Palestinian rocket blast wounds 50 Israeli soldiers

Originally posted by Subcomandante
Neither is not allowing a government voted in by the people to reign. The military action was started by Fatah aswell, Hamas were retaliating. And there was more rounding up of opposition members in the West Bank than in Gaza. Leading members of Fatah were even given amnesty to leave Gaza.

Difference is, Fatah want peace and are willing to work for peace with Israel, which the Palestinian people want. The reason why the population no longer supports Hamas.

Why do you deny them peace by supporting Hamas?

Originally posted by infinite

Again, lets not twist this all back to Israel.

To say the Hamas takeover in Gaza is to do with Israel is very childish and a bias view on the problem.

Watch the news and don't turn a blind eye..

www.haaretz.com...
hrw.org...

Again, try not to bias on this subject.

Excuse me, but what is childish about explaining what happened? I'm not accusing Israel of wanting there to be civil war in Palestine, there are threads on here with news sources included which talk of arms shipments bought for Abbas' Fatah party by Israel and delivered from Egypt. To ignore such things is childish.

One of your links is about political prisoners held by Hamas, which fair enough, may well have happened. I don't see how that effects the Palestinian people of Gaza. It is also from an pro-Israeli website, thereby I imagine there to be some bias, hence no description of either prisoners held by Israel or by Fatah in the West Bank.

The second link is not just about Hamas, but about Fatah too, and was taken from during the civil war, and was before Hamas took control of Gaza.

Originally posted by infinite

Originally posted by Subcomandante
Neither is not allowing a government voted in by the people to reign. The military action was started by Fatah aswell, Hamas were retaliating. And there was more rounding up of opposition members in the West Bank than in Gaza. Leading members of Fatah were even given amnesty to leave Gaza.

Difference is, Fatah want peace and are willing to work for peace with Israel, which the Palestinian people want. The reason why the population no longer supports Hamas.

Why do you deny them peace by supporting Hamas?

How do you know the population no longer supports Hamas? Why would they vote them in if such was the case? Fatah have been in power since the days of Arafat, but they have degraded themselves since. How can a group which takes arms from Israel to wage war in Palestine be for peace? They were for their own gain. If it weren't for Hamas taking control, there would still be Palestinians killing Palestinians in Gaza.

All this people that condone this type of attack are the same people that cry foul whe Israeli forces destroys houses that are used to launch and make rockets or to manufacture bombs.

This terrorist would use a house, hide behind children, women and the elderly, in the hopes that Israel would not attack, and when Israel does then they bring the TV cameras to record the dead children, this people is just sick.

All this proxy attacks paid for by Syria and Iran is costing the Palestinian people, the regular folk that just want to make a living a chance to have their family growing to have a decent life, Israel pulls out from Gaza and what the terrorist do? Start using it as a launching pad for attacks.

If you condone this attack on a sovereign nation, then don't cry foul when this one respond to being attack, at least Israel does it to protect their citizens. The terrorist are just pawns for the countries that are scared themselves of attacking Israel and face the consequences of their actions.

The hamas government doesnt respect even its own citizens rights(see the violence at a peaceful demonstration recently)much less the rights of an sovereign state(israel).There can be no peace as long as this government is in place.Id say the palistians as a whole cut their own noses off to spite their face by electing this bunch to represent them.I wonder if they will even relinquish power if voted out in the future.

Originally posted by Bunch
All this people that condone this type of attack are the same people that cry foul whe Israeli forces destroys houses that are used to launch and make rockets or to manufacture bombs.

This terrorist would use a house, hide behind children, women and the elderly, in the hopes that Israel would not attack, and when Israel does then they bring the TV cameras to record the dead children, this people is just sick.

All this proxy attacks paid for by Syria and Iran is costing the Palestinian people, the regular folk that just want to make a living a chance to have their family growing to have a decent life, Israel pulls out from Gaza and what the terrorist do? Start using it as a launching pad for attacks.

If you condone this attack on a sovereign nation, then don't cry foul when this one respond to being attack, at least Israel does it to protect their citizens. The terrorist are just pawns for the countries that are scared themselves of attacking Israel and face the consequences of their actions.

Do you really think that every house that Israel has destroyed was used to make or launch ordinance? If such was the case, it would be raining missiles in Israel.

I realise that the setting up Kuyusha missile launchers in residential areas is out of line, but at the same time, where should they put the launchers? Gaza is not exactly a roaming free land. It is one of the most overcrowded areas on earth.

How does accepting an attack on soldiers as being of war equal the condoning of the murder of civilians?

I am not supporting the murder of any person, civilian or soldier, but to condemn Hamas for attacking military positions, yet supporting the same action by Israel is hypocritical. The fact that many civilians are killed by Israel is another matter entirely. The murder of children should not be condoned regardless of the aggressor or the reasoning.

Originally posted by Subcomandante
How do you know the population no longer supports Hamas?

Because I watch Al Jazeera and the local people in Gaza are worried about Hamas and don't want them. The countless investigations by the media, from mainstream to underground have highlighted the disillusionment towards Hamas.

