To 9-11 Debunkers

This website pretty much says it all:

On September 11, 1990, exactly 11 years to the day that Flight 11 flew into one of the Twin Towers on September 11, 2001, George H. W. Bush delivered this peculiar address before Congress on the eve of the first Gulf War:

"A new partnership of nations has begun, and we stand today at a unique and extraordinary moment. The crisis in the Persian Gulf, as grave as it is, also offers a rare opportunity to move toward a historic period of cooperation. Out of these troubled times, our fifth objective-- a new world order-- can emerge: A new era-- freer from the threat of terror, stronger in the pursuit of justice and more secure in the quest for peace. An era in which the nations of the world, east and west, north and south, can prosper and live in harmony."

"A hundred generations have searched for the elusive path to peace, while a thousand wars waged across the span of human endeavor, and today that new world is struggling to be born. A world quite different from the one we've known. A world where the rule of law supplants the rule of the jungle. A world in which nations recognize the shared responsibility for freedom and justice. A world where the strong recognize the rights of the week." SOURCE

The evidence is overwhelming... Take a look at the Video Archives and Black Ops sections of this site.

Mod Edit: External Source Tags – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 30/8/2007 by Mirthful Me]

This is Eyewitness account of a missile on September 11th:

VIDEO

The evidence of what is overwhelming exactly?

I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at. Are you saying H.W. Bush knew 9/11 would happen? Are you saying that this means that our government had nothing to do with 9/11?

Well, it's pretty obvious that our government knew exactly what was going to happen, even planned it. The evidence is all right there within the site.

The above quote by G.H.W. Bush is selfexplanitory...

Coincidence? I think not, especially when one understands that the powers pushing this New World Order seem to be followers of secret and ancient mystery schools (Egyptian, Babylonian,etc.), of which, the numerology of Pythagoras is of major importance. The fact remains that certain numbers (eleven) and certain dates (9-11) have special significance to these people.

What appear to be the ramblings of a madman above, actually have a long historical tradition that can be traced back to the Bavarian Illuminati, freemasonry, and their myriad of offshoots (Skull and Bones, Knights of Malta, Nazis, Communists, etc.). This phrase ('New World Order') which can be found on our dollar bill in Latin, bares huge similarities to the language used by the Nazis and their 'Third Reich' (Bush's 'fifth objective'), and the 'Communist Revolution' rhetoric of the early 20th Century.

That there is such a thing as a cabal of power brokers that control world events from behind the scenes has been detailed several times this century by credible sources. Professor Caroll Quigley was Bill Clinton's mentor at Georgetown University. President Clinton has publicly paid homage to the influence Professor Quigley had on his life. In Quigley's magnum opus Tragedy and Hope (1966), he states: [url=What appear to be the ramblings of a madman above, actually have a long historical tradition that can be traced back to the Bavarian Illuminati, freemasonry, and their myriad of offshoots (Skull and Bones, Knights of Malta, Nazis, Communists, etc.). This phrase ('New World Order') which can be found on our dollar bill in Latin, bares huge similarities to the language used by the Nazis and their 'Third Reich' (Bush's 'fifth objective'), and the 'Communist Revolution' rhetoric of the early 20th Century. Continued at Source

Mod Edit: External Source Tags – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 30/8/2007 by Mirthful Me]

"I intend to strike my own country on 9/11 as an anniversary present for my dad who had a vision about the New World Order he mentioned exactly 11 years ago."-George W. Bush

You got it.... But he didn't do it for his Daddy. I think that PNAC had a little more to do with motive. Reality is often stranger than fiction. Did you look at the evidence?? 9-11 was most definately an inside job. The evidence is there, will you look at it. I don't blame it on Bush... He's just their evil shill.

Wait... Did Hitler really murder all of those Jews? Did he really burn down his own Reichstag? This is crazy conspiracy talk. The naivete of the public is amazing, but that is how "they" like it.

Wait is Bush for this New World Order?? Are you saying he invented an enemy to get the world governments to act together to go after one bad guy?? Uniting everyone??

Then how in the heck do you explain Iraq?

