Israel Should Move to Canada or Alaska, Ahmadinejad Says

Originally posted by jimmycrackcorn
Why do they continue to ship missles and explosives to insurgents? We have the proof? No one has answered this question.

You're an ex-soldier right?

So that means you hold with the command structure of the US military then?

So, when General Peter Pace, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff says this;

“That does not translate that the Iranian government per se, for sure, is directly involved in doing this,” Pace told reporters in the Indonesian capital, Jakarta. “What it does say is that things made in Iran are being used in Iraq to kill coalition soldiers.”

You don't believe him?
If he ordered you to believe it, would you?

please, paragraph in the future

Originally posted by jimmycrackcorn
We the US speak for all the oppressed people in the world.

even palestinians? what about all the times we've turned a blind eye to genocide?

We welcome them here into our country to be free from all the oppression in their respective countries.

in no significant numbers, when it comes to the iraqis.

You know all to well what the US stands for.

yes... greed, double standards, shunning of international law, terrorism.

WE are liberators not invaders.

really? if it was about liberation, why didn't we accept saddam's offer? he promised to leave iraq and go into permanent exile if we gave him $1 billion. that would've saved all the lives lost in iraq.

but instead we INVADED the country and destroyed the infrastructure. then we allowed for the defilement of iraq's heritage by protecting OIL instead of PRICELESS ARTIFACTS

We got rid of a tyrant leader in IRAQ, and by doing that how many of IRAQ's citizens did we/you save? Hundreds? Thousands?

every iraqi killed by saddam? their blood is on american hands for putting him into power.

Now we are faced with a country (IRAN) who wants to destabilize what we are trying to build....a democratic country.

really? because the lack of democracy in iran is the product of US intervention during the cold war. they elected a leader that wanted to remove the shah and turn iran into an independent state instead of a US puppet government, the CIA got rid of him and installed the shah as a despot.

Giving people freedoms that they never had before.

yes... tell that to the thousands of civilians that have died as a result of this war.

Now they want to stick their nose in something, because they are viewed as a terrorist state and they can't have nuclear weapons.........

why are they a terrorist state and not the USA?
since when did the USA follow the same laws that it subjects iran to?

I'm all for building a better country.

kind of hard to build a better country when you reduce it to rubble first.

There are systems of checks and balances in place to legitify your nuclear programs........

um..yea, that the USA doesn't subject itself to

Prove your just using nuclear energy for electricity and not for bombs to kill your neighbors or MY FELLOW COUNTRY MEN, then by all means have at it hoss.

um... the USA isn't allowing iran to even have civilian nuclear use. you're obviously misunderstanding the situation.

But you want to defy the IAEA and not follow the checks and balances that every other country follows then you should be held accountable.

ok, countries that defy the IAEA include israel and the USA...

If that means a "group" of countries collectively agrees that you are not "doing" what you say your "doing" then you lose that chess piece (Nuc program).

too bad, the USA is going to have a hell of a time ridding themselves of nukes.

It's all a game......But I still don't want to see on MY TV Iranians chanting DEATH to the USA!

do you know what happened on the streets of tehran on 9/11?
a massive candlelight vigil in support of the USA

hmmm
hm
so odd, isn't it?
this "terrorist" state that wants "death to america" mourned after the tragic terrorist attack instead of celebrating

Thats bull#!

that's not allowed on this board...

I'm standing up for MY COUNTRY! Here in the USA!

you're standing up for a lie.

