I Love Jesus more than anything....

Some of you need to give it a rest.

Because you think Jesus is just an idea or myth is not the point, the point is that someone experienced a spiritual awakening....PERIOD! That's a good thing. Who cares how they did it? The only thing that matters is that another human being became a better person, and not how they went about doing it.

Props to the OP!

Peace

Well said DrL.

Now if dominicus can live up to being loved by Christ and not backslide into the sin of arrogance and I'm special because Christ love's me; then you really got something.

Most Christians I know have a level of spiritual arrogance that makes me want to puke. If more Christians would exhibit the humility that Christ displayed, maybe I could feel a little more compassion toward them.

Originally posted by dominicus1Kacen,
Perhaps you have been tricked by "anti-christian propoganda" which is practically all around us and has even infiltrated the church itself. Murder, bigotry, and hatred is the way of the enemy and is far from true Christianity. What you have described is the ways of the enemy, and let me tell you, we are surrounded by those ways of life even within the church.

However a true Christian that has undergone the Enlightenment transformation of the Holy Spirit, doesn't have an ounce of any of those 3 things you mentioned. It's just pure Love for all, just like how I Love you even though I know you have a false pretense about the truth at the heart of the matter.
[edit on 3-10-2007 by dominicus1]

I know Jesus himself never personally taught bigotry and hatred; what I'm saying is that he led to it.

The pagan religions were much more tolerant of other beliefs before Christianity spread.

Also while not all Christians believe everything, in all honesty the Bible is sexist among other things.

Originally posted by Kacen
The pagan religions were much more tolerant of other beliefs before Christianity spread.

Is that a good thing? If my beliefs hold that murder is bad, but my neighbor holds that murder is acceptable, should I be tolerant of his beliefs and just let him practice his beliefs? What about if he wants to practice his beliefs on me? When does tolerance end? Where is the line where we say no?

And if you're thinking "human rights", who defines those? What gives any human a "right"?

reply to post by junglejake


straw man. christian morality is in no way superior to secular morality or the morality systems of other religions once you exclude the faith-exclusive parts (stuff like the first commandment and idol making)

Dr Love,
Thank you for the awsome words
____
Whaaa,
Yeah backsliding is a big prob for virtually everyone. I believe to reach a state where you no longer sinning (including your thought life) you have to be a disciplined monk. The importance is to start with the big one's and then eventually clean up the thought life as well.

No arrogance here, I respect all equally and me having a spiritual experience doesn't put me above anyone else. What it does do is make want to shrink at the realization of just How Big God is. Humility & humbleness are utterly important.
_____
Kacen, the Bible is sexist in the old testament because that's the way it was back then, even in pagan religions (most of them anyway) were also sexist. After Jesus came he taught the view of equality, i.e. men and women both have souls so they're equal.

I am tolerant of other religions because I know, unless there is direct divine interference in the world that shows everyone else, 1 true way directly from above that everyone can see (Such as Jesus appearing in the sky or something similar) until then, we will continue to live in a panthiestic world. Besides that, I know Love complete strangers so I consider evryone a brother & sister to me.
____

JungleJake,
I have a whole seperate post I'm preparing for your questions.
____
Madness,
I think the reply I preparing for junglejake will also be directed to your post as well. Regardless whether it's secular or non-secular moralty, if God exists (which I hold to be a truth, then our morals are imprinted/implanted from above, how ever if God doesn't exist then we are victims of the social moral norms, which constantly chage through-out times and societies. I got more on the way.

God and the Devil only exist in people.

People create, through good humane actions, a sense of good and decency. People give themselves the power to make change or help others.

People create, through greed and inhumane actions, a sense of evil in the world. People allow natural human violence to force that evil in the world on others.

No one is guided by a god. No one is controlled by a devil. There is no heaven. There is no hell.

Jesus is a fictional character, much like all other "prophets" and "saviors".

The story of Jesus is nearly identical to the story of the Egyptian God, Horus, who's story existed long before Jesus. Please look that up.

I am all for people having their right to freedom of religion. I have no problem with people believing in a god.

