A few thoughts for those who think engaging Iran militarily would be disastrous for America

Originally posted by Underbelly
I hope that once Hillary Clinton gets elected as the next President, sanity can return to America's foreign policy, and she undoes the damage that the clowns of the Bush Administration has caused.

Anyone that can bring peace and stability would be a welcome change. I have even forgotten what that feels like anyways. In a complicated world they would be no absolutes but the one that can bring us closer gets my vote.

im with the op on this one. the military is tightly streched?? why because cnn says so. with active and reserve, our military is somewhere in the area or 4-5 million strong and recuting is higher than ever. there are what roughly 150,000 in iraq .www.globalsecurity.org...

wow we are streched so thin. man i cant believe it. america is so bad??
thats why everyone is tring to get in and noone is leaveing.

reply to post by fweshcawfee


Im not going to wade through all of the replies, but lets get a grip on reality here.

I will agree with the OP that the US military even mired in Iraq can defeat the Iranian armed forces with little strain beyond that I would suggest that he put down his copy of Neocon Jr. and take a close look at what is happening in Iraq.

THe entire country is in chaos. This all with some of the population on our side. How does he propose to garrison a country with 3X the population?

Bahgdad is not under control despite all the troops. The vaunted green zone is not safe at all. Now how exactly are we supposed to controll Tehran that had 3 times the population and the majority of the population.

Its exaclty this type of John Wayne / Rambo mentality that has gotten us into this mess int he first place?

Disaster? Totaly the financial drain to garrison both countries in moeny and more inportantly Lives will basically tank our economy.

Originally posted by Bunch

The ones that think that aircraft carriers are going to be sitting ducks for Iranian torpedoes don't really have a clear idea on how the Navy employ it forces or resources, an aircraft carrier won't even come close to an area that would represent a threat, That's why they travel in fleets, and the SEALS and Navy pilots would be busy keeping the coast and waters safe.

[edit on 24-9-2007 by Bunch]

Don't tell a military strategist about clear ideas. How will your navy seals and pilots defend against unstopable russian supersonic BrahMos cruise missiles that Iran has. The missile have 290Km range and can be put on iranian fighters and ships.

Stats:
* Length 8.4 m
* Diameter 0.6 m
* Launch Weight 3000 kg (2500 kg for Air launched Variant)
* Warhead 300 kg Conventional semi-armour-piercing warhead
* Range 290 km
* Propulsion Two-stage integrated rocket/ramjet concept
* attacking surface targets as low as 10 meters in altitude.
* It can gain a speed of Mach 2.8

There is no way of stoping this one after launch. Also i can tell you more about their long range arsenal if you would like to know. The fact is that iran can sink you carriers as long as they are 2500km from iran. This fact has been told by USA military personal and it's not my own imagination, so get your facts right before you come at me.

reply to post by FaxMachine



i got to guess it wouldn't get them all but the seawiz does a good job of stopping most missle attacks. it dosent matter how fast it isnt going to get through a lead wall every time. military strategist? no disrespect but are you a military strategist from sitting in front of a pc or do you have real experince. i ask cause i see so many posters that claim this and that about the military but outside of a computer they know jack. just to let you know i was in the military.

Originally posted by DaleGribble
reply to post by FaxMachine

 

i got to guess it wouldn't get them all but the seawiz does a good job of stopping most missle attacks. it dosent matter how fast it isnt going to get through a lead wall every time. military strategist? no disrespect but are you a military strategist from sitting in front of a pc or do you have real experince. i ask cause i see so many posters that claim this and that about the military but outside of a computer they know jack. just to let you know i was in the military.

It's my hobby and i have been studying these things for 10 years, well it's not my profession, but i know more than the avarage joe.

The problem is that it does not know it is coming, it flyes 10 meters above sea level and when it opens the radar to pinpoint the target, it strikes it in a second or two. So even if they would see it, no time to act.

Originally posted by FaxMachine
Don't tell a military strategist about clear ideas. How will your navy seals and pilots defend against unstopable russian supersonic BrahMos cruise missiles that Iran has. The missile have 290Km range and can be put on iranian fighters and ships.

Stats:
* Length 8.4 m
* Diameter 0.6 m
* Launch Weight 3000 kg (2500 kg for Air launched Variant)
* Warhead 300 kg Conventional semi-armour-piercing warhead
* Range 290 km
* Propulsion Two-stage integrated rocket/ramjet concept
* attacking surface targets as low as 10 meters in altitude.
* It can gain a speed of Mach 2.8

There is no way of stoping this one after launch. Also i can tell you more about their long range arsenal if you would like to know. The fact is that iran can sink you carriers as long as they are 2500km from iran. This fact has been told by USA military personal and it's not my own imagination, so get your facts right before you come at me.

