Dear Reader, you are responsible for the oil wars

Originally posted by cavscout

Originally posted by Equinox99
It is the person your nation funds through businesses.

Hey, tell you what, bud. Seeing as I let you know (in my mini-profile) that I am from the US, and you used that info to point fingers at my nation, how about letting me know where you are from?

How rude can you be?

Don’t make fun of someone's country and hid your own.

Until I see a country in your mini-profile I don’t think it would be appropriate for me to respond further to your threads.

I'm sorry when did I make fun of your country? I have nothing but respect
for USA, however it is your politicians and corporations that I point my fingers at. I am from Canada, we do the same thing and I point my fingers at them as well. You must understand Canada never invaded Iraq it was USA. I happen to be from Iraq, I seen the beautiful country it used to be.
I am sorry if I hurt you, but sometimes the truth hurts.

What a sad, sad little man. And little men sit on little high horses.

In fact, from now on, cavscout, your new nickname is Anne Coulter.

This is all too familiar.

You sitting there thinking "What a feat I have pulled off!" You start a post and define you own absolutes and then you make some off the cuff statement that just so happens to offend people. HOW INNOVATIVE!!!

For example, if I were to start a post and say that "All people who drive SUV's support child molestation, because someone who molested a child drove an SUV and therefore you must be supporting child molestation if you drive an SUV".

Then people get mad, particularly those who drive SUVs and Oila! You have a ton of people coming to your threads and, for once in your day, people pay attention to something you have to say.

And you just sit back and watch the fires burn. On your LITTLE high horse.

Anne Coulter, at least, does it for book sales. Sadly, youre doing this for ATS points.

What you are doing is infantile, and just plain ridiculous. Even worse, it does NOTHING to build or solve anything. There is nothing productive in what you do. You just sit and breed venom. And what is truly sad, is that you think you are so much smarter than everyone else. But any "literate" idiot can tell you that what you do is so simple and infantile most people can't lower themsleves down to that level.

That, to me, is what you should feel guilty for.

I am not going to humor you buy even talking about oil, because that is not what this thread is about. Your not interested in having any type of discussion on this. You just want to lure people in by insulting them and then tell them how stupid they are for living their lives the way they do. It makes you feel powerful. But in the end, you will only feel sad. Sad because you have done nothing with your time but reek havoc and spread fires.

It is people in the world like you who are soooo involved with themselves, that they never stop to think about what they could maybe contribute. And that "my friend" is the crime. The more people like you we have in the world, the farther we get away from any solution to our problems. Why? Because people like you spend all of your time telling everyone what they are doing wrong, and never think about what REALLY is wrong about it.

People like you cause the wars, fight over the religion, take advantage of those not as privileged as you and then laugh all the way home. And you do it because you can't figure out why things don't revolve around you.

Your faux "mea culpa" is really nothing more than a cry for attention. How sad...

Get a life...

yes, we demand oil but i dont think we demanded to kill for it.
I would gladly trade in my sudan for a hybrid if it saved a life or two.

Originally posted by TruthWithin
For example, if I were to start a post and say that "All people who drive SUV's support child molestation, because someone who molested a child drove an SUV and therefore you must be supporting child molestation if you drive an SUV".

See, this right here tells me that you don’t have the mental capacity to understand my argument. You still think I am saying that you are guilty by association. Because it has become apparent that you just aren’t going to understand what I am saying I should stop trying to explain it to you. And just so we are clear, I do understand the difference between understanding an argument and agreeing with it.

I don’t believe that you really think I started this thread just to piss people off. You aren’t that stupid, at least I don’t think you are. I started this thread because I want people to think about the things they may be doing to further the cause of modern war.

Why do I care that people think about their involvement? Because I have seen war first hand, and it sucks. Because my father and two of my brothers are in Iraq and I want them home. Because I am ashamed of the killing we have done and I want it to stop.

I don’t think it ever will stop so long as we look at war as something "they" do and not something "we" do. We can’t sit by and blame others for what we benefit from any longer.

