A vast satanic conspiracy

reply to post by GENERAL EYES


If your side is that all the reports are made up to bring down people in power (which it hasn't done btw) . and MPD/SRA is simply not real. then you might as well be working for the fmsf

EDIT: i re read your post you weren't quite as absolute about it, as I made it out to sound right there, sorry.

If you dont belive that there is a conspiracy to form a global government, Im certainly not going to be able to convince you that its spiritually motivated at its highest levels.

I have done what i wanted to do,
that is try to give some credibility to those who, after gaining the courage to risk their lives to come forward have been told that they are crazy by academia. i hope they will continue to come forward and that they know that many people do believe them, and want to help.




[edit on 27-8-2007 by Amenti]

Originally posted by Amenti
If your side is that all the reports are made up to bring down people in power (which it hasn't done btw) . and MPD/SRA is simply not real. then you might as well be working for the fmsf.

I was expecting retaliation of this nature. Seems whoever decided to throw all this info out there made sure to cover all bases so one can easily be labeled this that or the other if they don't buy into their presentations.

Funny - but correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that also a technique emplyed by Cults? You're either with us or against us? Our doctrine is your doctrine or you're the enemy?

There are some that wont believe this no matter what information is presented, If I am not able to convince you that there is a conspiracy to form a global government, Im certainly not going to be able to convince you that its spiritually motivated at its highest levels.

If there was a "global movement" rest assured, I would have heard it by now - especially with all my dabblings on both sides of the religious crudades.

It still boils down to two major factions of people trying to get the rest of us involved in their own battles based on highly speculative and by no means authoritative accounts.

You question the methodology on either side, and most of the time you get shunned for not accepting the presentation at base value.

Shame on independant thought!

I have done what i wanted to do, that is try to give some of those who, after gaining the courage to risk their lives to come forward have been told that they are crazy by academia and by people like you.

Ouch. Well, that hurts - considering you know little to nothing of what spiritual trials and tribulations I have been through the majority of my life, nor the fact that I have had some pretty heavy encounters with these "forces of darkness" myself - but still, in the end - it's human ego that makes the misdeeds, and not some big horned red guy staring from the darkness.

Blame the perpetrators, not the Devil. If anything, the Devil only suggests such abominations, it is the weakness of the mind and flesh that makes such suggestions reality.

i hope they will continue to come forward and that they know that many people do believe them, and want to help.

That is indeed noble of you, and I wish you much luck in your chosen path.

However, if you're so quick to dismiss counter-arguements to your claims, or even realize the potential of such alternative possibilities yet jump immediately onto the bandwagon of speculation and claims that support your theory and what you WANT to see - aren't you losing sight of the big picture?

The more you dig for the gates of hell, the closer you're going to get.

Whatever the case - may your spirit stay strong throughout the trials and obstacles you may or may not encounter.


[edit on 27-8-2007 by GENERAL EYES]

Originally posted by Amenti

If you dont belive that there is a conspiracy to form a global government, Im certainly not going to be able to convince you that its spiritually motivated at its highest levels.


[edit on 27-8-2007 by Amenti]

efforts to form a global government, a world with more unity and less barriers in which diversity still remains is not necessarily a conspiracy but the desire of many people. and its not necessarily satanic but can be a good thing.

Originally posted by Amenti

I have done what i wanted to do,
that is try to give some credibility to those who, after gaining the courage to risk their lives to come forward have been told that they are crazy by academia. i hope they will continue to come forward and that they know that many people do believe them, and want to help.

[edit on 27-8-2007 by Amenti]

as stated in earlier posts I dont think you are crazy but havent dug deep enough yet and are naive about what the world is really like, who runs it and how it is run.

Furthermore, nobody is risking their lives...unless they live in constant fear of being killed for "knowing to much", in which case that fear itself produces dangerous situations.

there seem to have been attempts at mind-control. brainwashing, ritual-abuse, mpd-induction etc. but they havent seemed to been too succesful because humans can only be brainwashed temporarily and under the threat of extreme pain and with extreme measures. most people wouldnt be able to conduct the deeds necessary to mind-control someone and most other people are never fully and mind-controllable. it is extremely difficult to produce stable results in the area.

Originally posted by GENERAL EYES

I was expecting retaliation of this nature. Seems whoever decided to throw all this info out there made sure to cover all bases so one can easily be labeled this that or the other if they don't buy into their presentations.

Funny - but correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that also a technique emplyed by Cults? You're either with us or against us? Our doctrine is your doctrine or you're the enemy?