I think the nickname of these missiles is "Sting-Rays".

Yes I've read about them, and Iran has them in her arsenal. This is fact.
What is also fact is that they are supersonic, and America has nothing to defend against these, besides destroying them before they are launched. Fact...

reply to post by FaxMachine



well it dosent have to be your profession for you to be an expert. i just see so many ill informed people posting on that subject so i had to ask. i wasent in the navy but i know that the new seawiz fires 1000000rpm the old one was 3000. i dont know all the stats but as i said i dont believe it would catch them all. during wwii germans were using jets and we had the mustang. our dog fights were won largely because of the speed of the german planes.

ill ask you the same i asked faxmachine. when i was in the military i promise you i was using things that werent found on the internet or the history channel. im not down playing the might iran has but lets use some common since. there is a weapon to counter every other weapon. weather its american russian or other. Fact...

Originally posted by fweshcawfee

Stop hoping so much for the devastation of America because in actuality what you're praying for is the effective annihilation of Planet Earth. Or do you naively believe that America could dare be brought to it's knees without slamming her enemies face first in the dirt in the process.

What you don't realize is that the world is sick & tired of America's crazed agenda. You say we can blow the world over ten times.... So what when you are marked as a war hungry bully! It's not about who has the biggest gun anymore. Like Rome, America will self destruct simply because it's christian backed arrogance.

Remember, America has the most to loose. The world podium Bush and his henchmen are after..., won't be a Caucus Mountain victory - with or without the 40 ft owl and burlap loin cloth.

We can only sustain this bubble headed, GI Joe, bully mentality for so long until it implode's on our picket fences. America consumes more than it can produce.

We are in the red red red... Slaves to our delusional mantra -

"A fabricated Democracy."

China, Japan, Mexico and India have already (pimped us) won the economic war against America. Because of our greed, they are laughing to the bank as our work force heads for the soup line. These goverments have this country addicted to cheap labor. "You can have your guns Captain America just keep givng us your jobs. "

Bush once said - "Once these MAM's... Middle- American- Morons- who send their sons off to die in wars, realize this goverment doesn't given ah cow-patty about them ------------- They'll be heard calling themselve's the N -word.

Originally posted by DaleGribble
ill ask you the same i asked faxmachine. when i was in the military i promise you i was using things that werent found on the internet or the history channel. im not down playing the might iran has but lets use some common since. there is a weapon to counter every other weapon. weather its american russian or other. Fact...

I don't doubt it DG, and I don't believe America is the only one with weapons which aren't made known to the public. America is obligated to announce some of its new technology to justify the amount of money she spends on weaponry. But most of her best toys are kept secret.
The Stealth bombers were designed and built in the 80's. Roughly 20 years has past and I'm sure America has some very high-tech weaponry that has made these bombers obsolete now. You can use that way of thinking with other platforms of weaponry, as you do because you have some knowledge of this to be fact.

But I do believe the Carrier taskforces are an obsolete tool for the USA. It only takes one missile to put an aircraft carrier out of commission.
Whilst the Russian military has significantly weakened since the collapse of the Soviet empire, her missile technology is still cutting edge, arguably at the forefront, whilst the aviation and naval industries of the USA have catapulted further than any others.
Depending on how many of these supersonic missiles Iran has, I am still convinced that if they launch them it would decimate America's Carrier fleet. America may be able to shoot some down, or destroy some of the launch vehicles that carry them, but some will get through. But obviously America will have other ways of launching attacks on Iran if push came to shove.

As I say, Iran can't win a war with USA/Israel, but she will hurt Israel and American forces. The American Carrier fleet are an iconic symbol of America's power, and nothing more than a symbol. I believe this to be fact.

[edit on 25-9-2007 by Underbelly]

Originally posted by fweshcawfee

Stop hoping so much for the devastation of America because in actuality what you're praying for is the effective annihilation of Planet Earth. Or do you naively believe that America could dare be brought to it's knees without slamming her enemies face first in the dirt in the process.

I'm glad I live in Australia, the purest of democracies. We won't have to worry about Mutually Assured Destruction here.

Any remaining survivors from the American mainland are welcome to come here if this apocalyptic event ever eventuates.

reply to post by FaxMachine


Whoa buddy hold your horses, you are replying to the wrong guy, the poster that came at you was not me, in fact I was asking for people to come with info on how they think that Iran might defeat the U.S. in war, so if anything thanks for your post.