I take personal accountability for my actions, and for what I ask (indirectly) my government to do. Even though I don’t support the war in Iraq and think we need to come home, I still ask them to stay when I don’t change my daily activities. I ask them to get me cheap oil every other day when I fill my tank, every time I purchase a plastic bottle of Diet Coke, every time I buy a new set of tires, every time I complain about the economy.

I take personal responsibility for the things others do on my behalf. Do I think this makes me any better? No, it makes me worse because I see what I perceive to be people killing on my behalf and not only do I not take personal steps to stop them, I continue to do the same things they are killing those people to help me with.

You don’t take any responsibility for what your leaders do on your behalf. You cry "it's not my fault" then fling personal attacks my way to make yourself feel better.

And I am the bad guy?

Get a clue, friend.

Originally posted by PeoplesLiberation
yes, we demand oil but i dont think we demanded to kill for it.

Can you imagine what would have happened if 6 months after the war in Iraq began Americans stopped driving to work? Even just half or a quarter of us? Even a tenth would have done the trick.

The war would be long over had we done that. So we condone it, and most don’t even realize they are condoning it, especially those who say they are against it.

I agree with the sentiment of your post but disagree on the finer points.

Oil is only a small part of the picture in Americas global conflicts. It's an easy central theme to point out but I don't think oil is driving the Iraq war.

The people don't force the government to go to wars over oil. That's usually a government led initiative.

[edit on 16-8-2007 by discomfit]

Originally posted by cavscout

I take personal responsibility for the things others do on my behalf. Do I think this makes me any better? No, it makes me worse because I see what I perceive to be people killing on my behalf and not only do I not take personal steps to stop them, I continue to do the same things they are killing those people to help me with.

I think what we have here is a posting of anguish and guilt. I admire you now for your admissions of your feelings. I apologize for any misunderstandings of your intentions.

However, I have to issue an admonishment as well: Face Reality. Killing other people for whatever resources (e.g. oil, food, water, land, etc.) is a long-standing and time-honored tradition amongst humankind. We ain't any different than cavemen fighting over the last carcass on the plains, only the technology has changed. Further, your relatives (and mine) have taken up the call as warriors to claim such rights. You can say they are just fighting for oil but they are really fighting to preserve our way of life. And I, as stated, respect and honor them for that and do not diminish them by minimalizing the cause of their actions.

No. If I drove an economy car that if everyone drove would reduce oil consumption by such an amount that the War on Oil would not exist. Would that make me responsible?

See, this right here tells me that you don’t have the mental capacity to understand my argument.

Ah.. so insulting people who you do not agree with?

Lmfao.

[edit on 16-8-2007 by C0bzz]

/offtopic/ just have to say EVERYTIME i make a post replying to something it gets totaly ignored../Offtopic/ (lol)




yes... war... oil... all that good stuff... WAR hmm.... if we werent at war for OIL then we would be at WAR for some other reason... has there honestly been a generation in this country that did not see a war?

its kind of like tradition.. war seems to make everyone money...

oil or not.. we would be over there because thats how our government roles... lol

its true what cavscout said, but he left out a big part.

they do it for you, but more over, they do it for themselves to make such a ridiculous profit they don't even need. why? so they can defend from buy off's and buy off someone else's oil company to expand. they want super profits. we just want to get to and from. if they really cared, they'd put gasoline restriction into place for cars, not just emissions standards. cars using more than 25mpg on the street, not highway, should be illegal and dangerous to the environment and gas supply to drive.

this includes all SUVs with V8's in them, all trucks wit V8's in them, all hot rods with V8's in them, and any other V8 that isnt tuned to get at least 25mpg street. Which isn't hard; the BMW and VW V8 engines get that kind of gas mileage, and still have great performance.

its alot of the american car market. everyone wants a big ass car with a big ass engine, and they feel if they have the money to do it, they should be just like Lil Wayne and the Eastside Boyz, or other rappers who have made certain expensive SUVs the ultimate status symbol for your average joe. Because your average joe can save and get lucky, and buy one, but your lower class person cant. And furthermore, they dont set the standard, the rappers, too high, like by only rapping about Bentleys and Maybachs, and only driving such cars/SUVs. If you promote a behavior and you are looked up to among the community as 'cool', your behavior is exemplified, people will flock to it and do it too.

finally, there are a couple cars worth a crap going onto the market that have non-gasoline engines, or half gas / half electric. I prefer the diesel motors, specifically the turbo diesel motors. This is my next contribution to the environment and the gasoline issue. Volkswagen and Toyota are both leading the game with hybrids and cars with simply awesome gas mileage. Nowadays, you can have a cool looking, fast moving, tuned, performance vehicle that you truly enjoy, except itll get great gas mileage.

