U.S. Marshal: NH Tax Evaders (Ed and Elaine Brown) Arrested

reply to post by C0le


Bookmarked. I'll check them out when it's not 1:00am with me having to work in the morning, lol.

Google "jekyll island" in reference to how the federal reserve came into being, these are the people and their successors are the ones who truly run this country, and ultimately the world, take a guess who loans china money and many of our enemies money, the same people who coin ours....
there is much more to what goes on then most know.

A select few run this world, they influence everything.

our enemies, are who they want them to be.

reply to post by C0le


I'll check that out tomorrow (or today but later). I drive for a living and prefer not to do so with no sleep.

You're an interesting group. I'll be back.

[edit on 6-10-2007 by Nitehawke]

[edit on 6-10-2007 by Nitehawke]

reply to post by Nitehawke


Not only would the import and export of national assets and goods bring in revenue, but title 26, which is claimed to apply to the average American, In short, applies to corporations, and business involved in international trade/export, theres much more to it then what I've stated its just in general.

Think about this, the amount of "interest" alone that has built up since 1913, from the borrowing of money, in which the government doesn't have to borrow in the first place, because it alone has the power to coin money and regulate the value of it, would pay for everything mentioned.

If congress would take back its power to create and regulate the value of money, the income tax wouldn't need to exist, the whole reason of the income tax is to pay for the money they borrow.. they don't need to borrow it !

Originally posted by Nitehawke
Come on, let's hear the grand plan for keeping the country running WITHOUT a federal income tax.

To quote one of our nations' earliest tax resistors:
"I heartily accept the motto, 'That government is best which governs least'; and I should like to see it acted up to more rapidly and systematically. Carried out, it finally amounts to this, which also I believe—'That government is best which governs not at all'; and when men are prepared for it, that will be the kind of government which they will have."

[edit on 6-10-2007 by Firestorm_]

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi
It's not taxes that are the problem. It's only the tax on labor that's the problem. That's the illegal one.

Source: The Constitution of the United States of America

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

Looks legal to me...


Also, does anyone else find it strange that the only countries without income taxes are developing or third world countries. Can't be a coincidence can it?

And if you don't like the income taxes here, try Europe
Now if there was a Brown type situation over there, that would be completely understandable. But here....really makes no sense

A few things stated earlier:
Cole -

The money you receive in exchange for your work, is not taxable income as defined by the U.S Code.

Unfortunately money doesn't fall from the sky, so the money your receive in exchange for work is what we define as income. What did you think they meant by taxing income if not money you receive from your employment?

Congress has given this power away to a Private
Central bank, This bank is known to us as the Federal Reserve, Some would
and do believe that the Federal Reserve is a part of the United States
Government, It is not, It is a privately owned institution operated by
various share holding banks and bankers.

This is incorrect. There is no such thing as a Federal Reserve bank. There is a Federal Reserve system. And the government does oversee this system as it is a independent government agency.
And the government technically still prints and coins money. They do it, and the Fed pays the U.S. for it in order to circulate it.

The Federal Reserve prints money backed by nothing out of thin air, then loans it to our Government at interest, this means for every dollar our
Government borrows, comes a certain percentage of interest attached to it.

As stated above the Gov prints the money but you're right, they do borrow it right back

And it isn't backed by anything. Do people understand why though?

NOM:

The government pays for the wars. They pay for the CIA sponsored overseas coups. They pay for the occupations and stealing of resources from other nations.

They could easily get money from doing this crazy thing called trading with other nations. I know that's a totally wacky idea and involves actually getting along with nations, but trust me, it would work

Our current Budget -
* $699 billion - Defense
* $586.1 billion - Social Security
* $394.5 billion - Medicare
* $367.0 billion - Unemployment and welfare
* $276.4 billion - Medicaid and other health related
* $243.7 billion - Interest on debt
* $89.9 billion - Education and training
* $76.9 billion - Transportation
* $72.6 billion - Veterans' benefits
* $43.5 billion - Natural resources and environment
* $32.5 billion - Foreign affairs
* $27.0 billion - Agriculture
* $26.8 billion - Community and regional development
* $25.0 billion - Science and technology
* $23.5 billion - Energy
* $20.1 billion - General government

You try getting the states to pay for all of that

Trading?
Name one country that does more trade than the U.S.!

