Chemtrail Photo, WOW!!!!

Originally posted by the animator
ide just like to add that my dad was an air engineer & pointed out to me that aircraft are only allowed to land with a certain amount of fuel on board. so high altitude contrails normaly behind the engines. & jets are only glorified crop sprayers.
also watch some big aircraft as they approach the airport, on things like 747 kinda size they all dump fuel from there wing tips wich i think tends to look more chemtrail rather than contrail.
every airplane dumping fuel all over the world is a lot dumped polution.

Some of what you are saying is correct and some is, I think, a misinterpretation of what your father told you.
It’s true that aircraft often take off in excess of their landing weight. This weight is calculated so that the aircraft will burn off an amount of fuel during its trip and is light enough to land at its destination. They will only dump fuel if they need to make an emergency landing and have not burned enough fuel to be under their landing weight. The contrails seen behind an aircraft are not from the fuel, but rather from condensation created when the cold air interacts with the hot engine. Fuel dumps are pretty rare events, I think in all the years I worked on aircraft there was maybe one time this occurred.

I wrote an article about this on my webpage. Chemtrails are real. But they are not what you think they are. Regular jet contrails disapate. Chemtrails stay long enough to show up as a criss-crossing grid pattern.

After much research, I concluded that when people are seeing and calling chemtrails are actually cloud seeding. Someone (Defcon5?) even brought up cloud seeding but said that it can't be seen with the naked eye. That is wrong. Cloud seeding is easy to see.

It's late and I'm tired, but I have pictures in my article and you can see more at North American Weather Consultants Inc. homepage. I just went there and they don't seem to have a picture of the grid pattern up anymore, but they do have other interesting photos.

There are SO many easier and cheaper ways to poison people, vacinate them, or make them stupid. What do you think television is for?

[edit on 20-9-2007 by AmethystSD]

One thing I love about the OP's sat picture is how every single trail just decided to end in a nice neat line over northern AL, GA, and mid-SC. Even the ones that are going N, NW, NE, etc.

So we have two options here ... one, it was a massive coordinated effort to begin/stop emitting all trails along that seemlingly pointless parallel ...

- OR -

two ... there were certain atmospheric conditions (maybe a ridge of high pressure, and/or higher atmospheric temperatures) that caused those CONTRAILS to remain only in that specific area (note it even extends out to the ocean).

I mean seriously I do believe that the gov't is capable of doing things of this nature, and probably has in the past ... but come on. As I've stated before on here I live near Midway airport in the southern suburbs of Chicago and my parents grew up/have lived south of Midway and O'Hare at different points in our lives. Contrails have ALWAYS existed as far back as we have decent outdoor pics of our families. Yes, even ones that have lasted for minutes and hours.

Again the logical/safe/easiest way to disperse chemicals would be fast, low-flying aircraft anyways. It's pictures like this that just make me shake my head from photographic evidence and turn to those who are at least doing actual scientific research into air quality and chemical compositions of atmospheric samples. Too bad these people are few and far between.

Originally posted by Lunchman
And for the guy who said, look at how they converge on the major cities.. Lmao, thats good.. Thankfully Americans are stupid and don't know their cities locations are so posting such idea's isn't slammed like it should be.. but its obvious they don't head to a "hub" city...

Lets me reply to your little insult…
Obviously you don’t know where the major cities are, or what a “Hubb” is in the aviation sense.
Let me educate you some.

This is a map of the airports in Georgia:


This is the original photo, which I modified to show the direction of most of the trails in relationship to the airport location:


Now a few facts about Atlanta International Airport:

It has been the world's busiest airport by passenger traffic as well as landings and take-offs.[2][3] Additionally, Delta Air Lines operates the world's largest airline hub from the airport. AirTran Airways also operates their largest hub from the airport. Hartsfield held its ranking as the world's busiest airport in 2006, both in terms of passengers and number of flights, by accommodating 84.8 million passengers and 976,447 flights respectively.[4] Many of these flights are domestic flights from within the United States where Atlanta serves as a major transfer point for flights to and from smaller cities throughout the Southern United States. Fifty-seven percent of Hartsfield-Jackson's airport passengers do not stay in Atlanta but go on connection flights elsewhere.[citation needed] As an international gateway to the United States, Hartsfield-Jackson ranks seventh; JFK International in New York City is first.[5]

Perhaps you need to know what an Airport Hub is, so I’ll include that definition as well for you:

Hub
· Airline hub, an airport that serves as the base of operations for an airline

So care to retract your little insult?

