5 Reasons why America is Going to Hell in a Handbasket.

"The average age of the world's great
civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have
passed through this sequence:
from bondage to spiritual faith
from spiritual faith to great courage
from courage to liberty
from liberty to abundance
from abundance to selfishness
from selfishness to complacency
from complacency to apathy
from apathy to dependency
from dependency to bondage."

-Alexander Fraser Tytler (1742-1813)


The Roman Parallels:

Gibbons listed five basic reasons that the enormous Roman Empire was destroyed:

1. The dramatic increase of divorce undermined the institution of the family.

2. The imposition of higher taxes undermined the economic stability and vitality of the Empire. Taxes were raised to pay for deficit government spending, to pay for food for all in society and to pay for government-sponsored activities of diversion, such as circuses and sports. Interestingly, as the time of the final collapse drew closer, greater emphasis was placed on sports, to divert the attention of the public from the distressing news of massive trouble within the Empire.

3. The drive for personal pleasure had become very intense, even to the point of obsession. Gibbons noted that, at the very end, sports had become more exciting and brutal.

4. People lost their faith, both religiously and in their government. Paganism gave way to Christianity and the efficient Roman Government gave way to chaos and disintegration.

5. Hidden conspirators were working within the government to secretly destroy it. They worked quietly, invisibly and deceitfully; during the entire time they were secretly dismantling the government of the Roman Empire, they publicly proclaimed their unswerving support of it.

"There are … potentially desirable limits to the indefinite extension of political democracy … A government which lacks authority … will have little ability, short of cataclysmic crisis, to impose on its people the sacrifices which may be necessary" - 1975 Trilateral Commission Report on the Governability of Democracies

The N.Y. Times - The 'war on terror' that ruined Rome
KINTBURY, England In the autumn of 68 B.C. the world's only military superpower was dealt a profound psychological blow by a daring terrorist attack on its very heart. Rome's port at Ostia was set on fire, the consular war fleet destroyed, and two prominent senators, together with their bodyguards and staff, kidnapped.

What was to be done? Over the preceding centuries, the Constitution of ancient Rome had developed an intricate series of checks and balances intended to prevent the concentration of power in the hands of a single individual. The consulship, elected annually, was jointly held by two men. Ordinary citizens were accustomed to a remarkable degree of liberty: the cry of "Civis Romanus sum" - "I am a Roman citizen" - was a guarantee of safety throughout the world.

But such was the panic that ensued after Ostia that the people were willing to compromise these rights. The greatest soldier in Rome, the 38-year- old Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus (better known to posterity as Pompey the Great) arranged for a lieutenant of his, the tribune Aulus Gabinius, to rise in the Roman Forum and propose an astonishing new law, the Lex Gabinia.

"Pompey was to be given not only the supreme naval command but what amounted in fact to an absolute authority and uncontrolled power over everyone," the Greek historian Plutarch wrote. "There were not many places in the Roman world that were not included within these limits."

Pompey eventually received almost the entire contents of the Roman Treasury to pay for his "war on terror," which included building a fleet of 500 ships and raising an army of 120,000 infantry and 5,000 cavalry. Such an accumulation of power was unprecedented.

Once Pompey put to sea, it took less than three months to sweep the pirates from the entire Mediterranean. Even allowing for Pompey's genius as a military strategist, the suspicion arises that if the pirates could be defeated so swiftly, they could hardly have been such a grievous threat in the first place.

But it was too late to raise such questions. By the oldest trick in the political book - the whipping up of a panic, in which any dissenting voice could be dismissed as "soft" or even "traitorous" - powers had been ceded by the people that would never be returned. Pompey stayed in the Middle East for six years, establishing puppet regimes throughout the region, and turning himself into the richest man in the empire.

An intelligent, skeptical American would no doubt scoff at the thought that what has happened since 9/11 could presage the destruction of a centuries-old constitution; but then, I suppose, an intelligent, skeptical Roman in 68 B.C. might well have done the same.

It may be that the Roman republic was doomed in any case. But the disproportionate reaction to the raid on Ostia unquestionably hastened the process, weakening the restraints on military adventurism and corrupting the political process.

