5 Reasons why America is Going to Hell in a Handbasket.

Originally posted by SimiusDei
"There are black supremacists, and there are white supremacists. Let's see you bash the latter in the same breath."
Oooh oohhh I can do this one!!

I suppose i can't stop you.

Black supremacists and white supremacists actively show us the ignorance that flows through certain sects of our society.

The difference being the fact that white supremacy have been encouraged and protected by state sponsored violence black supremacy resulted from those who refused to bow to their oppressors; clearly a very big difference.

However, while white supremacy is generally looked upon as a stigma upon the American culture, black supremacy finds its way to television screens on a near daily basis and without much, if any, vocal disagreement from the masses.

Which i suppose can't be the reason why the white media still stereotypes African Americans in the same old ways as before? Assuming your claim to be true why would the media react when they do not give the American people what they want to start with? Since when do American WANT to see all blacks as criminals or drug users?

While both of these "philosophies" are equally ignorant, black supremacy is openly embraced everytime Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton or Louis Farrakhan are allowed to spew their bile to a world wide audience via the medium of television or radio.

Bile? Uh? Do you think the few unsavoury things they have managed to utter on the air compares to the perpetual racially motivated bias of the American press in general? It's fascinating how a otherwise generally well informed person such as yourself can be so stuck in racial traps.

Recent examples would be their ridiculous and ignorant defense of Michael Vick and the case of the "hooker that would cry rape".

But his a 'celebrity' so clearly his 'image' must be protected in a country where protecting celebrity trumps racial prejudice on the vast majority of days. This is ESPECIALLY true if celebrity is a African American who must be made to look immune to a law so that whites such as yourself can feel even more 'threatened' by the 10% black majority who are going to subvert the entire country and destroy it. Fascinating...

Though people attempt to differentiate between white and black supremacists, they are in fact the same.

How can they be the same when one enjoys state protecting and they other are persecuted and frequently assassinated? How do you believe such nonsense?

They are both groups that actively try to promote a non issue involving their particular races' and "discrimination" that is supposedly hefted upon their race for the purpose of self gain.

You think the suppression and oppression of African Americans is a non issue? I suppose you would have been more than than welcome in Hitlers Germany. I understand that white Americans are looking for someone to blame for the destruction of their country but why have you so ignorantly fallen into the trap of believing that it's immigrants and 'blacks' that are somehow doing it? Why don't you go find and fight the REAL culprits?

People like David Duke and Jesse Jackson have been, for years, working to keep the tensions between the white and black race high for their own personal benefit.

And for this someone like Jackson is very well rewarded by his very white paymaster.

They play on natural differences between the races to make sure the belief of "hate" is maintained so they can continue to keep themselves in the spotlight and keep the money flowing into their own pockets.

What natural differences? So now we are back to genetics?

Some of the talk in this thread alone is evidence enough that their true "plan" is working quite effectively as certain members seem to have such a difficult time leaving this issue off of a thread where it does not belong.

Seems that way as you stated plenty of other good reason why Americans are going to hell in a hand basket.

Racial tension as a whole is only an issue if it's allowed to be an issue.

Or if you are Arican Americans and must live with it on a daily basis.

I suggest that instead of perpetuating it every chance you get, you focus your efforts on Jesse Jackson, David Duke and their cronies and attempting to get these criminals out of the limelight.

They get far too much time in the limelight and that wont change why they are being paid for by people outside of those communities they are supposedly serving.

And again, please don't hijack this thread in order to make it a "race" issue.

It clearly is a race issue for you so why should i not point out the many fallacies and lies your perpetuating?

There is a thread around here somewhere called "Are you a racist?" that would be just fine for this argument if you feel the need to keep it going.
Thanks,
Jasn

So go there and let the civilized among us continue with some of the valid points you raised?

Stellar

Originally posted by windwaker
I was actually understating the situation in my last post. The situation is a lot more drastic than you think.

When I went overseas to India a little over a year ago, I realized what I was as an American. I'm an anomaly. My existence is not the norm in this world.

And that is the case for some sectors of each countries but obviously best captured by European living standards.

I realized this after only four days of not having the basics that I always took for granted. I almost broke down there you know? I ran home with my tail between my legs.

As any self respecting person would had they some place to run to.

But while visiting India, I also got to see the new cities being built in Southern India. I saw the skeletons of new skyscrapers being built as far as the eye could see, all being built at the same time. These are the new New Yorks and Chicagos.

And funded too a large extend by western money that was initially stolen from those very same countries; this has never been a country vs country issue but one of classes and control over society.