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi

Originally posted by jsobecky
Apparently the Feds went in disguised as supporters, and busted them without incident.

That's low and pathetic. I hope their release is forced. They did nothing wrong.

:shk:

Going in and arresting criminals 'without incident' is 'low and pathetic'???
Would you rather that the government goes in like they did in WACO and end up with everyone dead?

Oh .. and the definately DID do something wrong. They are criminals.

reply to post by Nitehawke


If you think our labor taxes pay for all of that by itself, and they have no other source of money, then I'm sorry for you.

I'm not telling you to shut up. I presented a way to fix this. You ignored it.

You people think that we need to find a way to have a flow of money to adjust to our current spending habits. Why not change the spending habits?

Why start illegal wars? Why steal from other countries? Why be the hard asses of the world and make everyone hate us? Why not trade and talk with other nations? Why not make other nations LIKE us rather than hate us?

You ask what that will do? It'll allow us to drop our defense and intelligence spending. It'll stop the Federal Reserve from printing money at a furious rate, dropping the value of our dollar. As a result, the housing markets will improve. Without the labor tax, people will have more money to spend. More money will circulate through stores, restaurants, services etc.

Corporations have to pay an income tax. THAT is what an INCOME TAX is. A LABOR tax is different.

The corporations would be paying hundreds of billions in taxes - as they should - since they make far more.

I won't keep going, but I truly hope you see the chain reaction effect something like this has.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Source: The Constitution of the United States of America

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

Looks legal to me...

Can you show me where it says a labor tax? Income is what corporations and businesses make as a result of their services. Wages from labor is the result of your personal work and getting paid for it.

I do the work for you - you pay me in return. That's how that works. That's labor and wages. That's not corporate income.

You show me the law that says I have to pay a labor tax to the Federal Reserve and IRS, and I'll shut up.

Go find the law. The burden of proof is on you. We've already shown that the Constitution does not say a labor tax is constitutional. So you show the law that says it is.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Our current Budget -
* $699 billion - Defense
* $586.1 billion - Social Security
* $394.5 billion - Medicare
* $367.0 billion - Unemployment and welfare
* $276.4 billion - Medicaid and other health related
* $243.7 billion - Interest on debt
* $89.9 billion - Education and training
* $76.9 billion - Transportation
* $72.6 billion - Veterans' benefits
* $43.5 billion - Natural resources and environment
* $32.5 billion - Foreign affairs
* $27.0 billion - Agriculture
* $26.8 billion - Community and regional development
* $25.0 billion - Science and technology
* $23.5 billion - Energy
* $20.1 billion - General government

You try getting the states to pay for all of that

In my post before this, I laid out a chain reaction effect in the economy if we simply are a peaceful nation.

Defense would drop. More jobs would be created, so welfare and unemployment would drop. Debt would drop. Education and transportation are paid for by the states.

We could stand to put more in to the environment and energy and things such as that.

Social Security? Health? I believe people pay Social Security themselves on their pay checks, as well as Health Insurance. So I'm not sure exactly what the government is paying for there.

I would pay a smaller tax on my labor if it was actually put into something worth while. If it were put into finding an alternative fuel source, or for things for the environment, or for city development, or even for things like space exploration - you know - PEACEFUL things.

But I'm not going to pay an illegal labor tax so that they can send our soldiers overseas to die for their greed.

And also, where did you get that budget list? I'm not attacking your source, I'm just curious where it came from.

[edit on 10/6/07 by NovusOrdoMundi]

I thought I already explained this, but apparently I didn't. Either that or you didn't read.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Going in and arresting criminals 'without incident' is 'low and pathetic'???