Originally posted by defcon5

All combustion engines have exhaust, but that is not what you are seeing as a trail in the sky. The formations that folks call chemtrails are actually frozen water vapor from the hot engine working in a cold environment. It’s the same thing as what comes out of the back of your car on a cold morning; the difference being in the persistence of that cloud. In the atmosphere, depending on the temperature and humidity, those vapor trails can persist and become normal cloud cover.

The reason why I can confidently say that these are normal contrails in the photo above, is simply due to location in proximity to airports. Meaning these are contrails coming from normal commercial airliners, such as those I have personally worked on. You will hear Chemtrail believer’s state that they know what a normal contrail looks like, and that they cannot persist, but this has been proven untrue. Photos of persistent contrails dating back to WWII are easy to show as evidence that persistent contrails have existed as long as aircraft have. The reason for the increase in contrails over the last two decades is simply due to increased aircraft numbers, and newer high-by-pass turbo fan engines pulling in more air and running at higher temperatures.

"Chemtrails occur at altitudes and in environmental conditions where normal contrails cannot and do not occur. According to NOAA meteorologist Thomas Schlatter, quoted in the article, "for even short-lived condensation trails to form, we're talking temperatures lower than about minus 76 degrees Fahrenheit, and humidity at jet altitudes of 70 per cent or more." (He's correct about the temperature, but humidity at altitude is rarely that high. In any case, humidity is only relevant to how long a contrail persists--not to its initial formation. The initial contrail is formed by the jet exhaust of the aircraft which provides the source of moisture--a byproduct of fuel combustion. It is this water vapor that freezes and turns into contrails.) Chemtrails usually occur at altitudes between 25,000 and 30,000 feet, which is usually too low and warm to support contrails."

www.newciv.org... Read this Article!!!

Please read it because you are very good at "sounding" like you know what your talking about. And those pictures of low altitude crop dusting are NOTHING even close to chemtrails. Oranges and Apples. Just how I see it man.



[edit on 20-9-2007 by sir_chan]

Originally posted by sir_chan
According to NOAA meteorologist Thomas Schlatter, quoted in the article

WeatherWise Article - Thomas Schlatter - NOAA meteorologist:
Before visiting Web sites concerning "chemtrails," I assumed that "chemtrails" was a new name given to contrails by environmentally conscious people who are concerned that subsonic jet traffic injects water vapor, carbon dioxide, other gases, and soot into the atmosphere at high altitudes. These substances can alter the chemistry and radiative properties of the atmosphere, the high-altitude cloudiness, and perhaps even the regional climate. I was very wrong. In visiting these sites, I learned that chemtrails is the name given to sky tracks left by the deliberate release, either by spraying or mixing with jet fuel, of substances not found in "ordinary" contrails. The releases are allegedly occurring in many countries without the knowledge or consent of the populace, and they are being blamed for respiratory and other health problems.

I consider these claims unfounded. There is no evidence in the meteorological literature or photographs on these web pages to support them. I will summarize what is known about contrails (last treated in the August 1981 issue of Weatherwise), discuss some of the hallmarks that are supposed to distinguish chemtrails from contrails, and list some of the potential hazards of jet exhaust at flight altitudes.

Natural cirrus clouds form high in the troposphere, usually at temperatures below -40 degrees F, when there are sufficient ice nuclei (tiny particles that ice crystals can grow on) in the air and when the water vapor content is high enough. Upward motion in the high troposphere causes the cooling that brings air to saturation and forms the ice crystals in natural cirrus clouds. Contrails (an abbreviation of condensation trails) form when jet aircraft inject water vapor into the high troposphere or lower stratosphere, thereby bringing the air to saturation.

During this year, aircraft will burn over 200 million tons of fuel. The major byproducts of combustion are carbon dioxide (CO2) and water vapor (H2O). There are other substances in the engine exhaust, notably, carbon monoxide, oxides of nitrogen, sulphur dioxide, methane, nonmethane hydrocarbons, carbon soot, and other microscopic particles.