Did you know that there is a city the size of Manhattan being built in China every year?

No and i think you mean there is construction to the same scale as Manhattan taking place per year?

Just do the math. It is impossible for us to maintain our way of living with other countries living the same way we do. Six billion people can't all have a house, two kids and a car.

And this is the crux of the propaganda we are fed while they hide all the technologies that could allow for 6 billion people living in utter opulence till the end of this planet in four billion odd years. They WANT us to believe that there is not enough to go around and that we thus must endlessly fight each other for scraps.

We've been selfish for a long time with the world's resources, but the rest of the world wont tolerate this for long.

Americans just want to live well and they NEVER asked their government to appropriate the wealth of other countries to make it so. It is also true that the American governments/regimes never had to do go anywhere to make it's own people wealthy and that they did so for their own self serving class reasons.

And there are really smart and talented people in China, India and Russia who are smarter than many of the people here in America, and they want what we have.

And if we all stand together and force our science establishments to disclose what they know we could all live very well indeed without doing the planet much damage.

If they are smart and work hard they deserve it too! A balance has to happen eventually, and in order for that to happen, many people here will have to lose what they have. That's just the way it is in a universe of scarcity.

But the scarcity paradigm have never accurately reflected the world we live in and those in control have always had to work hard to create the conditions that would make it seem so.

Things will be different if we find someone to discover Warp Technology and develop the first warp drive and related invention, The Replicator. Then we will have unlimited power and unlimited resources.

That happened back in 1885 ( yes, i mean 18) and the first vacuum energy extraction technologies were being employed by Tesla and kin before the turn of that century.

Until then, it is very possible that America will not "live long and prosper."

As far as i can tell that dream ended somewhere in 1977 and it's been downhill ever since.

So I'm just hedging my bets, because I've worked very hard and I do very well. I'm not about to lose my own prosperity.

And while you do not have to give up anything it's almost assured that you are contributing the problem by believing in the scarcity paradigm.

Stellar

Originally posted by redseal
America has been on top for the last 200 years!! sorry folks, as much as you envy us, the crumble.. it aint going to happen.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but America has only been "whoo, we're number 1" since around the end of the Second World War. Prior to that, especially pre-1914, you were a non-entity in international politics.

Originally posted by slackerwire
Why do some people simply refuse to acknowledge the fact that blacks commit more crimes and use social services per capita than any other race?

Because they just do not.

Is it a case of the truth being too painful, or is it just plain ignorance?

Because it just ain't true?

Originally posted by slackerwire
Until those ridiculous laws are changed, the fact is they still broke the law and belong in prison.

They do not belong in prison but while those laws are used to punish African Americans for the very ills that are inflicted on them they will stay in place.

If they value education, why are they 2nd on the list in terms of high school dropouts (right behind hispanics)

Because what they are getting is 'indoctrination', not education. The fact that you can't get a job with or without a high school education makes the point moot; why waste many more years for nothing at all? Do their economic conditions allow them to waste that many more years doing absolutely nothing constructive while their single mothers, because the fathers were locked up with extraordinary long sentences for non violent crimes, must somehow find the money to pay?

and why are they on the top of the list in terms of welfare dollars?

They are not?

Ok.

The President's budget for 2006 totals $2.6 trillion. This budget request is broken down by the following expenditures:
$359.5 billion (13.79%) - Unemployment and welfare

That is just one year.

Total Receipts

Estimated receipts for fiscal year 2006 are $2.2 trillion. This expected income is broken down by the following sources:

* $966.9 billion (44.4%) - Individual income tax
* $818.8 billion (37.6%) - Social Security and other payroll taxes
* $220.3 billion (10.1%) - Corporate income tax
* $75.6 billion (3.5%) - Excise taxes
* $26.1 billion (1.2%) - Estate and gift taxes
* $28.3 billion (1.3%) - Customs duties
* $41.6 billion (1.9%) - Other

Total Spending

The President's budget for 2006 totals $2.6 trillion. This budget request is broken down by the following expenditures:

* $544.8 billion (20.90%) - Social Security
* $512.1 billion (18.00%) - Defense
* $359.5 billion (13.79%) - Unemployment and welfare
* $345.7 billion (13.26%) - Medicare
* $268.4 billion (10.30%) - Medicaid and other health related
* $211.1 billion (8.10%) - Interest on debt
* $88.7 billion (3.40%) - Education and training

en.wikipedia.org...

