An American says "Death to America"

Hey, I'm sorry for all of you who think you need to rally behind something in order to make yourself feel important. Everyone is important in their own right. We don't need a country to rally behind. We do not need patriotism. We do not need a government to protect us. We do not need politicians. We do not need to give our power away to anyone, because once we do that, we're already finished. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. America has had absolute power over its citizens for almost two centuries, and even though it's the best government to date, it's still government. It's still giving away our responsibility and our power. I say let this be a lesson to us all, however this ends. I say next time around, we refuse government, because history shows that governments with even the best of intentions just don't work. I think spirituality has a lot to do with making a lack of government work, though. I think people need to be taught about their infiniteness and their individual power, so as no one can scare them into submission in the future. If people knew the true nature of life and death and rebirth and infiniteness, they would not sacrifice their happiness/well-being for someone's false promise of security. America will fall. Chaos may ensue. I say GOOD! I will not support this lie anymore. The only way the people will prevail is if the people rule themselves at the individual level. I say this much... we all quit our jobs. I say this... nobody votes in the next election. I say this... nobody pays their taxes. I say this... nobody expends anymore effort in this failing system that is driving the Earth into it's grave. Conspiracy or not, it's all IDIOCY!!! None of this sh*t is gunna matter, no material wealth, no social status, no good looks, no seat of power will matter when the Earth is completely destroyed, and it's gunna take a little MORE than hybrid cars and recycled paper to fix the problem. We all gotta grow up and realize that if we can't live with nature, we can't live period. We are going to eradicate ourselves supporting our precious country and our precious economy and our precious belongings. There is no more room for flag waving or bible thumping or political propaghanda and petty wars for petty things.
Do I think there is a conspiracy of mass proportions going on? MOST CERTAINLY!!! It's been going on for thousands of years, when we can blindly sit back and let everything natural be destroyed and think somehow that we are above nature, that we are above the force that created life in the first place... if we are that brainwashed into believing that we are ALLOWED to destroy the whole world and all the life in it, there is DEFINITELY some inexplicably evil and un-natural force guiding us into thinking that. Whether it be a devil, an alien race, or just some insane group of evil genius men... the fact still exists that it's there. We don't choose consciously to destroy ourselves. We're driven there by something. This isn't rocket science. America is evil, and it's citizens are the most enslaved and misused of all. At least those people in Africa and the Middle East can SEE and KNOW what haunts them. We, however, will never know what's happening until it's too late, until we're all used up and the planet can no longer support us. I guess we'll go somewhere else eventually, but I dunno. I'd like to stay around for a while longer. I'd like humans to become a christ-like race of beings one day. I dunno about you, but all differences aside and all facades thrown to the side, it's so easy to see that there are more important things than some country or some flag or some luxuries. America MUST fall to the wayside in order to make way for humanity.

I dare one person to successfully argue this away.

Originally posted by indierockalien
I dare one person to successfully argue this away.

seems like the rockefellers and the rest of the CFR are doing well with it.
difference of course being, bottom down(elite pyramid) vs. bottom up(grassroots) control.

The average American would not know what freedom was even if it bit them in the ass. Do a little world travel and you will see what a lack of freedom is all about.

"America MUST fall to the wayside in order to make way for humanity"

So once we are gone what replaces us? I really do not think you know what true human nature is, but I can tell you it is not nice. The human race is not ready for anything like you talk about, sorry. Maybe in 500 years we might be, but you are like asking a 3 year old to fly an airplane.
The human race as a whole is mean and evil and that is not going to change anytime soon. The only thing America has going for it is we realize it and try to change. Sometimes we do and sometimes we don't, but my god, when you go into other countries not only do they not try to change they enjoy it.

At some point a person has to back off all the high and mighty and realize that presidents/governments come and go and what the most important thing we have is providing a good life for our family. That is the bottom line. I sit here and write this while I’m living in a 2400sq ft house with central air, hot and cold running water. I can provide everything my kids may need in very happy and secured place. This is a life that 98% of the world outside of America can only dream of. This is a small oasis in a world full of pain, sorrow, bleakness, death, and destruction and that is all that is waiting to fill the void that you would like to create.

What you are asking for is not something that needs the board wiped clean to happen. Truth of the matter is we will either destroy ourselves or our intellect will make all this evil we see around the world obsolete. The big problem is we most likely will not see it in our life time and so this small oasis that we are so lucky to have is all we got.

