Marine ordered to kill women and children

reply to post by the titor experience

we reigned supreme from that point on. those bombs kept the peace and gave second thoughts to any other little punk nation thinking of attacking us or our allies. I wonder how fast Iran would drop to their knees if they wer just given a small reminder of what we are capable of instead we chip away a little at a time giving up American lives in trade for theirs.
This is my point and listen good.

I WOULD RATHER ONE HUNDRED ENEMY CIVILIANS DIED IN A MASSIVE BOMBING CAMPAIGN THAN ONE MORE AMERICAN CIVILIAN GETS HIS HEAD CUT OFF ON VIDEO BY THOSE ANIMALS.

is that clear enough?

reply to post by infiltr8u


Again, i make the rational and logical point that Eisenhower, who had first hand knowledge of Japans status, knew better than you as to whether the bomb needed to be dropped. Your need to be rather aggressive in your response says a lot - the more emotional attachment people have to their opinion more often than not the less evidence they have for it.

It is nice to know that not all Americans are overweight gun owning red necks who think murder is ok if it is "for the USA".......and i am aware there are many of there here on ATS......it is just a shame, just like here in Australia, so many of you have eaten up the manufactured fear the media wants you to digest.

Originally posted by infiltr8u
reply to post by the titor experience

 

we reigned supreme from that point on. those bombs kept the peace and gave second thoughts to any other little punk nation thinking of attacking us or our allies. I wonder how fast Iran would drop to their knees if they wer just given a small reminder of what we are capable of instead we chip away a little at a time giving up American lives in trade for theirs.
This is my point and listen good.

I WOULD RATHER ONE HUNDRED ENEMY CIVILIANS DIED IN A MASSIVE BOMBING CAMPAIGN THAN ONE MORE AMERICAN CIVILIAN GETS HIS HEAD CUT OFF ON VIDEO BY THOSE ANIMALS.

is that clear enough?

You rational......is the exact reason that patriotism and nationalism are going to fall one day. I do not belong to the Australian Race, and you do not belong to the American or Caucasian race - you and me both belong to the human race......and the death of any innocent is as tragic as another.

To all the Americans on here who want to know why so many people are against your America - it is because your country promotes in a lot of ways the selfish, arrogant and backwards view which the above quote illustrates. An American life is no more valuable than any other.

I am done here at ATS, so I do not care if I am warned or banned. The same so called "patriotic" Marine in Iraq will fire on you and your family here in America when given the order too during martial law. Buy ammunition+guns+stockpile gold and prepare for open warfare because it is coming folks!



that is all.
catchphraseneeded

Originally posted by infiltr8u


I WOULD RATHER ONE HUNDRED ENEMY CIVILIANS DIED IN A MASSIVE BOMBING CAMPAIGN THAN ONE MORE AMERICAN CIVILIAN GETS HIS HEAD CUT OFF ON VIDEO BY THOSE ANIMALS.

is that clear enough?

Yep that clear, It clearly shows how crazy you really are.

What the hell is an enemy civilian anyway?

reply to post by dgtempe




Purposely killing a child or any other innocent civilian by a soldier is never acceptable and is never ok, accidents happen and so called collateral damage takes place but to do it on purpose is an entirely different story.

The "I was just following orders" excuse doesnt fly anymore, just ask some of the Nazis that ran the concentration camps, wait you cant because they were executed.
Not only is a soldier/marine not supposed to follow an illegal order, he is also required to report such order and if it was carried out by him or anyone else.

Anyway, did I read a post correctly? A post where dgtemp admits that her husband killed a baby in a crib because he was ordered to and then she insists he isnt a murderer?
If I did indeed read that post correctly and if he did kill a baby in a crib, he is most certainly a murderer and should've been charged with murder and gone to trial.
In fact, he can still be and should be tried for that crime any and all baby killers should recieve the death penalty by default.