A quick count ( bolded) gives me 1861 billion dollars in receipts from directly taxation ( just regular people ) of which they get 1605 billion dollars back in federal spending. Just on the face of it Americans get around 250 billion USD less back than they 'invested' in themselves and if you start to look into how the federal governments spends that unemployment/welfare/medicare/education money you might figure out just how little actually gets back to the people and how much of it gets syphoned off by corporate America along the way.

The US federal government is absolutely miserly in comparison with welfare spending in other western countries so calling the US a welfare state, or even a uninterested state( where people just get their money back) is just not accurate.

Blacks commit a very disproportionate amount of violent crime, why shouldn't they be incarcerated?

Because the incarceration system takes them out of society for so long that they become even more incapable of fitting in hence the perpetual and growing cost to the US taxpayer who then needs to keep spending that 30 -40 000 USD to keep every one of those 2.2 million people behind bars. Incidentally the US imprisons the more people than any other country and at a rate that is four -five times higher than China; a actual police state.

news.bbc.co.uk...

Just like in any other society on Earth poverty and oppression creates violence, but most of that is just due to the militarised US culture, despite what your liberal/Conservative media tells you.

No need to use google, I already have the chart from the Dept of Health and Human services.

And this is a temporary program where each eligible family can only get this help for a maximum of 3-4 years given only a few years in high shool and little or no work experience. One can but wonder why Hispanics and White people constitute nearly two thirds of recipients when this is a 'black problem'? Why , if white people are so different, do this program serve only 9% more African Americans than Caucasians?

en.wikipedia.org...

www.hhsc.state.tx.us...

Maybe things are worse in the lonestar state but maybe not...

www2.state.ga.us...

A. Welfare “Leavers”
As an initial matter, whites appear to be leaving the welfare rolls more quickly than
blacks and Latinos. Ten years ago, whites represented the largest proportion of welfare cases,accounting for almost 4 million recipients.26 Now, however, blacks make up the largest proportion of welfare cases. 27 According to the Department of Health and Human Services, in 1999, whites made up a little more than 30% of the total welfare caseload, blacks made up 38%, Hispanics 25%, Asians 4%, and Native Americans just under 2%.28 The percentage of minority children on welfare also increased. By 1999, 40% of the national welfare caseload of children was black, 26 %was Hispanic, and 25% was white.29

www.lawyerscommittee.org...

Approximately 5,000,000 families receive AFDC. Nearly one of every seven American children is in a family receiving such aid. More than 20% of all those born in the late 1960s have spent at least one year on welfare; over 70% of African-Americans born during the same period have done so. Moreover, the situation is growing worse. More than 30% of all children born in 1980 will spend a year on welfare, and in excess of 80% of African-Americans.

Sixty-four percent of welfare recipients are white; 31%, African-American; 14%, Hispanic; and five percent are classified as "other." Ninety-two percent of families on welfare have no father present. The average family size is 2.9 persons, down from four in 1969.

findarticles.com...

There are 14 million welfare recipients in America. And despite what most people think, the majority are not Black.

The truth is, about 39 percent of parents on welfare are White, 37 percent Black, 18 percent Hispanic and 6 percent Asian, Native American or another race.

"My bet is that most people, if forced to name a typical welfare recipient, would talk about a Black woman...whose mother received AFDC (Aid to Families For Dependent Children) before her and whose children will receive AFDC," says Univ. of Michigan economist Greg Duncan in USA Today. Duncan told the paper that the stereotype "just does not do justice to reality.

findarticles.com...

However, Norman Matloff has attacked the few elderly Asians who take advantage of SSI (which isn't normally called "welfare", but the term has stuck) when their grown children are relatively affluent. The flip side is that immigrant workers are funding the retirement of disproportionately white elderly with the social security system. To get a fair return, I believe that as long as their sponsors pay into social security, their elderly parents should be able to collect as long as they naturalize as citizens. link

Lester Thurow, and many other economists say that Social Security is effectively welfare since funds paid in are paid out plus interest in only 4 years for most retirees today.

If you count social security along with public assistance, Asians and Hispanics have the lowest amount of "welfare" payments per household, only $1,500 compared to $2,500 for nonhispanic white households.

Social Security and Public Assistance
Race Payments Index ss per
Total / household pop Index
NHWhite $2,486 1.00 NHWhite $890 1.00
White $2,452 -1.00 White $857 -1.04
total $2,353 -1.04 total $757 -1.18
Black $2,037 -1.20 Black $435 -2.04
AmInd $1,899 -1.29 AmInd $351 -2.54
Hisp $1,550 -1.58 Hisp $243 -3.66
AsianPI $1,477 -1.66 AsianPI $224 -3.97

www.arthurhu.com...