And I would just like to say thank you for your service to OUR country.

yep, they really helped increase american control of oil...

reply to post by DJMessiah



DJ, I can plainly see that you are a bush hater and thats fine with me. In response to your inquires. If I were an IRAQI and I was told to stay inside that their are "killers/insurgents" targeting military personel and civilians, and I was "innocent" then I probably would abide by the curfew that was set. The curfew is set for "innocent civilians" safety as well as your own. They are not being held hostage, they are certainly free to leave, but I guess intelligence would report that "insurgents would use the COVER OF DARKNESS" to move explosives or other weapons they intend to use. Just my guess??? Don't criminals here use the cover of darkness to elude or evade caputer for crimes thay committed or intend to comit? I tend to think that someone "out for a stroll on the town" after curfew would be "suspicious", don't you? But your thinking is that we are denying them the freedom to move about. THEY ARE IN A HOSTILE ENVIROMENT. It would be wise to heed the warnings givin. But if I was to tell you that there is some sort of explosive device in your town that was set to go off at 10:30, and I said stay in your home, it's not safe here tonight. You wouldn't believe me, and would stroll into town to see if you could see it, huh? If your going to be a smart ass, you should think about what your talking about.

As for your General Pace Quote, If he says that it's not Iran per se, but the weapons were manufactured and built in Iran. Then guess what? Either "someone" in IRAN is stealing the weapons (doubtful) and giving them to insurgents, or IRAN is smuggling them into IRAQ.(probable) I would again tend to think that if I made weapons and the general public cannot access the military weapons being smuggled, then what does that lead you to believe. They are coming from SOMEWHERE! You probably think that Bush is secretly sending them in there too huh? Bottom line is that IRAN continues to threaten the US and our troops everyday. They are responsible for american soilders deaths if they are killed using IRANIAN weapons right? Wouldn't you agree? NO, you'd line up with them and chant right along with them DEATH to THE USA! You shouldn't be here!Then they would cut your throat and drag you through the street because you are AMERICAN! And your family would pleed for help from bush to "do something"! Keep tying our military's hands with your nonsense. You want checks and balances just like I do. But hold the people responsible accountable. It's plain as day. A god damn kindergarten kid can tell the diffrence between red and blue, and they can probably read between the lines too.........

And you can thank A Q KHAN for all the nuclear information that is available to radical regimes in the middle east and North Korea. Thanks have a nice day........

Originally posted by jimmycrackcorn
They are responsible for american soilders deaths if they are killed using IRANIAN weapons right? Wouldn't you agree?

What about Russian, German, British and French weapons that are used?

You gonna bomb the whole world Jimmy?

reply to post by Aaron_Justin


its official this man is damn right crazy

reply to post by jimmycrackcorn


um, jimmy, who created the dangerous situation?
who disbanded the iraqi military, leaving all those soldiers unemployed and with weapons?

everything we're trying to "fix" in iraq is something that we broke ourselves

Originally posted by 4thDoctorWhoFan
reply to post by jimmycrackcorn

 

And I don't care.....

Good post BTW!

Ah the good doctor.... I was wondering when you were going to come out from under the bridge you seem to favor as a resting site. I for one am not shocked you seem to take to Jummy's message with such fervor. The two of you may actually be the poster trolls for exactly this kind of mindless obidience we see from some these days.

Since you spent what, 2-3 posts with this mindless chest thumping in reply to a post that seems more appropriate for a 3rd grade discussion, I thought I would drop down to your collective level and take a look around:........ Yep just what I thought Ignorance scattered around everwhere, some denial in the corner as well.

However, If I am wrong, please try to add something to this debate other than Jimmy's Rambo-esq "Yeah kill them all" posts or your usual one line trolling.



[edit on 13/10/07 by Operation AJAX]

What about Russian, German, British and French weapons that are used?

You gonna bomb the whole world Jimmy?

There you go again looking at things as black and white. I bet most of those other weapons were ALREADY in Iraq and the weapons the Iranians are supplying are NEW.

Hmmmmm........

reply to post by princeofpeace


Iran sells small arms and ammo on the international market. The weapons could have come from any nation that purchased them.

reply to post by Operation AJAX


Dear Mr. AJAX Cleanser,

I read your somewhat witty response to my post, and you believe that I'm some sort of outcast because I SPEAK THE TRUTH that you fail and others either fail to realize, or your just blind. You are quick to mock myself and the doctor, but you post no valid arguements to my posts. But in another breath you say it's a 3rd grade conversation, and you had to stoop to "OUR" level. Unfortunitly you are absolutely right. A 3rd grader would be able to see through IRAN'S lies and decietful practices, and that they "do" ship arms to insurgents that kill americans. Unless you have a valid arguement to any posts, backed with atleast some sort of "facts", what don't you hide back under the bridge with the rest of you liberals. Maybe you and Hillary, and Pelosi can roast marshmallows while your there. Maybe you can figure out why Hillary hangs out with and accepts money from criminals???? There's your 3rd grade homework for the week.................I expect nothing short of a full report...........

