Cop Pepper Sprays, Punches, Nearly Breaks Girl's Arm During Curfew Arrest

Alright, I've finally got some coffee in me. But I'll be brief.

Originally posted by Omega99
He had other options, like calmly explaining what is going to happen to her if she doesn't cooperate.

He did. "Stop resisting me or you're going to get hurt."

Do you have kids? Do you know how little spoiled turds behave when they don't get their way? This was a little brat who didn't want to do what she's told. The cop isn't going to threaten to take away her barbie dolls if she doesn't get upstairs and brush her teeth.

I see these little twerps all the time. She probably doesn't have a father at home, and her mother is incompetent and on welfare, so she gets to stay out all night with no consequences for her actions. She thinks she's a queen and entitled to whatever she desires. She'll probably have at least one kid by the time she's old enough to drink, and the cycle continues.

As far as the argument that seems to keep coming up about it just being a curfew violation, we don't know that. For all we know she was caught breaking into cars or dealing drugs. Knowing that police usually only arrest someone when they have to (they love all that paperwork), especially with minors, I highly doubt a curfew violation is what this was all about. However if this did all start over curfew, and she refused to call home or let the police call her parent(s) to come get her, she's headed to Juvi in handcuffs.

While it is clear instances of police brutality are on the rise, this is simply not one of them. This cop did everything by the book, and even demonstrated commendable restraint. Nothing new. Nothing abnormal. Nothing out-of-line.

Have any of you worked in law enforcement or maybe at a bar or as security at concerts???

First, the last person you want to deal with is a woman. They bite, pull hair, knee in the balls....a guy just swings.

Also, the 'leverage' arguement on the take down...try it. It is alot harder to apply tactics such as those in a real world situation as opposed to training for it. People get sweaty, slippery, and someone that size is very wiry. Hold to control.A large person in a fight could grab them and throw them to the ground, but a cop cannot do that. That is the difference. A cop has to subdue someone 'without' kicking their ass. That is a tough thing to do. I worked in Orlando at a few bars and I would much rather bounce a guy than a woman. They are evil.

She was told to stop...she tries to BITE him. Sorry, time for some spray. Sue is lucky she was not shocked with a taser, I would have. This is not Police brutality, it is the state of the youth in America who have no respect for authority.

Originally posted by apc
She probably doesn't have a father at home, and her mother is incompetent and on welfare, so she gets to stay out all night with no consequences for her actions. She thinks she's a queen and entitled to whatever she desires. She'll probably have at least one kid by the time she's old enough to drink, and the cycle continues.

i LOVE posts by thee.
sad thing is, the cop(s) probably feel this way too so they don't care...

how do you gather all this from a vid?
cause she was out late at night?

unreal...speculating to the finest degree

Originally posted by esdad71
First, the last person you want to deal with is a woman. They bite, pull hair, knee in the balls....a guy just swings.

^^^^i think that is the most lame thing i have ever heard....tons of generalizations floating around here....a guy 'just swings'

Also, the 'leverage' arguement on the take down...try it. It is alot harder to apply tactics such as those in a real world situation as opposed to training for it.

^^^^oh, i've tried it...been on both ends of it tons of times....is it hard to apply these tactics in real world situations? sometimes.....does that mean that whould not know these techniques? i think you are mistaken my friend....if you are trained in the proper techniques, a takedown/toss/throw is not as hard as you are making it out to be.

'oh, it's hard to learn the proper way to hold/toss/lock, so lets just not try and learn.
who cares if the cops are out of shape and have no self defense training...

this crap is getting old, fast

reply to post by Boondock78


Speculation based on her behavior, yes. You can tell a lot about someone by how they react to stressful situations.

I never knew we had a curfew, oh yeah wait its 11 but no onw cares...

IMO the girl was resisting arrest and the officer took nescessary actions, including using pepper spray, now pulling out a taser would have made it much worse. I have disagreed with every vid of police brutality except this one. This is what happens every day on the streets. I just wish you all could see how many times a day people get tasered and beat to the point that their first stop is the hospital then jail. If you did then maybe America would stand up against this crap that goes on today.

reply to post by apc


based on her behavior that you witnessed for like a minute, you deduced that she 'probably' has no father at home, an incompetant mother who is on welfare and don't care about her...also, from this you can deduce that she will probably be a young mother...

ok...guess you have special powers.

i watched again just now on cnn.

it's pretty funny how the cop is able to hold her with one hand(keeping her pinned on the car the whole time), talk on his mic, punch her, reach for the spray, spray her......he did all this while holding her with one hand..

had he knew how to manipulate her right wrist, none of that would have been needed....