But to me, it ignores all logic. Science has disproved religion many times. If that just isn't your thing, and you'd rather believe in a higher power, that's all you.

But if you like facts, please research the parallels between Jesus and Horus. Please look around the world and see that, if there is a god, as George Carlin put it - "this is not good work."

I'm Atheist, clearly. I don't believe in a higher power.

But I do, however, believe that people themselves create, through their actions, the appearance that there is a god and there is a devil. Basic human nature, and the power of our subconscious mind, create a "good" and "evil" force in this world. Humans are the ones who set and control their own destiny.

Not some higher, invisible, creature.

Originally posted by junglejakeIs that a good thing? If my beliefs hold that murder is bad, but my neighbor holds that murder is acceptable, should I be tolerant of his beliefs and just let him practice his beliefs? What about if he wants to practice his beliefs on me? When does tolerance end? Where is the line where we say no?

And if you're thinking "human rights", who defines those? What gives any human a "right"?

Depends. Thats all I'm gonna say.

NovusOrdoMuni,
Wow, you've definatley made some statements with out any backup what so ever. I've done research on Horus because I'm getting ready to create a Zeitgeist movie rebuttal, and let me tell you that Horus was not born of a virgin, did not have 12 disciples, no crucifixtion, and had nothing to do with anything that Jesus did, and this is all comming from actual Egyptian scriptures. There is even a post on here by one of the moderators (jbird) is correcting everyone on these non existant similarities.

If there is no heaven/hell then it's your word vs. the words of countless of religious texts, near-death experiences, visions, prophets, and so forth. So far you hold no weight in this argument.

"Jesus is fictional" Well again your a minority and there is more proof for his existence then against. He promised that his followers would receive and be Enlightened by the Holy Spirit, which wasn't given out until he came. I'm not a prohpet or anybody special, and yet through following the precepts of Jesus and himself, I have recieved this promise, which is more than enough proof that he is real, at least to me and those who knew the "old me," and the "new me with the Spirit within me-me.

AGain I have stacks of papers that refute Horus being the same as Jesus.

I'd like you to show me where science has disproved God or religion in general!!! What rock was I under when this finding most likely hit the front page of every newspaper in the world and every prime time news cast??? Proof please !!!!

God doesn't ignore logic, nor does logic ignore God. God can be known/realized just beyond logic and reason. By the way, you can use Logic to come to a conclusion that logic itself is very limited and there are or must be faculties or states beyond limited logic. This is where God operates, where paradoxes make complete sense.

You're using George Carlin, a comedian, as one of your sources??? Am I supposed to take you serious in this thread????

If humans control their own destiny, then why can't we control the random things that happen to us, things we didn't plan for. We can't control death, life, and so many other things.

If you think that the only thing that exists is what we can see and what science knows, then you are defiantely limited in your views. If that's so then there is nothing left for science to discover. God may be invisible to you, but others plainly see his omnipresence in all things and only 1 side is right. The evidence is stacked against you in your post, I most definately believe.

I still Love you though, wish nothing but positive things in your life, and will keep you in my prayers

reply to post by dominicus1


I should have mentioned this in my previous post, but I guess I'll mention it here since you provided me proof to back up what I should have said, and that is, it's amazing how people, such as myself, are able to respect others' right to freedom of religion, and can simply co-exist with religious people and religions of the world, but people who believe in a god get pissed off and erupt with outbursts, such as the one you just posted, towards people who do not believe what they believe.

We respect your right to freedom of religion. If we didn't, you'd have a problem with that.

But then you turn around and can't even respect our right to not believe in a god, and you blast us for it?

I never said George Carlin was a source. I was going to say what I quoted, but figured it was better to quote him, since he said it first. How is that using him as a source of information more than a source of a quote?

How about you just take a step back and calm down, and realize that people in this world don't have to believe in a god? As I said in my previous post, if you believe it, that's fine with me. So perhaps you should share the same mutual respect.

Do I have proof there is no god? No. Do you have proof there is a god? No, you don't, despite what you want to think. You don't have some video or picture of him. You don't have any documents of him. You don't have any scientific data proving his existence. You have a point of view on life in general, and you believe that it is the work of a creator.