Originally posted by jimmycrackcorn
A 3rd grader would be able to see through IRAN'S lies and decietful practices, and that they "do" ship arms to insurgents that kill americans.

Yes, only a fool would think that Iran is not supporting the anti-occupation movement in Iraq because Iran would be foolish not to.

And only a heartless POS would gleefully wish more death because of this.

what don't you hide back under the bridge

Yes, the bridge...

Lets stop feeding the trolls, ATS.


[edit on 13-10-2007 by cavscout]

reply to post by cavscout



Cav,

Are you insinuating that I am "wishing more deaths" on the rotten bastards that are killing our brothers and sisters? You may be right, but I will stand WITH my brothers that are killed everyday. I will stand up for them here, and give them the god damn respect they deserve. Would you want someone to avenge your death if you were killed by them? And by avenge I don't necessarily mean kill them, but do something to stop the flow of arms. What happened to you, do you not still have friends over there? You want some anti-occupational characters as you call them to kill your brothers? Your not going to stand up with your brothers? I can understand that your views might have changed since being in IRAQ, but these are your comrades. These are the people that you ate in a ditch with. These are the people who showed you love, when you were away from your family. They made sure YOUR ASS made it home, now you don't want to do the same for them? AFter they did it for you? I don't understand? Why don't you just lobby to have all the US soilders weapons taken from them, that will help them out. That will get them home sooner. The bottom line is no matter what everyone thinks, or cries about, the troops are not coming home untill the job is done. The war on terror will go on past IRAQ, IRAN, and Afghanistan. THIS IS A GLOBAL WAR and EFFORT. So lets keep spitting out garbag that the US troops are not supported by our citizens here. Thats real great...........and since I'm hiding under the "bridge" with the other trolls maybe you should jump off of it and see if I pull you to shore or not.............maybe you'll just float and bloat...

If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything.

Originally posted by jimmycrackcorn
I'm some sort of outcast because I SPEAK THE TRUTH that you fail and others either fail to realize, or your just blind.

Hmmm, I never did say outcast and if that were the truth, perhaps we would not find ourselves in the quagmire we are in now. But at any rate it is unlikely that any sort of rational argument will hit home with you so I am reduced to trying to counter your sound bites and quips.

A 3rd grader would be able to see through IRAN'S lies and decietful practices, and that they "do" ship arms to insurgents that kill americans.

When have I or anybody ever defended Iran on that aspect? However, given the decitfull practices and outright lies that the present administration has perpatrated on the American public, Im going to need more than your chest thumping or other neocon rhetoric before I advocate a cource of action. If it were not for the false premises for the present quagmire we would not be where we are eh?

You speak of putting forth a valid argument...... did you forget your 'kill them all post" I realize that its hard to keep track of all of your bombastic statements but if you are not going to pay attention to your own statements, its hardly fair to expect me too So much for your "final solution" Im sure Hitler, Stalin, Pot et al. would approve, but what of the rest of us.

what don't you hide back under the bridge with the rest of you liberals. Maybe you and Hillary, and Pelosi can roast marshmallows while your there.

actually Im a Republican. Have been one for all my life however, as my grandfather said if it smells like crap it is crap. Thats what we have here. Funny, you automaticaly slap the lable "liberal" like its some sort of pink triangle or something. Hmmmmm Ill let you connect the dots. just because Im a Republican, does not mean im some mindless neocon eh? Some of us can actually think. And yes I voted for Bush both times.