Not sure if i agree with this last set of numbers but there it is. Americans of whatever race creed or colour are being ripped off with some just more exposed to such actions than others. This is not a question of race, gender or other orientation but one of state programs that are aimed at creating poverty and general dependence on the system.

And what about Afghanistan?

What about it? The people of Afghanistan NEVER attacked the US and by these type of stupid standards the whole worlds people should take to bombing American cities for every 'independent' action of a CIA/FBI/NSA/CFR ( add some of the other few dozen) that leads to the death of someone somewhere in the world.

Stellar

[edit on 16-9-2007 by StellarX]

[edit on 16-9-2007 by StellarX]

EXCUSE ME...PEOPLE...WHEN DID THIS THREAD TURN INTO (YET ANOTHER) DISCUSSION ABOUT THE "OPPRESSED" BLACKS AND HOW GOOD THE WHITE MAN GET'S IT?

Would it be possible to return to the scheduled programming? This thread started off well, but the last few pages have been off topic posting about how bad black people have it, mainly from someone who lives in South Africa, for crying out loud.....




[edit on 16/9/07 by stumason]

Originally posted by StellarX


Because they just do not.

Why are you intentionally being an ignorant troll? The facts prove you wrong, yet you refuse to acknowledge that.

Because it just ain't true?

Yes it is.

Originally posted by slackerwire

They do not belong in prison but while those laws are used to punish African Americans for the very ills that are inflicted on them they will stay in place.

So blacks are the only ones charged under those laws?

They are not?

You are rapidly making yourself insignificant. Try paying attention to FACTS.

The US federal government is absolutely miserly in comparison with welfare spending in other western countries so calling the US a welfare state, or even a uninterested state( where people just get their money back) is just not accurate.

What part of WELFARE is UNCONSTITUTIONAL are you incapable of understanding?

Because the incarceration system takes them out of society for so long that they become even more incapable of fitting in hence the perpetual and growing cost to the US taxpayer who then needs to keep spending that 30 -40 000 USD to keep every one of those 2.2 million people behind bars. Incidentally the US imprisons the more people than any other country and at a rate that is four -five times higher than China; a actual police state.

Ah, so we should blame the system and hold blacks blameless right?

And this is a temporary program where each eligible family can only get this help for a maximum of 3-4 years given only a few years in high shool and little or no work experience. One can but wonder why Hispanics and White people constitute nearly two thirds of recipients when this is a 'black problem'? Why , if white people are so different, do this program serve only 9% more African Americans than Caucasians?

3-4 years????? What kind of loser cannot make their lives better in 3 or 4 years? Looking at the chart I posted, you will notice that blacks and hispanics receive much more TANF than they should according to their percentage of the population. Blacks compose anywhere from 15%-18% of the population, yet they make up the majority (39%) of TANF recipients.

Why are you being so dense?

Evidently the truth is a little too painful for you to bear.

There are people who will start a debate simply for debating sake.
There are also people who will start one because they have an 'agenda'.

I think the time has come to ask StellarX, whether given the choice between living in America or South Africa, which would she prefer?

Being a resident of the UK, given the choice between say living in London or New York, I would take California any day!

Originally posted by TommyCrown
There are people who will start a debate simply for debating sake.
There are also people who will start one because they have an 'agenda'.

Clearly this current diversion on the original topic is all about perpetuating racial stereotypes and hatred in general. One could not even defend the notion that black people were lazy and somehow worthy of this level of hatred a hundred years ago but here we are fighting the same old ignorance and bias a hundred years later!

I think the time has come to ask StellarX, whether given the choice between living in America or South Africa, which would she prefer?

I think i would have been fine rather being born in the USA than in South-Africa. You must not have checked my record on this forum as my participation in the weapons forum must be some serve as some kind of clue that i am in fact male!

Being a resident of the UK, given the choice between say living in London or New York, I would take California any day!

In terms of economics and general wages your probably better off in the UK but i suppose some will argue California has better weather...

Originally posted by stumason
EXCUSE ME...PEOPLE...WHEN DID THIS THREAD TURN INTO (YET ANOTHER) DISCUSSION ABOUT THE "OPPRESSED" BLACKS AND HOW GOOD THE WHITE MAN GET'S IT?

The moment some racist folks started telling me that black people are getting exactly what they deserve. This apparently means that African Americans deserved to be treated like third world citizens despite being born in the home of the free.

Would it be possible to return to the scheduled programming?

The moment we evict the racist ignorants i am ALL for getting back to something more constructive.

This thread started off well, but the last few pages have been off topic posting about how bad black people have it, mainly from someone who lives in South Africa, for crying out loud.....