What it comes down to with both of us is our point of views on life. Life is the ultimate creation. It's the reason we can even sit here and debate this. So logically, the answer to the God or no God question lies in figuring out everything about life.

Until that happens, this debate will rage on endlessly. As I said, it's all about point of view. There is no proof for either side, so it comes down to whether you see life as being created by someone, or life as coming from natural evolution.

I'm 75% sure Jesus was a real person.

I mean, he was probably based on SOMEONE...although I don't think he was really called Jesus.

And also the fact that he is always depicted as a white guy irritated me he would have looked Arab.

Kind of sad how no one knows what Jesus looks like...

Originally posted by Dr Love
The only thing that matters is that another human being became a better person, and not how they went about doing it.

Props to the OP!

Peace

finding god equals becoming a better person?
is that by default or something?

reply to post by Boondock78


haha, i'll leave them to answer that...

[edit on 3-10-2007 by AncientVoid]

No it doesn't make them a better person by default. The bible says even demons know who Jesus is. They are not "better", or made clean for just knowing. Just as a man who knows Jesus is the son of God, yet refuses to accept his sacrifice, will not enter the gates of heaven. The individual is made better on a personal level, an uplifting, hopefully resulting in a change of behavior. A change in thought, after all does not always result in altered behavior.

What happens alot of the time when someone finds God, is a leveling of the personal, a flattening of the self, accompanied with an expansive feeling of love. a love that wants to come out of the individual through good works, a cheerful spirit etc. This state of bliss and wholeness is very tricky to keep hold of. The world weighs us down, "reality" is not reality but an imposed reality, the reality of man and what he needs, or what he thinks he needs. God is great. I know my personal faith has steered my course for the better many times.

If one infallibly lives by the ten commandments, their lives will be better. You can see this for yourself, yes?

Originally posted by depth om
God is great.

Far from the truth...

reply to post by AncientVoid


Far from the topic.

reply to post by dominicus

This Love I have is greater than the one for my mother, self, sister, and greater than being in Love with a woman.

Thats all nice and stuff.. But dont you think that love could be expressed threw actions? You know actions speak louder than words!!

What have you done besides telling people you love this more than anything in life?? Have you given money to needy people? Have you donated your time to help those in need of your help?

You can love Jesus all day long, but at the end of the day what matters most is what you did with that love, not what you say..

You dont need Jesus to be a good person! You dont need Jesus to help those in need.. This is why I steer clear of people who yell at the tops of their lungs how much they love Jesus.. When clearly you are just feeding an ego..

[edit on 3-10-2007 by zysin5]

reply to post by zysin5


You're right zysin, but if it is sincere proclamation, an outpouring of a deep emotion, so expansive it will consume if not allowed to be heard, I say, thank that person for sharing. I understand what you mean about, and what many others feel is a boastful ego. I also understand the feelings that arise when you become a Christian though. Not "I'm better, more holy because I know this or I do that." But "my God.. thanks and praise...". It's deep.

ZYsin,
I don't understand why everyone who isn't a Christian (or a Christian Mystic like myself) alwasy has to bring about the whole "Ego" debate when I proclaim my Love for Jesus to the world. I've lost friends, family members, and potential girlfriends....because in my life and Soul I have this profound Love given to me by God through Jesus. People say I'm nuts, I've lost jobs because I've proclaimed this in work places, and I realize that it was all the same things that Jesus went through to when he was going around telling all of them how much he loves them. I don't care about feeding my Ego because it's my own ego that distances my true being from God, so what-ever it takes to keep it dead is my motto.

Besides that, I would describe that Spiritual Enlightenment is not complete unless you undergo Ego death ( a perfectly normal phenomenon in philosophical & spiritual communities)

As far as actions go, I cannot boast about how I've changed and what I do, in the actions department, since having this Awsome Love of Christ. Boasting is ego feeding. I do my actions in secret so it's between me and God.

[edit on 4-10-2007 by dominicus1]