Boy though he sure did a good job of bringing it down to bad he wasn't as good in Iraq. Lets see inorder to bring the towers down he used radio controlled planes, with governemnet planes controlling them, Laser weapons on the planes to soften the building on impact, and planted explosives in the center of the building for a controlled demolition, oh yeah and missles just for good measure. How many people were invovlved in this anyhow?

You think a goverment that could plane up and make such a grand conspiracy could at least control a third world nation??



[edit on 30-8-2007 by Torlough]

Originally posted by Torlough
Wait is Bush for this New World Order?? Are you saying he invented an enemy to get the world governments to act together to go after one bad guy?? Uniting everyone??

Then how in the heck do you explain Iraq?

Boy though he sure did a good job of bringing it down to bad he wasn't as good in Iraq. Lets see inorder to bring the towers down he used radio controlled planes, with governemnet planes controlling them, Laser weapons on the planes to soften the building on impact, and planted explosives in the center of the building for a controlled demolition, oh yeah and missles just for good measure. How many people were invovlved in this anyhow?

You think a goverment that could plane up and make such a grand conspiracy could at least control a third world nation??

[edit on 30-8-2007 by Torlough]

Of course he is... Daddy Bush, son of Bush are all Skull and Bones, an elite fraternity connected to a German chapter, also later connected to the Nazis. Bush is also of Royal descent. Daddy Bush practically invented the NWO lexicon. Besides, I'm not the one saying it, he is. That was just one of many speeches that he gave on the New World Order. He was one of the biggest proponents of the U.N.

I don't understand what you mean by "how do you explain Iraq?"? Iraq has always been a key to controlling Middle Eastern oil resources and the drug trade coming out of Afghanistan. Every bomb that we drop over there makes someone a millionaire (these smart bombs are expensive little buggers). The biggest racket on earth has always been war.

How do you control a third world country? Easy. We've been doing it for a hundred years; Great Britain has been doing it for hundreds. You orchestrate a coup and supplant the existing government with a puppet government of your own. You take over their monetary system (set up a central bank and then proceed to let them barrow more credit than they could ever pay off. Now they are owned by you). It's the same blueprint that has been used for hundreds of years. He who controls the money, controls all. Now you control their politicians, their media, and their populace. It's like taking candy from a baby. You do realize that we built up Saddam and Osama Bin Laden, a.k.a. Tim Osman was on the CIA payroll and visited the U.S. several times, while taking tours of our military bases?

We've had our dirty hands in the Middle East since at least WWII, when Norman Schwarzkopf Sr. (Daddy to Gulf War hero General stormin Norman Schwarzkopf) was sent to Iran, working for military intelligence, CIA, etc., to orchestrate a coup in order to oust then President of Iran for the Shah of Iran. In the 70's we ousted the Shah of Iran and supplanted him with the Iatola, while orchestrating the whole hostage crisis. This is all declassified information that has been documented by the government agencies that carried it out. We've done this same thing all over South America. Don't think for a second that we don't controll Chavez of Venezuala.

What? You think that Iraq is a failure to the New World Order? No, its a rousing success. Of course, they let you think that its a terrible quagmire, like their massive drug trading expedition known as Vietnam, because they want to prolong the conflict as long as possible. Kill as many people as possible, use up as many resources as possible, and make as much money as possible. It's the same with every one of their orchestrated hoaxes they call wars. You do realize that they are playing both sides, right? Of course they want it to look like a stalemate.

As for how many people were involved? Probably a few hundred. When you have unlimited resources: control the money, the press, the government, etc.. It's pretty easy to get away with murder. It's happened many times in the past, remember JFK?

I mean, come on... We are so far technologically advanced, rich and powerful compared to the rest of the world that we should have no problem at all in Iraq. We could end this war tomarrow, if we wanted to. The fact that we do seem to be having such great difficulty in Iraq, just proves my point. It's all orchestrated.

Are you telling me that a guy, living in a cave on dialysis, in one of the poorest countries on earth, orchestrated the greatest terrorist attack on U.S soil, caused two 110 story steel buildings to collapse due to fire for the first time in the history of skyscrapers, caused NORAD to stand down, caused WTC 7 to collapse due to fire (the third steel skyscraper next Towers 1 and 2 in the history of the world to do this), struck the Pentagon (what should have been our most heavily defended place in the country), caused our media to cover it all up, etc., etc...? I think that you have a better chance of Santa Clause being real.