I dunno, I just got back from a great baseball game tonight... There sure are a hell of a lot of things I'd miss people went along with that kind of anarchy plan, which I could hardly see working.

But HEY! That's just me.

oh dude, if only people wouldn't snub their nose and laugh whenever the word "conspiracy" is mentioned. This is the most.... idiotic, brainless thing to do... it's beyond that. It's ... beyond words! It's beyond any symbolic form of reference as to how completely illogical it is to ignore such a heavy word. Most people hear "conspiracy", the only thing they can think of is x-files and aliens and monsters. They don't even know what the word MEANS. They don't even know that to conspire against someone is to plot against them without their knowledge.
I literally break down in tears when I think about just how overwhelming the problem is. I literally have trouble keeping jobs and keeping some sort of grip in society because it's just so wrong.
In a day and age when even your best friend can lie to you with a straight face, I ask how much easier would it be for a huge faceless impersonal entity to lie, cheat, and manipulate millions, and still keep a straight face? I ask why wouldn't they? I ask wouldn't it be stupid of them, knowing the types of people they are, NOT to do exactly what the conspiracy theorists are saying they are doing?

Originally posted by granoladude
I dunno, I just got back from a great baseball game tonight... There sure are a hell of a lot of things I'd miss people went along with that kind of anarchy plan, which I could hardly see working.

But HEY! That's just me.

that's only 'cause you've never been to a baseball game with three hundred players on the field at once, representing three hundred teams.

Dude, it's the same old "appreciate what you got" mentality again. I don't appreciate anything I have enough to not let it go for a better cause. You could find a way to support your family without all the bells and whistles, and sure bad things are gunna happen sometimes, but the whole "go see how it is in other countries, and you'll appreciate blah blah blah" thing is always the argument I hear... and it's a big excuse. It's a big excuse for people to be able to sit in their luxury and not feel guilty. This is all a luxury, a lulling convenience, a distraction....and in 500 years, if we keep running this course...we're gunna be gone 200 years ago! Humanity and life on Earth will be BUT a memory!
I don't believe humanity is naturally savage at all, either. If we were naturally savage and cruel, then somebody in my family would be torturing and killing others. If it's average, then then odds are most of the people I am related to are evil and cruel...and that's just NOT so.
Everything you stated there is an excuse to continue being exactly the way you are and to avoid the anxiety that comes from being forced to change your ways. I wish someone could enforce that in a non-fascist way, but you can't force people to do anything because there's too many of them. That's the whole problem. There's just too many people. My guess is a great fear that this time, we've truly lost

not to mention that forcing people to do anything is not right.

As noble as you are sir, and your heart is in the right place, I admire that.

But follow a path you speak of takes great disipline, alot of work, and most of all an understanding majority that sees reality as you do..

Wouldnt it be nice?

I love Bill hicks he says this!!

The world is like a ride at an amusement park. It goes up and down and round and round. It has thrills and chills and it's very brightly coloured and it's very loud and it's fun, for a while. Some people have been on the ride for a long time, and they begin to question: Is this real, or is this just a ride? And other people have remembered, and they come back to us, they say, "Hey - don't worry, don't be afraid, ever, because, this is just a ride...” But we always kill those good guys who try and tell us that, you ever notice that? And let the demons run amok. Jesus - murdered; Martin Luther King - murdered; Malcolm X - murdered; Gandhi - murdered; John Lennon - murdered; Reagan... wounded. But it doesn't matter because: It's just a ride. And we can change it anytime we want. It's only a choice. No effort, no work, no job, no savings and money. A choice, right now, between fear and love. The eyes of fear want you to put bigger locks on your doors, buy guns, close yourself off. The eyes of love, instead, see all of us as one. Here's what we can do to change the world, right now, to a better ride. Take all that money that we spend on weapons and defenses each year and instead spend it feeding and clothing and educating the poor of the world, which it would many times over, not one human being excluded, and we could explore space, together, both inner and outer, forever, in peace.

You have a good heart! I can tell! Dont lose faith, dont lose heart!

Just pray that humans for some reason ARE special, and that some higher intelligence intervenes, or some spiritual 100th monkey awakening happens. I still have hope in the decency and intelligence of humanity. Someone will get it.
Oh and by the way, the person who wrote about people being inherently cruel and evil and such, I have another thing to add...
I would rather die agonizing and wretching of starvation than continue to live a lie and support an evil superpower that uses it's might to destroy the world rather than serve it.