Yes, and I almost converted you too, Honestly I did think I was a little harsh, and that your reply wasn’t as absolute as I remembered. But I do think your dismissing it on the grounds that boys will be boys, and make up crazy stories is not fair to anyone.

Originally posted by GENERAL EYES
If there was a "global movement" rest assured, I would have heard it by now - especially with all my dabblings on both sides of the religious crudades.

Yes how dare they not send YOU the memo.

Originally posted by GENERAL EYES
It still boils down to two major factions of people trying to get the rest of us involved in their own battles based on highly speculative and by no means authoritative accounts.

I don’t think it does, I don’t think this is about trying to start a fight.
You just said “and by no means authoritative accounts” what are you referring to, you seem to admit this is going on at SOME level by SOME people, lets find out WHO is doing it and stop letting them get away with it!

Originally posted by GENERAL EYES
Ouch. Well, that hurts - considering you know little to nothing of what spiritual trials and tribulations I have been through the majority of my life, nor the fact that I have had some pretty heavy encounters with these "forces of darkness" myself - but still, in the end - it's human ego that makes the misdeeds, and not some big horned red guy staring from the darkness.

So you know from personal experience that there are "forces of darkness" did you find out in that encounter that there was no king over them or did you find that out later.

Im was only lightly trying to be a smart ass here but the claim you made seems odd, you know that dark spirits exist and then state that the devil is only fiction, it doesn't logically follow.

Originally posted by GENERAL EYES
However, if you're so quick to dismiss counterarguments to your claims, or even realize the potential of such alternative possibilities yet jump immediately onto the bandwagon of speculation and calims that support your theory and what you WANT to see - aren't you losing sight of the big picture?

I am open to anything, but I hope your not saying you just presented us with the proof that it doesn’t exist. I would in fact like to see the 4 million diagnosed cases of sra/mpd proven to be a mass hallucination I would sleep a lot better.



[edit on 27-8-2007 by Amenti]

Originally posted by Amenti
[I am open to anything, but I hope your not saying you just presented us with the proof that it doesn’t exist. I would in fact like to see the 4 million diagnosed cases of sra/mpd proven to be a mass hallucination I would sleep a lot better.

I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I'm just saying I'm having a hard time of sitting through the majority of sources you provided - so much of it follows a pattern of presentation that by watching them in one sitting, I begin to see intentional reinforcement here.

As I'm sure you're aware - the more you focus on a subject, the clearer it becomes in ones' mind.

Instead of watching a video of someone citing "actual cases" and "trials" - I'm in the process of trying to find actual legal documentation of these convictions - and so far, haven't gotten very far.

It's no point of doubt or contention in my mind that there are people out there who will go to exhorbant lengths to scare the beejezus out of a child, and a warm and loving church just waiting with open arms to "save" that child and provide a safe haven of loving kindness - but it's odd to me that the two seem so closely interlinked.

It's just suspicious to me.

Not saying at all that it's IMPLAUSABLE - just highly suspect for me.

In regards to my own encounters with the "dark forces" and whatnot - I've found that HUMAN EGO is usually behind the majority of these causes.

Some use the occult to give them a sense of power, some use it to intimidate others into their designs, and sadly - their churches.

This is not against the church, this is not against your claims or sources - this is, once again - against PEOPLE WHO PERVERT HISTORY AND RITUAL TO THEIR OWN USES.

The only darkness that arises is that of the human soul itself, and it continues to manifest in all manner of horrific ways.

A few of these videos read like stereo instructions for how to ritually abuse someone, and rest assured - someone out there might try a few of these sin order to feel a little "power" of their own.

So once again, I beg the question - why would a god fearing person from the Church spend so much time immersed in the realm of darkness?

I mean, sonds like a perfect cover to me - "here I know all the ways a ritual abuse scenario is carried out, come join me and let's talk about the Devil and how he manifests on Earth and the hearts and minds of mankind."

That, right there - is my point of conspiracy.

But, like I said - I'm still looking for unbiased legal documentation of these claims - because hey, there are a lot of nutcases out there with a religious agenda so it wouldn't surprise me in the least to find some truth here.

I just need something more substantial than someone with a video camera and a story to tell.

However which way you define it, satanism is leaving a bloody trail acrosst America:




2-20-98
"Kentucky Occult Teen Killers" four teen-agers and two young adults from eastern Kentucky pleaded guilty to killing a couple and their 6-year-old daughter. Natasha Cornett, 19, the reputed ringleader, told her first lawyer she was the daughter of Satan. Prosecutors said two days before the killings the group held a bizarre ritual in a Pikeville, Ky., motel room that included self-mutilation and bloodletting. Cornett -- who said she wanted to to cross the country killing people like in "Natural Born Killers" -- had almost 20 cuts on her right arm and about 50 on her left arm when she was arrested. Apparently she only could communicate with Satan after cutting herself and bleeding.