These are the facts, concerning 9-11:

Two 110 story steel structures, plus a reinforced command bunker (WTC7) all fell due to gasoline fires for the first time in the history of skyscrapers.

Thermate, a military explosive used to cut through steel beems, was found at ground zero.

Many eyewitness accounts exist of explosives going off within the towers prior to its collapse.

Eyewitness accounts suggest that the basement was blown out first, indicative of a controlled demoltion.

Two 110 story steel structures fell at nearly freefall rate of speed, something that is physically impossible without the use of controlled demoltion. Just watch the collapse of those two towers and then tell me that fire did that.

Seizmegraphs in the area picked up demolition signatures, i.e., explosives going off in the area.

The only buildings demolished because of 9-11 near ground zero were owned and insured by Larry Silverstein.

9 or 10 of the supposed hijackers (convenient how all of the newstations came out with this at the same time) are now known to be alive in foreign countries.

14 of the supposed hijackers were from Saudi Arabia; why are we in Iraq?

There are many stange anomolies contained in the news reportage of 9-11. Things like video looping being passed off as live footage and video editing, etc...

Insider trading of airline stock, from sources connected to the CIA, was found prior to 9-11.

Building strength, asbestos treated steel does not melt or even weaken at the temperatures generated by a gasoline fire, especially one that went out as quickly as the fires in the WTC.

Linear cut steel, indicative of demolitions, was found all over ground zero.

No real investigation of ground zero ever really took place.

Giuliani shut down the rescue efforts, making him many enemies amongst the firefighters, and then had all of the evidence shipped over seas to be recycled without an examination by structural engineers in order to see what caused such a massive failure on 9-11.

Billions of dollars in gold was never recovered at ground zero. Where is this missing gold?

The Trade Center was mysteriously shut down for several day just prior to 9-11.

Bush's brother Marvin was head of security of the WTC Complex, and his contract ended on 9-11.

Military drills with this exact scenerio and targets were being run that very morning.

How do both giant steel cores of the two Twin Towers collapse due to a relatively small gasoline fire?

I think that it is much more likely that the organization with the resources and ability to carry these attacks out did it, and that could only be our very own government.

Hothsnake,

99% of your points have been hashed out and debunked here on many occasions. I have answered your points in bold. I have links to sources for everything if you are interested.

Originally posted by HothSnake1
These are the facts, concerning 9-11:

Two 110 story steel structures, plus a reinforced command bunker (WTC7) all fell due to gasoline fires for the first time in the history of skyscrapers.

This is a fact? Gasoline? What reports are you reading? Did you forget about the planes? The debris from a collapsing skyscraper?

Thermate, a military explosive used to cut through steel beems, was found at ground zero.

No, it wasnt.

Many eyewitness accounts exist of explosives going off within the towers prior to its collapse.

This is another lie. They said explosions. NOT explosives. "sounded like bombs" is not ... there WAS a bomb

Eyewitness accounts suggest that the basement was blown out first, indicative of a controlled demoltion.

*yawns* no, there was witnesses of fireballs that came down into the basement.

Two 110 story steel structures fell at nearly freefall rate of speed, something that is physically impossible without the use of controlled demoltion. Just watch the collapse of those two towers and then tell me that fire did that.

Who said fire did that ?

Seizmegraphs in the area picked up demolition signatures, i.e., explosives going off in the area.

nope, they didn't. Actually the geologists that have the data said that it was NOT conducive with demolition.

The only buildings demolished because of 9-11 near ground zero were owned and insured by Larry Silverstein.

Um... leased actaully. Can you link a source to this. I know he was insured for WTC7 and 1 & 2 ... i dont know about all the others.

9 or 10 of the supposed hijackers (convenient how all of the newstations came out with this at the same time) are now known to be alive in foreign countries.

This is not true either. Your looking at an old sotry from 2001 that was retracted by the BBC

14 of the supposed hijackers were from Saudi Arabia; why are we in Iraq?

Well... ask Bushie...he said it was for WMD.