Right and they have it very bad around here as well and that is part of the point i am trying to drive home...

Now unless you have something to contribute to the original topic or this current one i suggest you stop posting on unrelated issues.

Stellar

[edit on 16-9-2007 by StellarX]

reply to post by StellarX

Hi,
Sorry about the gender assumption, funnily enough I've been reading you going at it hammer and tong with 'WestCoast' about weapons and the invasion of Iran for the last 30 minutes or so before returning here.

Exactly how many theses are you working on for all those doctorates?

reply to post by TommyCrown


Strictly unpaid 'work' here but given that capitalism rarely reward anything that needs doing i can't be doing too far off the track. I am pretty sure you don't get doctorates based on the accuracy of your work as that would long ago have resulted in far better world for all of us!

Funnily i think your not only getting my gender wrong but i will leave that for someone else to 'discover'.

Stellar

reply to post by StellarX

WestCoast indeed - I think I'm probably dreaming of California again.
It's been happening a lot lately, I wonder what it means?

Now, Scholar, I definitely noticed you mentioned dear old Serbia in another thread.
So, once again you're back in my good books.

Originally posted by slackerwire
Why are you intentionally being an ignorant troll? The facts prove you wrong, yet you refuse to acknowledge that.

I just illustrated that they facts do not in fact support your racist views.

Yes it is.

No it ain't and i can assure you i can keep that up longer than you can.

Originally posted by slackerwire
So blacks are the only ones charged under those laws?

Not they are not but they are many many times more likely to end up in jail having committed the same crime coming from the same background with the same police records. The American ( and most other) are simply biased towards mistreating minorities who lacks political and economic power.

You are rapidly making yourself insignificant. Try paying attention to FACTS.

Doing my best but that wont matter if you just completely ignore them.

What part of WELFARE is UNCONSTITUTIONAL are you incapable of understanding?

I never said it was unconstitutional.

Ah, so we should blame the system and hold blacks blameless right?

No but we should consider treating them the same before the law as we treat those with more economic ( OJ got away after all so the law does work along class lines as well) and political clout.

3-4 years?????

Only when they barely have a education and have little or no work experience and meet all the highly restrictive 'conditions'.

What kind of loser cannot make their lives better in 3 or 4 years?

Well i don't think they are losers but clearly employing your logic there are plenty of white losers as well. How can you make your life better when you have little education and training and simply can't find jobs that do not exist in the first place?

To begin with, the prison system makes a direct contribution to regulating the lower segments of the labour market - and does so in infinitely more coercive fashion than any social charge or administrative rule. Its effect here is artificially to compress unemployment levels both by forcibly abstracting millions of males from the job-seeking population, and also by boosting employment in the prison goods and service sector. It is, for example, estimated that during the 1990s US prisons brought down US unemployment figures by two percentage points. According to Bruce Western and Katherine Beckett, taking into account the differences in levels of imprisonment in the two continents, and contrary to the idea commonly accepted and actively disseminated by the advocates of neoliberalism, for 18 of the past 20 years US unemployment rates have been higher than those of the European Union (12).

However, Western and Beckett show that the jump in the prison population is a two-edged weapon: while in the short term it makes the employment picture look rosier by cutting labour supply, in the longer term it will inevitably worsen the employment situation by making millions of people more or less unemployable. Although imprisonment has cut US unemployment levels, the prison system will have constantly to be abandoned to keep those levels down.

The fact that Blacks are massively and increasingly over-represented at all levels of the prison system highlights its second function in this new form of government by poverty: it is to replace the ghetto as a means of containing population groups considered deviant and dangerous, not to mention superfluous from both an economic and a political point of view - Mexican and Asian immigrants are far more docile. Poor Blacks hardly ever bother to vote and the country’s electoral centre of gravity has in any event shifted towards the White suburbs. To that extent, prison is merely the ultimate manifestation of a policy of exclusion of which the ghetto has been a means and an end since it first appeared in history.

mondediplo.com...

According to official numbers by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, as of January 1999, only 5,950,000 million Americans were unemployed. But the truth is that while the current official national unemployment rate in the United States stands at a low 4.3 percent, there are far more people than that who are either out of work, only able to find part-time work, employed at below poverty level wages or employed below their skill level. Official jobless figures are only the tip of the iceberg. In contrast to many European countries, the United States, in compiling jobless data, excluded persons without employment who had stopped looking for work. People who want to work but are discouraged about job opportunities and so have given up an active job search are not counted here as unemployed. Instead, they are considered not to be in the labor force. Part-time workers who wanted full-time jobs are nevertheless counted as fully employed. People working even as little as one day a week are categorized as "employed." About two million Americans, for example, are "on-call" workers who are called to work as needed -- sometimes for one day, sometimes for longer. Substitute teachers meet this definition. Such a methodology for determining the extent of unemployment in America is symptomatic, at the very least, of the lack of official concern regarding the problem. Many might say, with good reason, that it reflects an intent to mislead.

