Know Thy Enemy : The NSA

dont care, dont care, shutup, no, dont care...

now that I have answered at least 5 of the expected disinformation-artists replies, here comes an atom bomb of a post. no time to get to your bunkers, agents.



As a free people, it has been thought that the number one enemy to us has to be anything trying to curb or otherwise end that freedom. This thread is dedicated to just that... anything and anyone who is indirectly or directly involved in such stuff. This first installment is on my beloved espionage agency, the NSA

While I'd love to drone on Homeland Security, that would take a whole webpage. Right now, I'll focus on the NSA which, unlike it's appendage the CIA or its torso, the HSA, is the world's biggest known espionage agency.

What is the NSA?
The National Security Agency, or NSA, is a hideously clever entity. It has survived at least 50 years of official operation under covert cover. With an armada of supercomputers in its underground bunkers, teams of people like you and me are trained to spy on people, without much prejudice. In the state of Maryland, Ft. Meade holds the privilege of holding the NSA's headquarters. Uncoincidentally, the NSA is also the biggest single employer of Maryland citizens. If you have ever been to Maryland, chances are you didn't really have fun or just didn't like something about it. And that my friend, was not just some happenstance.

Tools of the NSA
These people, trained by the NSA, wield a wide variety of powers. A growing number of people are specifically trained to post messages on the web through various public communications outlets. You can easily observe this form of social engineering in any kind of message board, public or commercial, where you have a variety of strategies being deployed by these people.

Message Board Espionage
For instance, in a site based on...say... Britney Spears fandom, you have people who are trained to specifically promote (not usually NSA, more likely to be the record company) or to destroy her popularity dependent on how well she is behaving towards her masters. You can see this in any forum that discusses lighter topics like Kobe Bryant or Michael Jackson, where those that are well trained in slander operations are busy making cryptically verbal assaults at the given subject and posting long and put-together pieces of circumstantial events that are oriented at confusing the typical browser or pursuading the person to dislike the target.

On the other side, you have forums that are politically or operationally oriented (cough cough). Agents delegated towards these areas are more sophisticated, and employ a variety of means to accomplish one task: decimation or destruction of the board. Unless the board is set up by the NSA or one of its satellite agencies for public monitoring services, this is what those people always do.

The Tools of the Trade
One tactic is to just attack a random article of interest and make savvy attempts to draw the poster of that article into feeling less important, thus making the author less likely to talk about a similar subject. A more complex tactic is the "hi there, bye there" which features a person who observes and says a few things here and there, maybe gets a few nods from some people, and states a departure. This is designed to demotivate anyone who wasn't already heavily interested in discussing the forum's topics. IMHO, this is the silliest tactic of all because it has very little effect on me and I haven't seen it affect much anyone else. The classic agent is almost robotic, not because he is a machine, but because he is following a sheet like a telemarketer. As a result their tactics become highly identifiable, and readily predictable, such as the "they got me" tactic which is designed to scare people into thinking they can be next.

Now, Im not saying that these agents with these supercomputers are all wasting their computing power and time with such stupid antics. I am saying however that there are such people, and I am sure of this because they always say the same things at the same time. Now lets get to another side of the NSA.

War On Information
Because they have a wealth of information from not only the CIA but also you and me, they can use that information to distort and control the flow of information throughout their realm. While not always designing the latest and greatest psyop to use on regular civilians, the NSA is usually busy figuring out how to use the information that they have to throw a dark cloud on people. They can put out stories with tidbits of truth, but within the distortion of lies is the propaganda which is one of the NSA's greatest talents.

Because of its history with the KGB, the NSA is and has been instilling all kinds of propaganda by whatever forms of media possible. They were most prudently active during the 60's and 70's, but homages or active applications of their work can still be seen in stuff today. This is also why movies never show the "good parts" like the ending of 28 Days and they didn't even show how the area was saved probably because it would look just like a chemtrail operation. Also because of its control of information, the NSA knows that there would be very little that would be generally known to prove whatever they have released is based on little truth.

