PROOF: Time is an ILLUSION!

I am getting fed up with having to explain this to everyone individually in a U2U. So I'm just gonna post this. Before you reply and bitch about what's wrong with this, and waste my "time" and yours, spend a little time THINKING about what I will write here. Honestly, THINK. Use your mind. Let's leave God out of this one please, I am tired of arguing about that.

My personal request: If your reason for rejecting this proof is because you BELIEVE in God and you BELIEVE time exists, you should remember that this proof has nothing to do with your personal belief or perception. We ALL experience time, and we ALL see it go from past into the future. The whole POINT of this proof is to demonstrate that it is an ILLUSION and our perception of it is WRONG. I know your wise grandmother will disagree with me, so don't use that excuse either. Thank You.

And now, in my NEXT POST IN THIS THREAD, I will write the proof. If you see only one post (this one), that means I am still writing. I want it to be separate to make sure it is CLEAR to those who cannot tell one text from another.

First, let's assume time DOES exist, since we can all observe it so well, and then we will get to our conclusion that in fact, it does NOT exist.

If time exists, let's see what we know about time. It goes from the FUTURE into the PAST as we observe motion around our universe. Everything jumps from "could be" to "was", and there is no actual moment called the "Present", from our observable time. In fact what we call the present is simply our immediate past, our immediate memory of what had just occured. We do observe that time may slow down, and we have theories that we can even STOP it if we reach light speed. NONE OF THAT CONTRADICTS MY PROOF! Now remember, even if you have a time machine, this proof still absolutely HOLDS and no time machine can violate it.
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How old is the universe? Well our current universe is shaped out of energy, which might not be so long ago (Big Bang, whatever it was that shaped this universe). So how old is the energy then? It is exactly INFINITY years old (remember, we're assuming time exists for now). Why has it been around forever? Simple...

You can never get SOMETHING out of NOTHING. If there was ever NOTHING, there would ALWAYS be NOTHING. Because there is SOMETHING, that means there has always been SOMETHING. Don't forget, NOTHING means NOTHING/ZILCH/ZERO/NADA/BLANK, and doesn't mean a LITTLE BIT OF SOMETHING! Don't trip up on the words please.

Now we know that energy (out of which everything is formed) has been around forever. But then how does time not exist you ask? Well, because if time exists, then WE cannot exists, and in fact NOTHING would ever exist! Why? Simple... (here's the logical part, put on your thinking hats!)

If everything has been around forever, that means we have eternity behind us in the past, and eternity in front of us in the future. But we can NEVER have eternity behind us in the PAST, because that means we had to go through eternity to get WHERE WE ARE NOW. There's only one problem with that. WE CAN NEVER go through eternity. Eternity, simply means FOREVER. It means NEVER ENDS. That's right, we would first have to wait FOREVER before we could reach ANY TIME PERIOD in order to have "eternity" behind us. Because no matter what time period you are in, there will ALWAYS be eternity in the past, since we already know that energy had no beginning.

Therefore, before ANYTHING would ever be formed out of energy, energy would first WAIT FOREVER (NEVER STOP WAITING) before shaping ANYTHING. That's right, this means nothing could ever exist, as long as there is infinity of time behind it in the past. There CANNOT BE infinity of time behind us in the past, we can only wait a FINITE amount of time before being shaped out of energy or being located at ANY time period, hence existing.

What does it all mean? It all means that time doesn't exist.

So let's wrap it up...

If time exists, then we know for a FACT that energy is eternal.
If energy is eternal, we must have eternity behind us in the past.
But we cannot have eternity behind us, because we can never GO THROUGH eternity to get where we are.
Because eternity means NEVER ENDS, so we'd STILL BE WAITING before being created out of energy.
By we I mean ANYTHING, so NOTHING would ever exist, it'd first have to wait eternity before it can be shaped.

As you can see, time cannot exist. If it does, nothing else can ever exist. There is absolutely NO TRICK in what I just said, and I am beind absolutely serious.

Why do we have the perception that time exists? That's a good question.. and is not easily answered. However, it is also true that perception CAN be an illusion, and in ou reality usually is. What we PERCEIVE has NOTHING to do with what IS. We cannot perceive ultraviolet light, but our instruments prove it exists. We CAN perceive a hologram that may appear real and tangible, but we KNOW is not. So once again, perception is NOT something to rely upon for "reality check". Our senses are nothing but translators, they detect various inputs and variously present these inputs to our minds. However, the way the information is PRESENTED in our head does NOT imply that this is what really IS.