If it weren't for Hamas taking control, there would still be Palestinians killing Palestinians in Gaza.

Now its Hamas killing Palestinians in Gaza.

50 injured that is a big attack but atleast its on troops not civilians my heart dont go out for those troops.

reply to post by Subcomandante



NO, I don't think that every house hit was the staging area for attacks. However, I do think that the staging houses were the intended targets.

I know targets are a difficult concept to understand for Hamas. It's much harder to conduct a coordinated attack on a single area then it is to drop a rocket down a tube in the general vicinity of the "enemy." In golf, we call this "grip it and rip it."

Originally posted by bodrul
these are legitimit targets
not cuvilians and after the Israeli forces did enough damage in the west bank.
by firing missiles and so on. if these were cuvilians it would be a diffrent story.

Sure, and now Hamas and it's infrastructure are just as legitimate targets. Will you condemn Israel from responding militarily to those who carried out and supported the attacks? Hamas has said they are the government in Gaza, they are ultimately responsible for actions there. Once again, Palestinians will pay the price for their own inept leadership.

Hamas miscalculated big time on this one.

Originally posted by infinite


Now its Hamas killing Palestinians in Gaza.

...and Hamas is made up of Palestinians? It may come as a surprise, but Hamas are not an splinter group sent to Palestine to cause a ruckus.

I am struggle to understand the thinking in this thread.

You are against civilians being targeted, but not soldiers? They are citizens as well and most importantly, human.

Am I the only person here who feels violence against anyone is wrong? on any level?

As I said, no one is legitimate target.

Originally posted by jhanks28cold
reply to post by Subcomandante

 

NO, I don't think that every house hit was the staging area for attacks. However, I do think that the staging houses were the intended targets.

I know targets are a difficult concept to understand for Hamas. It's much harder to conduct a coordinated attack on a single area then it is to drop a rocket down a tube in the general vicinity of the "enemy." In golf, we call this "grip it and rip it."

This attack would appear to show that Hamas do know where to launch their missiles. The death of various Palestinian civilians in Israeli missile attacks would show otherwise.

Originally posted by infinite
I am struggle to understand the thinking in this thread.

You are against civilians being targeted, but not soldiers? They are citizens as well and most importantly, human.

Am I the only person here who feels violence against anyone is wrong? on any level?

As I said, no one is legitimate target.

I'm not sure if that question was aimed at me, but I don't condone the targeting of anybody, soldier or civilian. I was merely pointing out that in this war scenario, Hamas rocketing Israeli soldiers is the same as Israel bombing Hamas soldiers. The only difference is that more Palestinian civilians get killed in the Israeli bombings than Israeli civilians do in the Hamas rocketing. And thats wrong.

Originally posted by Subcomandante
I'm not sure if that question was aimed at me

It wasn't

Other posters in this thread.

Originally posted by Subcomandante

This attack would appear to show that Hamas do know where to launch their missiles. The death of various Palestinian civilians in Israeli missile attacks would show otherwise.

Even bears get lucky and crap on squirrels sometimes.

No go back and look at all the times random places were hit. Quite a different story isn't it?

reply to post by Subcomandante


Please don't give me a lecture on how Israel kill civilians, when the Palestinian terrorist are the fathers of using their tactics to kill civilians, how many Israelis civilians, women, children, babies have died because of the terrorist, so please save the moral lecture for those who don't watch news.

Originally posted by jhanks28cold

Originally posted by Subcomandante

This attack would appear to show that Hamas do know where to launch their missiles. The death of various Palestinian civilians in Israeli missile attacks would show otherwise.

Even bears get lucky and crap on squirrels sometimes.

No go back and look at all the times random places were hit. Quite a different story isn't it?

And when was the last time that Israeli civilians were killed by a Hamas rocket attack? It was before the last Israeli incursion into Gaza. Hamas are far more particular in their bombings. I guess it might be different if they had America giving them heavy bombers and artillery and unlimited ammunition.

reply to post by infinite


well because they choose to join the idf which means you have to kill others there for you are not a civilian and they are combatians.
they chose to join knowing they will have to kill people and maybe be shot back at.

Originally posted by Bunch
reply to post by Subcomandante

 

Please don't give me a lecture on how Israel kill civilians, when the Palestinian terrorist are the fathers of using their tactics to kill civilians, how many Israelis civilians, women, children, babies have died because of the terrorist, so please save the moral lecture for those who don't watch news.

Father of who's tactics? The tactics of murder from either side is different.

Yes, Hamas used to use terrorist actions against Israel, as did Fatah, the group supported by Israel. There haven't been suicide bombers used for years however. And what makes the tactic of blowing oneself up to kill civilians any different from dropping a 500lb bomb on them?
Also, if you want to go into numbers, the number of Palestinians killed by Israeli forces is disgusting, and remains uncondemned for the most part:
Since Israel withdrew from the Gaza strip on August 20th 2005, there have been 1088 Palestinians killed and 5077 wounded. Thats not accounting the tens of thousands more that have been killed since 1947. And as far as militia tactics go, when Israel was birthed, it was through the use of their own militia groups like LEHI and Irgun.