Maybe you can figure out why Hillary hangs out with and accepts money from criminals???? There's your 3rd grade homework for the week.................I expect nothing short of a full report...........

Okay teacher, its done. Its called a Strawman Argument....... Now what is he looking for? ah yes a brain.... very apt if you ask me

[edit on 14/10/07 by Operation AJAX]

[edit on 14/10/07 by Operation AJAX]

reply to post by Operation AJAX



Dear Ajax,

You think that I don't remember all the posts that I've written? You think all this is is chest thumping? And that I'm a neocon? You critisize my opinion(s) to protect my/our brothers? Yet you still avoid answering the questions that are put to you and everyone else. You dance around, beat around the bush while "you try to find a course of action". You never disprove what I'm saying, your just trying to figure out what to say next, and then you just adlib on my "quips". All you do is pull a sentence that I've written, twist it to fit the answer you have and post it. I guess you must agree with everything else that I've written??? I'm glad your a republican "thinker", so am I. My views just seem to be a little diffrent then yours. Would your grandfather think supporting your countries troops is crap? I don't agree with everything from the Bush admin. but you and I voted him in there. Just like you don't agree with most of my posts, but what can you do? You free to have an opinion, and I know I'm free to express mine. I'm sorry that I said you should roast marshmallows with Hillary. But then again your "thinker" views are diffrent then mine.....Here's an easy question to answer.... Now, don't beat around the bush, don't adlib on my "quips".............When the time comes (which is now) are you going to stand with our brothers and country men, regardless of the "politics", or are you going to continue to pull the rug out from under them? Easy question, easy answer, for a "thinker". I know my answer.......(thumping chest)!!! I'll be patiently awaiting your response....... thank you....

A mindless patriot.

Originally posted by jimmycrackcorn
You are quick to mock myself and the doctor, but you post no valid arguements to my posts.

Maybe thats because you tend to ignore the more salient points Jimmy.

Or maybe its because you just dismiss the logic thats put infront of you with your "Team America ****Ya!" attitude.

reply to post by neformore



Team America, I like that. Maybe you should jump on the team, and come on in for the big win.......


I'd rather have the score card read "good guys 1 bad guys 0......just my opinion again.

I will feed you again, because you hit close to home.

Originally posted by jimmycrackcorn
You want some anti-occupational characters as you call them to kill your brothers? Your not going to stand up with your brothers?

3 weeks ago I had two younger brothers in Iraq. Real genetic brothers. Oh, and if that isnt bad enough, my dad is there as well.

One little brother was dont with his 2nd tour 2 weeks ago.

The other came home a week ago with 9 pins and a plate in his leg.

My father (who started his career in Vietnam and saw Panama and the first Gulf War as well) is on his way home. He may be on the plane right now.

You think I want them dead?

I want them HOME. More than that, I don’t want them to kill anymore.

Because I love them I want them to heal their souls. NOTHING is worth them killing other people and destroying their own souls, especially not some hypothetical future attack.

Truth is, death does not hurt my feelings anymore. I don’t worry about people dieing, because everyone WILL die, sooner or later. We are not causing death, we are bringing it sooner.

We cannot stop death.

What is important though is LOVE. When we kill, there is no love.

I dont know if I am making sense here.

Let me put it this way: I will not kill another person to protect my life, or the lives of any other person. I hope I can stand by that statement if I ever am in a position to protect my family.

Sounds weak, but it makes sense.

Why? Because we ALL WILL DIE. What is important is that we witness LOVE along the way. If my love of someone killing me turns his or her life around, then my death was worth something.

I may be extreme but I don’t think killing one man to prevent the death of a thousand children is worth it.

If you believe in God, REALLY believe, then death takes on new meaning and peace and love are all that matters.

If you believe that death is the end, that it is a horrible thing, then you would naturally want to kill the one man to save a thousand.

So death is nothing bad. Killing is.

No sin is worse than another. We are ALL sinners, we are all rotten. The sins I do everyday, however minor they may seem, are all just bad as murder. So who am I to judge a murderer?

