Know Thy Enemy : The NSA

You're right on the money PYROS. I feel the same way.

Mr. M

Originally posted by StarChild
I'm more familiar with the NSA than you might think. However, I am not very familiar with the operations of major computer corporations. That is why my suspicion is raised against them, for the simple fact that I don't know as much about them as I do about NSA.

It is in my opinion logical to conclude that without the Microsofts, Apples, Hewlett Packards, IBMs, and so on, having the ability to implant privacy invading devices, that you wouldn't have this problem addressed in this thread. Right? Right.

Originally posted by Pyros
"The NSA is the authority on information gathering in the US. Microsoft is legally binded to incorporate backdoors into their operating systems software to allow for easy access by NSA espionage agents. That's why they have all of that monitoring technology... not because of corporate interests, but because of contracts with the NSA. Furthermore, a lot of those 'critical' security patches are to improve the functionality of those backdoors, I believe. Since the NSA also uses hackers, don't you think it was rather interesting that hackers (probably disgruntled exemployees) had such an easy time giving Microsoft and MS-based business networks downtime with Blaster and worms virii? Think about that one and how that answers both of your questions on the matter. Who has the most to gain from data mining and backdoors into PC's? Microsoft and their customer base or the NSA?"

Do you have some actual proof of this, or are you just spewing forth conspiricy theory garbage?

Those people who work with the NSA (and you obviously are not one of them) understand that the NSA, for the most part, consists of loyal US citizens defending the Constitution and the American way of life. You obviously don't understand the sacrafices alot of these people make to keep your way of life intact. I'm sorry if that sounds corny or old-fashioned, but it is the simple truth.

If I were a paranoid consiricy theorist, I might conjecture that the purpose of your post was simply to ilicit a response from people who had real and valid information about NSA activities, in an effort to collect such information. Maybe you are hostile agent, trying to gather information about real NSA activities and capabilities. Or....maybe you WORK for the NSA, and this is all a ruse in an effort to find leaks within the NSA itself! (LOL) But since I am not, I will not bother to debunk your bunk.

If you don't mind, I'm not going to waste my time worrying about the NSA and it's activities right now. BTW, I'm way more inclined to be concerned about people who use terms like "collective mind" and "population control".....

[Edited on 17-3-2004 by Pyros]

you both are entitled to your own self-limiting thoughts. and don't take this the wrong way; I only say this to encourage you two to look further into what you are saying. let's see if it works

Starchild, wrong. Wrong. Wrong. The companies only incorporate such technologies into their devices as ordered by the NSA. no I don't have any documents readily available, but a net search may turn some things up. I have seen patent information before that suggests this kind of activity, however. You're new to this whole conspiracy bit, it seems, so maybe in time you will have a better idea of what I am talking about. Once you get past the military conditioning, and good luck with that, you will find that there is a whole world before you that is completely different than you had previously envisioned.



Pyros, I don't know exactly where you're coming from. You kinda sound like a cold-war leftover relic what with your talk about sacrificing lives for a constitution that has been raped and torn to bits by successive exective orders. Not that I'm happy about such a grim situation, that doesn't change the fact that this is something that is happening very slowly over time. Similar to boiling a frog by slowly turning up the heat, as opposed to just flash frying the poor amphibian, is a good metaphor to describe this process. Have you heard about FEMA and Homeland Security? Ask them what they think of the precious constitution. Ask your hero GW Bush what he thinks about the constitution that so many sacrifices were made over.

Consider thinking about how much you have been brainwashed into your position. You probably watch movies like SWAT and cop dramas and think feds are the #. Let me tell you, they're not. They're not in it for heroics, they're in it for the check, mate. That and the power trip, it seems. I'm not saying this about ALL feds, as I am sure that there are the few exceptions to the rule that really do strive to keep the country safe and clear for their children.

