the pilot didn't want to die and take all the passengers with them.... Just a thought.

Originally posted by jfj123
Who said they had a key?

Why do you think they didn't know how to use the radio?

Well, pre 9/11, all pilots were instructed to do as told by hijackers to get the plane onto the ground as fast as possible.
Also, there is a big difference between a suicide terrorist and a pilot. The suicide terrorist may not have cared if they were going to die but maybe the pilot didn't want to die and take all the passengers with them.... Just a thought.

1. Please pay attention and read the post of BOONE 870

2. They must not have known how to use the radio or intercom because when the thought they were talking to the passengers they were broadcasting to the ATC.

3. But flight 93 was warned about cockpit intrusions, why would they not try to keep the hijackers out of the cockpit?



[edit on 13-10-2007 by ULTIMA1]

reply to post by tiredofthecrap


Well I for one am not familiar with your eyewitness account.

I would love to hear it and hope you will oblige!

Here is the proper Link. (PDF). Page 5. Sorry about that. Joint Surveillance System radar sites are depicted in maroon.

originally posted by ULTIMA1 How much do you know about the joint radar systems we have? Do you actually think that site shows all the radar that are out there?

Only what I've read. Not even close, but that is all I have to go on.

You have not told us how the hijackers got a key to the cockpit door yet.

Yes I have. Either you did not read the link or you chose to ignore it.

originally posted by jfj123
Who said they had a key?

I did. In this thread.

Some people seem to think that the pilots were not surprised because the hijackers had to break into the cockpit or that they would never have allowed the hijackers access to the cockpit even if it meant the life of a flight attendant.
So I pointed out the fact that the FAA required all flight attendants to carry a cockpit key or that the airlines were required to have a cockpit key placed in the passenger compartment so that the flight attendants would have access to the cockpit in case of an emergency.

These regulations came about after a 1996 incident in which there was a passenger cabin fire and the flight attendants could not alert the pilots because the door was locked and the phone system on the aircraft was broken.

Originally posted by Boone 870
So I pointed out the fact that the FAA required all flight attendants to carry a cockpit key or that the airlines were required to have a cockpit key placed in the passenger compartment so that the flight attendants would have access to the cockpit in case of an emergency.

So the hijackers also knew where the keys were?

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by jfj123
Who said they had a key?

Why do you think they didn't know how to use the radio?

Well, pre 9/11, all pilots were instructed to do as told by hijackers to get the plane onto the ground as fast as possible.
Also, there is a big difference between a suicide terrorist and a pilot. The suicide terrorist may not have cared if they were going to die but maybe the pilot didn't want to die and take all the passengers with them.... Just a thought.

1. Please pay attention and read the post of BOONE 870

2. They must not have known how to use the radio or intercom because when the thought they were talking to the passengers they were broadcasting to the ATC.

3. But flight 93 was warned about cockpit intrusions, why would they not try to keep the hijackers out of the cockpit?
[edit on 13-10-2007 by ULTIMA1]

1. They may have just made an accident in a high pressure situation. From what I understand, they were mainly concerned about learning how to fly and turn off the transponder. Since they were not going to negotiate, I'm guessing that learning how to use the radio properly wasn't a priority.

2. Pre-9/11, how were cockpit doors built? Remember, they were just pilots, not ninjas. Maybe 2 or 3 people pushing on a door that was not re-enforced, was just too much for a simple door lock and a seated pilot???

3. Pre-9/11, what were the regs regarding hijackers taking over a plane in flight?

Originally posted by Boone 870

originally posted by jfj123
Who said they had a key?

I did. In this thread.

Some people seem to think that the pilots were not surprised because the hijackers had to break into the cockpit or that they would never have allowed the hijackers access to the cockpit even if it meant the life of a flight attendant.
So I pointed out the fact that the FAA required all flight attendants to carry a cockpit key or that the airlines were required to have a cockpit key placed in the passenger compartment so that the flight attendants would have access to the cockpit in case of an emergency.

These regulations came about after a 1996 incident in which there was a passenger cabin fire and the flight attendants could not alert the pilots because the door was locked and the phone system on the aircraft was broken.

So either they got a key from an attendant they killed and got in or
The used force to break the door in.

What is the point of that? Not trying to be sarcastic, I'm just not sure where you're going with it.

Originally posted by jfj123

So either they got a key from an attendant they killed and got in or
The used force to break the door in.

What is the point of that? Not trying to be sarcastic, I'm just not sure where you're going with it.

The hijackers having a key subject started because some people believe that is strange that the pilots didn't radio ATC or didn't change the transponders. They think that the pilots would have been aware of the hijackings if the hijackers had to bust the door down and they would have sent some sort of distress signal.

That is why I pointed out that it is a regulation for all the flight attendants to have a key to the cockpit on them during the flight or that the aircraft has a key readily available for the flight crew to be able to gain access to the cockpit in case of an emergency.

I personally believe that the hijackers were aware of this because they had taken reconnaissance flights in the first-class cabin of similar aircraft prior to 9/11.

Originally posted by Boone 870
Originally posted by jfj123

So either they got a key from an attendant they killed and got in or
The used force to break the door in.

What is the point of that? Not trying to be sarcastic, I'm just not sure where you're going with it.

The hijackers having a key subject started because some people believe that is strange that the pilots didn't radio ATC or didn't change the transponders. They think that the pilots would have been aware of the hijackings if the hijackers had to bust the door down and they would have sent some sort of distress signal.

That is why I pointed out that it is a regulation for all the flight attendants to have a key to the cockpit on them during the flight or that the aircraft has a key readily available for the flight crew to be able to gain access to the cockpit in case of an emergency.