"Terrorism is the best political weapon for nothing drives people harder than a fear of sudden death." - Adolph Hitler

I completely agree with this post this nation is falling apart at the seams, and if you cant see it all one needs to do is take one look at the slowly fading middle class. The moral foundations on which this country have stood on for the better part of 200 yeaars is crumbling under the weight of the buy this now it will make everything so much better philosphy we have adopted. Just look at what is about to happen in just a very few short years, forclosures and bankruptcies will rise they already are starting to. Most of this due to many of our financial instituions using subprime lending methods to further fleece the american people, some of which are already asking for the government to bail them out.

Honestly i dont think that populace of this nation has any fight left in it, for the most part we have become fat and lazy. Not to maention that should a really big war develop we dont have anywhere near the manufacturing infrastructure in place to mobilize for it.

TV is little more than a cultural sewer with the exception of a few bright spots occasionally. Our children are unruly and have little to no respect for anything, as well as being undereducated. Removing corporal punishment was a bad idea at best.

Actually getting more than two parties in our political system at this point is gonna be damn near impossible, the two current ones simply will not allow it to happen. Even worse is that congress has the abilities to give itself raises but has made it so they no longer have to actually vote for them pretty much taking away the populace's ability to judge accountablity, which to be honest is wrong these people are supposed to be working for us not the other way around. We are overtaxed especially in Ohio where i live.

As far as the whole political correctness issue all i have seen it ever do is further divide us. Much in the issue of "the under God" phrase in the Pledge of Allegiance, why does it have to be removed? why can you just choose to not say that part or alter it to fit your chosen deity. Opps wait a minute that would actually include everyone and not force people to do what you want which is really the whole point for the hubub about that to begin with. Ok im done now just thought id get that off my chest.
Thank you all.

reply to post by ViolatoR


Perfect analogies.

It's too late though. We have already reached levels of dependency that leads to bondage, as you mentioned in your post.

The fall will come because of pure economics. We have about two generations of young Americans who are just not educated enough and skilled enough to compete in the new world economy. Our workforce will and is being replaced.

Corporations know no loyalty to government, and they know no nationalism. But it's the corporations that rule the planet, that have control over power and propsperity.

There's no way to make up for lack of education or lack of a skilled workforce. And more importantly, you can't persuade a spoiled generation to take the menial jobs on which a society is built. There are many people all over the world who will do the work that Americans will not do, for a whole lot less compensation than what American's would demand. So now these people, the new workers from different parts of the world, are the new backbone of our society.

America won't completely fall. It will just change and shift. It's already happening. Most people refuse to see it though, because they foolishly think their paychecks will keep getting directly deposited into their bank accounts, their credit will never run out, and their cars will have a continuous, never ending supply of gasoline. We have been so priviledged that we do not understand scarcity, and we do not appreciate luxury.

We don't even understand the value of food and water.

The GDP is dropping. Tonight the Asian stock markets took a beating because of the American Jobs Report showed that there are many people here now losing their jobs.

It has already started. I am positioning myself now so that I and my future family can survive in a world where the American Dollar is not the end-all be-all. I am going to learn a foreign language.

Originally posted by windwaker

It's too late though. We have already reached levels of dependency that leads to bondage, as you mentioned in your post.

This would be a good example of the apathy mentioned earlier. It is never too late to change your stars. If everyone in the US thought "it's too late," then it will be too late, a self-fulfilling prophecy.

reply to post by Beachcoma



I was actually understating the situation in my last post. The situation is a lot more drastic than you think.

When I went overseas to India a little over a year ago, I realized what I was as an American. I'm an anomaly. My existence is not the norm in this world. I realized this after only four days of not having the basics that I always took for granted. I almost broke down there you know? I ran home with my tail between my legs.

But while visiting India, I also got to see the new cities being built in Southern India. I saw the skeletons of new skyscrapers being built as far as the eye could see, all being built at the same time. These are the new New Yorks and Chicagos.

Did you know that there is a city the size of Manhattan being built in China every year?