[edit on 9/2/2007 by Kr0n0s]

Originally posted by infiltr8u
can you imagine if we had to fight the Germans or Japaese with todays generation???

I didn't realise that 'Al-Qaeda'/'The Insurgency'/Whoever you choose to be your phantom enemy today, were patrolling the North Atlantic with subs, or had invaded Poland with a tangible army, or had launched their entire Pacific fleet to attack some islands in the middle of the Pacific.

reply to post by dgtempe


DG, you're the godess of humanity on ATS. Some of these rednecks here just makes my blood boil. Have letting it cool for 20 minutes before I post this tho.

I just can't get into my stupid cleancut scandinavian head how a nation can glorify, yes herorize any actions of war, be it collateral damage or plain evil.

We all know how it's gone with the vets from Nam (the UNA-bomber) and still on these board we see members advocating for the ultimate surge from Yemen to Samarkand. 5-10 million soldiers might be needed for a campaign like that. How can any responsible person whether a citizen or an official of government even THINK about such a thing?

I'm sorry I've been away for awhile, vacationing in my native Denmark, so I have to get used to the nature of some of the topics and the tone of certain members.

Btw, Denmark redrew its last troops from Iraq this summer. And though only a couple of thousand soldiers have been involved, tragedy has stung more than a handful of families there because of my goverment's participation in illegal warfare. At least one familly was completely exterminated by this guy, head of the family who had seen too much. Random killings have occured within a dozen families because of war trauma.

Oh, I just hate wars sooo much

It has been my experience (10 years of military service in the U.S. Armed Forces) that you can refuse an illegal, unjust, or immoral order....just be prepared for the consequences!!

Originally posted by KhieuSamphan
I didn't realise that 'Al-Qaeda'/'The Insurgency'/Whoever you choose to be your phantom enemy today, were patrolling the North Atlantic with subs, or had invaded Poland with a tangible army, or had launched their entire Pacific fleet to attack some islands in the middle of the Pacific.

no, they're just slicing Americans heads of slowly with a kitchen knife. and they're blowing themselves up in the middle of large innocent crowds, and they're hijacking planes and crashing them into tall buildings...etc...maybe thats not a good enough reason for you to defend our country but for me, and there is many like me, it is. you get a big dooowwwnnn

It's really hard to say what happened on that day when the marines killed 24 people. It would be fair to say that things should have been handeled another way. The actions that happened that day cannot be held against the entire military.

I feel for the marines involved in the incedent and the Iraqi's whos lives were effected.

Originally posted by infiltr8u
no, they're just slicing Americans heads of slowly with a kitchen knife. and they're blowing themselves up in the middle of large innocent crowds, and they're hijacking planes and crashing them into tall buildings...etc...maybe thats not a good enough reason for you to defend our country but for me, and there is many like me, it is. you get a big

dooowwwnnn

So, killing women and children in a nation thousands of miles away from your homeland constitutes defending your country!


[edit on 3-9-2007 by KhieuSamphan]

i have not bothered to read the whole lot on here so forgive me if this has already been mentioned.

firstly i noticed someone stating about the mind state of the soldiers out there, “These boys are no longer who they once were and never will be. With the isolation and death they have been exposed to they no longer see these people as women and children or people period.” then why did he report back to his CO that there were women and kids in this building, seems like he knew who he was shooting.

also

when you join the military you have to swear an oath,

"I,____________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God"

from the UMJC

The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) 809[890].ART.90 (20), makes it clear that military personnel need to obey the "lawful command of his superior officer," 891.ART.91 (2), the "lawful order of a warrant officer", 892.ART.92 (1) the "lawful general order", 892.ART.92 (2) "lawful order". In each case, military personnel have an obligation and a duty to only obey Lawful orders and indeed have an obligation to disobey Unlawful orders, including orders by the president that do not comply with the UCMJ. The moral and legal obligation is to the U.S. Constitution and not to those who would issue unlawful orders, especially if those orders are in direct violation of the Constitution and the UCMJ.