Above the Law
The war on information is spearheaded by the NSA, and they are primarily the source of the stonewall on many controversial topics because they control that information. Because, by law, they are regulated only when they are specifically mentioned by a specific bill or law, they are effectively outside of congressional, judiciary, and military supervision. Take this example: the law says "you kill someone, it's manslaughter" and you automatically go to court, right? Well, unless the law says "the NSA kills someone, it's manslaughter" the NSA would never have to respond to ANY such murder charge. Their name has to be specifically named to apply to some kind of prosecutable charge.


Eavesdropping and Information gathering
The NSA also operates a wide contigency of secured phone lines, usually maintained and operated by a special apparatus of AT&T. What the CIA doesnt overhear with its bugs and phonetaps, the NSA hears and sees with its advanced monitoring technologies that include helicopters with sensor devices (like laser microphones) and its special backdoor to certain personal computers and mobile phone towers. This is primarily how they stay on top of the game. Because they have so much information, they can predict the actions of their target based on their records as well as the newly recorded stuff, and thus they can nullify the threat by preemptively weakening the target via whatever means necessary.

Controlling the media
So many phone lines and computers are within the NSA's possession (under contract from the actual owners of the phone lines which are technically linked to the Israeli Mossad through various Israeli corporate fronts) that almost half of the hackers within the United States are likely to be employees of the NSA, contracted, naturally. Not the phishers who are trying to get your credit card number, but the people committing to DDOS or Denial Of Service attacks which rendered al-Jazeera inoperable during the start, climax, and conclusion to the US invasion of Iraq. Because of their advanced computer sabotage technology, the NSA is also the source of many viruses within the US, not only because it employs a wide variety of computer geniuses, but also because it has such a far reach to many computer servers nationwide. These people systematically destroy attempts at liberalizing information at this level, and have even resorted to denying random users access to certain files available to most on the Internet. I, personally, get several hits from my own ISP and several random IP's and I am very careful not to broadcast my IP. Yet, somehow, within seconds of logging on I am under attack.

"Shepherding" the Sheep
The last main operation of the NSA is population control. This is a dynamic and sophisticated form of espionage deployment, and can have several shapes or forms. In many high-profile cases, handlers posing as friends are sent to keep people in line with an agenda, and most commonly, antagonists are specifically sent to form an opposition against a person if she is becoming too popular. The public could never be the wiser because the agent is sworn to the highest secrecy: he could never reveal his real job because he could then be legally killed by the NSA.


and that's how they get 'ya. If you sign this paper, you work for us now and if you turn your back on us, you're dead to not only us... but to everyone else.

How to defeat the monster
Currently, the best countermeasure for such a monstrous octopus is passive resistance. by knowing their tactics and being able to predict their actions, much like they do with you and me, you can shield yourself from their unwanted influences.

*disclaimer* enemy in this context explicitly means party of which serves to be a grievance upon many, and nothing else.

[Edited on 1/18/2004 by AlnilamOmega]

[Edited on 1/18/2004 by AlnilamOmega]

[Edited on 1/18/2004 by AlnilamOmega]

So if someone disagrees with you - does that automatically damn them as an agent of the NSA?

no, not at all. the first line was more of a joke, really. a harmless "ha-ha" to get the reader interested.

if someone disagrees, please do so, so I can learn from such a perspective and reform my information on it. my signature's disclaimer always encourages someone to disagree with me if at all possible as I value different perspectives.

[Edited on 1/18/2004 by AlnilamOmega]

I pretty much agree with AlnilamOmega these things are very possible through the NSA, but i believe that these kind of things would be leaked somehow, so they can't have a bunch of busy bees posting stuff on the internet. When it comes to functions of super computers and wire tapping, yes they can do that. Out of the 21+ billion chunk of gov spending that is sent to "?" or black budget the NSA gets a bite. The NSA employs the most mathematicians in the world and they have thier own computer chip factory on scene so nobody knows what they desire for processing power.

try googling ECHELON. pretty scarey stuff but i think it's sort of antiquated in the flood of information in the world, but i don't think they have stopped trying ESPECIALLY with the terrorist stuff. I have heard about them making people like AT&T let them install thier listening posts on thier new fiber optics becuase it's so hard to tap. Also i have heard about fiber tapping underwater subs and crazy stuff like that ranging from sniffing keywords to satellite mind control. I find this stuff pretty interesting and that's why i did my senior thesis on it.

they keep us busy posting the new age tech religion of science and or alien conspiracys.

undoubtedly they control all if not most of the conspiracy forums on the internet.

as far as non internet agents, how many would have to be employed to watch everybody? Their main mode of operation would be to infiltrate/intimidate groups/clicks that might pose a threat to their localized region.