Just do the math. It is impossible for us to maintain our way of living with other countries living the same way we do. Six billion people can't all have a house, two kids and a car. We've been selfish for a long time with the world's resources, but the rest of the world wont tolerate this for long.

And there are really smart and talented people in China, India and Russia who are smarter than many of the people here in America, and they want what we have. If they are smart and work hard they deserve it too! A balance has to happen eventually, and in order for that to happen, many people here will have to lose what they have. That's just the way it is in a universe of scarcity.

Things will be different if we find someone to discover Warp Technology and develop the first warp drive and related invention, The Replicator. Then we will have unlimited power and unlimited resources. Until then, it is very possible that America will not "live long and prosper."

So I'm just hedging my bets, because I've worked very hard and I do very well. I'm not about to lose my own prosperity.

reply to post by windwaker



I just realized. Massive and prosperous civilizations have all been pyramid schemes. Only the people at the top get the good life.

Maybe that's why the Egyptians built the pyramids. They were trying to tell us something. Now I understand why the EU exists and why the North American Alliance may come about.

It's a plan to bring in more poor people to do the menial work so that mainland Americans can continue to prosper. Could it be?

Is that what the NWO will be for ultimately?

OH, MY GOD!! IT IS!! THE PYRAMID OF THE ALL SEEING EYE!


[edit on 10-9-2007 by windwaker]

That's why they put the All Seeing Eye, the symbol of the Illuminati, on the back of the One Dollar Bill.

Diplomacy?

Violence?

Destruction?

Rationalization?

What is needed to change the world?

reply to post by Starlight Angel


You're right! Now I see...This goes all the way back to the Mayans and the Egyptians!

The Meaning of "Annuit Coeptis"

I find it funny that all of you fear what is to come. Realistically, history has always had ups and downs. Great nations have risen, then fallen. Great species have risen and fallen. It is a natural cycle. The only difference is that man is the first to be able to recognize the pattern, and do something to change it. Realistically though, just as many of you have referred to so many as sheep, how can a sheep recognize this pattern. They can't and therefore are doomed to repeat. When you realize this, then you also realize that there is a necessity to slaughter those sheep. No not by going around just shooting people but by the actions of those in power. It is to costly to feed a fat happy sheep, it doesn't produce like it once did, and its ignorant of the fate of the other sheep. My prediction:

The majority of the worlds population will die. Good riddence. When you consider them nothing more then hamburger, or chicken in a grocery store, they loss there humanity.

Of those that survive, a revival will come about. People will try to once again work together, build each other up. Community fellowship will rise, and man once again will find there humanity.

Way in the future prediction: --- we start it all again. as I said, nature is cycles, when something knocks that cycle out of whack, nature has to smack it back into whack. The further its bent, the harder the punch. There is always those that don't learn from there mistakes, and as such are doomed to repeat it. Whether the mistakes were made by you, or your grandpap, makes no difference.

Regards.

reply to post by camain


You're sooo right there, camain! ...I'm afraid so.

Welcom onboard!

Originally posted by StellarX
I agree with the vast majority of your post so i hope you take these as 'additions' rather than 'corrections'.

Stellar

Thanks for your additions, but I think in some ways your mis-informed or not informed. It's all good. I do have a rebuttal for you. Here goes.

Originally posted by StellarX


The original settlers to America ran away from Europe because they refused to accept that the state should be impartial when it came to religion; they were the bigots and basically modern American Christian fundamentalism is NOT modern or strange.

Actually, I don't know what history classes you took, but I was taught that the governments of Spain/France/England of the day had outlawed Puritan beliefs, and they left to come here to escape persecution's. Yes, these people's beliefs were as rigged as the ones they were escaping... however it doesn't change the fact that they were persecuted for being Quaker's or Puritans.

Originally posted by StellarX

The difference is that white people are far better armed ( intercontinental bombers aircraft and nuclear missiles to say nothing of hunting rifles and the like) and that coloured people could kill a few hundred million whites without having settled 'the score'. I am not advocating this but i always find it funny how the oppressors get so very angry when the oppressed sometimes reacts in like ways.