Well, if anyone saw 60minutes last night, the guy who gave the order was interviewed. I tell you, it was jaw-dropping, even the interviewer, Scott Pelley, couldn't believe how inhumane and callous this guy was; he was left speechless at times. The guy admitted to shooting Iraqis in the back when they were trying to flee the soldiers. He admitted to going into several houses, seeing UNARMED women and children and killing them. The guy implicated himself about as much as a human being could, by his testimony, but he doesn't think he did anything wrong. It was sickening. I'm very upset that the soldiers got off with no guilt. THey had a duty to disobey this unlawful and inhumane command.
It was very clear, in watching the interview, that the commanding officer was completely in the wrong.

Originally posted by the titor experience


It is nice to know that not all Americans are overweight gun owning red necks who think murder is ok if it is "for the USA".......and i am aware there are many of there here on ATS......it is just a shame, just like here in Australia, so many of you have eaten up the manufactured fear the media wants you to digest.

Not all, not many, but there are enough fitting this description to be very dangerous to society.

OK...don't know if this has been said already or not, too lazy to read the whole thread, but has anyone considered the possibility that the Marine did not receive these monstrous orders but lied and said he did just to cover his ass?

Originally posted by island_race


when you join the military you have to swear an oath,

"I,____________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God"

So help them God. But they need to be DE-PROGRAMMED when they return after combat. Otherwise, we have mentally unbalanced people walking around, shell shocked, making others miserable. I know first hand. I live with one. THIS is the key here. They need immediate help upon their return from combat.
They should all be tested mentally BEFORE sending them to fight, and when they return, by gosh, they should ALL be evaluated and TREATED- and it should be mandatory.
Most nuts dont know they're nuts- and i say this with respect because my husband deserves respect as a Marine, but its sad to see how his life has changed- and he refuses to get help. Therefore it should be mandatory.

Originally posted by KhieuSamphan
So, killing women and children in a nation thousands of miles away from your homeland constitutes defending your country?

no,
killing terorist? yes.
is there civilian collateral damages? yes, in every war.

you people have got to wake up and take off the gloves! THIS IS A WAR!
i myself do not want to be muslim..do you?

[edit on 3-9-2007 by infiltr8u]

Originally posted by island_race

firstly i noticed someone stating about the mind state of the soldiers out there, “These boys are no longer who they once were and never will be. With the isolation and death they have been exposed to they no longer see these people as women and children or people period.” then why did he report back to his CO that there were women and kids in this building, seems like he knew who he was shooting.

Based off of this it sounds like their may have been some confusion. If he was reporting to someone that there was women and children present then he wanted someone to be aware of the fact. Now what you have to wonder is what was reported back to him. Was he given the ok to fire upon the buildings? If he wasn't then wouldn't he be going on trial not following a direct order?

Originally posted by forestlady
Well, if anyone saw 60minutes last night, the guy who gave the order was interviewed. I tell you, it was jaw-dropping, even the interviewer, Scott Pelley, couldn't believe how inhumane and callous this guy was; he was left speechless at times. The guy admitted to shooting Iraqis in the back when they were trying to flee the soldiers. He admitted to going into several houses, seeing UNARMED women and children and killing them. The guy implicated himself about as much as a human being could, by his testimony, but he doesn't think he did anything wrong. It was sickening. I'm very upset that the soldiers got off with no guilt. THey had a duty to disobey this unlawful and inhumane command.
It was very clear, in watching the interview, that the commanding officer was completely in the wrong.

At this point I wouldn't be suprised if the guy is going to go for an insanity defence. If that case this report would go well because he could win the hearts and minds of the American people later down the line by saying the military did this to him. With the multiple tours under his belt and the unpopularity of this war it could work out well. How can the military announce to the American people that they are going to give the death penalty to a marine who was driven to insanity through this war? It can't and it shouldn't.