They aren't criminals. They did nothing wrong.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Would you rather that the government goes in like they did in WACO and end up with everyone dead?

No - I'd rather we do a better job of acting like we're a free nation and actually not arrest non-criminals.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Oh .. and the definately DID do something wrong. They are criminals.

Show me what law they violated. I want the full law. All the text. Everything that says they have to pay a tax on their labor.

Originally posted by Mirthful Me


As I pointed out in this post:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

You are using the wrong URL... Of course you not going to see the websites, my question is; after demonstrating that they are indeed up, why are you still posting that they aren't?

p.s. I just checked again... They are still up.

Oh no I wasn't saying they were still down I was just saying that I tried to get the word out when the sites when down. As I explained before, I called my ISP to see if the problem was there and they told me they could view the site just fine. After that I asked people on other forums and some reported they could see it just fine but some said that yes indeed the sites were down.

I would speculate that it was a selective censor thing. The last time they tested the waters word was put out through the net with in minutes. This time the sites they used to communicate were offline for awhile... Those sites are back up but for a few hours before 7:45 I couldn't access them nor could some other folks.... but now that the browns are in custody those sites are back up and accessable from my connection once again...

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Unfortunately money doesn't fall from the sky, so the money your receive in exchange for work is what we define as income. What did you think they meant by taxing income if not money you receive from your employment?

I'm not doing your home work for you but 1. Our meanings and legal meaning are two separate things, go look into the Supreme court rulings as to what "income" is, and how its created, Also look at title 26, and find the area that applies to you, then when you see the text about how we are liable to pay "taxable income" the area most people stop at and assume it applies to us...
look at the defined meaning of what "taxable income is, also look at the meaning of what "gross income" is, then look at the meaning of "source"

This is incorrect. There is no such thing as a Federal Reserve bank. There is a Federal Reserve system. And the government does oversee this system as it is a independent government agency.
And the government technically still prints and coins money. They do it, and the Fed pays the U.S. for it in order to circulate it.

As stated above the Gov prints the money but you're right, they do borrow it right back

The Government doesn't print anything, do some research instead of being a cheerleader for something you know very little or nothing about.

NOM:

You try getting the states to pay for all of that

Who pays for it now?
Where do they live?



[edit on 6-10-2007 by C0le]

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi
Can you show me where it says a labor tax? Income is what corporations and businesses make as a result of their services.

Income:

For corporations, revenues minus cost of sales, operating expenses, and taxes, over a given period of time. Income is the reason corporations exist, and are often the single most important determinant of a stock's price. Income is important to investors because they give an indication of the company's expected futuredividends and its potential for growth and capital appreciation. That does not necessarily mean that low or negative earnings always indicate a bad stock; for example, many young companies report negative income as they attempt to grow quickly enough to capture a new market, at which point they'll be even more profitable than they otherwise might have been. also called earnings.

For individuals, money earned through employment and investments.

It's very simple. I find it difficult to believe you guys don't know what the meaning of income is....

I do the work for you - you pay me in return. That's how that works. That's labor and wages. That's not corporate income.

You show me the law that says I have to pay a labor tax to the Federal Reserve and IRS, and I'll shut up.

If you work for me, what I give you is YOUR income.
There's no such thing as a labor tax, we have an income tax.
You pay taxes to the IRS only, the IRS is a government agency that is part of the Department of Treasury.

Go find the law. The burden of proof is on you. We've already shown that the Constitution does not say a labor tax is constitutional. So you show the law that says it is.

Again, there's no such thing as a labor tax. There is an income tax and the link that I posted above I posted for a reason. It shows all the Supreme Court decisions surrounding the 16th. So, it's up to YOU to show me that the Constitution and Supreme Court is illegal.

In my post before this, I laid out a chain reaction effect in the economy if we simply are a peaceful nation.