Notice how intelgurl voiced her disagreement with this by turning her argument into an absolute property.

The No Such Agency as it is known in the intel groups, was created for one purpose and that purpose is to protect the security of the country.
Does it go overboard sometimes? Yes 99.9% of any organization at some time will. Would I prefer it not exist? No .
IMO unless you yourself are doing something that jepordizes the security of the US, WHAT do you have to worry about?
That they listen to you? I highly doubt that they devote much time to what you are saying UNLESS again, you are creating a threat to the US. I'm sure that most people here have a sometime used a scanner, you've heard portable phone calls, baby monitors etc, ever asked a cop friend to run a tag for you? How bout these "find anything on anybody" programs? Or better yet, how about keystroke programs that log everything that you do...these are available in the provate sector. ....does that make you like the NSA? As for hundreds or thousands of agents watching the NET, it's not efficient. Just attach to several nodes, and have a program that "listens" for you, then if something of interest pops up they can devote more attention to it.
Think what it would be like in this country , if we DIDN'T have anyone listening, or watching .
Again YES they do at times overstep their bounds, but I would think that those cases are few and far between compared to the items that we never hear about, that stopped someone from doing something crazy.

It would need massive forum activity to alter the public opinion in a way that you can see it at all.

Internet forums are heavily used but always by the same kind and mass of people, thinking that those people form a great mass of buyers, voters or whatever isn't thought well enough

You alter the public opinion by TV or newspapers but not through some forum messages.

Controlling the media
So many phone lines and computers are within the NSA's possession (under contract from the actual owners of the phone lines which are technically linked to the Israeli Mossad through various Israeli corporate fronts) that almost half of the hackers within the United States are likely to be employees of the NSA, contracted, naturally. Not the phishers who are trying to get your credit card number, but the people committing to DDOS or Denial Of Service attacks which rendered al-Jazeera inoperable during the start, climax, and conclusion to the US invasion of Iraq. Because of their advanced computer sabotage technology, the NSA is also the source of many viruses within the US, not only because it employs a wide variety of computer geniuses, but also because it has such a far reach to many computer servers nationwide. These people systematically destroy attempts at liberalizing information at this level, and have even resorted to denying random users access to certain files available to most on the Internet. I, personally, get several hits from my own ISP and several random IP's and I am very careful not to broadcast my IP. Yet, somehow, within seconds of logging on I am under attack.

DDos attacks are kiddy stuff. The hacker/cracker scene is full of groups packed with 14-year olds that "own" thousands of zombie computers which can start an attack on their will. Hundreds of groups around and all filled with braindead asses, it really doesn't need the NSA to do such a thing.
About the hits/attacks on your IP. Wake up! Ten-thousands of kids out there playing with automatic vulnerability scanners, auto hackers and so on who are looking for an open host. It's kids not the USA, and it is a damn big scene.
@half of the hackers: Yea, the everlasting story of the hackers getting contracted by the NSA, jeeeez!

About the forum posts: It is mostly some of us having a bad day or just the honest opinion. Why should it most likely be a NSA
agent to post on such forums so significally?
Do they post on german, spanish, portugese, russian and israeli forums too? Why not? Also on arab?
Where is the undeniable proof?
Why did it never happen that a forum administrator saw somebody with likely government IPs posting? They used fake dial-ups?

The NSA are a bunch of the best mathematicans in the world, not some opinion-makers who browse through bulletin boards, accept it and enjoy reading forums all over the world with the opinion of the people.