There are many stange anomolies contained in the news reportage of 9-11. Things like video looping being passed off as live footage and video editing, etc...

video fakery is a joke...and most CT'er know this and stay away from it.

Insider trading of airline stock, from sources connected to the CIA, was found prior to 9-11.

no..it was called put options. I'm not that well versed in it, but I suggest you look at the 911 report for the explination.

Building strength, asbestos treated steel does not melt or even weaken at the temperatures generated by a gasoline fire, especially one that went out as quickly as the fires in the WTC.

You have not looked into the construction of the WTC towers or WTC 7 . Only 1/3 of the floors were covered in asbestos on ONE of the buildings. And what gasoline are we talking about? The Jet fuel? And what fires were out? Who stated that steel melted?

Linear cut steel, indicative of demolitions, was found all over ground zero.

thats not true. The pictures were debunked here and countless other threads.

No real investigation of ground zero ever really took place.

"Real" please tell us what real is?

Giuliani shut down the rescue efforts, making him many enemies amongst the firefighters, and then had all of the evidence shipped over seas to be recycled without an examination by structural engineers in order to see what caused such a massive failure on 9-11.

hmm... 1/2 truths don't make is all true. True the steel was shipped to MANY areas..including out country. All the steel was examined, but I'm sure not as long the engineers would want to have studied it for.

Billions of dollars in gold was never recovered at ground zero. Where is this missing gold?

it was recovered, but i dont think it was "billlions"

The Trade Center was mysteriously shut down for several day just prior to 9-11.

False. there was a report by ONE person about a 26 hour shut down of a few floors in ONE of the towers so there could be a "cable upgrade" This has yet to be verified.

Bush's brother Marvin was head of security of the WTC Complex, and his contract ended on 9-11.

*yawns again* read some more into this...he was NOT the head of security there. The contract ended on 911 because the building was GONE!


Military drills with this exact scenerio and targets were being run that very morning.

exact?

How do both giant steel cores of the two Twin Towers collapse due to a relatively small gasoline fire?

small gasoline fires? Have to looked at the NIST report?

reply to post by CaptainObvious

99% of your points have been hashed out and debunked here on many occasions. I have answered your points in bold. I have links to sources for everything if you are interested.

Dubunked? Hardly. I have read many of the threads on this forum, and frankly was unimpressed. Some of it is good, but some of it is quite shoddy, some of it is outright propaganda talking points put out by the government.

This is a fact? Gasoline? What reports are you reading? Did you forget about the planes? The debris from a collapsing skyscraper?

Did you see the collapse? It happened in less than ten seconds for each Tower. It's physically impossible. Commonsense tells you that falling debris would at least find some resistance on its way down. A pancake collapse should have taken at least 50 seconds... 10 seconds is ridiculous.

The planes were made of Aluminum. I don't care how fast they were going, it wouldn't have caused that much damage to a concrete reenforced steel structure with a huge steel core, built to withstand the impact of a fully loaded 707 (Flights 11 and 757 weren't even close to full capacity and therefore not even as powerful as a fully loaded 707.)

construction-grade steel (and I think we can all agree that the WTC engineers would have used only the highest grade steel possible) melts at 2795 degrees Fahrenheit. Meanwhile, according to a BBC report on September 13, 2001 entitled How the World Trade Center Fell, the WTC steel cores reached a temperature of 1472 degrees (that's when the jet fuel was burning at its hottest just after impact) Fahrenheit, which, coincidentally, is the maximum temperature of jet fuel, but nowhere near the 2795 degrees needed to melt steel.

Yes, the official story has always been that it was the "intense fire" (talking points) that caused the collapse. That was in the NIST report.

WTC7 was over a block away from Towers 1 and 2.. It had very minor damage to it from debris.. Buildings much closer to the Towers never caught fire or collapsed. Watch this gif:


Does that look like fire did that? Even Dan Rather admitted that it looked suspiciously like a controlled demolition.

You have Larry Silverstein telling PBS that he ordered them to "pull it" and then all watched the building collapse.

No, it wasnt.

Good point... I defer to your excellent research. I'm sure that you've heard of BYU Physics professor Steven Jones and his excellent research on this topic.