I personally believe that the hijackers were aware of this because they had taken reconnaissance flights in the first-class cabin of similar aircraft prior to 9/11.

Thanks for the info. Greatly appreciate it
Your hypothesis sounds reasonable.
Also, there is the possibility that the hijackers simply asked about it in class??? Just a guess.

Thanks again for updating me.

Originally posted by jfj123
1. They may have just made an accident in a high pressure situation. From what I understand, they were mainly concerned about learning how to fly and turn off the transponder. Since they were not going to negotiate, I'm guessing that learning how to use the radio properly wasn't a priority.

2. Pre-9/11, how were cockpit doors built? Remember, they were just pilots, not ninjas. Maybe 2 or 3 people pushing on a door that was not re-enforced, was just too much for a simple door lock and a seated pilot???

3. Pre-9/11, what were the regs regarding hijackers taking over a plane in flight?

1. Wouldn't you think they would want to use the intercomm to keep the passengers quite and at bay.

2. So your saying the pilots just sat in there seats and did nothing as the hijackers broke in the cokpit door and attacked them?

Do you think a Vietnam vet is going be afraid of 2 guys with boxcutters?

3. Well they required you to follow the instructions of the hijackers. (BUT not to turn over controll of the aircraft to the hijackers). A pilot would never just turn over controll of his aircraft.

This sure is a long post. Personally, and honestly, the 911 attack where only toward NY in reality, becouse.... the Towers, are a symbol of power, and how NY came to be so powerful economically.

So i don't know why this story, has effected people who don't live in NY, and people who don't Live in America? The towers are not a Symbol of freedom. They are a symbol of New York's economic structure. ( Look it up )

Has our freedom in America been taken away from us by this attack? no. we are all free but there is a price..our gov has proven that mostly clearly, but most people have no idea that it's happening.

I think the government is hiding something, but not to the extent that everyone thinks, I think this is so they don't get embarrassed because their security was so low. Then again I haven't really read into it, however its not my cup of tea.

Just my two cents

Originally posted by eRauzed
I think this is so they don't get embarrassed because their security was so low.
Just my two cents

You mean security so low even after getting so many warnings from foreign and domestic intelligence agencies?

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by jfj123
1. They may have just made an accident in a high pressure situation. From what I understand, they were mainly concerned about learning how to fly and turn off the transponder. Since they were not going to negotiate, I'm guessing that learning how to use the radio properly wasn't a priority.

2. Pre-9/11, how were cockpit doors built? Remember, they were just pilots, not ninjas. Maybe 2 or 3 people pushing on a door that was not re-enforced, was just too much for a simple door lock and a seated pilot???

3. Pre-9/11, what were the regs regarding hijackers taking over a plane in flight?

1. Wouldn't you think they would want to use the intercomm to keep the passengers quite and at bay.

2. So your saying the pilots just sat in there seats and did nothing as the hijackers broke in the cokpit door and attacked them?

Do you think a Vietnam vet is going be afraid of 2 guys with boxcutters?

3. Well they required you to follow the instructions of the hijackers. (BUT not to turn over controll of the aircraft to the hijackers). A pilot would never just turn over controll of his aircraft.

1. Well I suppose they could use the intercom or they also could have simply used the terrorists in the passenger area to keep them quiet.
2. I don't know what the pilots did or didn't do. Do you?
3. Everyone is different. I wouldn't suppose to know the mind of anyone under extreme stress including a vietnam vet.
4. What was the pre-9/11 policy regarding hijackings?
5. You're making it sound as if pilots are superhuman with no fear. Maybe the pilot thought that if he fought and was killed, then the passengers had no hope so he was a hero for standing down and waiting??? Just a guess as this is all supposition.

Originally posted by jfj123
1. Well I suppose they could use the intercom or they also could have simply used the terrorists in the passenger area to keep them quiet.
4. What was the pre-9/11 policy regarding hijackings?
5. You're making it sound as if pilots are superhuman with no fear.

1. Why do we have the transcripts of the hijackers trying to use the intercoom to keep the passengers quite and at bay?

4. I already stated that they were supposed to follow the hijackers , BUT not turn over control of the plane.

5. And your making it sound like the hijackers were superhuman and could do anything. They could break into a cockpit and attack the pilots so fast the pilots could not call or signal for help.

Do you actually think the pilots would just give up the plane with a fight or trying to get off a call or signal.

If you don't believe the official story, by default you believe there is a conspiracy.

which in itself is a conspiracy theory as in 19 hijackers and their financers/planners commited a conspiracy to murder, and of course since it hasnr been proven is still a theory.

Originally posted by Gazman
Is it just me or are you getting it as well?? People TO THIS DAY still reckons im a idiot or a nut...

43% of Americans think the government is hiding something...

Gazman,

Very interesting question, I've pondered this lately myself.

I believe there are several factors contributing to that. There are some real nutcases who speak out loudly about this, and therefore when you mention it, the association with that element can and is frequently triggered. The person you are talking to may have seen some real 'characters' standing by the side of the road with signs or something, and now he/she associates anyone of that opinion with perhaps its worst representative.

Another factor I think is the human tendency to ridicule in order to avoid dealing with facts. I can't even count how many threads I've read where a 'Truther' will ask some questions, and many on the other side will simply express their disgust with what they perceive to be utterly absurd. And in the process, oftentimes they will neglect to address the specific points/questions raised.

Lastly, you have plenty of people (on both sides of this debate) who haven't really done much research for themselves other than maybe watching a couple of videos or just absorbing the opinion of someone they trust, and have already made up their minds. This type of person would rather ridicule someone on the opposing side than simply examine and weigh the evidence in a logical manner.

I hope this response was helpful, in regards to your question.