-----------------

Andrew Wurst 14, Edinborough, PA, 4-24-98 Parker Middle School(at off-campus school dance); 1 dead, 3 wounded

--He called himself, "Your God, Satan."

--Woodham was part of a group of Death Metal fans who prayed to Satan...

-----------------

--Columbine victim Cassie Bernall Two years ago she was strung out on drugs, deeply involved in witchcraft, and began writing hateful letters to her parents. "She said she wanted to kill them," said Pastor Kirsten. "She was going down the road of Dylan and Eric."

----------------

--4-21-99
A 36-year-old Indiana man with an interest in satanism was indicted Tuesday on charges of burning 10 churches in Indiana and Georgia, the National Church Arson Task Force announced. It was the largest number of fires charged to one individual during the task force's nearly 3-year-old investigation, said Treasury Undersecretary James Johnson, the task force co-chairman.

-----------------
4-27-99
Taber, Alberta, W.R. Myers HS, 1 dead and 2 wounded
--A home-made bomb was left behind on his bedroom dresser along with notebook sketchings of dead bodies, devil symbols ....

-----------------

1-1-01
"Operations and Reconnasance Agents"(OARA) Colorado Springs, CO, Palmer H.S., 3 dead(15 year old plus his grandparents)

--"Isaac Grimes(one of the killers) has been a victim of brainwash and mind control and that is very very clear" said a Reverend and friend of the family. "The boy only committed the crimes because he was brainwashed by what he called a satanic cult."

------------------

In late October of 2001 four or five teens from New Bedford, Massachusetts are arrested for planning an attack on New Bedford High School. The teens "are suspected of a plot to shoot faculty and classmates and then kill themselves" on the roof of the school.

--They collected "satanic and death writings"

---------------

12-8-01
Four young people are arrested in Loudown County, Virginia for the stabbing/slashing death of biophysicist Robert M. Schwartz, 57 at his secluded farmhouse. Daughter Clara convinced a friend to kill her father, who she claimed was trying to poison her.

--"....killings had 'cult overtones' "

--The suspects "...are said to have a fascination with both swords and Satanism."

--He "...belonged to a 'coven', a group of young men and women who read books on witchcraft."

--"...an 'altar' were found during a search of the residence.."

----------------

6-29-03
Joseph Hunter Parker, 30, killed two people with a samurai sword at an Albertson's supermarket in Irvine, California(Orange County). According to one source, "Parker became immersed in the occult, scrawling page after page of spells and prayers, the writings spilling into the margins...."


----------------

Jeff Weise, Red Lake 3-21-05
-"One time, he twisted his hair into Devil's horns and painted the horns red. He looked like a real Devil!"





Even the schools are getting in on the act:


Satanic image found in Pearland, Texas, school (12-04)(courtesy KHOU-TV)

Local school officials in a suburb of Houston, Texas, are investigating how it was possible that a school police officer handed out calendars to students that featured explicit details on satanic and sexual rituals for every day of the month.

The school police officer who handed out the calendars was supposed to deliver a positive anti-gang message to the students last Monday, according to the report.

"September 20th is a 'midnight host' whatever that is," said one unidentified parent reading from the calendar. "You should have a blood-type ritual. September 23rd is the fall equinox – you should have an orgy. Activity group sex, any age, any sex."






/

[edit on 27-8-2007 by starviego]

I think there is definitely something to be aware of with regard to "satanism". It is part of the world's religious history, and not confined to Judeo Christian interpretations of religious reality. There are demonic entities in all the religions I am aware of. Some of these entities are very selfish destructive and refined, all attributes we associate with "Satan".

These attributes are also associated with the world's ruling classes. These attributes are also championed by modern materialistic culture. Human society is producing new satans all the time. When people who embody the attributes I mentioned die, they go into the spirit world and become demonic entities accessible to any occultist who invokes them. They then are able to inflict whatever damage they can from the spirit plane.

Ritual behaviors are used to attract spirit entities, whether good or bad. There are no empty rituals. They all have an effect. At Bohemian Grove the "cremation of Care" ritual exorcizes any spirits of concience or revenge that might try to inhibit our ruling class from pursuing their selfish uncaring goals.

It's too bad American fundamentalist Christians are so uninformed. They should be destroying George Bush's support among Christians. It makes me think that they are really a very weak and compromised group. All the Christian churches should be aghast at what goes on at Bohemian Grove and should pull no punches in refusing to support anyone who takes part in those rituals.