I am somewhat tempted to say that I work for the NSA, but I won't, as that'd be outright lying. Such dishonor is not something I look for, so when I speak here, it is the truth, so far as I know. It sounds like, however, that you may be a bit overparanoid with that conjecture. Your ability to conjecture that I am something like a hostile agent or an inside man trying to lure people is rather intellectual, however, so that I'll give you. I can assure you that I am none of the above, in terms of your suggestions. There is no covert agenda behind this thread: the purpose behind this thread was to inform the readers of this board, that's all, swear. You didn't debunk my bunk because you can't. How would you?

Furthermore, to debunk your sad defense of the NSA, what makes you say they are heroically saving the country? Does assasination of 'unwanted' foreign leaders count as something like that? Does the contract of 'if you tell people, we will kill you' do anything to protect lives of the innocent? Maybe you're talking about the way the NSA listens to your intimate conversations with a significant other, or they way the NSA sends handlers to keep leaders in the dark?

And what if I didn't want my way of life intact? What if I think the way society is right now is two shakes of a dog's tail short of a crock of #? Is that what they are preserving? Big Brother? Why, yes. You're right. They are preserving my consumer-driven, yet sociologically-limited way of life. But if I know your kind well enough, you haven't made it this far in reading my reply. If you have, hats off to ya. There is hope for you yet.

[Edited on 3/17/2004 by AlnilamOmega]

Originally posted by Pyros

If you don't mind, I'm not going to waste my time worrying about the NSA and it's activities right now. BTW, I'm way more inclined to be concerned about people who use terms like "collective mind" and "population control".....

[Edited on 17-3-2004 by Pyros]

you worry because we are aware of the larger patterns of the human soup? or because you don't understand what the mass mind is?
have you not heard of the 'report from iron mountain'? (depopulation)
have you not heard of marshall mcluhan? (understanding media [media being any medium, be it newspaper, t.v., dirt, or electro-magnetism])
if you've answered no to both these questions, then you should release your fear of the unknown and do a search or two to seek understanding of the ebb and flow of psychic forces which steer the spaceship earth.

Originally posted by billybob

have you not heard of marshall mcluhan? (understanding media [media being any medium, be it newspaper, t.v., dirt, or electro-magnetism])

I would also like to suggest the works of Noam Chomsky, a specialist in liguistical communications. He is quite adept with explaining the media, and how it ties into television (amongst many other complex topics). You can find video documentaries of him online every now and then, and he is quite the intelligent man. He knows what he is talking about, IMHO.

AlnilamOmega

I'll focus on the NSA which, unlike it's appendage the CIA or its torso, the HSA, is the world's biggest known espionage agency.

There is another agency called International Security, how does it fit in? Isn't there another agency above this body of HSA, one that is not mentioned very often if at all? Would that controlling group be the International Security or Global Security?
International Security I do know of because I have been across the US-Canadian border a few times.

BTW, very interesting info

AO,
Since you did not offer any proof of your claims, as I requested, I will accept that at face value that you lack any such proof.

You make a lot of assumptions about me based upon the content of my previous post(s). I would advise against it, as we all know what happens when you 'assume' too much. While I am a veteran of the Cold War (I have my certifcate hanging above my desk), I am neither a relic or a left-over. At 38 I still consider myself fairly young, mister. However, the last 20 of those 38 years has been spent guarding the national security of the US, either by active military service or by employment in the National Industrial Security Program.

My association with the NSA over these years has been most gratifying. Almost to a man (and woman), every NSA employee I have ever dealt with has been professional and honest.

I first dealt with the NSA while serving in the US Navy overseas, dealing with them on issues of Sigint and Comint. I provided them with raw intelligence from forward areas, and they provided us with analysis, targeting information, and tools to help us do our jobs better. Together we worked to keep track of the Soviet Bloc, their allies, their movements, and their capabilities in order to maintain our national defense posture. At the end of this 'Cold War', we claimed victory and it was our way of life that was preserved, not theirs.

After leaving the service, I sought and gained employment with a number of National Laboratories and DoD contractors, where again I worked on NSA programs and still do to this day. Some of these programs involve such areas as communications security, information warfare, and security education and training. I have received NSA training which allows me to perform cetain security-related functions, and I continue to interact with my counterparts at this organization on a wide range of national security topics.