Bill Hicks was a great comedian! and a real deep and meaningful thinker, too. Thanks. If I ever reach a wider audience, you can be sure my brains will eventually be ejected from a small hole in my skull, as well.

Hello agin indierockalien! What you speak of you will find the answer here.
I can not open the door for you, but only show you the door..

Sleeper's Blog, A gem!

Please read the whole thing.. That is the direct link to sleepers thread about what you talk about...
Its sertinly worth the read and you will learn that conspiracy is not just an earthly problem..

Sertinly changed my life reading that blog.. It honestly did..


here is the link for the thread itself
Comming clean! sleepers Thread!! ++A material

a little off topic... but to sum up just how serious this stuff is... I gave up drugs and alcohol, stopped watching TV, started READING, became alienated (no pun intended) from the putzs i thought were my friends, became spiritual, quit several jobs I was forced to find (and unfortunately still haven't found a way around it, sincce you can't work for anything other than imaginary numbers anymore, and nobody wants to help anyone who can't produce more fake ones and zeros, and even hippie communes are now only about selling their hand-made health products, not to mention mind control and molesting children [firsthand experience, Heathcote Commune in Freeland, MD is bad news])... and man I'm kinda lost as to what the next step is. I don't pretend to have an answer, but I do have some valid questions for everyone to ask. I do have some firsthand experience that the establishment lies and that the widely accepted worldview is a fraud. I have my word. I'm not a scientist, nor am I looking for attention. This is why the proof everyone seeks is elusive. Because people who've actually been touched and changed by these revelations and experiences don't first think to go jump for their cameras... because they aren't telling their stories for the skeptics, and they aren't in it to become popular or to prove they are right. They are compelled to share their experiences because people need to know, whether they fight it or not. People will know.
There are attention seekers, liars, and frauds out there... but the majority of people on this Earth ARE NOT that. So much mistrust... it really concerns me how people turn and attack each other so suddenly. It's fear of being wrong about the world we've grown up believing is so solid and founded.
I was devastated for weeks once I realized how big the lie was. I'll never be the same. It's a hard thing to accept, but once you do, it makes you a better person. I am happy I took the ummm...which pill was it again? the one that spits you out of the matrix, mannnnnnnn.

[edit on 8-9-2007 by indierockalien]

Its funny that I think this constitution is great, so is the declaration. Aside from the racist slave owning parts. And the course were on isnt good, but realize that generations every ten years are tricked into thinking worse things about this country by insurgents who sit here, live like us, and deceive, and you hope for good things. But America has a big role to play in deposing the evils you elude to. Not every american is stupid. Many just play it until a time they are called to stop an evil from happening. Like the fools in the extremes of religions suicide themselves, americans go to the extreme to stop them. Americans arent stupid, they are brainwashed, and its up to us to wake them up, not shock them into a polarized opposite thinking.

I'm kind of confused by the last comment. It's friggin dead hour of the dark morning here, so maybe I'm just tired. Are you saying that I think things are a lot worse than they actually are? or wait you also seem to be supporting me. I duno. need sleepy. more on this and other things tomorrow.
Re-read the constitution several times. I'm too tired to quote it right now, but WE, THE PEOPLE... and all that grand and epic freedom rallying speech that is thereof, was not written to be intended to mean ALL people, in my humble opinion (and obviously wasn't for blacks, women, children, or any man of questionable value). In my opinion, WE, THE PEOPLE... refers to "We, the ruling class of America..."
These words and rights were never written for us, but rather we were given privelidge to them because it concealed their secret well. George Bush was right when he said the constitution was just a "goddamn piece of paper" because it has no relevance now. The elite have found new, even more subversive ways, to control us. They don't depend on the same mind games that they did back then. They have technology and they use it. I mean, just think, every time a new gadget gets released to screw with our minds and distract us, we think we're getting more freedom. More comfort, less thought, less resistance. The more little gadgets we have that do things for us, the less we use our minds and our bodies, the more dependent we become on their corporations and energy monopolies. Technology is dangerous in the hands of the wrong people, and only the military industrial complex has all the technology. It is MOST DEFINITELY the WRONG people, mostly because it makes money off DEATH and DESTRUCTION. So how can we believe that complex has any more morality close to home or AT home? It gives us what it thinks would benefit THEM the most. It wouldn't give joe scmo a freely energetic 100percent energy efficient self sustaining instantaneous flight/travel vehicle, because that would compromise their whole revenue system. Even the drug trafficking would suffer. Who would become a heroin addict when they've got the whole world to explore, the whole solar system to traverse? A whole lot less, that's for sure. But they do make money from releasing all these silly overpriced and overhyped mostly useless gadgets for entertainment, because as long as a person stays entertained, they stay pretty much stationary, they get fat and their appetite increases and they get unhealthy and live shorter lifespans, yet they consume more, they're a lot more suceptible to processing subliminal messages and accepting propaghanda, as long as it's entertaining. The more gadgets, the more electricity used, the more oil products used to generate the electricity, the more money in the hands of the oil companies...and do I even have to mention those clanky ol' automobiles that haven't drastically changed in close to 100 years? 100 years before the automobile, we didn't even have a steam powered locomotive! Are we to believe that the technological boom of the twentieth century, especially late 20th century, just kind of forgot about cars? Why change something that's so profitable? Why educate people when it's more profitable to keep most dumb enough to consume (food/info/products/"services") without question as to why? Use your friends and pay off your enemies. Better yet, use your friends as paper plates, and let your enemies eat off your fine china because everything is doublespeak nowadays, so enemy actually means friend and vice versa. We are everything disposable, and that in itsself has been proven, and that in itsself should be conspiracy enough, in a country where supposedly every citizen is so important.