I just see a common pattern of behavior. Interpret it however you wish.

You can whine all you want about how he should have been able to bust out some mad crazy leet ninja tactics on her, but this is reality we're dealing with.

When someone has their arm tightly clutched against their chest, it's not exactly easy to peel it away. Someone is going to get hurt. You can't expect that someone to be the cop.

This is on CNN? Oh brother. I give it three hours before Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are spewing their verbal diarrhea over this.

Originally posted by apc
I just see a common pattern of behavior. Interpret it however you wish.

You can whine all you want about how he should have been able to bust out some mad crazy leet ninja tactics on her, but this is reality we're dealing with.

When someone has their arm tightly clutched against their chest, it's not exactly easy to peel it away. Someone is going to get hurt. You can't expect that someone to be the cop.

This is on CNN? Oh brother. I give it three hours before Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are spewing their verbal diarrhea over this.

what pattern? you see this girl acting a certain way and you have her and her parents pegged...
i am not complaing about leet ninja tactics....i am suggesting BASIC joint locks/chokes/and throws....those are fantastic techniques for reality.

did i say i expect the cop to get hurt? i also never said it was gonna be easy to peel away but he had her left arm controlled. he had her right arm behind her multiple times and she kept pulling it forward...maybe, if he was not so worried about using the free hand to talk on the mic, punch her, and spray her, he could have grabbed her wrist on the proper spot and moved that arm straight to the back....

nobody is talking about insane ninja moves here....

yup. it's on heavy rotation on cnn this morning..

most cops are nothing but weak pussys and this kind a # makes me sick to my stomach...That cop needs his ass beat...I hope i run into him so i can smack him around...

[edit on 6-10-2007 by KLSyesca]

reply to post by Boondock78


Pathetic. But not unexpected. This is why I don't have cable. Between CNN, MSNBC, and FOX News, there's no point in paying for it because you won't even get unbiased reporting about a traffic jam.

You can see it that way if you want. That's just how they want you to see it. I see the cop showing clear restraint and doing everything he could to avoid hurting her. He could have used a lot more force a lot sooner, but he didn't, and I applaud him.

I hope the department officials tell the media and activists to piss off.

Originally posted by Fiverz
One thing I never understood about the law system is how black and white it is.

Breaking curfew against the law? Yup. DUI? Yup. Cold-blooded murder? Yup.

Does that mean in an instance where a teen was resisting arrest for breaking the law via curfew, he or she should be subject to the same treatment if he or she was resisting arrest as a known DUI or suspected murderer?

Breaking curfew is one thing, but then resisting the officer was a totally new event. Ok, so she broke curfew and the officer would tell her to get into his car, and then her parents would need to pick her up at the police station which would have been no big deal. With her resisting that just created a totally new event for the officer to handle and really had nothing to do with the curfew.

The problem comes when you say "well the law says anyone resisting arrest is to be treated with escalating levels of force." What about people that are REALLY doing no wrong and are being wrongfully arrested? Or those who are unaware of the law and have no idea what is going on? Should they be subject to the same levels of force as a suspected felon?

Well isn't everyone innocent until proven guilty? A cop is not dictating the person’s guilt by apprehending, and many people are apprehended everyday and then let go because at first they fit the profile/circumstances enough to be questioned. In this case the girl was clearing braking the curfew law, but I guess she didn’t want to be taken in.

I understand to protect themselves the cops have to treat all "unknowns" as "hostile". But doesn't that mentality just morph into a police state over time?

Dude, follow the cops directions and you will NEVER be a hostile, it is that simple.

I'll be honest with you ... if a cop came up to me threatening arrest my first instinct would not be to put my hands up - rather I would question it. If I truly believed when I was 16 that there was no curfew in my town (there was) I would have resisted arrest. I would not have bit an officer, but I'm not going to go down and roll over for something just because someone else says I should.

Good, then you find yourself hogtied in the back of a police car. You do not know why the cop needs to apprehend you. You just might fit the description of a robbery suspect down the block, so let the cops do their job and you will be helping them.