The New York Times even said that the discovery of sulfur and other elements indicative of Thermate was the biggest mystery of all. That's the New York Times.

Here's the video evidence:

Google Video Link

We also see evidence of White smoke (Alumunum Oxide) pooring out of the basement before the collapse and after the collapse. This is indicative of a thermate reaction. A hydrocarbon based fire burns mostly black smoke, not white.

This is another lie. They said explosions. NOT explosives. "sounded like bombs" is not ... there WAS a bomb

Yes, I'm lying to all of you because I'm just that evil. I love making light of the deaths of thousands of people and then blaming it on my government, because that makes me fee sooooo good.

reply to post by CaptainObvious


My opinion is, based on the videotapes, that after the airplanes hit the World Trade Center there were some explosive devices inside the buildings that caused the towers to collapse".
- Van Romero, Vice President For Research At New Mexico Institute Of Mining And Technology

"I spoke with some police officials moments ago ... and they told me they have reason to believe that one of the explosions at the World Trade Center may have been caused by a van that was parked in the building that may have had some type of explosive device in it." - Rick Sanchez, MSNBC - 9/11/2001 "Apparently what appears to happen, that at the same time two planes hit the buildings, that the FBI most likely thinks that there was a car or truck packed with explosives underneath the buildings which also exploded at the same time and brought both of them down."

- Jack Kelley, USA Today Foreign Correspondent - 9/11/2001
"Just moments ago I spoke to the chief of safety for the New York City fire department, he received word of the possibility of a secondary device - that is another bomb going off ... according to his theory he thinks that there were actually devices that were planted in the building." - Pat Dawson, MSNBC - 9/11/2001

“There were explosions going off everywhere. I was convinced that there were bombs planted all over the place and someone was sitting at a control panel pushing detonator buttons . . . There was another explosion. And another. I didn't know where to run."
- Teresa Veliz, WTC 1 Employee, 47th Floor
“It just descended like a timed explosion - like when they are deliberately bringing a building down . . . It was coming down so perfectly that in one part of my brain I was thinking, 'They got everyone out, and they're bringing the building down because they have to.'” - WNYC Radio's Beth Fertig
"When I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, ... I saw low-level flashes ... I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down ... You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw."
- NYFD Assistant Fire Commissioner Stephen Gregory
“It was like a professional demolition where they set the charges on certain floors and then you hear 'Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop'."- NYC Paramedic Daniel Rivera"It was as if as if they had detonated ... as if they had planned to take down a building, boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom "- NYFD Captain Dennis Tardio

"I was taking firefighters up in the elevator to the 24th floor to get in position to evacuate workers. On the last trip up a bomb went off. We think there were bombs set in the building." - NYFD Firefighter Louie Cacchioli “There was just an explosion in the south tower. It seemed like on television when they blow up these buildings. It seemed like it was going all the way around like a belt, all these explosions.” - NYFD Firefighter Richard Banaciski
"It almost sounded like bombs going off, like boom, boom, boom, like seven or eight"- NYFD Firefighter Thomas Turilli"Heard explosions coming from . . . the south tower . . . There were about ten explosions. . . . We then realized the building started to come down" - NYFD Firefighter Craig Carlsen"It actually gave at a lower floor, not the floor where the plane hit. . . . We originally had thought there was like an internal detonation, explosives, because it went in succession, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then the tower came down"- NYFD Firefighter Edward Cachia"Somewhere around the middle . . . there was this orange and red flash coming out. Initially it was just one flash. Then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building had started to explode ... With each popping sound it was initially an orange and then a red flash came out of the building and then it would just go all around the building on both sides as far as I could see. These popping sounds and the explosions were getting bigger, going both up and down and then all around the building"- NYFD Captain Karin Deshore"A debate began to rage because . . . many people had felt that possibly explosives had taken out 2 World Trade"

- NYFD Firefighter Christopher Fenyo

reply to post by HothSnake1


Hoth,

Remaining civil, I suggest you just read a little more. I am not calling YOU a liar. Sorry if it came out that way. You are being lied to. Your information is not accurate.

If you would like, I can offer you the facts if you so choose to believe them.