For every pound of fuel burned, about 1.26 pounds of water vapor is created but less than 0.0004 ounces of soot because aviation fuel burns cleanly. Even so, the soot provides plenty of ice nuclei, and the water vapor can usually saturate a large volume of air at the low temperatures where commercial jets fly. The result is the immediate formation of a contrail, consisting of tiny ice crystals in large concentrations. At temperatures lower than about -76 degrees F, contrails almost always form, regardless of relative humidity. The higher the ambient temperature, the less likely that contrails will form. At temperatures above -40 degrees F, contrails are not expected. The persistence of contrails depends upon temperature, relative humidity, and the vigor of mixing between the exhaust plume and the ambient air. At low temperatures, with high humidity, and with stable temperature stratification (which inhibits vertical mixing of the air), contrails persist for many hours.

Below are some misconceptions about contrails taken from Web sites. After each, I describe why they are misguided.

Lots more from Mr Schlatter at that site. He is not very supportive of the chemtrail idea, and obviously what you posted about him was either a misquote or taken out of context.

Originally posted by sir_chanPlease read it because you are very good at "sounding" like you know what your talking about.

I am glad to hear that the years I spent working in the commercial aviation field have paid off for something then, even if its just to help eliminate an internet hoax.

Originally posted by sir_chan
And those pictures of low altitude crop dusting are NOTHING even close to chemtrails. Oranges and Apples. Just how I see it man.

That is what real chemical spraying looks like. You're right though, compared to contrails it is apples and oranges, which is why I showed them.

well i do kinda agree with what your saying, however intentional spraying from a plane for purposes other than crop dusting as suspicious.. why would a plane fly very high and be dumping chemicals?

cloud did not dissipate like a regular contrail.. im not claiming it was a secret military job from RAAF Edinburgh (which is ~20km away) but it certainly made me think of chemtrails due to it lingering for a very long time and not dissipating.

I do beleive that governments have covertly sprayed chemicals, bacteria, and so on, on civilians. However, the idea that there are 'Chemtrails' is ludacris.

First, let's start with the Satalite photo.


That photo has been on ATS in at minimum, 5 other threads, discussed many times, and debunked many times. I will state it again, that picture is of the United states with a very high proportion of CONtrails. We can tell they're CONtrails, because CONtrails routinely last long periods of time. Why? Because Contrails are formed by hot objects slicing through the atmosphere forming water (explained ABOVE in Defcons post). The temperature at above 30 000 feet which airliners generally cruise at, is usually minus 40 degrees celcuis. Anyone want to guess what happens to the water crystals?

They will sometimes freeze into ice crystals, and obviously, ice crystals don't magically disapear (Or Antactica wouldn't exist and snow would evaporate).

Second, let's look at the aircraft. Obviously any Aviation enthusiast can quickly tell that that aircraft is a Gulfstream one. Let's google the words, "Gulfstream 1 test".

www.pnl.gov...

Now, let us google many variations of "PNL Gulfstream 1". Uhuh:

picturethis.pnl.gov...

www.asp.bnl.gov...

picturethis.pnl.gov...

Yep, it's a RESEARCH aircraft, not a Spraying aircraft, and it does not fly at 100 times the speed of sound creating all the persistant contrails seen all over the world. If anyone wants to claim that it's a huge fleet of aircraft doing all the 'spraying', then they have still yet to prove that there is a mystical fleet of phantom aircraft flying all over the Earth and they have yet to prove why Ice magically disappears when the temperature remains sub zero. The burden of proof is on the Chemmies.

of course large aircraft do dump fuel before landing to lighten their load after a long flight (eg 747 and such) which could also be described as a chem trail but like you say, its a normal procedure for safe landings.

Aircraft only dump fuel if they have a problem, such as an engine failure, smoke in the cabin, sick passengers.... and so on. Aircraft rarely dump fuel on a regular basis.

that reminds me actually, the other day i seen a plane fly very high from the adelaide hills, over adelaide and beyond the beach (east to west) and it left a trail starting at the hills and continuing all the way over the beach where it stopped abruptly.

Weather patterns are not uniform.

hemtrails are real. But they are not what you think they are. Regular jet contrails disapate. Chemtrails stay long enough to show up as a criss-crossing grid pattern.

So Ice evaporates at minus 60 degrees Celcius?