Who am I to judge a terrorist?

All I can do is try to love and spread love.

Not easy, as I am a very angry man. My first inclination is often one of violence when confronted with a difficult situation and my life is a constant struggle to remain calm.

We all have our problems. We all have our sins.

Does anyone understand?

They made sure YOUR ASS made it home, now you don't want to do the same for them? AFter they did it for you? I don't understand?

No, you got it all wrong.

"They" were never my friend, never my comrade. I didn’t want to go to combat, and I didn’t want to kill.

I went because it was the easiest option, and I am a coward.

I never supported the war, I never supported the troops.

I never made friends with a single soldier while I was in the Army.

I did my job well though. I learned every part of what it means to be a scout. I killed when necessary, but not for my "brothers in arms." I did it because I was a good scout. A cavalryman.

Not for them, for me, so I could be the best, better than them.

And because it was easy. It is easy to squeeze the trigger when your life is on the line.

I was a coward, too scared to lay down my weapons and die in peace and love so I killed to save my flesh.

I owe nothing to the killers who were there along side me and they owe nothing to me.

I earned my golden spurs, tinted with crimson, because I am a COWARD.



You will come around Jimmy, we all will.

In the end every knee will hit the floor.

[edit on 14-10-2007 by cavscout]

Originally posted by jimmycrackcorn
DJ, I can plainly see that you are a bush hater and thats fine with me.

Do tell me which part of my post made you label me as a "bush hater" as you said you can "plainly see." Either you're used to labeling any opposition to your posts as someone who's a "liberal" or "Bush hater," or you've incorporated someone else's post with mine.

In response to your inquires. If I were an IRAQI and I was told to stay inside that their are "killers/insurgents" targeting military personel and civilians, and I was "innocent" then I probably would abide by the curfew that was set.

So stepping outside would automatically make one free from being "innocent"?

Let me give you a point of view in their lives in a hypothetical example. Let's say that we never went into Iraq to remove Saddam. Let's say that Saddam felt that Bush was being very oppressive to Americans (illegal wiretaps, Patriot Acts, torture, detainment camps, etc.), So Saddam decided that he wanted to "liberate" the Americans by removing bush from power, and bringing his form of Democracy to the US. So by doing so, armed Americans started fighting back against the Iraqi forces that were occupying the US, and the Iraqi forces labeled those Americans as "insurgents," and ordered every American to stay inside their homes at night or they would be shot for being suspected of being an insurgent. Now the Iraqi soldiers do this type of "curfew" for weeks, then months, then years, and pretty soon, many Americans forgot what it was like to step outside at night. Now if they choose to step outside, they would give up the notion that they're innocent, because the Iraqi soldiers told them to stay inside.

Now the Iraqi soldiers have decided they want to build a permanent military base in the US, just like the we have built in Iraq. They claim that they will leave as soon as their form of Democracy is established, even though they built the permanent base there.

Now tell me, would you freely allow those Iraqi soldiers to tell you to stay in your home every night for an indefinite amount of time, telling you that if you leave they will be forced to shoot you, anyone, even children, because they would be suspected of being an insurgent who is trying to expel their forces from there and because the soldiers told you it's for your protection from the insurgents; or would you step outside because you no longer feel that you're free to live your life?

The curfew is set for "innocent civilians" safety as well as your own.

Once again, you put "innocent" in quotes. Are you once again implying that anyone who steps outside isn't an innocent?

They are not being held hostage, they are certainly free to leave

Sure they're free to leave, and risk being shot by soldiers who told them to stay inside.

but I guess intelligence would report that "insurgents would use the COVER OF DARKNESS" to move explosives or other weapons they intend to use.

You will have to show me what intelligence you're referring to, because if they assume no crimes are being committed during the day, then they're not very intelligent.

Don't criminals here use the cover of darkness to elude or evade caputer for crimes thay committed or intend to comit?

Don't criminals commit crimes during the day?

I tend to think that someone "out for a stroll on the town" after curfew would be "suspicious", don't you?