I guess my main problem isn't this video (proper force was probably used, personally I think I could have taken her down with a sharp knee to the proper place as Intrepid mentioned earlier) and whether or not the law she was arrested for was proper (it is .... curfews are in place for a reason) ... it's where questioning/resisting those in "authority" leaves us. I mean will YOU put your hands behind your back if they attempt to arrest you for watering your lawn on an even-numbered day? Just because a person somewhere in another county wrote it in a book? And be ok with a seperated shoulder when you resist arrest because you think the law is frivolous?

Thought I agree somewhat with this last statement of yours there are ways to fight a law other than through resisting arrest. You vote for your representatives and you can protest and get the community to back you. So you water your lawn illegally (very stupid law BTW) you still need to go peacefully with the cops and then fight it in court.

Let me ask you a question, a cop gives you a direct order such as ‘put your hands on my hood” and you then look him in the eye and say “no”. What do you think the cop should do here?

reply to post by dntwastetime


Hogwash just how many times is an officer supposed to tell her what to do? He gave her more them ample warnings and she refused too follow his directions so she deserved what she got. I also think it was exagerated about almost breaking her arm

[edit on 10/6/2007 by shots]

reply to post by apc


the only reason i don't think he did everything he could is cause he may not have BASIC self defense understanding or as you like to call it, 'leet ninja skills'.

thats not his fault though...the departments should make this typ of training available to every officer cause it is VERY effetive in real world situations...

it is certainly helpful when you have 100+ lbs on the suspect..

I find it hypocritical that some who claim this as brutality are advocating physical submission techniques.


Isn't that what pepper spray's intended use is, submission?

If the officer used a physical method,

I believe these same people would say..

"What's with this, he had pepper spray, why didn't he use it?"

Originally posted by JacKatMtn
I find it hypocritical that some who claim this as brutality are advocating physical submission techniques.

well, you're entitled to your opinion.
fact is, these locks and sumbissions work. they can subdue and they can help the cop defend themselves.

sorry but i would rather be put in a rear naked than get sprayed with mace ANY DAY...thats a no brainer..

if done properly, these holds will hurt untill they are let go..then they will not hurt anymore..
you only have limited control when you spray someone or taze them...5 seconds weather you like it or not....see what i mean.

with these holds, you can apply as much pressure as needed....

i really don't see the problem

Originally posted by Boondock78
the only reason i don't think he did everything he could is cause he may not have BASIC self defense understanding or as you like to call it, 'leet ninja skills'.

Mad crazy leet ninja skills.

He could have busted out some telekinesis too and just willed her arm behind her back.

Originally posted by Boondock78

'oh, it's hard to learn the proper way to hold/toss/lock, so lets just not try and learn.
who cares if the cops are out of shape and have no self defense training...

this crap is getting old, fast

Think of how it would look on that video if the cop put a choke on the girl as she flails for a few seconds and then her eyes flutter as she passes out. Then she lays limp on his hood as he handcuffs her? Holy Crap! Every ACLU want-a-be would try to get in on the action. Even now it is “he all most broke her arm” statements.

Personally, I think that pepper spray and Tasers are good tools that prevent the need to use ever increasing physical force to control a person. I do not see your point in ever cop needs to be a grappling expert to perform their jobs well. There should be no need to grapple a person, but when the situation arises let them use the tools that they have available. I do not care how good a cop is at grappling for anytime it becomes a hands on situation it is bad news.




[edit on 6-10-2007 by Xtrozero]

I disagree about the Tazers. Many jurisdictions have policies in place mandating Tazers only be used in situations where a firearm is involved or someone is otherwise physically threatened. I believe this should be a national policy as Tazers are capable of killing and resisting arrest in no way warrants lethal force.

If this cop had used a Tazer on the girl, I would be 100% against him in this matter.

Originally posted by shots
reply to post by dntwastetime

 

Hogwash just how many times is an officer supposed to tell her what to do? He gave her more them ample warnings and she refused too follow his directions so she deserved what she got. I also think it was exagerated about almost breaking her arm

[edit on 10/6/2007 by shots]

The elbow joint will break in half with a minimum impact from the opposite direction having force applied to the wrist. This is a breaking move in Quan ying do Chinese Kung Fu, As well as other martial arts, person swings, you grab wrist in mid punch, and break arm at elbow with your palm or by punching the elbow out of socket.The elbow has a few inches of play, the knees only have one inch give going backward or from anty direction then they break.
Sir, I did not create the thread title, Or write the article, I just presented it to you to see.I pasted the complete title from the external source. For future reference ,I do not manipulate titles of original articles.








[edit on 6-10-2007 by dntwastetime]