Chemtrails stay long enough to show up as a criss-crossing grid pattern.

Zaphod58 posted a picture a while back.



Given that it is normal for water molecules to freeze to ice, forming persistant contrails, how can they NOT criss cross? May I add that you may have many, many planes cross the exact same point as aircraft navigate by entering in waypoints into the flight computer. These waypoints are usually navigation aids, which, are nearly always near big cities, not to mention planes usually fly from city to city.

For the sake of arguement, how fast do you think these 'fibrous' materials fall? 5 feet a minute, 10 feet a minute? How long till it touches the ground? Well it doesn't matter how fast they fall, it would be so slow, that infact prevailing winds would blow the material hundreds of miles before they reached the ground, thus completely evading population centres which you guys say they are flying over.

People also often say that planes often fly the same path over and over and over and over, laying down clouds. Well, planes also navigate by jetways. These are paths which planes fly and are usually connected by Navaids. You can CLEARLY see them, particularly over the Ocean, in the picture Zaph took and posted ages ago and I posted above.

What happens is, one aircraft lays down a persistant contrail, it gets blown across the sky, another aircraft flies the same jetway, laying down a contrail which again gets blown across the sky. After this pattern continues, eventually there will appear to be, aircraft that are 'cloud seeding'. What they are actully doing is just flying there normal route with wind creating the illusion.

Military aircraft do not usually follow these jetways and navaids so there is no were near the numbers of Military aircraft as there is Commercial jets. This completely rules out the possibility of military aviation lying down your Chemtrails as they don't even fly those routes unless flying into a commercial destination. The only way that would be possible is if there were a HUGE fleet of UAV's flying accross the world, which is proposturous.

If it actually were Commercial Chemtrails, then let's think about this.

1. The engineers in Boeing would have to be in it, after all, who designs the planes? And why would consumers order extra weight in there aircraft?

2. The maintenence crews would have to be in on it. They would easily discover the extra gear on an aircraft, and then, SOMEONE has to take care of the extra gear.

3. The service crews would have to be part of it, since, how are they going to load up a bunch of chemicals into a plane without being noticed?

4. The flight crews would have to be part of it, since it would be hard not to notice the trim of the aircraft shifting as the spray tanks emptied.


[edit on 20/9/07 by JimmyCarterIsSmarter]

this water vapor that freezes and turns into contrails.) Chemtrails usually occur at altitudes between 25,000 and 30,000 feet, which is usually too low and warm to support contrails."

www.newciv.org... Read this Article!!!

25000 feet and 30000 feet, eh? Any actual evidence to prove that they were flying at that altitude? For all we know that article was written by Santa. Infact, I could actually go to that website and pull stories up out of my head. How about a real website with FACTS? I suppose someone will say that right back to me. Well, let me tell you, that everything I posted here is common knowledge, easy to find, and I am not argueing against what is commonly regarded as reality.

The burden of proof is on the Chemmies.

__


The least you need to know:

• Contrails sometimes persist. They always have (look back at WW2), and they always will.
  
• Military aircraft spraying chemicals of this size is impossible as they simply do not have enough numbers to pull of an operation of this size.
  
• If it somehow was commercial aircraft, thousands apon thousands of people would be in on the secret. Do you think all the people who are maintaining planes, flying planes, and designing planes are all lying?
  
• The pictures posted by the OP have nothing to do with Chemtrails.
  
• Aircraft sometimes criss-cross the sky at certain points because that's how they navigate.
  

And finally, there is no such thing as Chemtrails as it is perfectly normal for Contrails to persist, and there is no such proof that Chemtrails exist.

Thank you.

EDIT: Mantic, why exactly did you add me to your respected foe list?

EDIT2: I may have been wrong about how Contrails form, but it doesn't matter. Ice does not magically disapear anyway.


[edit on 20/9/07 by JimmyCarterIsSmarter]

I’ve seen all this before on other forums, especially exactly the same arguments brought up by the skeptics.

Unfortunately the real problem is that these days people are so conditioned, that the simply forget about the concept of their OWN past, and get sucked in into the “fact bending” game.

This one is REALLY simple.

I for one as a kid used to day dream all the time, and really like making shapes out of clouds.

I lived in a densely populated city with LOTS of air traffic, so when there were no clouds I counted planes.