Great info, you do have to acknowledge that any military campaign its going to start by the air an I'd any of this equipment is visible is going to be destroyed, if it has any kind of radar or guidance system that emits a signal is going to be picked up by AWACS and in 5 to 10 minutes could be destroyed, it all going to depend how the first couple of day evolved, I don't think you are going to see a massive Navy fleet of the coast of Iran, all this drills in the Persian Gulf might as well could be a diversion or a bluff, I seriously doubt that they would place all those lives and asset in peril without first making sure that the area is safe, this were the SEALS and Navy pilots come into play, besides to fire those cruise missiles do they really need to be that close to the coast? Don't you think the AF would bear the brunt in the initial days?

Again thanks for your post.

Originally posted by Bunch
Whoa buddy hold your horses, you are replying to the wrong guy, the poster that came at you was not me, in fact I was asking for people to come with info on how they think that Iran might defeat the U.S. in war, so if anything thanks for your post.

I don't think anyone will be foolish enough to think that Iran could win a war against America.
But they will cause problems and hurt America. Iran will make the invasion of Iraq look like a walk in the park that it was.

Guerilla warfare will be of great importance after throwing human waves at its enemy. Stinger missiles will be used to counter the Carrier taskforces and Iran will throw all its missiles at Tel Aviv and surrounding cities if a full blown invasion were ever to happen on Iran.
If Iran can speed up her missile technology to be able to put a rocket into orbit then she could explode radiactive tipped missiles high up in satellite orbit which would render all American satellites useless. China has shown she has capabilities to shoot satellites out of site, but all you need is some radiation to put them out of action.

But I don't think a full-blown invasion will ever happen. Just some precision bombings on "targets of interest". I could be wrong, but that's how I think it'll go down.

This is all so foolish. Attack Iran? Are you insane? We can't occupy them so what do we do just destroy the military targets? Honestly al queda is bogus and most terror is homegrown but if we didn't have real terrorism before we will now.

Then come the domestic retaliatory terror attacks then sympathetics from other cultural grps will commit a fews attacks here and there. This will illustrate once again that the terrorists can be any race.

NWO will no longer have to fake terror anymore because Iran will be officially at war with US and the whole country will hate us with all of their hearts after having their futures destroyed.

We will have a police state because of the terror and all of your "cool stuff" will be gone including the internet because of advanced cyber attacks by Iran 3.0.

All this war talk is so foolish and makes me really believe that the beauty pageant girl that didn't know where America is on a map does represent a general dumbing down to the point where you guys that argue that war with Iran is a good idea, are literally retarded.

Originally posted by Underbelly

But I don't think a full-blown invasion will ever happen. Just some precision bombings on "targets of interest". I could be wrong, but that's how I think it'll go down.

I do agree that USA would win in Iran if they really would push it. The cost would be just too great to justify it, even for a mad man. I also agree that they will try to do some bombing and see what the Iran's response is. If Iran is very hostile and throw all it has on USA allies and USA, we never know what happens. Time will tell.....

reply to post by FaxMachine


you bring up a good point. history has shown us that size and tech dosent always win a war. but if it came down to it the us has my support. and i will be more than happy to serve my country one more time.

i forgot to add. the mighty french said they would be in on this one as well.

[edit on 15amu22007 by DaleGribble]

Originally posted by fweshcawfee
Quite frankly, the U.S. if backed by other nations (which it would be) could annihilate Iran and it's buddies just as easily as they obliterated Iraq's entire former government. If you disagree, you're naive and hardly perceptive of actual reality.

Just revisiting this quote, because I think that you've been proved wrong.

Just wondered what you thought about it now?

Iran is in a deep relationship with more than a few South American leaders. Hizbollah trains with Venezuelan military. I would guarantee with our borders wide open, the number one threat with an attack on Iran, would be REAL sleeper cells right here inside the US. Not to mention false flag attacks to boost even more support for complete Marshall Law in the country.

In reality, an Attack on Iran would be a Globalist wet-dream.

But with "conspiracys" aside, the slightest move towards Iran would cripple us beyong repair. Globally, economically, and militaraly.

I have a strange feeling an attempted overthrow of Chavez would happen first, just a feeling.

[edit on 25-9-2007 by tobiascore]

Here is a link for the sunburn anti-ship missiles which Iran has in her arsenal. I thought they were called stingrays but alas I was incorrect. They are the deadly sunburn;

www.rense.com...


I wouldn't want to be on any naval ship in the Persian Gulf if Iran lets these things fly...