So as you can see AO, unlike you I happen to speak from a position of knowledge and experience. My observations and commentary are not based on web-sites run by so-called government watch dogs, nor are they based upon books commonly found on the selves of your local Barnes & Noble. My opinions are based upon an association with these poeple that has been going on for the larger part of my adult life. These people are my friends and colleagues, and I tend to react negatively to anyone who attempts to besmirch their reputation or work ethic woithout the benefit of actually having a friggin' clue of what they are talking about.

You blithely comment on how I must watch movies like SWAT or police shows, and how they must influence my line of thought. Well, I don't watch that type of programming (I'm a Discovery Channel addict), nor do I need to, as I have a parent who happens to be employed by my home town PD. I also happen to live 30 minutes away from my cousin Kyle, who is an Air Marshall, so I just might have heard about the Homeland Security Department somewhere in my travels.....

It sometimes annoys the crap outta me that people on my side of the fence work and sacrafice, only so that people on your side of the fence can throw shyte grenades at us all day long. But I take solace in the fact that your cynicism and commentary are actually health signs of a functioning democracy. But that doesn't mean I have to take it seriously......

Happy Trails, citizen.

P

Pyros,

From one civil servant to another I just wanted to go on record as saying thanks. If no one else here appreciates what you did/still do, at least you can say you did more for this country than they ever did.

Pyros,

First, I'd like to say that I appreciate your opposition. Instead of directly attacking me, you attacked my credibility which is perfectly understandable considering my lack of hardcore proof in this thread. I'll get into that in a moment or in a follow-up post, that's for sure. Secondly, I'd like to thank you for responding to me again, thus proving me wrong about my assumption that you were just spitting out propaganda. You're obviously nothing I assumed, and I truly did make a slight ass out of myself, as the saying goes.

With that out of the way, I hope I didn't give you too much of a reason to grind your axe, as I have nothing against you in any shape or form. To tell you the truth, I didn't look for your old posts to make that deduction... it was just a presumption made at that time. I would also like to apologize for my poor choice of words in terms of "cold war relic". I probably offended when I meant to inspire. The cold war was nothing more than an excuse for the US and Russia to start building up their military-industrial-complexes. Seriously, now, I can say this with far more confidence than this NSA issue. Since the times of the Bolshevik revolution / Red October, the Soviet Union has been funded in part by the Rockefellers which was a family busy with expanding their influence gained by oil monopolies. The alliance with the top levels of the Kremlin and the Rockefellers continued for a long time, as Premier Khrushchev and Nelson Rockefeller would meet up to discuss business deals all the time. The shady deals between the former USSR and the Rockefellers contributed to the so-called collapse of their government, primarily because, amongst other financiers, the Rockefellers pulled the bank's plug whilst liquidating all of their soviet assets. Knowing that the Rockefellers are part of the Eastern Establishment, it should be relatively simple for you to deduce that the cold war was just a simulated event whose sole purpose was to put money in the pockets of the same industrialists. If you don't believe me, that's fine, but the information is out there. It's also here on ATS, I'm sure. You have to wonder about this, especially since Putin last year tried to can the Yukos-Rockefeller oil deal which would have raped Russia again. It's no coincidence that Putin reacted so strongly against Kordokovsky (the Yukos owner) and his deal with Exxon-Mobil, the Rockefeller Oil and Gas conglomerate. I can go further into this if you'd like, but this would be way off-topic. Ask me if you're interested and I'll post a new thread on the matter.

You say yourself that you worked on projects like "communications security". That alone validates, at least partially, my stated suspicions on the NSA's level of eavesdropping on the general public. Furthermore, you know EXACTLY what I am talking about with the war on information, so I am not sure why you are offering me such a stiff opposition. Are you trying to say that censorship, or the ability to tell people what to say and what to think, is for the best? Or maybe you are trying to suggest that disinformation is created to save the American dream?