As I was growing up, I never lost the habit of looking up at the sky all the time.

This “chemtrail” phenomenon is something I began to notice only a few years ago.

Especially the crisscross, checkered patterns caught my attention in Portland Oregon. I’ve never seen such persistent and geometrical contrails.

Just use your own memories, and try to remember if you remember seeing “persistent contrails” from your past.

If that fails, just pay attention every time you watch a movie or a TV show from the 89s and back.

I guarantee that nobody will find a checkered pattern persistent contrail in ANY of the footage shot prior to 1990s.

Give it a try, and see for your selves.

Unfortunately the real problem is that these days people are so conditioned, that the simply forget about the concept of their OWN past, and get sucked in into the “fact bending” game.

The fact bending game? The only fact bending is people who repeatedly argue for something which CLEARLY has no evidence to support it. Instead of posting how there wasn't as much airtraffic in the 1950s as there is now, how about telling us why Contrails cannot persist?

Just use your own memories, and try to remember if you remember seeing “persistent contrails” from your past.

Another question, do many Chemtrails cross over Battleground, Oregon, iskander?

[edit on 20/9/07 by JimmyCarterIsSmarter]

Originally posted by AmethystSD
Regular jet contrails disapate. Chemtrails stay long enough to show up as a criss-crossing grid pattern.

Depending on atmospheric conditions, jet contrails either do not form at all, form but disperse in a few seconds or minutes, or persist for up to several hours, often spawning large expanses of cirrus cloud in the process.

After much research, I concluded that when people are seeing and calling chemtrails are actually cloud seeding.

Yes, in effect that's what it is. And it's the reason persistent contrails are subject to so much research at the moment. These 'man made' clouds contribute a net warming effect. And most folk seem to think global warming is not such a good idea ...

news.nationalgeographic.com...


And despite assertions such persistent contrails haven't been around long, they were in fact being studied over 35 years ago:

ams.allenpress.com...

When I made my last post I was actually looking for this article from 1970, which I think firmly proves persistent contrails have been around for a long time, and have been under investigation by meteorologists for a long time

ams.allenpress.com...

One aspect of weather pollution in the atmosphere is the generation of contrails. The spreading out of jet contrails into extensive cirrus sheets is a familiar sight. Often, when persistent conditions exist from 25,000 to 40,000 ft, several long contrails increase in number and gradually merge into an almost solid interlaced sheet

Where now for chemtrailers?

Originally posted by iskander
I guarantee that nobody will find a checkered pattern persistent contrail in ANY of the footage shot prior to 1990s.

Is that a money-back guarantee?
Anyway, ask and ye shall receive:

Mission: STS-009
Location: France, N/A Lat, N/A Long
Date: 1983, N/AGMT
Features: Clouds, Many Contrails

Mission: STS-027
Location: Atlantic Ocean, 56.9 Lat, -41.9 Long
Date: 12/05/1988, 160526GMT
Features: Contrails, Pack Ice

Mission: STS-027
Location: Pacific Ocean, 22.8 Lat, -155.7 Long
Date: 12/02/1988, 191315GMT
Features: Contrail, Ocean features

Mission: STS-030
Location: Canary Islands, 29.5 Lat, -13.5 Long
Date: 05/05/1989, 143002GMT
Features: Lanzarote I, Contrails

Mission: STS-030
Location: Atlantic Ocean, 29.0 Lat, -14.0 Long
Date: 05/05/1989, 143009GMT
Features: Contrails

Mission: STS-030
Location: Gulf of Mexico, N/A Lat, N/A Long
Date: 05/05/1989, N/AGMT
Features: Contrail

Mission: STS-036
Location: USA-Minnesota, 44.5 Lat, -94.9 Long
Date: 03/02/1990, 165236GMT
Features: CONTRAIL/SHADOW,AGR,MN R

there are lots more from the shuttle if you want to look around that sight linked to the pictures. I’ll Add a couple of non-shuttle old pictures as well just for completeness:




edit to add:
Oh I found this neat little toy online that lets you predict the contrail formation for a date:
Contrail Prediction Tool


[edit on 9/20/2007 by defcon5]

Here in the UK not too far from London we are getting loads of them in grid like patterns that spread like clouds, never did planes do this before it seems and almost fill the sky with them. Conspiracy? Could be.