Defense would drop. More jobs would be created, so welfare and unemployment would drop. Debt would drop. Education and transportation are paid for by the states.

1. Do you know why we're a peaceful nation? It's because we spend a ton on defense, lol
2. Do you realize how many jobs there are in defense??? Unemployment would SKYROCKET should we see a big drop in defense. Which means even more people would be on welfare.
A ton of money is given to states for educations and the government gives out a ton in college loans. Any drop in that would be devastating. The states can NOT replace that money
The interstate system is paid for by the government. Meaning the most traveled highways are paid for by the government.
Where in the world are you getting your info?

Social Security? Health? I believe people pay Social Security themselves on their pay checks, as well as Health Insurance. So I'm not sure exactly what the government is paying for there.

Not sure if you realize how Social Security works....
Wiki can explain it better than I can
en.wikipedia.org...

And also, where did you get that budget list? I'm not attacking your source, I'm just curious where it came from.

You can find that info anywhere...
What I posted was 2007
www.gpoaccess.gov...

2008 is also available
www.gpoaccess.gov...


Cole:

I'm not doing your home work for you but 1. Our meanings and legal meaning are two separate things, go look into the Supreme court rulings as to what "income" is, and how its created

Yes, I posted that link above to show the Supreme Court rulings.

Also look at title 26, and find the area that applies to you, then when you see the text about how we are liable to pay "taxable income" the area most people stop at and assume it applies to us...
look at the defined meaning of what "taxable income is, also look at the meaning of what "gross income" is, then look at the meaning of "source"

taxable income
gross income

Source means:
(a) General definition
Except as otherwise provided in this subtitle, gross income means all income from whatever source derived, including (but not limited to) the following items:

(1) Compensation for services, including fees, commissions, fringe benefits, and similar items;
(2) Gross income derived from business;
(3) Gains derived from dealings in property;
(4) Interest;
(5) Rents;
(6) Royalties;
(7) Dividends;
(8) Alimony and separate maintenance payments;
(9) Annuities;
(10) Income from life insurance and endowment contracts;
(11) Pensions;
(12) Income from discharge of indebtedness;
(13) Distributive share of partnership gross income;
(14) Income in respect of a decedent; and
(15) Income from an interest in an estate or trust.

Not sure what your point was....

The Government doesn't print anything, do some research instead of being a cheerleader for something you know very little or nothing about.

1. What am I cheerleading?
2. Unlike you I actually do my research.
The Bureau of Engraving and Printing prints the money
www.moneyfactory.gov...

The U.S. Mint coins money
www.usmint.gov...

Are you denying this?

Who pays for it now?
Where do they live?

The Federal Government (through our taxes). That's the Federal Budget.
Where does who live?

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
It's very simple. I find it difficult to believe you guys don't know what the meaning of income is....

Income and wages from labor are two very different things.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
If you work for me, what I give you is YOUR income.

It's my wages from labor.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
There's no such thing as a labor tax, we have an income tax.

Exactly, so we shouldn't be having our wages from labor taxed. That's not income. Corporate profit is income. THAT income tax is legal. The labor wages tax isn't.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
You pay taxes to the IRS only, the IRS is a government agency that is part of the Department of Treasury.

You do realize the Federal Reserve has their hands in it as well, don't you? You do realize it is a private bank, don't you?

If you don't, then I don't know why I'm talking to you. You need to do more research if you don't know that.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Again, there's no such thing as a labor tax.

They're taxing our labor wages without there being a law.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
1. Do you know why we're a peaceful nation?

We're a peaceful nation?

Wow

You just destroyed your credibility.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Which means even more people would be on welfare.

More jobs would open up.

Economics doesn't seem to be your thing, because what I laid out was very clear and very precise, but you seem to be ignoring facts to justify your slanted point of view.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
A ton of money is given to states for educations

No. States pay for the education by themselves.

PLEASE do research.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
The interstate system is paid for by the government.