I used to be a Discovery Channel and TLC addict, too! Then they started airing more forensic specials and TLC became a reality show network... But I find that the enlightening programming that both channels used to air were probably too focused on educating the general population, and this probably displeased certain corporate and government leaders. In fact, I owe it to TLC for their presentations on Ancient Egypt as that knowledge formed the base for my fascination with ancient history.

Finally, I understand your frustrations with my kind of people throwing rocks at you guys. It's only natural for you and your colleagues to despise this kind of talk, as it could be taken as a direct offense to your jobs. I assure you, however, I am not throwing grenades at people who really are focused on keeping Americans safe from cruel terrorist attacks. In fact, I would like to take this oppurtunity to thank you and your colleagues for keeping this country safe, at least on an international level. This kind of talk, however, would end quickly if the secrecy around the NSA would just go away, I am sure. If they publically came out and said, "This is what we do, this is why we do it, and this is why what we do is necessary for the people of our country", then all of these problems would go away. But that won't happen anytime soon, will it?

Theres Marshall Mcluhan casual viewing head buried in the sand .
Sirens on the roof tops wailing but theres no ships sailing
groucho with his movies trailing stands alone with his punch line failing
Ku Klux Klan serves hot soul food and the band plays in the mood
The cheer leader waves her cyanide wand theres a smell of peach blossom and bitter almond
Carl chessman sniffs the air and leads the parade he know in a scent you can bottle all you made
THeres Howard Hughes in blue suede shoes smiling at the majorette smoking winston cigarrettes
and as the song and dance begins the children play at home with needles....needles and pins

Originally posted by watcheroftheskies
Theres Marshall Mcluhan casual viewing head buried in the sand .
Sirens on the roof tops wailing but theres no ships sailing
groucho with his movies trailing stands alone with his punch line failing
Ku Klux Klan serves hot soul food and the band plays in the mood
The cheer leader waves her cyanide wand theres a smell of peach blossom and bitter almond
Carl chessman sniffs the air and leads the parade he know in a scent you can bottle all you made
THeres Howard Hughes in blue suede shoes smiling at the majorette smoking winston cigarrettes
and as the song and dance begins the children play at home with needles....needles and pins

that makes scents. the pstench phils me with thrills of days long lost yesteryear yet to happen. soon the past will unfold be for us. the ten thunders echo the bairdboard bombardment screen's dim afterimage of the future.

(we'd better stop, we'll get banned because nobody understands. thanks for this poetry, watcheroftheskies)

AlnilamOmega, my military background gives me an edge over those who haven't had this experience, especially in the conspiracy theory related fields. I have seen a lot of things you haven't seen, done a lot of things you have never done, and probably never will. I am willing to go out on a limb here, and bet that I have more real world experience in this field than you do, or ever will have.

So don't come at me with that whole "your brainwashed" type deal, because it isn't even like that. Yeah, there are some people who come out of the military like that, but I have always had an open-mind, and for the most part am a pretty laid back guy. I don't get all caught up in the hype, unlike a lot of people.

So before you say that I am "new" or still learning, or anything like that, make sure you know exactly what you are talking about and who you are talking about. Because I personally don't appreciate being reprimanded by someone on a forum who knows nothing about me, what I do, or what I've done. Just some advice.

No hard feelings, though. I'm just putting this out there.


Mr. M

I like the line about Maryland, dude you nailed it. I can say from experience, that place sucks about as much as Delaware, or West Virginia

Isn't the NSA supposed to protect? That security part of NSA tells a lot. If they do their own thing on personal matter and stuff then you start worrying. If its not like that I don't really have to worry. If you believe in a NSA conspiracy go watch Enemy of the State or something. Its a movie and all, but if the NSA can do that, it would be scary.

[Edited on 24-3-2004 by Agent Iceman]

Originally posted by ANMAN
The NSA employs the most mathematicians in the world and they have thier own computer chip factory on scene so nobody knows what they desire for processing power.

Is the on-site CPU manufacturing facility a well-known fact? I've never heard that before. I'd like to know where you heard/read that so I can do some research.

Im just enjoying the port scans. I get around 70 per day