I'm confused what this has to do with anything. I don't see the government going out and targeting the coloured community. I personally think you should go back and look at the civil war. The north (who was trying to free the slaves) took as many causalities as the south, and did so to get the oppressed free. That was mainly a WHITE army. Segregation has ended back in the 60's-70's. The oppressed has had as many opportunities to get out of bad neighborhoods and have done so. So, would that make them oppressed anymore? I don't think so.

Originally posted by StellarX
That may be so but if you were a slave two centuries ago your racism would have been logical and not really something you had much choice about.


Fine but when are some reparations going to be made to the victims of white racism and oppression?

Women (sorry Jasn... have to make this one comment) have been treated like property far longer than there were colour slaves in the US. They shouldn't use the gender card to get out of trouble. Its wrong. A coloured man has a better chance at getting up the corp latter than a white women. I've seen it happen.

As for what slaves 200 years ago felt... they had a right, but I seriously think anyone alive and kicking these days does. A coloured person usually has as many opportunities as I do. You can get grants, loans, or scholarships for college, and they offer a lot of scholarships to anyone of coloured race. I've known many who have used these resources to better their lives and move up in the world.

Please get it out of your head that your still just as big of victims now as you were 200 years ago, or even 40 years ago. Times have changed drastically. The only one oppressing colours these days is yourself. Stop putting limitations on your self, go out and do great things. No one is holding you back!

Originally posted by fweshcawfee
StellarX, pay attention and get your quotes right pal because I didn't say what you quoted me as saying. Someone else said that.

I also sometimes regret saying certain things but i try to make sure it's not in print or recorded in any other way. If you wish to change your mind , or insist that someone stole your account details, that's fine but i checked and that's what you said.....

Stellar

Originally posted by Truman_was_a_Dalek
Actually I am a Criminology student,

IN the future please quote me properly and do not add that you are a criminology student that are being misinformed using tax payers money so you can propagandize them.

let me throw some figures at you. There has been more than 60,000 black on white murders since 1967.

So if we keep them in ghetto's in general poverty maybe they will eventually kill enough white people to even the score on slavery and the America's national security state state's sponsored terror against the third world's black people? Do you think African American people would be killing people if their living conditions were as good as white America's living conditions?

In a new study, the Justice Department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics confirms once again that almost half the people murdered in the United States each year are black, and 93 percent of black homicide victims are killed by someone of their own race. (For white homicide victims, the figure is 85 percent.) In other words, of the estimated 8,000 African-Americans murdered in 2005, more than 7,400 were cut down by other African-Americans. Though blacks account for just one-eighth of the US population, the BJS reports, they are six times more likely than whites to be victimized by homicide—and seven times more likely to commit homicide

www.amren.com...

Not the best of sources but since i can't copy from the following official source that will have to do.

ojp.usdoj.gov...

And while we are at it what reason does white people in American have to kill black people considering how effectively their government have turned minorities against each other? Do you realise that in these statistics 'Hispanic people' , and i hate even using such terms knowing that the genetic differences between so called Caucasians- insert 'race'- are in fact larger than between any of the supposed other 'races', are counted as 'white' people? What does that do to these statistics considering that the 'Hispanic' minority in the USA are now close to the same size as the African American minority?

That is more American deaths than in the Vietnam war.

They were still hanging blacks in the South not so many decades ago and police brutality is aimed mainly at the black community. According to the type of statistics you are employing black people must be trying to visit genocide on themselves as they consistently kill ten times more of their own people.

White on black murder is actually very rare,

It's not but how far does the average white person have to go to find a black person to attack them? Would you go to the average inner city to go find a 'victim'? The same type of violence that poor African Americans visits on each other in a way protects them from average drunken red necks bent on murder.

I have been hard pressed to find an actual figure, but through my research I have been able to narrow it (roughly) done to a ratio of 16:1. If you want to further slice it down, blacks commit about 44% of all violent crime in America.

Why were you hard pressed? My very, very casual check of the data leads me to believe it may be even higher but i am still not sure what you believe that proves. Why wouldn't the poorest and most oppressed part of the American society commit a very large proportion of the violent crimes? It's a EXCEEDINGLY violent culture so why would the most oppressed not respond with violence? The question really is why they do not single out their oppressors and are instead butchering their fellow oppressed in the vast majority of the instances?