Many independent economists accept that the true level of unemployment in the United States of America is at least double the official figure. Even former Commissioner of Labor Statistics, Janet Norwood, after declining reappointment in 1991, began speaking out on the inadequacies of government data. Not only did she acknowledge that the unemployment numbers were misleading, but she also said, "I am very worried, extraordinarily concerned, about the polarization I see going on in our country."

The discrepancy originates in the methodology of calculating unemployment rates: only those signed up at the unemployment office are being officially counted as unemployed. The six million officially unemployed persons consist solely of those who are registered at state unemployment centers as actively seeking for work. Many millions more have concluded that pursuing nonexistent jobs is futile and have dropped out of statistics altogether. Millions of discouraged people aren't being counted and are simply disappearing from official U.S. unemployment statistics. This discrepancy also reflects the fact that many unemployed people are simply hard for a government bureaucracy to track. Unless a person qualifies for unemployment benefits, they are virtually impossible to identify. Even people who once qualified for unemployment fall out of the system once their benefits end.

www.sullivan-county.com...

Jobs data don't count the down-and-out
Williams starts by discussing the headline economic data: "Real unemployment right now -- figured the way that the average person thinks of unemployment, meaning figured the way it was estimated back during the Great Depression -- is running about 12%. Real CPI right now is running at about 8%. And the real GDP probably is in contraction." (By "real," he means calculating the data the way they used to be calculated, not as inflation-adjusted.)

He then explains how the employment data are compiled, noting that 5 million chronically unemployed people are not included in the statistics. In fact, there are seven or eight different employment statistics. One called U-3 is the official one. The broadest one, U-6, currently shows unemployment as running around 8.4%. As he explains, the one that's the most historically consistent is running around 12%.

moneycentral.msn.com...

Table A-12. Alternative measures of labor underutilization

www.bls.gov...

There are few jobs and the growth is basically zero.

Looking at the chart I posted, you will notice that blacks and hispanics receive much more TANF than they should according to their percentage of the population.

Yes that is true and true for all the reasons i have outlined so far.

Blacks compose anywhere from 15%-18% of the population, yet they make up the majority (39%) of TANF recipients.

They make up around 13%...

Why are you being so dense?

Stop projecting!

Evidently the truth is a little too painful for you to bear.

Oh i LOVE truths of all kinds and i will be the first to thank you when you bring to my attention some i were not aware of.

Please respond to the detailed post earlier as i will be around for a while working on some responses to Jessica and others...

Stellar

I just noticed how horrible off topic this post was so i am sending it by u2u.

Sorry!

Stellar

[edit on 20-9-2007 by StellarX]

Originally posted by StellarX

I just illustrated that they facts do not in fact support your racist views.

I am going to try and keep this civil, but people like you make it difficult.

FACTS show blacks commit exponentially more violent crimes per capita than any other race. Want proof? FBI Uniform Crime Report.

FACTS show blacks receive exponentially more public assistance per capita than any other race. Want proof? Dept. of Health and Human Services studies like the graph I posted.

Feel free to post any evidence I have put forth of racism. Stating facts does not make one a racist. It simply makes you naive at best and willfully ignorant at worst when you ignore actual FACTS.

No it ain't and i can assure you i can keep that up longer than you can.

Very doubtful. The truth is on my side.

I never said it was unconstitutional.

That is the first correct statement you have made. I said it was Unconstitutional, which in fact it is.

No but we should consider treating them the same before the law as we treat those with more economic ( OJ got away after all so the law does work along class lines as well) and political clout.

OJ got away because he was a black defendant with a majority black jury. Want proof? Do a quick little google search for the black power salute given to OJ by one of the jurors.

Only when they barely have a education and have little or no work experience and meet all the highly restrictive 'conditions'.

So because losers made poor life choices, it falls upon we the responsible and successful people to foot the bill for their stupidity?

They make up around 13%...

Then that makes their numbers of crimes and welfare even worse. Was your statement intended to help your case? You just made it worse.








[edit on 21-9-2007 by slackerwire]

Originally posted by slackerwire
I am going to try and keep this civil, but people like you make it difficult.

Actually you HAVE to keep it civil and if you want to take this to forum where we can fling some mud i will show you that i can do far more than simply cite sources and facts.