DDos attacks are kiddy stuff. The hacker/cracker scene is full of groups packed with 14-year olds that "own" thousands of zombie computers which can start an attack on their will. Hundreds of groups around and all filled with braindead asses, it really doesn't need the NSA to do such a thing.
About the hits/attacks on your IP. Wake up! Ten-thousands of kids out there playing with automatic vulnerability scanners, auto hackers and so on who are looking for an open host. It's kids not the USA, and it is a damn big scene.
@half of the hackers: Yea, the everlasting story of the hackers getting contracted by the NSA, jeeeez!

About the forum posts: It is mostly some of us having a bad day or just the honest opinion. Why should it most likely be a NSA
agent to post on such forums so significally?
Do they post on german, spanish, portugese, russian and israeli forums too? Why not? Also on arab?
Where is the undeniable proof?
Why did it never happen that a forum administrator saw somebody with likely government IPs posting? They used fake dial-ups?

The NSA are a bunch of the best mathematicans in the world, not some opinion-makers who browse through bulletin boards, accept it and enjoy reading forums all over the world with the opinion of the people.

Originally posted by NetStorm
The No Such Agency as it is known in the intel groups, was created for one purpose and that purpose is to protect the security of the country.
Does it go overboard sometimes? Yes 99.9% of any organization at some time will. Would I prefer it not exist? No .
IMO unless you yourself are doing something that jepordizes the security of the US, WHAT do you have to worry about?
That they listen to you? I highly doubt that they devote much time to what you are saying UNLESS again, you are creating a threat to the US. I'm sure that most people here have a sometime used a scanner, you've heard portable phone calls, baby monitors etc, ever asked a cop friend to run a tag for you? How bout these "find anything on anybody" programs? Or better yet, how about keystroke programs that log everything that you do...these are available in the provate sector. ....does that make you like the NSA? As for hundreds or thousands of agents watching the NET, it's not efficient. Just attach to several nodes, and have a program that "listens" for you, then if something of interest pops up they can devote more attention to it.
Think what it would be like in this country , if we DIDN'T have anyone listening, or watching .
Again YES they do at times overstep their bounds, but I would think that those cases are few and far between compared to the items that we never hear about, that stopped someone from doing something crazy.

A few years ago, the poota's at a major telescope kept
alerting the astron' that 'signals' were being detected from
some-where in the universe about 10 to 15 times every 24hr.... until they worked
out that the remote control for the boom-gate in the
underground car-park ( thought to be secure)
was on the same band-width
D'oh true story

I don't doubt the evilness or pervasiveness of groups such as the NSA, NRO, or DIA, but its hard to tell exactly what they do at any given moment. IMO, most are too occupied with keeping stuff secret rather than feeding constant disinformation or attacking people online.

THe NSA is soon going to be out of date any two bit phreaker can make a high encrption phone, and any good hacker can block a trace to some extent the only people they catch are hackers,and phreakers that get lazy or make a stupid mistake even then it takes some time to find them so the NSA doesnt seem like much of a threat any more

great post. the idea that a huge army of these people is needed is a red herring. a good meme loosed into the mass mind is worth three thousand drill sargeants shouting at the top of their lungs. people have no idea how impressionable their minds are.
constant vigilance is required to keep your own mind.
the group mind is the one 'they' are concerned about.
how do revolutions(hmmm? cycles.) start? seemingly spontaneously, but in reality a certain meme reaches critical mass within the group mind. this is the science of herding the masses. diffusing memes.
p.s. OF COURSE they are HERE.

from valdamaar valerians the matrix
an interview with a cia employee

Dont kid your self . this country is controlled by the pentagon. all major decisions are made by the military.
The cia 's just the whipping boy. NSA are the ones that have the hit teams.Look into there records-you wont find a thing. Look into their budget - you cant.
The cia is just a figurehead, but as far as intelligence goes,the nsa's far superior to them-far in advance in the black arts. the cia gets blamed for what the nsa does.nsa is for more vicious and far more accomplished in its operations. The american people are kept in ignorance of this- they should be ,too. What your saying is that the military is more dangerous to our democracy than the cia or other intelligence groups?
The cia gathers the information but the military heads the show.
Question
What your are suggesting i guess is that there is an invisible coup d'etat' which has occured in the united states?
There is a group of eighteen or twenty people running this country. They have not been elected the elected people are only figureheads for theese guys who have a alot more power than even the president