[edit on 27-8-2007 by ipsedixit]

This is interesting talk. My view on the matter is this; the majority of people in the world are stupid. Also, it seems to me that evil people seem to possess more power than good...maybe because power corrupts? I don't know...what I do know is this.
This little...or rather large world we live in is going to change very much, as corruption grows(whether it be from Satanism, luciferism, or simply man's mind). If we do not kill ourselves 1st...the change will be very trying on the soul of what we consider good.

reply to post by starviego


and its understood that without christianity there would be no satanism, right?

Originally posted by Skyfloating
and its understood that without christianity there would be no satanism, right?

A quick search just revealed 15 references to Satan in the old testament, and one to Lucifer. All of these predate Christianity by a few hundred years at least. Then there's Satan’s many alter ego's in every other ancient culture to consider. I think a statement I could agree with is that without Christianity, Satanism wouldn't need to exist, as there would be no resistance to Satan’s rule of this world.

reply to post by resistor


I didnt mean to say that there is no such thing as evil. but the idea of "satan" or the name "satan" is something that has been advertised by christianity, has its origins in christianity. christians justify their existence through this entity called satan. in order to justify a mission, project or movement one needs a problem/enemy, right? in this sense greenpeace needs pollution, g.w.bush needs terrorists to justify his actions, satanists need christians to contrast with, and christians need satan. thats the nature of duality.

what I dont quite understand is your comment that satan predates christianity by a couple of years. could you clarify?

Originally posted by Skyfloating
what I dont quite understand is your comment that satan predates christianity by a couple of years. could you clarify?

could be a couple thousand.
Most Scholars consider the book of Job to be the oldest book in the bible. en.wikipedia.org...#
that could be around 2000 years before Christianity, most figure around 1000BC but its old!
The book is perhaps the most revealing on the attributes and history of Satan.





[edit on 28-8-2007 by Amenti]

Amenti -

Just a check in, and a few questions for you.

I've had no luck on finding court transcripts of these cases, and most of the sites unrelated to the SRA conspiracy insist on a service fee to provide nothing more than newspaper articles on the cases mentioned.

Maybe my searching skills are a bit off kilter, but I'm still looking for an objective source to correlate these claims.

My question to you is whether or not you have found any demographic information regarding the educational levels, ages, socioeconomic positions and/or any comprehensive database on similarities between vicitms and perpetrators.

I have a high interest in the psychological and sociological backgrounds of these perpetrators and their victims. It would solve a weath of nagging questions I have right now.

If there is a conspiracy - there has to be some sort of set out pattern that can be detected from this information.

Do you know of any such information caches?

Thanks for your time.

GENERAL EYES,
www.ra-info.org...
www.ra-info.org...

Allegood, J. (1991). "Abuse trial opens." The News & Observer, August 20.
"Child, 5, alleges more abuse at trial." The News & Observer, August 27.
"Mother says son told her of satanic chants at center." The News & Observer, Sept. 11.

Allegood, J. (1993). "Jurors convict Rascals cook." The News & Observer, Jan. 27.

Allegood, J. (1994). "No contest plea in Little Rascals child-sex case." The News & Observer, January 22.

"Arkansas teen faces death sentence in murder of 3 boys." Chicago Tribune, March 20, 1994.

Beifuss, J. (1994). "Misskelley guilty in boys' slayings." The Commercial Appeal, February 5.

Boyd, B. (1992). "Rohde guilty on 7 counts." News Journal, March 18.

Cawley, Janet. (1987) "2 cult children show signs of sex abuse," Chicago Tribune, February 9.

"Child abuser gets 12 life sentences." (1992). Chicago Tribune, April 24.

"Child Exploitation," World (USA Today), September 7, 1996, p. 10.

"Child molester gets 40 years in Minnesota case." (1985), Chicago Tribune, January 19.

Crewdson, J., Emmerman, L. and Ogintz, E. (1984) "Sexual abuse case continues to haunt town in Minnesota." Chicago Tribune, December 16.

"Dad says girl was chained to restrict her self-abuse." Flint Journal, March 21, 1994.

"Day-care owner guilty on 99 child abuse counts." (1992). Chicago Tribune. April 23.

"Discovery of bound girl confirms many suspicions." Flint Journal, February 19, 1994.

Eisley, M. (1993). "Woman loses gamble in sex abuse plea bargain." The News & Observer, July 6.

Emmerman, L. (1984). "Charges of child sex-abuse ring rock town." Chicago Tribune, August 27.