Originally posted by lee anoma
You familiar with the concept of hiding something in plain sight?

Since we can't go up and analyze every streak in the sky and since they can be viewed as merely contrails then in that sense hiding massive evidence of a chemical trail(s) would not be that difficult at all.

No one has ever gone up and analyzed one that I know of. It's easier to look at pictures and say something is a chemtrail.

It's been explained ad nauseum that when contrails persist it's due to the fact the air temperature is such that they don't evaporate.

If you want to believe it, you're going to believe it. If you analyze the evidence and don't, you don't. It basically boils down to that. Nothing anyone will say will persuade you otherwise.

Originally posted by JimmyCarterIsSmarter
The government doesn't need to have an 'official story' on what 'Chemtrails' are, as they are ACTUALLY normal, everyday, persistant contrails Contrails caused by high flying aircraft.

If you want to prove this wrong, then you may as well start by answering the following question.

Why can't Contrails persist and fan out into clouds?

they do fan out into clouds. look at the sky. i can't do all your research.

s

Originally posted by sharplee

they do fan out into clouds. look at the sky. i can't do all your research.

In all fairness he did a lot of research to present his side of the argument. The supporters of chemtrails need to do their part, too.

Outside source~www.lightwatcher.com...

I wish the simplistic "ice crystal contrail" explanation did explain the world wide phenomenea that we are seeing in the skies above. But this is not the case.

At higher altitudes, plane and jet exhaust does indeed create ice crystals, and these contrails are rather substantial. An old WWII pilot whom I am acquainted with told me that these ice contrails had to be "avoided like the plague," or a pilot could flip the plane and crash after hitting one.

The ice crystal theory simply does not explain the full range of evidence that we witness on a daily basis.
The chemtrail grids that we see being generated, often occur below the altitude where ice contrails can form, and below the required temperatures. In addition the "chemtrails" begin as contrails, and then spread out into much larger cloud formations, ofter covering the skies from horizon to horizon.

Another factor disproving the standard disinformation is that chemtrail planes do not stick to standard flight paths, but stray into restricted airspace, often crisscrossing numerous times until the their spreading contrail grids have joined into a homogenous, opaque blankets of cloud cover. This scenario is repeated every day over much of the United States. The unmarked white tankers responsible for this phenomena are not recorded on conventional radar tracking systems (something I have personally verified).

The "ice crystal contrail" explanation although based upon hard science, is the standard disinformation story designed to shift our perceptions away from chemtrails, and reinforce the plausible deniability of these covert operations. Regardless of pressing necessity that motivated our leaders into implimenting these "mitigations", they are illegal by all global environmental and regulatory standards.

Multi-million dollar research programs into these radical technologies were funded by Congress, conducted by the National Academy of Sciences, and resulted in a monumental study: Policy Implications of Greenhouse Warming: Mitigation, Adaptation, and the Science Base - Panel on Policy Implications of Greenhouse Warming, sponsored by the National Academy of Sciences, National Academy of Engineering, and the Institute of Medicine. The results of this study were presented in 1992 and published in book form in 2000 by the National Academy Press ( read it online at: books.nap.edu... ) . This 994 page study is the textbook on greenhouse gasses, global warming, policy decisions and mitigation's (corrective measures). Included within is the hard science many chemtrails researchers have been searching for: the scientists, agencies, institutions and corporations involved, cost factors, chemical formula, mathematical modeling, delivery methods, policies, recruiting of foreign governments, acquisition of materials, and the manufacturing of aerosol compounds.

Another landmark paper was done by Jay Michaelson Geoengineering: A climate Change Manhattan Project ( www.metatronics.net... ). In this excellent paper, Michaelson outlines geoengineering options for mitigating the effects of global warming. He points out the feasibility and the need for secrecy of these programs. Many believe that this paper became the template for government policies surrounding chemtrail programs.

Another large study of geoengineering technologies is the Air Force Paper: Weather as a force multiplier - Owning the Weather by the year 2025 ( www.au.af.mil... ). This study shows that our government and military have invested enormous amounts of time and money developing the military aspects of this emerging technology.