The Tools of the Trade

If you look around on boards, you will notice stuff like what is common here... not a skeptic, but someone who will discalim EVERYTHING with links to mass media-based debunking information. If it's in the media, it's gotta be true, right? So, no... there are no aliens, and there is no NWO, and Crop circles aren't real... the best one is "It has already been debunked! (**link**)". Not saying that every post like this is NSA, but in a 'round-about' way it is. NSA not only relies on in-house posters and such, but they rely upon mass-media TV and News to help support unwitting skeptics, and to help form more and more skepticism. It works.

-----
Eavesdropping and Information gathering

My friend and I have been aware of this fact for years. When we chat, we don't even bother using l33tsp34k anymore, because they know and have it programmed in, as well as any possible misspellings and typos. They get alot of crap and have 'context' programs that compare info for validation. Once this info is validated, the entire text or conversation is 'hard copied' for review by a board of specialists. I found all this out on accident, and cannot find the link for it... I'd assume it has been removed by now and the person responsible has been "disciplined"... (was a clandistine site with docs and info on NSA stuff... came out about a year or so ago... was by NSA guy who was trying to register himself(?) so that if he disappeared there would still be record and all...)

-----
Controlling the media

I get attacks every once in awhile (hence my thread "Keelynet down?". I get hit like this everytime I go on a scouting binge for alternative energy sites, and have been blocked from Tom Bearden's site(s), as well as ATS, and alot others. Also, I will notice alot more info going out during these times than normal, and have noticed stuff like my links not being moveable (cannot move, file is currently being used) during these times... it was an idea I had to see if I was being scanned since bookmarks are a good indicator of someone's intentions, and naturally an agency spying on your pute would definitly want your bookmark lists. On my newer, faster pute I cannot do this, and especially with broadband, so I just watch for clues like DOS and 404's then ask friend to access site and link me, which usually(not always) cuts the crap (not sure why though...). Read my post.

-----
Anyways, that is about all I have on this... this knowledge is why I try to read as little as possible from mainstream media and just hypothesize stuff myself and discuss with other friends (some being people on ATS) to work out the wrinkles. Keeps my head from getting filled with garbage like the onslaught of info on aliens... so many stories, so many contradictions. Everything you want to know is readily accessible from your own head, you just have to know how to get it, especially in the case of religion (another thing being utilized for the purpose of population control). Call me crazy or whatever, but if people would take a month off from any information input (including religion), they would know this as well. I have my suspicions that Jesus disappeared into the desert for exactly that reason.

More people fear what is happening, than what is actually happening.

I don't understand why everyone makes a big fuss over the NSA. It is the computer corporations who pose more of a threat (as far as monitoring is concerned) than any three letter agency.

Take Microsoft for example. All they have to do is implant monitoring devices within every computer system they sell, and boom! Everyone with that software is being monitored continuously! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

Mr. M

Originally posted by billybob
great post. the idea that a huge army of these people is needed is a red herring. a good meme loosed into the mass mind is worth three thousand drill sargeants shouting at the top of their lungs. people have no idea how impressionable their minds are.
constant vigilance is required to keep your own mind.
the group mind is the one 'they' are concerned about.
how do revolutions(hmmm? cycles.) start? seemingly spontaneously, but in reality a certain meme reaches critical mass within the group mind. this is the science of herding the masses. diffusing memes.
p.s. OF COURSE they are HERE.

excellent perspectives, billybob. I also believe in the prospect of a collective mind, and that is precisely what is the main target in these information espionage operation. never forget what one of Bush's cronies said about the conversion of warfare from conventional to information warfare. I just hope that critical mass will be reached as quickly as possible. this threat to humanity has to stop.