Emmerman, L. (1984). "Witness recants sex-ring story." Chicago Tribune.

"Fells Acre Day-Care: Amiraults May Return to Prison." The Survivor Activist (14), Vol. 5, No. 1, Spring, 1997.

Ford, Beverly. (1991). "Parents eye porn-ring link." The Boston Herald, March 11.

Ford, Beverly. (1991). "Cape parents want porn case reopened." The Boston Herald, March 18.

"Former Critic Reverses, Says 'The System Worked,'" Sex Crimes Digest, 1996.

Gaines, Judith. (1991). "Three Men Charged With Running N.E. Child Pornography Ring." The Boston Globe, March 2.

Gamino, D. and P. Ward. (1992). "Garden of horror." Fort Worth Star-Telegram, Dec. 20.

Hobbs, M.A. (1992). "Tales of satanism divide Mansfield." The Plain Dealer, November 29.

Hollingsworth, J. (1986). Unspeakable Acts. Chicago: Congden and Weed.

Hubert, C. (1989). "Day-care abuse stuns Iowa town." Daily Herald, December 4.

Jonker, F. and Jonker-Bakker, P. (1993). "Actuality in the Netherlands," European Network for Backlash Research Newsletter Number 2, December.

"Judge orders couple to trial on charges of child abuse." Flint Journal, 1994.

Kelley, M. "Ritual child-abuse allegations draw attention to Danville case." The Associated Press, January 27, 1997.

Knox, D. (1994). "Sexton mother guilty of abuse." Akron Beacon Journal, April 15.

Kraft, B. P.. (1996). "Ex-Satanist to Serve 9 Years on Sex Charges." Clarion-Ledger.

"Little Rascals case reopened." (1996). The News & Observer, April 30.

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Trexler, P. (1992). "Butner pleads guilty." News Journal, February 21.

What we should be concerned about is those that haven't been found out,
I think most of these people were being made examples of, or didnt play ball, some probably weren't even connected to a hierarchy, a lot of them do appear to be though.

I hope this helps

[edit on 28-8-2007 by Amenti]

isnt this satanic/adoni crap all the same stuff william Cooper wrote in Behold a Pale Horse, Secret Societies section? sounds REALLY familiar

Originally posted by Amenti

Originally posted by Skyfloating
what I dont quite understand is your comment that satan predates christianity by a couple of years. could you clarify?

could be a couple thousand.
Most Scholars consider the book of Job to be the oldest book in the bible. en.wikipedia.org...#
that could be around 2000 years before Christianity, most figure around 1000BC but its old!
The book is perhaps the most revealing on the attributes and history of Satan.





[edit on 28-8-2007 by Amenti]

have you ever READ the book of job? its not a history of satan, its a book about a man who has everything taken away from him, and how he remains faithful to God throughout the entire thing, no matter what satan tries, he stays faithful and doesn't curse God.

Thanks Amanti -

Never hurts to have additional sources provided.

I'm just not finding the information I need - most likely, I'd have to be looking in-depth at psychological profiles of the individuals involved as well as first hand testimony on the part of the perps and victims as oppossed to just reported crimes and convictions -

I agree that there are a lot of abuse cases out there, but from the point of view of someone who studies the occult rather seriously at levels beyond this type of "satanic" influence - I fail to see any type of high level organization between any of the cases aside from vicitimization of children and general modem operendi.

The psychoanalytic profiles of the perpetrators and victims, from a non SRA affiliated psychologist would be most helpful.

Right now it simply sounds like a case of some people with rather serious control issues, delusional and fantasy prone lifestyles as well as a mishmash of various homemade rituals.

Honestly, that doesn't sound very organized to me within the collective "whole".

But then again, I'm not going to sit here and proclaim I know step by step how a "Satanic Organization" would go about their business, but so much of the methodology employed on the parts of the perps seems messy, sloppy and thrown together.

I still think it's more to do with diseased minds and warped worldviews than actual Satanic influence, but then again - we might just be dancing around semantics and terminology here.

Thanks again for your diligent research, you sure found a wealth of information.

Kudos.

Since this thread is about Vast Satanic Conspiracies, just thought I'd add a bit more fuel to the fire: portland.indymedia.org...
Dont know who authored this, but it's been on the net for a while. Scroll to the middle of the page and read the supposed conversation between Henry Lee Lucas & his "partner in crime" Ottis Toole. Creepy! This ring a bell with any of you who have first hand knowledge of MKUltra/Satanic doings? Or should I chalk this article up to some whiney Oregon liberal making up anti-Bush propaganda?