If we apply Ockham's razor to this situation we can come to the conclusion that if there is a disportionate amount of African-Americans in jail, it is in align with reality.

It's on the order of 70% so it does mostly align but does show that African Americans are far more likely to get convinced and their sentences are far, far stiffer.

I would have a very hard time accepting that these numbers are a result of some smear campaign against blacks,

It's probably inaccurate in many ways but i think may still be relatively useful to expose that African Americans are by far the biggest victims of the violent conditions they are consigned to live in.

considering the government has programs in place that give them preferential treatment.

It would give me great pleasure to rip apart any data you might find or misrepresent to 'support' this ludicrous statement.

In the end, it really doesn't matter what justification is used, murder is wrong and those comitting it have no right to blame "racism" or other copious amounts of excuses for their behaviour.

If one does not want to solve problems and just build more slave labour camps ( or jails if you will) your approach will work and corporate America will smile all the way to the bank as all of America's wages are undercut by cheap prison labour exploitation practices. Murder is certainly wrong but the price white Americans pay for what their tax money is doing to their poor countrymen is not nearly as high as it could be and would be if African Americans got proper educations and were allowed to organize to protect themselves for this Americans "Apartheid".

There is no reason in the world that is justification for the taking of an innocent life.

I would LOVE to believe that people are truly innocent ( and i feel many oppressed groups are very close to deserving such a status) but we are all part of systems that are employing our labour ( and sometimes very brutally and at gunpoint) for the oppression of others in one way or another and until we unshackle ourselves from these oppressive machinery we may be ignorant and as badly exploited but certainly not 'innocent' in the classical sense.

If you believe I made this post to be anti-black, you would be dead wrong.

I know how the education system work so i understand that you may very well just be entirely ignorant of the reality and facts that you have been educated to misrepresent in this way.

I take personal offence at this person blaming "racist America" for the murders anyone, regardless of race or creed.

Take personal offense all you like and i hope you continue engaging in this discussion so i can elaborate at length. Do you really believe that all violence is equally unjustified and how do you deal with the fact that the American government have been by far the largest agents of destruction in this century? How do you sleep at night when as many as a million innocent Iraqi's may have already been killed( the absolute vast majority by direct US actions )by that very illegal invasion and occupation?

Stellar

Originally posted by StellarX


Do you think African American people would be killing people if their living conditions were as good as white America's living conditions?

Is it the fault of whites that personal responsibility is the chief problem in the black community?

police brutality is aimed mainly at the black community.

Ever happen to think that there are more violent encounters between blacks and police because blacks are more likely to assault police officers?

Why were you hard pressed? My very, very casual check of the data leads me to believe it may be even higher but i am still not sure what you believe that proves. Why wouldn't the poorest and most oppressed part of the American society commit a very large proportion of the violent crimes? It's a EXCEEDINGLY violent culture so why would the most oppressed not respond with violence? The question really is why they do not single out their oppressors and are instead butchering their fellow oppressed in the vast majority of the instances?

I grew up poor, and so did many other people I know. Somehow, we all managed not to commit violent crimes and never spent a day in prison.

How much is enough for the black community? Trillions of dollars have been spent on social programs in which they are the chief beneficiary. At what point should we just say" We tried, now you're on your own?"

It's probably inaccurate in many ways but i think may still be relatively useful to expose that African Americans are by far the biggest victims of the violent conditions they are consigned to live in.

Those violent conditions are due to other blacks.

It would give me great pleasure to rip apart any data you might find or misrepresent to 'support' this ludicrous statement.

How about government contracts that are specifically reserved for minority owned businesses? Care to try and rip that apart?

I would LOVE to believe that people are truly innocent ( and i feel many oppressed groups are very close to deserving such a status) but we are all part of systems that are employing our labour ( and sometimes very brutally and at gunpoint) for the oppression of others in one way or another and until we unshackle ourselves from these oppressive machinery we may be ignorant and as badly exploited but certainly not 'innocent' in the classical sense.