This is the rest of the article from above post:


In addition to all of the research conducted, pilot programs carried out and doccumented, all of the patents for the formulas, and the equipment for dispersing them are availabel for study. This entire sordid tale is detailed in: The Chemtrail Smoking Gun: - Proof of global atmospheric geoengineering ( www.lightwatcher.com... )

There mountains of hard evidence that this is taking place, that it is only a matter of time before the NOAA, military, and governmental cover stories crumble to dust. I hope that this information facts help you to seperate the truth from the propoganda about this mysterious phenomenon.
~~~

Thank you Defcon5 for that link. The response gives very credible evidence to support the Chemtrail theory.

[edit on 20-9-2007 by sir_chan]

reply to post by Beachcoma


The 'supporters' ( as if i am cheering them on or have stock options or something) of chemtrails do sometimes 'do their part' and i am still waiting for comments in response to the information i posted earlier.

Here are a some of those with some additional information as to why i think Defcon and his merry gang of perpetual deniers of EVERYTHING that is not expressly admitted to in establishment textbooks. It's like the S&L scandal never happened ( biggest financial crime in history) or Laos were never bombed in secret with more tonnage than GERMANY in the WWII . It's clear that conspiracies just never happen and that power never abuses.

One unique type of cloud is manmade. Contrails occur when exhaust from jet engines condenses. A narrow line of moisture makes up the contrail. Winds eventually dissipate it; in some instances conditions permit the contrail to survive for many minutes (their straight lines do distort). Contrails are believed to affect weather by raising both short and long-term temperatures (one estimate is for about a third of a degree per decade). Here is a MODIS image taken over the southeast U.S. on January 29, 2004 showing a large number of contrails (at times more than 2000 planes are over the North American continent at any one time):

rst.gsfc.nasa.gov...

The condensation trails (contrails) that form in the wake of high-flying jets are another interesting example. These cylindrical clouds have variable lifetimes and water concentrations depending on environmental conditions. In some cases the contrails can persist for many minutes. But they do slowly diffuse, much like the smoke plume emitted by an acrobatic aircraft

www.sciam.com...

So according to these sources contrails lasts 'many minutes', not hours.

Minnus said that contrails are formed in air below -39 Celsius when the air is supersaturated with ice.

Due to the physical structure of ice, the humidity level actually has to be higher, about 150 percent humidity level, than it would be for the air to be supersaturated with water.

"The exhaust (jet engine) injects a lot of water into the air," Minnus said.

"The water droplets immediately freeze and you wind up with a contrail."

Minnus said once the contrail is formed in supersaturated air, larger ice particles become nuclei and begin to grow, collecting other ice particles from the surrounding air.

www.journalnet.com...

So according to Minnus you need a RH factor of 150% and the following suggest you need a damn lot of ice as well.

Contrail formation typically occurs in the upper Troposphere between nine and twelve kilometers is height with temperatures ranging between -35ƒC and -55ƒC (Jensen e. al. 1998, Schrader 1997). Most contrails last on the order of seconds to a few minutes and only a small minority will last for hours as in the contrails photographed (Jensen et. al. 1998). A newly formed contrail will be approximately one kilometer wide and one-half a kilometer tall. As a contrail evolves, it grows greatly in the horizontal plane sometimes extending over 20 kilometers in width (Spinhirne et al. 1998). Examples of this horizontal evolution is shown in the photograph. Contrails can also be 100ís of kilometers long given the right atmospheric conditions and a plane on a steady course.

Long lasting contrails like the ones observed usually occur in parts of the sky that have preexisting patches of cirrus clouds. Since the cirrus clouds are formed of ice crystals like the contrails, cirrus clouds in a region of the sky suggests supersaturation with respect to ice and sufficient heterogeneous nuclei for ice crystals to form (Jenson et al. 1998). The GOES-8 satellite photographs, Figure 3 and Figure 4, taken at approximately at the same time as the contrails were present shows significant cirrus clouds around the Norman area providing a condition necessary for contrail persistence.

students.ou.edu...

The following supports that and it then becomes interesting where that 'small minority' fits into the picture.

Keeping these caveats in mind, the following major results have been obtained from the model simulations described in this paper.