[Edited on 25-2-2004 by lilblam]

Confusing, but interesting topic. Awesome post lilblam.

I came up with this one night before I went to sleep. Interesting what you can think of when your brain is in a near-alpha state isn't it? I woke up the next morning and wrote it down, it's almost an epiphany. I was very confused and almost went into denial after that... almost. Next step was excitement.. and then I realised I could never tell anyone as I'd be laughed at. So I told everyone. I was laughed at
I could care less, so I'm still telling people. The Wright Brothers were laughed at also. So?

thanks. a flawless explanation. i just wish i knew what causes us to perceive it.

Here's my theory:

IMHO:
Time is a product of the beginning.
The beginning measures itself as from "here to there."
We, as human's, have defined time as past,present, and future.
We have further defined this as centuries, decades,
years, months, weeks, hours, minutes, seconds, etc.
Time exists as a construction of our mentality.

To me, theoretically and perhaps philosophically, there is no Time. All things exist simultaneously. All events occur at once. Example: As I am writing this and as its being written it's already written; it already exists. I am merely bringing 'it' to form.
Our understanding of Time allows us to define our reality of relativity, where time is experienced as a movement, a flow, rather than a constant mechanism. In truth, it is 'we' who are moving, not time. Time has no movement, for there is only One Moment.....now.
Everything thats ever happened, and is going to happen, is happening now. The ability to observe it happening merely depends on our point of view, defined as: our place in space. If one was God and in God's place, one would see it All --- right now.

Einstein theorized that it wasn't Time which was moving, but that he was moving through space at a given rate, all he had to do was change the amount of space between objects or change the rate of speed with which he moved through space from one object to another, to alter Time.




regards
seekerof

I will post the reasons for WHY we perceive time, etc in a different thread, I want this one (well I hope) to stick to the proof, and see if people understand it. Also, I will make a thread later about Love, something else I feel I need to explain logically. Before you scream at me that Love is illogical, wait till my POST! You have no idea what I'm going to post yet, so stick to my proof in this thread please!

I realise the tendency for people to veer off the subject on threads, but this is just VERY important for people to see.

This is ONE of many so called "revalations" that people will soon see. I will write others at different points in "time", systematically. I, unlike TRAINEDFORTHIS, do NOT ask for ANY belief or FAITH or claim anything.

I DO ask that you USE your own mind, and THINK! Is that so much to ask for? Everyone KNOWS this, it is simple, and I can explain this proof to a 5 year old. The illusion is so SUBTLE yet so "IN YOUR FACE" that this simple proof goes RIGHT over your head, until you actually SEE it written down.

There are many more things if similar nature that for some reason go right over people's heads, because there is a power out there that really doesn't want you to use your minds. The power prefers you stick to religions, faith, belief, and guesses. Your mind is the most powerful tool you have, use it.

How would you explain gravitational time dilation experiements such as the Scout Rocket Experiment if time is an illusion?

hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...

In such lilblam, my theory seems to be interesting, especially when connected to this:

"New Theory of Time Rattles Halls of Science"
Link:
www.thetruthseekers.com...



regards
seekerof

[Edited on 17-1-2004 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by Seekerof
Here's my theory:

IMHO:
Time is a product of the beginning.
The beginning measures itself as from "here to there."
We, as human's, have defined time as past,present, and future.
We have further defined this as centuries, decades,
years, months, weeks, hours, minutes, seconds, etc.
Time exists as a construction of our mentality.

To me, theoretically and perhaps philosophically, there is no Time. All things exist simultaneously. All events occur at once. Example: As I am writing this and as its being written it's already written; it already exists. I am merely bringing 'it' to form.
Our understanding of Time allows us to define our reality of relativity, where time is experienced as a movement, a flow, rather than a constant mechanism. In truth, it is 'we' who are moving, not time. Time has no movement, for there is only One Moment.....now.
Everything thats ever happened, and is going to happen, is happening now. The ability to observe it happening merely depends on our point of view, defined as: our place in space. If one was God and in God's place, one would see it All --- right now.

Einstein theorized that it wasn't Time which was moving, but that he was moving through space at a given rate, all he had to do was change the amount of space between objects or change the rate of speed with which he moved through space from one object to another, to alter Time.




regards
seekerof

Very interesting! Something else you should know, is that Spirituality has always promoted that time doesn't exist. Except it asked you to take it on faith. I don't! I heard this theory/idea before, but couldn't understand it. It made absolutely no sense. Then I figured it out myself. No it doesn't HAVE to not make sense to anyone, there is sense in it now, there's logic!