Originally posted by watcher of the skies
from valdamaar valerians the matrix
an interview with a cia employee

Dont kid your self . this country is controlled by the pentagon. all major decisions are made by the military.
The cia 's just the whipping boy. NSA are the ones that have the hit teams.Look into there records-you wont find a thing. Look into their budget - you cant.
The cia is just a figurehead, but as far as intelligence goes,the nsa's far superior to them-far in advance in the black arts. the cia gets blamed for what the nsa does.nsa is for more vicious and far more accomplished in its operations. The american people are kept in ignorance of this- they should be ,too. What your saying is that the military is more dangerous to our democracy than the cia or other intelligence groups?
The cia gathers the information but the military heads the show.
Question
What your are suggesting i guess is that there is an invisible coup d'etat' which has occured in the united states?
There is a group of eighteen or twenty people running this country. They have not been elected the elected people are only figureheads for theese guys who have a alot more power than even the president

Thanks for sharing that info. That goes along the lines using the CIA as a patsy, which is something I think I also addressed in this thread. If I hadn't, then I should have as that is a very important tactic to understand. It IS the NSA calling all of the shots, as the NSA is the head of this snake, metaphorically speaking.

Originally posted by Earthscum

If you look around on boards, you will notice stuff like what is common here... not a skeptic, but someone who will disclaim EVERYTHING with links to mass media-based debunking information. If it's in the media, it's gotta be true, right? So, no... there are no aliens, and there is no NWO, and Crop circles aren't real... the best one is "It has already been debunked! (**link**)". Not saying that every post like this is NSA, but in a 'round-about' way it is. NSA not only relies on in-house posters and such, but they rely upon mass-media TV and News to help support unwitting skeptics, and to help form more and more skepticism. It works.

-----
Eavesdropping and Information gathering

My friend and I have been aware of this fact for years. When we chat, we don't even bother using l33tsp34k anymore, because they know and have it programmed in, as well as any possible misspellings and typos. They get alot of crap and have 'context' programs that compare info for validation. Once this info is validated, the entire text or conversation is 'hard copied' for review by a board of specialists. I found all this out on accident, and cannot find the link for it... I'd assume it has been removed by now and the person responsible has been "disciplined"... (was a clandistine site with docs and info on NSA stuff... came out about a year or so ago... was by NSA guy who was trying to register himself(?) so that if he disappeared there would still be record and all...)

-----
Controlling the media

I get attacks every once in awhile (hence my thread "Keelynet down?". I get hit like this everytime I go on a scouting binge for alternative energy sites, and have been blocked from Tom Bearden's site(s), as well as ATS, and alot others. Also, I will notice alot more info going out during these times than normal, and have noticed stuff like my links not being moveable (cannot move, file is currently being used) during these times... it was an idea I had to see if I was being scanned since bookmarks are a good indicator of someone's intentions, and naturally an agency spying on your pute would definitly want your bookmark lists. On my newer, faster pute I cannot do this, and especially with broadband, so I just watch for clues like DOS and 404's then ask friend to access site and link me, which usually(not always) cuts the crap (not sure why though...). Read my post.

-----
Anyways, that is about all I have on this... this knowledge is why I try to read as little as possible from mainstream media and just hypothesize stuff myself and discuss with other friends (some being people on ATS) to work out the wrinkles. Keeps my head from getting filled with garbage like the onslaught of info on aliens... so many stories, so many contradictions. Everything you want to know is readily accessible from your own head, you just have to know how to get it, especially in the case of religion (another thing being utilized for the purpose of population control). Call me crazy or whatever, but if people would take a month off from any information input (including religion), they would know this as well. I have my suspicions that Jesus disappeared into the desert for exactly that reason.

Wow. What an impressive post. Thank you for reaffirming my suspicions, my friend. All of those points are excellent and quite accurate. You should also take note of who DOESN'T respond to this thread as well as who said things that are of a questionable nature (not the first reply; that's understandable skepticism). You'll find that the debunkers don't even waste time on this one because they know we will give them stiff opposition. I have noticed that same pattern that you speak of with people they rely on for disinformation, where they debunk it and provide mainstream media links which are usually censored to the point of inaccuracy. In the US, there is no law that dictates whether or not news should be accurate. They CAN and DO legally make it up / edit the truths.