FACTS show blacks commit exponentially more violent crimes per capita than any other race. Want proof? FBI Uniform Crime Report.

They live in a very violent society which visited disproportionate violence on them for centuries. At this rate it will take African Americans centuries to catch up and and that's what will happen if they are not treated as human beings should be.

FACTS show blacks receive exponentially more public assistance per capita than any other race. Want proof? Dept. of Health and Human Services studies like the graph I posted.

I just showed you alternative sources that makes it clear that Caucasian and Hispanics receive more aid per family than African Americans do. Why do you avoid addressing those sources and just go right back to denying reality?

Feel free to post any evidence I have put forth of racism. Stating facts does not make one a racist.

If they are true that does not make you a racist but if they are blatantly and rather obviously false then that makes you either very ignorant or quite racist. Since i don't like to presume anyone stupid i will simply presume you to be a racist.

It simply makes you naive at best and willfully ignorant at worst when you ignore actual FACTS.

I have addressed your claims with evidence to the contrary but you are so far just denying the fact that there are facts contrary to your position. When you become mature enough to admit to respond to facts presented we may reach a conclusion but until then this discussion might get very dragged out.

Very doubtful. The truth is on my side.

And as long as you refuse to look at any information that differs from you perceived facts you bound to continue along this ignorant path.

That is the first correct statement you have made. I said it was Unconstitutional, which in fact it is.

So you are now correcting yourself instead of addressing all those sourced claims i made?

OJ got away because he was a black defendant with a majority black jury. Want proof?

OJ got away because he was relatively famous and RICH. This is a CLASS struggle and as such OJ is entirely is not African American man. Do you think that African Americans are less able to determine guilt or innocence and is that why you think the stiff penalties given the majority of black defendants by their largely white jury's is justified?

Do a quick little google search for the black power salute given to OJ by one of the jurors.

And i suppose the black power salute invalidates the notion that they may have truly believed him not guilty?

So because losers made poor life choices, it falls upon we the responsible and successful people to foot the bill for their stupidity?

Well i have not seen much evidence that poor people anywhere do not in fact work long hours doing the best they can to make ends meet. In fact there are plenty of poor whites who don't seem to get by either so why do you wish to make this a issue of color and not one of economics and social politics?

Then that makes their numbers of crimes and welfare even worse.

It is startling what such a small portion of the society can do to the rest when they are so badly mistreated by racist governmental policies. Once again you are simply refusing to address the sources that points out how the majority of welfare recipients are in fact WHITE.

Was your statement intended to help your case? You just made it worse.

I do my best to stick to the facts as best i understand and can discover them and if they do not support my current view then i do my best to change my views to reflect observed reality. As such whatever i present as fact is in my opinion fact and thus something i must structure my reasoning on.

If you ever wish to understand this world i suggest you start doing the same.

Stellar

Great post... One that I wish I had thought of before because my thoughts are similar...

Originally posted by StellarX




They live in a very violent society which visited disproportionate violence on them for centuries. At this rate it will take African Americans centuries to catch up and and that's what will happen if they are not treated as human beings should be.

They made their bed, now they must lay in it.

I just showed you alternative sources that makes it clear that Caucasian and Hispanics receive more aid per family than African Americans do. Why do you avoid addressing those sources and just go right back to denying reality?

My source is the Dept. of Health and Human services. Who is yours?

If they are true that does not make you a racist but if they are blatantly and rather obviously false then that makes you either very ignorant or quite racist. Since i don't like to presume anyone stupid i will simply presume you to be a racist.

So the federal agency in charge of dispersing public aid money puts out false facts?

And as long as you refuse to look at any information that differs from you perceived facts you bound to continue along this ignorant path.

Those arent perceived facts, those are actual numbers put out by the federal agency who deals with the various forms of welfare. Why do you choose to ignore the truth?

And i suppose the black power salute invalidates the notion that they may have truly believed him not guilty?

Yes.

It is startling what such a small portion of the society can do to the rest when they are so badly mistreated by racist governmental policies. Once again you are simply refusing to address the sources that points out how the majority of welfare recipients are in fact WHITE.

The only racist governmental policies are those in which preferential treatment is given to minority groups over whites.

Per capita, black receive exponentially more welfare money than any other race.

AMERICA: was founded by Christian purists

AMERICA: Seem to think violence is natural and sex is not

there's two more for you.........

I LOVE this coutry, but people that believe that America is the land of the free.......Have NOT lived, travelled in "other" countries....

Originally posted by slackerwire
They made their bed, now they must lay in it.