No. The roads are paid for by the 46 cent per gallon gas tax.

Again - PLEASE do research.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Not sure if you realize how Social Security works....
Wiki can explain it better than I can
en.wikipedia.org...

Wikipedia? No thanks.

NovusOrdoMundi, Covered most of it.
as far as the rulings, I'm not seeing the cases in which they are applicable listed in any of the links you proved nor the full explanation of how they came to the conclusions.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Source means:
(a) General definition
Except as otherwise provided in this subtitle, gross income means all income from whatever source derived, including (but not limited to) the following items:

(1) Compensation for services, including fees, commissions, fringe benefits, and similar items;
(2) Gross income derived from business;
(3) Gains derived from dealings in property;
(4) Interest;
(5) Rents;
(6) Royalties;
(7) Dividends;
(8) Alimony and separate maintenance payments;
(9) Annuities;
(10) Income from life insurance and endowment contracts;
(11) Pensions;
(12) Income from discharge of indebtedness;
(13) Distributive share of partnership gross income;
(14) Income in respect of a decedent; and
(15) Income from an interest in an estate or trust.

Not sure what your point was....

All of the above sources are all gains derived from corporate dealings, if you read further into title 26, it clearly defines many entities in which it applies to, nowhere however does it clearly make the individual residing in the 50 states liable to pay a tax on their labor.

It does apply to the individual if they meet a certain criteria as listed in the relevant chapters of the code, however it does not apply to most Americans.

[edit on 6-10-2007 by C0le]

I'm not sure if you guys are being serious or not.
Could you all please provide links to the CRAP you all are posting. I'm very confused as to where you're getting this mess from.

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi
Income and wages from labor are two very different things.

No. It's. Not.
Again, please provide a link to where in the world you got that from.

[Exactly, so we shouldn't be having our wages from labor taxed. That's not income. Corporate profit is income. THAT income tax is legal. The labor wages tax isn't.

My link explains it. The DICTIONARY explains it

You do realize the Federal Reserve has their hands in it as well, don't you? You do realize it is a private bank, don't you?

Again, there is no one Federal Reserve bank. This is a common misunderstanding. There is a Federal Reserve System which IS a government agency (albeit an independent one). Under this system there are private banks.

They're taxing our labor wages without there being a law.

Since when is the constitution not the law?

We're a peaceful nation?

Wow

You just destroyed your credibility.

lol, meant to say why'd we become one. (But relatively speaking, only what? 10% are actively engaged in "wars" which should have been over a long time ago now)

More jobs would open up.

From where?

Economics doesn't seem to be your thing, because what I laid out was very clear and very precise, but you seem to be ignoring facts to justify your slanted point of view.

You didn't lay out ANYTHING at all. What facts!?!?! You're stating that should we cut defense that magically jobs to replace those loss will just fall from the sky. I'm looking at it logically and I'm saying it doesn't work like that.
Just looking at the defense department, they have about 700,000 employees not including the over 2 million military employees. Where are the jobs for them going to come from??

No. States pay for the education by themselves.

PLEASE do research.

Me do research???
You're over here making blanket statements and haven't back ANYTHING up. Where the ( ) are you getting your info from???
You have done absolutely NO research at all.
The Government pays close to 10% of public school fundings btw. Why do you think there's so much talk about the Left Behind Act? It's because the government threatens to withhold money from failing schools.

The biggest thing though is student aide. The government is by far the largest funder of financial aide for college.

No. The roads are paid for by the 46 cent per gallon gas tax.

Again - PLEASE do research.

How about you read what I said. I said the Interstate System. You know the road that will take you to anywhere in this country. The states control them within their state but they are funded by the gov.
Research why the drinking age is 21.

Wikipedia? No thanks.

Ignorance is bliss no?


Cole:
www.law.cornell.edu...
www.law.cornell.edu...
www.law.cornell.edu...
+ the links above.
They specify who and what's excluded. Most Americans ARE indeed included.