Originally posted by indierockalien
Dude, it's the same old "appreciate what you got" mentality again. I don't appreciate anything I have enough to not let it go for a better cause.

From what you been talking about you do not have much to "let it go" in the first place.

You could find a way to support your family without all the bells and whistles, and sure bad things are gunna happen sometimes, but the whole "go see how it is in other countries, and you'll appreciate blah blah blah" thing is always the argument I hear... and it's a big excuse. It's a big excuse for people to be able to sit in their luxury and not feel guilty.

Well we all can live without the bells and whistles, but depends on what you feel we should get rid of. My income allows me choices only. If my income was alot less I could still live, but I would have a lot less choices to pick from. That is how most of the world lives. They live, but they have no choices. I never feel guilty for I worked for everything I have with zero help from anyone.

I have done extensive travel and that is why I say what I say. Americans just do not know what poor is or what the true meaning of no hope is. I do and that is why I work hard so that doesn't happen to me.

This is all a luxury, a lulling convenience, a distraction....and in 500 years, if we keep running this course...we're gunna be gone 200 years ago! Humanity and life on Earth will be BUT a memory!
I don't believe humanity is naturally savage at all, either. If we were naturally savage and cruel, then somebody in my family would be torturing and killing others. If it's average, then then odds are most of the people I am related to are evil and cruel...and that's just NOT so.
Everything you stated there is an excuse to continue being exactly the way you are and to avoid the anxiety that comes from being forced to change your ways.

I think that technology over the next few hundred years will really chance everything, but we just need to survive until then.

No, we are evil and cruel. I’m not saying we are evil and cruel at the individual level for each of us have that choice even though those negative abilities are in everyone of us, but as a race we are.

When you look around the world you see it on a mass level throughout. You want to say my lifestyle is wrong, but what about the millions dying in Africa yearly due to warlords and starvation. There is a graveyard in Egypt that has 100,000 of these little one room building attached to the family crypts since for a long time it was a overnight trip to visit the dead, but today there are millions living there in squalor, and they feel like the lucky ones. I went to India and walked out the gates to my hotel and there were 10,000s living in card board boxes looking for a hand out. I could write 10 pages of this but you get the point.

I just do not understand why you are worries my lifestyle needs to be drastically reduced to save the planet and you don’t even think about the situations that I wrote above.

I wish someone could enforce that in a non-fascist way, but you can't force people to do anything because there's too many of them. That's the whole problem. There's just too many people. My guess is a great fear that this time, we've truly lost

What you talk about is pure communism. No nation has reached that for at some point the government needs to dissolve and everyone is equal while all are living in a country size community. The problem with this is basic human nature that will not allow it to happen. It is also basic human nature to work hard for some kind of reward, so to have a country where some people work very hard and others do not but all are equal is just not possible.

One thing I do not think you even thought about is the advancement of the human race comes about when we have time available to do it. If we spend 15 hours a day just to survive like the days of old we have little time to apply towards the areas that make us better. As a small example, it would be kind of hard for me to make a better plow when I spend 15 hours per day working the fields with my old one.

Most people around the world are stuck in basic survival and it is really up to America and a few other countries that have the time to invest to make a better world. What you want to see gone is what will save us down the road.