Suspicious of what exactly? Wanting to take a walk for fresh air?

But your thinking is that we are denying them the freedom to move about.

Isn't that what a curfew does?

THEY ARE IN A HOSTILE ENVIROMENT.

Well when you have soldiers telling you that you will be shot if you're caught leaving your home, so that they can go after people who want to kill them, of course it's going to be hostile environment.

But if I was to tell you that there is some sort of explosive device in your town that was set to go off at 10:30, and I said stay in your home, it's not safe here tonight. You wouldn't believe me, and would stroll into town to see if you could see it, huh?

If it's in my town, why would I want to stay in my home? Wouldn't the logical thing to be to leave the town, rather than place myself in danger by staying where a bomb would explode?

If your going to be a smart ass, you should think about what your talking about.

Pity you have resorted to name calling. I would give you the same advice.

As for your General Pace Quote

It wasn't my quote.

Back to the original topic of this thread, made me sick to my stomach is this part of the article:

"In Iran, we're dealing with a country where the leader has said that he wants to destroy Israel," Bush said during a visit to Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

Exactly when did Ahmadenejad say he wants to destroy Israel? The only translation that can come to my mind is the MEMRI translation/mis-translation, and if this is what Bush's remark was based on, then it saddens me that our own goverment hasn't translated Ahmadenejad's remark for themselves, and place all their faith on the MEMRI one.

[edit on 14-10-2007 by DJMessiah]

reply to post by cavscout


Really, out of all the posts I've read on this site, this one effected me the most. I don't know what you've gone through, but I think the fact that you're here telling us of your experiences means that you're not a coward, in my eyes.

Cav,

I don't know you, and you don't know me. But I don't think you are a coward. A "coward" runs in the face of adversity. They lay down their weapons and give up. They run when frightened. A "man" will stand and in the face of death and breath it's breath. In the begining everyone is scared, you question your ability, you question your own resolve to live. It's always easier to run, but you eventually reach a point where it's kill or be killed or the fight or flight response. You say that you didn't make any friends while in the service, but you had "brothers" rely on you everyday, wheather you were friends or not. You relied on them and they relied on you. You are brothers joined by an unspoken bond. You killed because that is what you had to do to protect yourself and the others in your platoon. Your not a killer as you say. I'm a police officer and I rely on my partner to make sure I go home at the end of my shift. If I was in a shoot out with a guy and my partner ran and didn't help me and I was killed because of it, my partner would quit and run and hide again because my "brothers", known and unknown, would eat him alive for leaving me there. He would be labled a COWARD for the rest of his life. It's my job to protect you and every other citizen in the town I work in. And one day I may just have to kill someone to protect someone that I never met. I put my life on the line every day for people I don't know. It's ok to be scared, theres alot of times I'm scared, and if you say your not, your a lier. There is just a point you must come to in our line of work, and the question is, do you have it in your heart to breath the breath of death and take anothers life? I passed that point along time ago. I know in my heart that I will not hesitate for a split second if I have to use deadly force. I will not run, I have the training to deal with life and death situations. But you can't train for every situation. I'm not a coward and neither are you. If you do hesitate at the "moment of truth" someone else from my dept. will arrive at my house at the end of my shift to tell my wife I'm dead. I'm sure she thinks about this and it's kept in the back of her mind everytime I walk out that door.... "is he coming home tonight?" At least she would know that if I was killed, I was killed trying to protect someone, and she would know that I stood there in the face of adversity and went down with a fight, she knows I'm not a coward......I would be her hero. Just like you are to your brothers in arms. One thing that was taught to me my first day on the job, was that no matter what, I go home at the end of the night..NO MATTER WHAT!! IN the begining I didn't know what that meant. I figured out later on that that is how you are taught to start to realize that you may have to kill someone. Later on I came to think about it this way, " I'd rather be judged by 12 then carried by six". It's easier for me to think about it that way. Hug your family when they get home and realize they did exactly what you did to go home at the end of their shift........Same as me.