Or could you say what you're referring to?

[edit on 6-10-2007 by ThatsJustWeird]

TITLE 26, The Internal Revenue Code.

TITLE 26 > Subtitle A > CHAPTER 1 > Subchapter A > PART I > § 1

§ 1. Tax imposed



This section highlights the related matters along with the tax tables.
We will look at these parts as they most apply to what we would term Average Americans

a) Married individuals filing joint returns and surviving spouses
There is hereby imposed on the taxable income of—
(1) every married individual (as defined in section 7703) who makes a single return jointly with his spouse

under section 6013, and
(2) every surviving spouse (as defined in section 2 (a)),

And

c) Unmarried individuals (other than surviving spouses and heads of households)
There is hereby imposed on the taxable income of every individual (other than a surviving spouse as defined in

section 2 (a) or the head of a household as defined in section 2 (b)) who is not a married individual (as

defined in section 7703) a tax determined in accordance with the following table:

As shown it states a taxable income is imposed on the above.


So what is taxable income?

As defined in,

TITLE 26 > Subtitle A > CHAPTER 1 > Subchapter B > PART I > § 61

Gross income defined:

(a) General definition
Except as otherwise provided in this subtitle, gross income means all income from whatever source derived,

including (but not limited to) the following items:
(1) Compensation for services, including fees, commissions, fringe benefits, and similar items;
(2) Gross income derived from business;
(3) Gains derived from dealings in property;
(4) Interest;
(5) Rents;
(6) Royalties;
(7) Dividends;
(8) Alimony and separate maintenance payments;
(9) Annuities;
(10) Income from life insurance and endowment contracts;
(11) Pensions;
(12) Income from discharge of indebtedness;
(13) Distributive share of partnership gross income;
(14) Income in respect of a decedent; and
(15) Income from an interest in an estate or trust.
(b) Cross references
For items specifically included in gross income, see part II (sec. 71 and following). For items specifically

excluded from gross income, see part III (sec. 101 and following)

In this section, Take note of the IRS double speak, from whatever source derived, including (but not limited to) the following items:

Some will claim the term from whatever source derived means just that, And that the Average American is liable to pay tax on the fruits of there labor, However at this point nowhere is it clearly defined, That the Average American is liable to pay the Income Tax

It should be noted that the term source is not defined in the the code, therefore we cannot assume its meaning beyond that which it states.
So where to now? Well lets take a look at a few other definitions within the code,

TITLE 26 > Subtitle A > CHAPTER 1 > Subchapter B > PART I

PART I—DEFINITION OF GROSS INCOME, ADJUSTED GROSS INCOME, TAXABLE INCOME, ETC.

This section is as follows,

§ 61. Gross income defined
§ 62. Adjusted gross income defined
§ 63. Taxable income defined
§ 64. Ordinary income defined
§ 65. Ordinary loss defined

Section 61, and Section 63 have been covered thus far, lets have a look at Section 62 now,

TITLE 26 > Subtitle A > CHAPTER 1 > Subchapter B > PART I > § 62

§ 62. Adjusted gross income defined

(a) General rule
For purposes of this subtitle, the term “adjusted gross income” means, in the case of an individual, gross

income minus the following deductions:
(1) Trade and business deductions
The deductions allowed by this chapter (other than by part VII of this subchapter) which are attributable to a

trade or business carried on by the taxpayer, if such trade or business does not consist of the performance of

services by the taxpayer as an employee.
(2) Certain trade and business deductions of employees
(A) Reimbursed expenses of employees
The deductions allowed by part VI (section 161 and following) which consist of expenses paid or incurred by the

taxpayer, in connection with the performance by him of services as an employee, under a reimbursement or other

expense allowance arrangement with his employer. The fact that the reimbursement may be provided by a third

party shall not be determinative of whether or not the preceding sentence applies.
(B) Certain expenses of performing artists
The deductions allowed by section 162 which consist of expenses paid or incurred by a qualified performing

artist in connection with the performances by him of services in the performing arts as an employee.
(C) Certain expenses of officials
The deductions allowed by section 162 which consist of expenses paid or incurred with respect to services

performed by an official as an employee of a State or a political subdivision thereof in a position compensated

in whole or in part on a fee basis.

ect ect ect...