Also, I would not obsess so much over things you have no control over and focus on what you do control. This goes back to my first post that your family is what is important and it just happens that your family and YOU are the only things you have control over to make life better.

P.S. Make paragraphs




[edit on 8-9-2007 by Xtrozero]

Originally posted by indierockalien
I would rather die agonizing and wretching of starvation than continue to live a lie and support an evil superpower that uses it's might to destroy the world rather than serve it.

America does try and serve the world, but you just disagree with how it goes about it.

Your arguments are very good ones, and I'll admit that some of my ideas are radical, AND I'll admit that I've never visited a third world country... but if I did, and I saw exactly what you saw, I would be even more disgusted with myself and this country. We spend tens of billions of dollars a year fighting "terror", when all we've done in the middle east is destabilize the country, steal its oil, and kill its civilians.We haven't arrested any masterminds of importance, and if we have, it was either to make an example for the world to see and go "ah ha, that's why we're fighting this crazy war, terrorists like that mean faced stereotypical movie-type arabian", and those guys ARE out there. I believe that terrorists exist, and I believe that there may possibly have even been terrorist involvement ON Sept 11th, although that posibility gets questioned when you realize that all the evidence points out the two planes, or at least one in perticular, as being military. There's no question in MY mind, as I hope there is no question in yours, that a lot more sinister things were going on that day than just pissed off Muslims. The point, though, about all this money for war is that, if we were truly trying to help people in any way, shape, or form, wouldn't we be spending tens of billions in relief aide to war-torn countries? Wouldn't we all be encouraged by the government to give up at least some of our luxuries in order to provide even more for other countries? No. Instead, now more then ever, the message is CONSUME CONSUME CONSUME, and "save the planet by buying an overpriced hybrid car." The average joe cannot afford to "go green". Wait, afford? I didn't know it COST anything to become more one with nature? Well, it does now, at least in the way they want you to, and if you try any other way like moving to the forest and building your own residence, that's either trespassing or tax evasion. Can't do that. So what? We should feel good about ourselves because we buy "eco-friendly" products?
Dude, no. It doesn't do anything, and some companies owned by individuals are definitely trying, but in the end, the big problem overshadows them, and that's the gov't and the corporations that own YES the world, including most governments.
So in your opinion, this is all just human nature? To take from the weak and less fortunate and to horde it in a greedy fashion, while making excuses as to why you hording your stolen wealth is justified? (this means in general, not towards you specifically) I don't see that in human nature at all. It's true that we're all full of fears, and if those fears came true, many wouldn't know what to do and would probably resort to that, yes... but that's because they fear death too much. If they really knew... and I could talk for hours about spirituality and stuff, but until you experience what spirit and self really are, none of this will make sense...and you will continue to have the same arguments. The same arguments don't apply if you have experienced what life is really made of.
I decided to bring up that point because, A) I don't wanna continue an argument that neither side will win because we're both coming from way different angles (although neither of them are wrong. you're right if you look at everything in an animalistic fight to survive type of way) and B) I gotta go do some errands.
The point is, humans are a lot more than you give them credit for, and governments of today want you to think exactly how you are thinking in order to continue getting support from its people. "It's a fight to survive, and this gov't is the best we got. Do you wana survive like those skin-and-bones Ethiopians? No. Anyone who complains is just lazy and doesn't have a lot to lose and doesn't know what hard work is like I do, and doesn't appreciate the bone they're given."
Like I said before, maybe you haven't experienced corruption and discrimination and a complete LACK of freedom of choice like I have in our own USA.

Yeah, it is our choice to do what we do... but is it really OUR choice if our descision has been guided by others since the DAY we were born, and it's still being guided that way even today? There is a problem with being too busy and working too hard for what you think you want (because most people don't know or have frgotten), and that is A) you don't have time to stop and sit back and really look at the big picture of your life, B) it was never what you really wanted, you just settled, and C) eventually you get trapped in a routine because you think you have to...especially now that you bring women and children/family into the mix. Now you gotta support what seems like the whole world, and of course then it's even harder to see. In my humble opinion, there's nothing wrong with that. It's just that not everyone can take the card they are handed in life because they didn't choose it. Millions of people throughout this country were not fortunate as you, were misguided, were tricked or forced into lives of almost absolute servitude... in a country where people are supposed to be free, millions feel chained. Why are we even IN other countries pretending to be helping some cause when we're already dying from the inside? Our country isn't even helping it's own citizens!