Thanks for sharing your info on eavesdropping. I knew l33tsp3ak has been decoded because I feel that the NSA has infiltrated, if not created, the hacker/phreaker community or at least the more annoying sides of it. But the context software... wowo... that's not a bad piece of engineering, there, until it's in the hands of the NSA. What a bunch of turds.

Those attacks are quite annoying, if not successful. If you have a static IP, I would strongly urge you to pursue a dynamic one so that you can avoid these nuisances. I have also faced similar DDos attacks, and even get portscanned (a lot more now than before) by my own servers.

I also agree with you that the buck stops in our mind. The media presents the information, but it is up to us to make the decisions to think upon the matter or to just accept the spoon-fed information like a bunch of senile old farts. I think the majority of the general population has succumbed into the latter, unfortunately, otherwise the media would have gone off on a few tangents on the inaccuracies surrounding the 911 story. Well, that can still happen right? It's also important to be able to decode disinformation, as you hinted towards with your mention of the hordes of alien stories. A lot of them are hooey, but surely not all of them.

Originally posted by StarChild

posted on 3/17/2004 at 01:16
I don't understand why everyone makes a big fuss over the NSA. It is the computer corporations who pose more of a threat (as far as monitoring is concerned) than any three letter agency.

Take Microsoft for example. All they have to do is implant monitoring devices within every computer system they sell, and boom! Everyone with that software is being monitored continuously! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

The NSA is the authority on information gathering in the US. Microsoft is legally binded to incorporate backdoors into their operating systems software to allow for easy access by NSA espionage agents. That's why they have all of that monitoring technology... not because of corporate interests, but because of contracts with the NSA. Furthermore, a lot of those 'critical' security patches are to improve the functionality of those backdoors, I believe. Since the NSA also uses hackers, don't you think it was rather interesting that hackers (probably disgruntled exemployees) had such an easy time giving Microsoft and MS-based business networks downtime with Blaster and worms virii? Think about that one and how that answers both of your questions on the matter. Who has the most to gain from data mining and backdoors into PC's? Microsoft and their customer base or the NSA?

I'm more familiar with the NSA than you might think. However, I am not very familiar with the operations of major computer corporations. That is why my suspicion is raised against them, for the simple fact that I don't know as much about them as I do about NSA.

It is in my opinion logical to conclude that without the Microsofts, Apples, Hewlett Packards, IBMs, and so on, having the ability to implant privacy invading devices, that you wouldn't have this problem addressed in this thread. Right? Right.

Mr. M

"The NSA is the authority on information gathering in the US. Microsoft is legally binded to incorporate backdoors into their operating systems software to allow for easy access by NSA espionage agents. That's why they have all of that monitoring technology... not because of corporate interests, but because of contracts with the NSA. Furthermore, a lot of those 'critical' security patches are to improve the functionality of those backdoors, I believe. Since the NSA also uses hackers, don't you think it was rather interesting that hackers (probably disgruntled exemployees) had such an easy time giving Microsoft and MS-based business networks downtime with Blaster and worms virii? Think about that one and how that answers both of your questions on the matter. Who has the most to gain from data mining and backdoors into PC's? Microsoft and their customer base or the NSA?"

Do you have some actual proof of this, or are you just spewing forth conspiricy theory garbage?

Those people who work with the NSA (and you obviously are not one of them) understand that the NSA, for the most part, consists of loyal US citizens defending the Constitution and the American way of life. You obviously don't understand the sacrafices alot of these people make to keep your way of life intact. I'm sorry if that sounds corny or old-fashioned, but it is the simple truth.

If I were a paranoid consiricy theorist, I might conjecture that the purpose of your post was simply to ilicit a response from people who had real and valid information about NSA activities, in an effort to collect such information. Maybe you are hostile agent, trying to gather information about real NSA activities and capabilities. Or....maybe you WORK for the NSA, and this is all a ruse in an effort to find leaks within the NSA itself! (LOL) But since I am not, I will not bother to debunk your bunk.

If you don't mind, I'm not going to waste my time worrying about the NSA and it's activities right now. BTW, I'm way more inclined to be concerned about people who use terms like "collective mind" and "population control".....

[Edited on 17-3-2004 by Pyros]