Name a single free American who is forced to work at gunpoint today.

Originally posted by StellarX
Actually, I don't know what history classes you took, but I was taught that the governments of Spain/France/England of the day had outlawed Puritan beliefs, and they left to come here to escape persecution's.

The mayflower expedition was not a 'religious' expedition and to call them 'puritanical' is a stretch by most definitions as they clearly just wanted to do their own thing in their own way; they were NOT being persecuted and the majority of the crew and passengers apparently had no serious religious inclinations at all. The 'founding' myth of the US corresponds as much with reality as the Roman or Greek founding myths do.

en.wikisource.org...

members.aol.com...

www.amazon.com...

www.cedarlane.org...

Yes, these people's beliefs were as rigged as the ones they were escaping... however it doesn't change the fact that they were persecuted for being Quaker's or Puritans.

Why do you want to create even more persecution than there clearly are in this world?

Originally posted by StellarX
I'm confused what this has to do with anything. I don't see the government going out and targeting the coloured community.

The US air force have in at least one instance fire bombed the African American section of a major us city and they have done far worse things to coloured people all over the world.

I personally think you should go back and look at the civil war. The north (who was trying to free the slaves) took as many causalities as the south, and did so to get the oppressed free.

Abraham Lincoln had slaves and i can assure you that the American civil war had nothing to do with setting anyone free; it was mostly just a pretext for integration and far more to do with removing the South as competition for the industrialized north than slavery. The reality is that you had to feed a slave and house it properly as you PAID for him/her and would lose money if they died or got sick while in the industrialized North you could exploit people till they dropped dead and just find more to exploit to death; probably another reason for 'freeing' those slaves to be worked to death in the North.

That was mainly a WHITE army.

Sure it was; they did not want to arm African Americans or treat them like equals... What does the northern capitalist care if white people died when coloured people could be forced to do the same work for much smaller wages? You have the side benefit of destroying your capitalist competitors in the South while putting downward pressure on wages; sounds like a good plan for a capitalist...

Segregation has ended back in the 60's-70's.

Officially it might have but there is truth to the maximum that you should not believe anything until it is officially denied.

The oppressed has had as many opportunities to get out of bad neighborhoods and have done so.

It is always good to see that even women with their more feminine sensibilities buys into the same government propaganda as men do; it's not what's between the legs but what's between the ears!

How would these poor exploited people afford to come live in white neighbours btw?

So, would that make them oppressed anymore? I don't think so.

Well if you do as little reading as you clearly do this is exactly the type of ignorant conclusions you would arrive at. Their basically not oppressed anymore because the government told you so?

Originally posted by StellarX
Women (sorry Jasn... have to make this one comment) have been treated like property far longer than there were colour slaves in the US.

So join their cause and demand equality and reparation? Don't burn your damn bra's ( we like that BTW and especially the 'free'er love' stuff) and work a damn minimum wage job as if that somehow sets anyone 'free'.

They shouldn't use the gender card to get out of trouble. Its wrong.

So it's wrong to oppress someone for hundreds of years but not in your opinion 'right' to try make up for that mistake for a few hundred more? Why do you think white America should not be held responsible for the result of their actions over all these centuries? Is it not your responsibility to fix it whatever the cost?

A coloured man has a better chance at getting up the corp latter than a white women. I've seen it happen.

Because men pretty much run the corporate world and their wives may get just a little bit jealous if they went drinking and playing golf with their female counterparts. Your numbers might be accurate but it will be insignificant on either side when compared to white males and i deep down i hope that has something to do with the possibility of a fact that women are far less easy to sucker and propagandize into becoming violent oppressors and exploiters of their fellow human beings. I hope you can grant me that 'illusion' for now?

As for what slaves 200 years ago felt... they had a right, but I seriously think anyone alive and kicking these days does. A coloured person usually has as many opportunities as I do.

And this type of statement just shows how desperately ignorant you must be. Do you really think that 1.4 million out of 30 odd million African Americans should end up in jail in a society where things are 'even' in any way? Why would you believe something so patently ludicrous? Do you wish to argue that African Americans are simply inherently predisposed to the type of criminality that people go to jail for in the US?