And i think they did not pick the bed or the sheets and were forced to lay down...

My source is the Dept. of Health and Human services. Who is yours?

Various other departments in the US government? I made a list so why are you still unaware?

So the federal agency in charge of dispersing public aid money puts out false facts?

In part yes but mostly you are just misrepresenting their data to serve your own bias...

Those arent perceived facts, those are actual numbers put out by the federal agency who deals with the various forms of welfare. Why do you choose to ignore the truth?

Because there are other parts of the same federal agency that is contradicting the basic information by giving more detailed data? Why do you not address the claims made in the source quotes i supplied?

Yes.

I can see why you feel that way.

The only racist governmental policies are those in which preferential treatment is given to minority groups over whites.

But the majority groups in the US are in fact being treated preferentially? That's what my all the data seem to suggest and yet you just go right on claiming that it 'just ain't so' ? What will it take for you to consider the possibility that whites are not just better off because they received a better education, greater access to loans, higher wages for the same experience and positions and the fact that they they were never subjected to slavery? I mean what type of arrogant do you have to be to think that you are were you are expressly trough your own action? Do you really believe that there are no forces outside your control?

Per capita, black receive exponentially more welfare money than any other race.

A. Welfare “Leavers”
As an initial matter, whites appear to be leaving the welfare rolls more quickly than
blacks and Latinos. Ten years ago, whites represented the largest proportion of welfare cases,accounting for almost 4 million recipients.26 Now, however, blacks make up the largest proportion of welfare cases. 27 According to the Department of Health and Human Services, in 1999, whites made up a little more than 30% of the total welfare caseload, blacks made up 38%, Hispanics 25%, Asians 4%, and Native Americans just under 2%.28 The percentage of minority children on welfare also increased. By 1999, 40% of the national welfare caseload of children was black, 26 %was Hispanic, and 25% was white.29

www.lawyerscommittee.org...

Approximately 5,000,000 families receive AFDC. Nearly one of every seven American children is in a family receiving such aid. More than 20% of all those born in the late 1960s have spent at least one year on welfare; over 70% of African-Americans born during the same period have done so. Moreover, the situation is growing worse. More than 30% of all children born in 1980 will spend a year on welfare, and in excess of 80% of African-Americans.

Sixty-four percent of welfare recipients are white; 31%, African-American; 14%, Hispanic; and five percent are classified as "other." Ninety-two percent of families on welfare have no father present. The average family size is 2.9 persons, down from four in 1969.

findarticles.com...

There are 14 million welfare recipients in America. And despite what most people think, the majority are not Black.

The truth is, about 39 percent of parents on welfare are White, 37 percent Black, 18 percent Hispanic and 6 percent Asian, Native American or another race.

"My bet is that most people, if forced to name a typical welfare recipient, would talk about a Black woman...whose mother received AFDC (Aid to Families For Dependent Children) before her and whose children will receive AFDC," says Univ. of Michigan economist Greg Duncan in USA Today. Duncan told the paper that the stereotype "just does not do justice to reality.

findarticles.com...

However, Norman Matloff has attacked the few elderly Asians who take advantage of SSI (which isn't normally called "welfare", but the term has stuck) when their grown children are relatively affluent. The flip side is that immigrant workers are funding the retirement of disproportionately white elderly with the social security system. To get a fair return, I believe that as long as their sponsors pay into social security, their elderly parents should be able to collect as long as they naturalize as citizens. link

Lester Thurow, and many other economists say that Social Security is effectively welfare since funds paid in are paid out plus interest in only 4 years for most retirees today.

If you count social security along with public assistance, Asians and Hispanics have the lowest amount of "welfare" payments per household, only $1,500 compared to $2,500 for nonhispanic white households.

Social Security and Public Assistance
Race Payments Index ss per
Total / household pop Index
NHWhite $2,486 1.00 NHWhite $890 1.00
White $2,452 -1.00 White $857 -1.04
total $2,353 -1.04 total $757 -1.18
Black $2,037 -1.20 Black $435 -2.04
AmInd $1,899 -1.29 AmInd $351 -2.54
Hisp $1,550 -1.58 Hisp $243 -3.66
AsianPI $1,477 -1.66 AsianPI $224 -3.97

www.arthurhu.com...

Not as far as the data goes but you are free , and quite obviously ready, to believe exactly as you like. I can't apparently change your mind but i will go on contesting your uninformed views as long as you choose to share them with us.

Stellar

Stellar-

Have you ever considered taking Statistical Analysis 101 at your local university?

If not, you may wish to rethink that decision. You obviously need the help.