**ALL MEMBERS** A REMINDER OF WHY WE ARE HERE AND HOW TO ACT.

Than you will continue to have a behavior problem.

Only addressing the actions of some posters will guarantee that it continues. Fix the root problem.

Originally posted by Reality Hurts
Than you will continue to have a behavior problem.

Only addressing the actions of some posters will guarantee that it continues. Fix the root problem.

We try to address all problem issues and what the staff misses, the membership lets us know about.

I'm not sure what "behaviour" we're supposed to "control" or why.

Is the staff supposed to silence people based off our personal feelings? Like I don't like people saying they were abducted and if I think they're frauds, I just delete the threads? How does that ever build ethical conduct?

You're saying people are getting mad and continue to get mad over threads that they don't believe in? I wonder why they bother reading them and spend so much energy for text on a page.

Taking a walk now and then might help immensly.

reply to post by ZeddicusZulZorander


You might want to read the original post, and my other ones.

The behavior, or misbehavior I suppose, that I was speaking of is outlined by Springer. In it he states that "it is the policy of this site that it's worth slogging through and exposing a thousand hoaxes to get one fact", and that all members "must be polite" to those that post them.

Lately there have been more hoaxes than before, and many members less tolerant of the really really obvious hoaxes, so I suggested that staff be a little more proactive in policing those threads.

Silly me for suggesting it....Springer said it was impossible

So my point is that if you only address the behavior issue, you're not addressing the complaint of those that are misbehaving. Its a Band-aid on a bullet wound, and it isn't going to get better.




[edit on 23-8-2007 by Reality Hurts]

isnt the biggest problem when someone comes in with a really great claim and then gives us "teasers" for their evidence over several days? the old "well this is what happened and i can prove it, but not right now...ill post more later"?

whats wrong with asking people bringing claims to the table to lay out their cards all at once? this isnt poker afterall...

or is it just me? cuz if it is ill be more than happy to go back into my corner and shut it lol.

Originally posted by Reality Hurts
Than you will continue to have a behavior problem.

Only addressing the actions of some posters will guarantee that it continues. Fix the root problem.

May I propose an something? Let's try this. Will it work? We won't know until we try. It HAS worked in other forums so there is a precident. Can we do this? It's up to the individual. Remember, it's not about "you", or "you", or "you", or "me". It's about ATS. You wouldn't have taken this stance unless you cared, that's a given. Can we try this?

Originally posted by Damocles
isn't the biggest problem when someone comes in with a really great claim and then gives us "teasers" for their evidence over several days? the old "well this is what happened and i can prove it, but not right now...ill post more later"?

whats wrong with asking people bringing claims to the table to lay out their cards all at once? this isn't poker afterall...

or is it just me? cuz if it is ill be more than happy to go back into my corner and shut it lol.

I actually agree with you here Damocles, and there are several threads that I have jumped into (when i am not buried with work and have the darn time to keep up) and flat out stated that the OP has 24 hours to come with the "goods" or they will be banned and their thread labeled a hoax. There are a few threads (now dead and buried on page 122 or some such of the forum) that were labeled and the members banned for this very reason.

The old "bait and tease" game does NOT play here at ATS, if the Membership will only point them out we WILL act on them.

That being said, if a Member had an experience and has not "teased" with physical evidence there is little we can do but allow them the courtesy of getting all the details out. We must remember that when someone has had an experience that has left them confused and maybe even frightened they may not be able to explain it to our satisfaction without the help of POLITELY asked questions that very well may trigger an explanation.

Again, the ONLY POINT HERE is to get at the TRUTH the desire to be the first to prove a hoax is NOT what ATS is about at all. (I am NOT saying that's what you mean Damocles )

This Membership's collective deductive and research power has proven time and time gain to be GREATER than ANY single "Expert" I have ever encountered. That can REALLY HELP the Honest and it squelches the deceivers in short order.

Springer...

[edit on 8-23-2007 by Springer]

reply to post by Springer


and that more than anything else is probably why i spend so much time at this site.

because who's to say which one story will be the big one? i mean, what would it have meant to the world had serpo been legit? on the other hand, what would have happened if the members here had just taken it all on faith and not asked the tough questions? god knows how many people woulda got sucked up into a lie?

AWelcome to the club springer.......

Your mods also do the same thing you are talking about.I have had it happen to me personally once or twice specifically by the mods here.

What is the criteria for becoming a mod?Just being active on the site for a few years seems like the only requirement.

Only cool poeple double post.

Kidding it was a accident

[edit on 23-8-2007 by Project_Silo]

You know, there was hope for a brief moment:

Originally posted by Springer
..there are several threads that I have jumped into (when i am not buried with work and have the darn time to keep up) and flat out stated that the OP has 24 hours to come with the "goods" or they will be banned and their thread labeled a hoax. There are a few threads (now dead and buried on page 122 or some such of the forum) that were labeled and the members banned for this very reason.

The old "bait and tease" game does NOT play here at ATS, if the Membership will only point them out we WILL act on them.

I little more of that is all I was suggesting.

However, then I got to this:

Originally posted by Springer
That being said, if a Member had an experience and has not "teased" with physical evidence there is little we can do but allow them the courtesy of getting all the details out.

And there is the massive problem thats not being addressed. Even the blatant hoaxes won't be policed, even lightly or passively. God forbid that you type "omg", "ftr", or "fwiw", thats "TXT Messaging Shorthand", but a bored 13 year old can create a story about how he is a 4000 year old angel here to "spred nolege bout teh ilumanatti" without repercussion. There is a real disconnect there, you're not seeing it, and a lot of us are getting really ticked off about it.