This is another lie. They said explosions. NOT explosives. "sounded like bombs" is not ... there WAS a bomb

You're splitting fine hairs with that one buddy, and, besides, a strawman.

*yawns* no, there was witnesses of fireballs that came down into the basement.

You're joking right? Fire from 80 stories up blew out the basement? That is some strange fire, when elevator shafts are sealed could make it that fire with that kind of power? An oxgen starved super fire ball can descend air tight shafts in a steel skyscraper and blow out its basement? Your fire seems to defy all physical laws and logic.

“[T]here was just an explosion [in the south tower]. It seemed like on television [when] they blow up these buildings. It seemed like it was going all the way around like a belt, all these explosions.”--Firefighter Richard Banaciski

“I saw a flash flash flash [at] the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building?”--Assistant Fire Commissioner Stephen Gregory

“[I]t was [like a] professional demolition where they set the charges on certain floors and then you hear 'Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop'."--Paramedic Daniel Rivera

Declared a hero for saving numerous lives at Ground Zero, he was the janitor on duty the morning of 9/11 who heard and felt explosions rock the basement sub-levels of the north tower just seconds before the jetliner struck the top floors.

He not only claims he felt explosions coming from below the first sub-level while working in the basement, he says the walls were cracking around him and he pulled a man to safety by the name of Felipe David, who was severely burned from the basement explosions.

All these events occurred only seconds before and during the jetliner strike above. And through it all, he now asks a simple question everybody should be asking? How could a jetliner hit 90 floors above and burn a man’s arms and face to a crisp in the basement below within seconds of impact?

Rodriguez claims this was impossible and clearly demonstrates a controlled demolition brought down the WTC, saying "Let’s see them (the government) try to wiggle out of this one."Continued at source

Um... leased actaully. Can you link a source to this. I know he was insured for WTC7 and 1 & 2 ... i dont know about all the others.

Larry Silverstein is a New York City real estate developer, who got his start in 1957 with buying residential buildings. In 1980, he acquired rights to build 7 World Trade Center, from the Port Authority. In 2001, he secured a 99-year lease to the entire World Trade Center complex, including the twin towers. After the building were destroyed on 9/11, he received $3.55 billion — considerably less than the $7.1 billion he sought by arguing that the 9/11 attacks were two separate "occurrences" and merited $3.5 billion in insurance payouts per tower. Silverstein has stated that the cost of rebuilding the World Trade Center complex under the Libeskind plan would be $9 billion. Under Silverstein's lease with the Port Authority, he is required to rebuild 10 million square feet of office space, and pay $120 million each year in lease payments (even while Ground Zero sits empty).continued at source

He owned the lease on Building 7 and then bought the entire complex just three months before 9-11, taking out a huge insurance policy, specifically covering terrorist attacks just three months prior to 9-11. Coincidence?

You'll like the source above, by the way... It perpetuates some of the government propaganda that you enjoy so much, like Silverstein meant pull the firefighters when he said "pull it".. Even though there weren't any firefighters in building 7 at the time, nor are they its.

Yes I've read the NIST reports and studied the pathetically feeble political show known as the 9-11 Commission Report, which the victims families unanimously hail as wholly lacking. Both are shams. Quoting government sources about 9-11 is like asking Charles Manson if he is guilty of the Manson family murders.

hmm... 1/2 truths don't make is all true. True the steel was shipped to MANY areas..including out country. All the steel was examined, but I'm sure not as long the engineers would want to have studied it for.

No half truths here.. Just the truth. Ask the firefighters that were there, they can tell you.

FOX News has obtained a scathing letter prepared by the influential and politically active International Association of Fire Fighters union, written late last month but never released. The letter informs the more than 270,000 members that it would not be inviting Giuliani to a forum for presidential candidates on March 14, citing what the union called Giuliani's "egregious acts" after Sept. 11.

In the letter, the IAFF, whose president Harold Schaitberger is a longtime supporter of Democratic Sen. John Kerry, blames the former Big Apple mayor for "unforgivable" post-terror attacks decisions, including reducing the number of firefighters involved in the recovery operation and instituting a "scoop and dump" operation to expedite cleanup, which the union says shows a "disgraceful lack of respect" for the victims. continued at source

thats not true. The pictures were debunked here and countless other threads.