Continued....



[edit on 6-10-2007 by C0le]

To reiterate, These are again dealings a Corporation, Business, or Employer, would encounter.


lets have a look at Section 64 now,

TITLE 26 > Subtitle A > CHAPTER 1 > Subchapter B > PART I > § 64

§ 64. Ordinary income defined

For purposes of this subtitle, the term “ordinary income” includes any gain from the sale or exchange of property which is neither a capital asset nor property described in section 1231 (b). Any gain from the sale
or exchange of property which is treated or considered, under other provisions of this subtitle, as “ordinary income” shall be treated as gain from the sale or exchange of property which is neither a capital asset nor property described in section 1231 (b).

Now these dealings could be encountered by the Average American however, These are dealing with gains, Not labor.

Again up to this point, Nothing has clearly stated the Average American is liable to pay an income tax
It has however clearly outlined, the dealings of Corporations, Businesses, and Employers.

Now lets look at another part of the code.

TITLE 26 > Subtitle A > CHAPTER 1 > Subchapter N > PART I

PART I—SOURCE RULES AND OTHER GENERAL RULES RELATING TO FOREIGN INCOME

§ 861. Income from sources within the United States
§ 862. Income from sources without the United States
§ 863. Special rules for determining source
§ 864. Definitions and special rules
§ 865. Source rules for personal property sales

Lets have a look into Section 861, Income from sources within the United States

note: The following are exerpts from the code, not the full detailed descriptions

(a) Gross income from sources within United States
The following items of gross income shall be treated as income from sources within the United States:
(1) Interest
(2) Dividends
(3) Personal services
(4) Rentals and royalties
(5) Disposition of United States real property interest
(6) Sale or exchange of inventory property

ect ect ect...

Now if you read further into each of these parts they refer to the actions of Corporations, Business dealings and gains, Not The Average Americans labor

Now lets have a look at,

Subtitle C—Employment Taxes

TITLE 26 > Subtitle C > CHAPTER 24 > § 3402


§ 3402. Income tax collected at source

(a) Requirement of withholding
(1) In general
Except as otherwise provided in this section, every employer making payment of wages shall deduct and withhold upon such wages a tax determined in accordance with tables or computational procedures prescribed by the

Secretary. Any tables or procedures prescribed under this paragraph shall—
(A) apply with respect to the amount of wages paid during such periods as the Secretary may prescribe, and
(B) be in such form, and provide for such amounts to be deducted and withheld, as the Secretary determines to

be most appropriate to carry out the purposes of this chapter and to reflect the provisions of chapter 1

applicable to such periods

ect ect ect, this section goes on to list the amounts of wages to be withheld..

So what are wages?

The code defines wages as,

The term “wages” means all remuneration (other than fees paid to a public official) for services performed by an employee for his employer.

So it would seem the Employer can withhold wages from the employee for the purpose of the income tax, Or so it implies

Note: as stated we are now in Subtitle C, and not in Subtitle A which applies to individuals, Also in Subtitle A as outlined nowhere was it clearly defined the Average American was liable to pay a tax on his labor, What we have concluded from Subtitle A is that it applies to Individuals involved in Corporate, and Business dealings.

Also take note of the following sections beyond that which I listed in Section 3402.

Lets get back to this section, It states that the Employer making a payment of wages, shall deduct upon such wages a tax.

Notice the word play here, shall deduct upon such wages, it implies as stated above, That the employer is to deduct from your wages, But based on the full context of the code, Which Does not apply at least
this far, to the Average American that this part should be read in the context and point of view of the employer not the employee, Hence the source, So we can conclude that this means the employer isn't to withhold or deduct from your wages, but withhold and deduct from his gains, upon such wages.