* Long-lived contrails cannot be explained by the amount of water emitted by the aircraft. Although we have not performed a simulation in an atmosphere that is subsaturated with respect to ice, it is quite obvious (in comparing results from runs 3 and 8) that persistent contrails can only form in an atmosphere that is supersaturated with respect to ice.

here

What other evidence do we have that these abundant modern contrail formations are not natural?

Contrails are linear cloud features comprised primarily of ice crystals that are produced from the emission of water vapor and particulates from jet aircraft exhaust into ambient air. Contrails form as a result of the relatively warm aircraft exhausts mixing with the cold ambient air of the middle and upper troposphere. Since most aircraft cruise at altitudes of between 10 and 13 km (typically the 300–100-mb layer), the temperature at contrail level is typically -40°C or colder (Beckwith 1972; Gayet et al. 1996). As a result, most water droplets are thought to freeze spontaneously after contrail formation (Pilie and Jiusto 1958; Boin and Levkov 1994). Once a contrail is produced it typically will last only a short time if the ambient humidity is low, and may never be evident from ground level. Only during a unique range of favorable conditions will contrails persist and spread, both horizontally and vertically, producing a cloudlike sky.

Although temperature and moisture are clearly important controls in contrail persistence and growth, the specific ranges of necessary conditions are not well understood. This isprimarily a result of the lack of sufficient observations for contrail-forming environments and the inability to obtain reliable moisture measurements from rawinsonde data at contrail altitudes. For this reason, much of the previous research directed toward predicting contrail development has not utilized empirical temperature and moisture observations but instead relied mainly on physically based models that could not always be verified (Appleman 1953; Scorer and Davenport 1970; Hanson and Hanson 1995).

here

So they have a problem finding environments to observe contrails in? How is that possible when our skies are saturated with 'contrails'?

To persist, contrails and cirrus require RHI > 100%. Because of negative biases in the relative humidity measured at cold temperatures (Miloshevich et al. 1999), RHI infrequently exceeds 100% in
the USA radiosonde record. Furthermore, the RUC model adjusts and smoothes the RHI field so that it differs from the radiosonde measurements. While the older version of the RUC used here (discontinued 18 April 2002) yields RHI > 100% more often than the radiosondes, it is still biased
low. Thus, it is necessary to increase the RHI from radiosonde measurements for T < 0°C or set an artificially low value of RHIt.
The threshold was determined by comparing the RUC RHI fields to satellite images of contrail and cirrus distributions using the RUC level having the greatest RHI values in the 150-350 hPa range. Figure 1 shows an example of contrails forming in heavy air traffic over the northeastern USA
during 18 November 2001. The leading line of contrails in the Terra MODIS 11-12 µm brightness temperature difference image is located in east central Pennsylvania and New York (Fig. 1a). Contrails and cirrus cover most of the image west of that line. Comparison of the 225-hPa RHI contours
(Fig. 1b) with the contrails indicate that few contrails formed over areas with RHI < 80%. This value is slightly less than the 85% found by Duda et al. (2003) for a different day. Comparison of the isolated contrails from 12 September yield a different threshold as expected since the RUC alters
the humidity field from the measured values as noted earlier. Figure 2a shows a single, but broken linear contrail over Ohio and Pennsylvania at 1108 UTC, 12 September 2001. Cirrus clouds are evident
in northern and southern Ohio as well as northeastern Pennsylvania.

www-pm.larc.nasa.gov...

First the science and then the mental gymnastics to make observation fit 'science ( or i suppose the other way round) by any or all means possible.

The values of RHI at 225 hPa (~12 km) plotted in
Fig. 4 show one supersaturated area over central OH
and Indiana at 1200 UTC and no areas at 1600 UTC.
Over PA, RHI ranges from 90% at the OH border to
50% at the eastern PA border. Over Pittsburgh (PIT)
underneath contrail A at 1200 UTC, the RUC RHI is
80%, while near Aberdeen, MD (ABD), close to C at
1200 UTC, RHI = 55%. A similar value is found over
Dulles, VA (IAD) near contrail D, while RHI = 80% over
Blacksburg, VA (BLK) near the end of E. These values
are too low for sustaining contrails. To determine if
these values are due to the model assimilation process,
the rawinsonde RHI profiles are compared with the
corresponding RUC values at 1200 UTC. in Fig. 5. The
RUC increased RHI at most levels over BLK and PIT
while smoothing or decreasing RHI over ABD and IAD.
No contrails were observed for RHI < 55%.

[edit on 20-9-2007 by StellarX]