Show me..

no..it was called put options. I'm not that well versed in it, but I suggest you look at the 911 report for the explination.

Yes I have, and I found its findings rather asinine. It pretty much stated that it was insignificant. A put option is like an insurance policy betting that a stock will go down. This report also states that monetary backing is unimportant. If this doesn't spell coverup than I don't know what does. Even the dumbest investigator can tell you to follow the money.

“US-based institutional investor with no conceivable ties to al-Qaeda” --9-11 Commission report. That's great.. We already know that it wasn't al-Qaeda..

The fact is that we don't know how much gold was contained within the vaults of the WTC on that day. It is estimated well into the billions.

"Real" please tell us what real is?

Let's see, it was the largest terrorst attack in US history... How about the largest investigation into why two 110 story steel structures completely collapsed almost sumultaneously, when it had never happend before? Not a scoop and dump operation, leaving the bodies of hundreds and a pathetic political Commission as Hollywood showmanship. Not a pathetically feeble NIST report that leaves many unanswered questions. It even states in the report that they don't know how fire could have caused that exactly.

Hmmm. I seem to have lost my reply post. At any rate, my sig line was developed in that post. Must be influenced a bit by reading Shakespear, and recently again George Orwell's 1984. Off now to find Adolf Huxley's Brave New World for a refresher.

Hey, keep on knocking, you never know. Those who can not fathom our ability to give the power elite so much credit, are those who can not fathom how we can not have as much faith in them as they do. Irony, that borders on comedy, if only the tragedy of it all were not so overt.

[edit on 8/31/2007 by Churchmouse]

[edit on 8/31/2007 by Churchmouse]

BERKELEY, CA (PRWEB) April 14, 2007 -- A group of scientists, researchers and 9/11 family members challenging the official reports of the destruction of the World Trade Center Towers on 9/11/01 has filed a Request for Correction (RFC) with the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST).

The Request asserts that the NIST Final Report violates information quality standards, draws inferences that are inconsistent with its own computer simulations and physical tests, and exhibits a significant bias toward a preordained conclusion while ignoring available evidence contrary to it. The Request also says that if this bias is corrected, the NIST simulation clearly indicates that the Towers should not have collapsed due to plane damage and fire. The obvious alternative, which the group says should have been studied by NIST, is explosive demolition.

The group submitting the Request includes 9/11 family members Bob McIlvaine and Bill Doyle, physicist Steven E. Jones, former UL manager, Kevin Ryan, architect Richard Gage, AIA, and the group Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice.

A key theme of the Request is a call for NIST to reveal more of the data behind the Report's statements. Steven Jones, a physicist in Utah, says of the Report, "Among other things, we've found that the Report violates information quality standards by leaving out necessary information which would allow its conclusions to be verified."Continued at source

reply to post by HothSnake1


Hoth... I will be more than happy to explain most of your posts...I don't have the time right now to go through all of them...

Thank you for the Silverstien Complex stuff. But.... Silverstein did NOT order the pull it. The Director of Operation of the FDNY did. Find th real quote...its posted about 2 thousand times in here.

I will be back later.

Thanks for your patience.

Yes I've read the NIST reports and studied the pathetically feeble political show known as the 9-11 Commission Report, which the victims families unanimously hail as wholly lacking. Both are shams. Quoting government sources about 9-11 is like asking Charles Manson if he is guilty of the Manson family murders.

You read the NIST report? From your post apparent lack the ability
to understand it.

Once again STEEL DOES NOT NEED TO MELT IN ORDER FOR A
STRUCTURE TO FAIL!!!!!!

As steel is heated it begins to soften, At 1000 F it loses 10% of rated
strenght, at 1200 F 25%, 1400 F 50%, 1800 F only 10%. The steel
expands as it is heated, at 1000 F it expands 9 1/2 inches per 100
linear feet. The expanding steel begine to twist, bend and sag under the
stress. At some critical point the steel will have reached a point where
it can not support the load and fail. The load is transferred to adjacent
parts of the structure which if under heat stress will fail in a cascading
manner. Witness the violent failure of the exterior columns which
initialed the building collapse