Remember the definitions previously stated, thus far the income tax applies to the gains made by Corporations, and Businesses, and not the the Average Americans labor...

Also lets take note of TITLE 26 > Subtitle C > CHAPTER 24 > § 3403


§ 3403. Liability for tax

The employer shall be liable for the payment of the tax required to be deducted and withheld under

this chapter, and shall not be liable to any person for the amount of any such payment.

[edit on 6-10-2007 by C0le]

reply to post by ThatsJustWeird


legal meanings are what matters here, the dictionary does define some things, but the things in the dictionary don't always have the same legal meanings.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
No. It's. Not.

Yes. It. Is.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Again, there is no one Federal Reserve bank. This is a common misunderstanding. There is a Federal Reserve System which IS a government agency (albeit an independent one). Under this system there are private banks.

Please do some research, then get back to me.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Since when is the constitution not the law?

Since when did I say it wasn't?

Point out where in the Constitution it says labor can be taxed, and I'll drop my part of this argument.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
From where?

When the economy is doing well, jobs are created. That's common sense.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
You didn't lay out ANYTHING at all. What facts!?!?!

I did lay it out. You're just choosing to ignore it.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
You're stating that should we cut defense that magically jobs to replace those loss will just fall from the sky.

Show me where I said we should abolish our military, and you'll be right about what you say.

Since I never said that, we'll go ahead and assume you're wrong, and you're putting words in my mouth.

My basic point is we don't need to spend $700 billion on our military when China, the second highest amount of money spent on military, barely hits $100 billion.

All of that is not necessary, and in fact, it's quite pathetic, because we spend all of that, yet we're allegedly having issues in Iraq.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Just looking at the defense department, they have about 700,000 employees not including the over 2 million military employees. Where are the jobs for them going to come from??

Again, stop putting words in my mouth. I didn't say abolish military. Since I didn't say that, all of those jobs wouldn't be lost.

Yes, some jobs would be lost with cut spending.

But if you know anything about economics, then you'll know that diverting at least a couple hundred billion to local communities and city development, rather than dumping it into the military, would create jobs in those areas, which would push the process of cleaning up poor areas, which would help the housing market, which, in the end, would give more people extra money to spend. Extra money to spend means they'll be spending more money, circulating that through the economy, allowing businesses to profit more, meaning they can now open up more jobs, and the cycle repeats itself.

This isn't tough, dude.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Me do research???
You're over here making blanket statements and haven't back ANYTHING up. Where the ( ) are you getting your info from???
You have done absolutely NO research at all.
The Government pays close to 10% of public school fundings btw. Why do you think there's so much talk about the Left Behind Act? It's because the government threatens to withhold money from failing schools.

As an example - I live in Michigan. Recently, the state government could not manage to reach an agreement on a budget plan. Eventually they did, but had they not, on October 22nd, public schools would have been shut down, and college loans would have stopped as a result of the government shut down.

States pay for the education. The federal government merely has oversight on the education and decides what is in the curriculum. They pay for VERY little, if any at all.

The states cover the education.

Again, please do research.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
How about you read what I said. I said the Interstate System. You know the road that will take you to anywhere in this country. The states control them within their state but they are funded by the gov.
Research why the drinking age is 21.

The federal gasoline tax, which dates from 1932 and is used to support mass transit and highways, is currently 18.4 cents per gallon. The average tax on gasoline, including federal, state, and local taxes, is 41 cents per gallon.

source

My bad, 41 cents per gallon.

But as you see, the federal, state, and local governments put tax on gas to pay for the roads.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Ignorance is bliss no?

Give me another link and I'll look at it. But Wikipedia is no credible source. As you should know, it can be edited. I could go on there right now and edit it to say something that favors my argument.

I won't, and I'm not saying you did that, but it can be done.