You can get grants, loans, or scholarships for college, and they offer a lot of scholarships to anyone of coloured race.

Yes but grants in what type of amount and to what type of places? What type of scholarships ( athletics?) and to what type of students and how much does that help when people live in the environments they are forced to?

I've known many who have used these resources to better their lives and move up in the world.

Sure but what's the odds given the circumstances and conditions they must overcome; how many Caucasians would overcome such conditions and why don't that many millions do so?

www.nccp.org...

observer.guardian.co.uk...

Please get it out of your head that your still just as big of victims now as you were 200 years ago, or even 40 years ago.

I am? I am not even American and i never suggested that i was some kind of victim...

Times have changed drastically.

How and where? Do you realise that in much of the world ( including the US) the poor are worse off than they were just five years ago to say nothing of forty years ago?

The only one oppressing colours these days is yourself.

Uh?

Stop putting limitations on your self, go out and do great things. No one is holding you back!

This is almost laughable but i suppose you really believe that those 'stupid blacks' are just failing because they are lesser human beings that just can't perform in the modern world. It's sad to see even more validation that racism is alive and well; it's no surprise but one hopes...

Stellar

Originally posted by slackerwire
Is it the fault of whites that personal responsibility is the chief problem in the black community?

Personal responsibility to change the government into a machine that does not oppress African Americans? Can you explain to me how Africans Americans should go about this sort of thing when their leaders gets assassinated when they try to organize for social change?

Ever happen to think that there are more violent encounters between blacks and police because blacks are more likely to assault police officers?

Sure there is but you only need to look at the records to see that African Americans are treated far worse than the norm.

I grew up poor, and so did many other people I know. Somehow, we all managed not to commit violent crimes and never spent a day in prison.

Well done and i applaud the fact that you managed to overcome circumstances and conditions to rise above it. Do you as a African American man believe that other African American men are unluckier than you are or that they simply lack your convictions or good parents? What do you think set you and you friends apart?

How much is enough for the black community? Trillions of dollars have been spent on social programs in which they are the chief beneficiary. At what point should we just say" We tried, now you're on your own?"

Less than 500 billion USD have been spent on ALL welfare programs for both black and white Americans since the end of the second world war. Trillions of dollars have NOT been spent on uplifting white people and CERTAINLY not African Americans. This is just a government lie to get you on to believe in their racist oppressive cuts in social spending for ALL American citizens.

Those violent conditions are due to other blacks.

It's due to the systems and conditions being imposed but your right in stating that the poor tend to focus their violence against each other as the rich have the benefit of far more police protection.

How about government contracts that are specifically reserved for minority owned businesses? Care to try and rip that apart?

Why would they not occasionally throw a few bones so that they might use it to pretend that they are 'doing their very best'? Do you think they are spending no money instead of looking at how it's being spent to perpetuate the problems?

Name a single free American who is forced to work at gunpoint today

Your not free when you are in jail so i suppose i will have to go with those 'free' Americans who are under Iraq and Afghan guns as we speak. Do you think most Americans CHOOSE to join the army or that they are simply lured in by all the promises and bribes they are now being given?

Stellar

Originally posted by StellarX

Personal responsibility to change the government into a machine that does not oppress African Americans? Can you explain to me how Africans Americans should go about this sort of thing when their leaders gets assassinated when they try to organize for social change?

The problems in the black community today are a result of their own doing. When 7 out of every 10 black kids born today are born into a single parent home, that should be an indicator that blacks are not taking responsibility for their actions.

Sure there is but you only need to look at the records to see that African Americans are treated far worse than the norm.

Ever think thats because they act far worse than the norm?

Well done and i applaud the fact that you managed to overcome circumstances and conditions to rise above it. Do you as a African American man believe that other African American men are unluckier than you are or that they simply lack your convictions or good parents? What do you think set you and you friends apart?

I am not black, I was a poor white kid who used common sense. Education isn't needed to know that murder, rape, and robbery is illegal.