Spirituality/Religion have many truths in them. The sad part is that they are often mixed in with LIES which are now called lie sandwiches. The hard part is separating the lies from the truths. It is hard to believe ALL lies, so truths are inevitably subtly ingrained in those lies. Let's not believe everything we read/see/hear. It is always possible to discern the truth, but it is rarely easy. Those who think they "get it" because of their faith or what not, simply fell for the trap.

Originally posted by DavviGuns
How would you explain gravitational time dilation experiements such as the Scout Rocket Experiment if time is an illusion?

hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...

Yes time would be perceived to (possibly, if the experiment holds true) run more slowly if it is inside a gravitational field. We can even have formulas that show it or whatever. But does what I wrote above not make sense to you? At all? I already said that even having a time machine that really DOES go through time does not contradict my proof. You can slow it down/move back and forth/skip parts... but you can NEVER go through infinity of time. You'd have to skip an infinity to get to where we are now, and the time machine would still be flying non-stop and would never reach any time period.

But also, yes it is possible to travel through "time", at least in order to have a focus point. So something that happened in some location at some point in time from our perspective, doesn't mean it isn't always happening like SeekerOf said. It just means our perspective is focused in an out-of-context way.

We are like a radio, focused on ONE station, when there are 250 other stations playing simultaneously. We can only be focused on ONE at a time, but they are ALL playing at the same time. Not the best analogy, but it does make sense right?

There is an interesting article in the Scientific American this month, about time...sort of. The article began to be beyond me but I think simply, the theory the article was explaining explained away a sort of continuous time. I've heard a few times being said that linear time is an illusion.

So as time as an illusion, are we seperate entities or a whole experiencing whatever is going on here on different fronts?

Time doesn't exist, it's an abstract concept and has no physical property. It's a measure between changes.

This may seem stupid and I may not have the intelligence to comprehend this thread but here's my two cents on it anyway:

So if energy has been around for eternity, you cannot measure time when energy has been around an infinite number of units? That still doesn't explain how we can see energy changing states over time all around us right here on Earth. Is that not what time really is but a measure of the way energy changes over time? If we do have time, and time is infinite (as you well illustrate nothing can exist if we have infinite time behind us) who's to say that we are not just at some point in the infinite? I don't see how that point is so illogical. Yes there is inifinte time behind us, but we are merely the present state of energy in its infinite life.

Energy has been around forever, I agree. But it is always changing shape/texture/whatever else we cannot perceive. Can't you just believe in the entirety of it? We have eternity behind us, but that is just because there was no beginning. We can measure time with the way energy changes over its units of length. The fact that there was no beginning, IMO, is trivial.

I look forward to your enlightenment.

Time is uni-directional. It only moves forward. Therefore there must be a beginning. The proof is entrophy. A reverse would require the addition of energy to obtain the former higher energy states. As you stated you cannot get something out of nothing.

But that there is a begining does not mean there needs to be an end.

Infinity lies in our future, not our past.

Time may not exist, but its the best way to characterize and measure moments upon this planet given how life works. In some ways, time is very real. At least to the living.

It's true that time does not exist.

Time is just a man made system to just how long it takes for a moving object to reach it's destination point.

Since basically the whole world is synchronized and using time, we can judge how long we are going to take to do certain things in the amount of "hours, minutes, seconds"...."time" allocated.

but truely time does not exist.

Time is manmade to compartment-mentalize his life.

Nuff Said.

well if u consider string theory maybe the pieces of energy before "the beginning" were very few and were vibrating in such a way as to create nothingness as in lack of matter, and "the beginning" refers to when matter was formed out of the energy, and "time" in this density of energy which is matter, is something which needs to be measured to keep track of cosmic cycles, agricultural cycles, weather cycles, etc. yes phislosophically time does not exist so why not just go kill yourself then because nothing can possibly matter if u have all the time ahead of u and before u! sadly u don't have an eternity infront of u, u have until the end of your lifetime in the matter state, and the scientific manner of society has us recording everyone's age. Time is a record basically, and u onl have as much time here on earth as your earth human body will stay alive for and if we keep going on forever i sure hope i never have another lifetime of being aware it's torturous i'm goign to bed

time is an illusion, thru quantam physics we have found that many laws once etched in stone are false,-- the speed of light can be altered, the universe is finite, not infinite, etc. Time is irrelevant when there is eternity..