Which makes me question this statement:

Originally posted by Springer
...the ONLY POINT HERE is to get at the TRUTH

I am not trying to be combative, snide, or "cute" when I say this, but this thread and another have made me wonder if this statement is still as true today as it once was. Time will tell...maybe I'll crate a thread in the Conspiracy Forum at some point, searching for the truth.

Reality Hurts -

As has been asked, I'm curious to see exactly which threads you claim to be so "obviously" fraudulent. Are you suggesting we all forget about our own oppinions and judgement and go by what YOU THINK is fradulent?

Ya see, the problem is not everyone here has shared the same experiences as you... we've come to ATS with our own walks of life -- and with that, our own points of view. The fact that you havent been lucky--or unlucky? enough to experience certain things for yourself, does NOT mean those "experienced" were not a reality to some other individual.

The only thing that needs fixing, is the inability for some people to be open minded towards something they cannot comprehend or have not experienced for themselves. If they find this a challenge -- then the least they can do is keep their oppinions to themselves, because without the right mentality, their oppinion may come across as very insulting and unwarranted.

[edit on 23/8/07 by Navieko]

reply to post by Navieko

I've been lucky to have seen a lot, and experienced a lot, and thats why I am here.

What I am annoyed by are the fakes, the hoaxers, and the outright frauds who try to gain attention and status by being the hero in a story of their own creation. It waters down the experiences of people who have really gone through it, and makes us all look like kooks and lunatic fringe madmen. For our stories and our whole community to be accepted by the mainstream, these hoaxers need to be exposed, shunned, and disavowed.

They are damaging to this community and need to be weeded out by both staff and other members.

But we're still back at the question of who is to decide what is obvious and what isn't? I myself cannot recall seeing any of these 'blatantly obvious' hoaxes, lies or fraudulent threads... and that begs the question - Is it possible that where you see an orange--I see an apple?

What makes ATS such a great place is that it's the members that decide what is interesting, what is hoax or truth, etc. and ultimately what stays and what goes. Now in this sort of society, the only way to deal with the problem in which you speak of--WHILE making sure EVERYONES oppinion counts... is to follow the T&C in which Springer has clearly outlined in his OP.

reality, i see your point and to a degree i agree with you totally. but i also see the staff's point that people need the opportunity to present their case without everyone calling them a liar or haoxer right off the bat.

what if we were lucky enough to get that ONE guy or gal out there with a ground breaking story to tell who just didnt have the skill or ability to tell a story in a well presented manner? or had JUST experienced it and were still too rattled to relay all the details? would we want to run the risk or losing the rest of this story?

now as ive said im a big fan of just throwing the cards on the table in one shot but that may not always happen.

i guess in the end it comes down to not making a blanket policy and taking each story on a case by case basis and for us as members to maintain our maturity and decorum in questioning those with a story to tell, a hoax will come out in course but the truth may need a little time to unfold.

/ramble mode

Then what is the problem w/ a mod stopping by a thread and saying "Hey, thats a pretty wild story you have there! Neato. We're happy to have you share your experiences, but remember, you need to be able to back it up. Feel free to contact me if you need a completely anonymous and confidential way of doing so" ? Then followed by a few IP checks to see if this guy is a repeat offender, things like that.

Is that oppression? Is that stifling? Is that inappropriate for civil conversation?

No. It is reasonable and would say "Yes, we are all open to hear real stories, but leave your self serving fantasies at the door".

Why is this such a problem?

LOL when you put it htat way...i dont see a problem at all personally.

the other thing to consider is this. we ALL want PROOF when people tell a story. yet, there may not always be proof. i could retell my story but i didnt have a camera, no video exists, just my word. does that diminish the fact it happened? no, it just doesnt prove anything other than i saw something odd.

but just becuase i cant PROVE it happened doesnt mean it didnt. so does that mean i shouldnt share my story with the members of ats?

Its almost become a free-for-all at times and if people know that mods are watching, they're less likely to keep up a fake story. Thats all I'm asking.

You know, when they say, "omg i got bit by a gray alien. what do i do? if i go to the doctor they brainwash me! onoes!!!". Yeah, someone that that poster would know would have a camera. And staff could even offer to give him a quick and easy tutorial on how to post the pics of his wound. Simple things like that.


And Navieko:

Originally posted by Navieko
But we're still back at the question of who is to decide what is obvious and what isn't?

I'm intentionally not addressing that for 2 reasons:

1) We see lots of hokey posts here that may or not be frauds. I'd be okay leaving that determination in the capable hands of the ATS staff.

2) I'm not about to get bogged down in a tit for tat, "Well I think this is fake, "Oh not it isnt" "Oh yes it is", conversation. It isnt the point.


I'm trying to get a situation recognized and rectified, not get into a protracted debate about the minutia.



[edit on 23-8-2007 by Reality Hurts]

reply to post by Reality Hurts


The funny thing is, they do this. I've seen a few occasions where a hoaxer/liar was caught out by one of the amigos after an IP check. As for the rest, there really is no need to tell them that your 'lies' are not wanted here. It's just common sense, and if once a blue moon some kid comes a long with a little story he made up, I'm quite sure it'll be handled straight away--appropriately.

Your making this out to be an extremely common thing happening, where in reality, the only threads/stories that have been uncovered recently as a hoax are the ones where it took the collective intelligence of MANY of our members to finally uncover the truth. These were well thought out hoaxes which needed quite a bit of time to uncover... not some kid's fantasy story.

I still don't see where the problem lies... I see what you're addressing, but what I question is whether or not what you're addressing, actually exists.
Maybe you can point me to all these threads?

[edit on 23/8/07 by Navieko]

This back-and-forth arguing needs to stop. It should be continued either in private between Reality Hurts and an administrator/moderator or elsewhere, but not in here.

You know....never mind.




[edit on 23-8-2007 by Reality Hurts]