Less than 500 billion USD have been spent on ALL welfare programs for both black and white Americans since the end of the second world war. Trillions of dollars have NOT been spent on uplifting white people and CERTAINLY not African Americans. This is just a government lie to get you on to believe in their racist oppressive cuts in social spending for ALL American citizens.

Bwahahahaha. 500 billion in 60 years? Give me a break, where the hell are you getting that info?

It's due to the systems and conditions being imposed but your right in stating that the poor tend to focus their violence against each other as the rich have the benefit of far more police protection.

Why are you so unwilling to place blame where it rightly belongs? On blacks. If the black community wants to see an improvement in their lives, perhaps less liquor stores, wig shops, and sports apparel stores in black neighborhoods would be a good idea.

Why would they not occasionally throw a few bones so that they might use it to pretend that they are 'doing their very best'? Do you think they are spending no money instead of looking at how it's being spent to perpetuate the problems?

How about the unconstitutionality of reserving public funds for one specific race?

Name a single free American who is forced to work at gunpoint today

Your not free when you are in jail so i suppose i will have to go with those 'free' Americans who are under Iraq and Afghan guns as we speak. Do you think most Americans CHOOSE to join the army or that they are simply lured in by all the promises and bribes they are now being given?

We have a VOLUNTEER military here, everyone CHOOSES to enlist. For whatever reason they choose, ultimately they make a conscious choice to SIGN THEIR NAMES on the dotted line. No one is forced into military service.

Originally posted by StellarX

Originally posted by fweshcawfee
StellarX, pay attention and get your quotes right pal because I didn't say what you quoted me as saying. Someone else said that.

I also sometimes regret saying certain things but i try to make sure it's not in print or recorded in any other way.

If you wish to change your mind , or insist that someone stole your account details, that's fine but i checked and that's what you said.....

Stellar

Listen genius, I hate to interrupt your ego trip here since you obviously are convinced that you're right about everything, but I already told you, I didn't say what you quoted me as saying. Check it.

On page 4 of this thread you directly quoted fweshcawfee (me) as saying "Yes, there are racial extremists on both sides. There are black people who hate white people and want them all dead, just like there are white people who hate black people."

Go back through my comments in this thread and find where I said that, knock yourself out trying to prove something you can not prove. Like I told you, someone else said that, not me.

And do take note of it that I haven't edited any post I've made in this thread. So basically what all this translates to is that you aren't taking time to think or pay attention before you post.

When you can't even take time to be sure you're quoting the right person, I think that's a billboard sized, bright neon, flashing representation of your credibility.

Originally posted by fweshcawfee
Listen genius, I hate to interrupt your ego trip here since you obviously are convinced that you're right about everything,

Thanks for the compliment ( far closer to the truth than most of the things you have said and not because i am a genius) but i am not convinced that i am right about anything and i hope you will argue a few points instead of what you are now.

but I already told you, I didn't say what you quoted me as saying. Check it.

On page 4 of this thread you directly quoted fweshcawfee (me) as saying "Yes, there are racial extremists on both sides. There are black people who hate white people and want them all dead, just like there are white people who hate black people."

And that was a little mistake that i never though to look for in that response.

Go back through my comments in this thread and find where I said that, knock yourself out trying to prove something you can not prove.

You have my sincere apologies as you did not in fact claim that. I should have noticed as it was closed to the truth than most of the things you said.

Like I told you, someone else said that, not me.
And do take note of it that I haven't edited any post I've made in this thread.

I don't think you would edit your views as you may very well believe them to be accurate and in some way justified...

So basically what all this translates to is that you aren't taking time to think or pay attention before you post.

It in fact means that i am human , make mistakes and that i am overwhelmed by all the ignorance i wish to address in threads such as this one. I am sorry for attributing to you a statement that were on the whole more accurate than anything i correctly attributed to you.

When you can't even take time to be sure you're quoting the right person, I think that's a billboard sized, bright neon, flashing representation of your credibility.

When you can't even take the time to research your views and arrive at something remotely resembling the truth before engaging in a public discussion i think that speaks volumes as to you arrogance , vanity and general ignorance of what makes for constructive participation in discussions of this nature.

Unless you have a objection of some substance i suggest you stop picking and read a book or something.

Stellar