The Volkswagen TDI: Turbo Diesel Injection. These are given a Turbo to counteract a straight diesel's slowness for performance. It works. This car is highly modifiable since it has a Turbo, with proper preparations, the boost of the Turbo can be raised, and the car will become even faster. You can make a turbo diesel gain more power than a standard gasoline engine for the same money! And get this... any VW TDI made since the mid 1990's gets 40+MPG.

40+ MPG, no electric, no hybrid. it has a turbocharger, and can be modified for performance and power because of this turbocharger.

The future of eco-friendly PERFORMANCE is turbo-diesel. The BMW turbo diesel option for the 5-series car in Europe outsells the gasoline motor, but get this. The BMW Turbo Desel motor is FASTER! than the traditional gasoline, unmodified, on road tests. It actually accelerates faster. And gets almost double the gas mileage to boot.

If you are not concerned with power and performance and speed at all, Toyota makes excellent hybrid cars that get even MORE miles per gallon. The Prius comes to mind. Also, that Honda one ? forgot its name, it was the first to be in America I think, for hybrids.

[edit on 8/16/2007 by runetang]

I am sorry to say this but i drive a Subaru WRX STI C-SPEC with the Prodrive kit.

I am therefore the most guilty person on this whole thread i am SORRY
in advance but feel it is most important i make the public aware of the fact's.

i128.photobucket.com...

i128.photobucket.com...

i128.photobucket.com...

So now you see how i was made so weak FORGIVE ME !!!!!

Regard's
Lee

Originally posted by h3akalee
I am sorry to say this but i drive a Subaru WRX STI C-SPEC with the Prodrive kit.

I am therefore the most guilty person on this whole thread i am SORRY
in advance but feel it is most important i make the public aware of the fact's.


So now you see how i was made so weak FORGIVE ME !!!!!

Regard's
Lee

I was sitting reading this thread thinking the same thing, i'm personally running a Civic Type-R with a supercharger which I get roughly 15mpg.
I don't feel guilty for running it because the arguement that the reason they went to war was for oil is wrong, oil companies worldwide export oil from many countries without the need to go to war to secure it.
Also Iraq was justified as being to rid the world of Saddam & his WMD's, if the government had said they went to war for oil then there would be a public backlash.

The OP is just baiting people & when people give him a logical answer he just ridicules & his ego takes over.

I thought those Japanese 4 bangers had good gas mileage? hehe.

I drive an inline 6cyl and you guys would both dust me. But its a '94 325 series bimmer with the looks to go with it so I'll get the broadz.


The volkswagen girlies love me, theres alot of female VW drivers.. and probably this dude is gonna join their ranks with a Golf Turbo Deez ..

It's always been my dream to tune out a turbo diesel.

The OP is just baiting people & when people give him a logical answer he just ridicules & his ego takes over.

I think you won the prize in this thread dude.

Add me to you friend's list and we can carry on the conversation there.

In regard to OIL again im gonna say something a little lowbrow but hay i went to Iraq to fight the good fight for Mr Blair and the average joe. So i should be in oil credit if you ask me.

Regard's
Lee




[edit on 16-8-2007 by h3akalee]

i got sick of reading this and i just wanted to add my thoughts.

i use petroleum products. we all do. but you show me a way i can get 25 miles to my place of employment so that i can feed my family. show me a way to buy bread that doesn't come in a plastic bag. show me how i can choose to power my home for cooling/heating so that we can survive without tapping into oil-based power supplies. show me a manufacturer that doesn't produce products made of plastic. show me a way to get food that isn't cultivated by machines that use oil, either directly or indirectly.

cavscout, i deem this thread as a means to incite flame wars and nothing more. if you put any thought into your argument then you would realize that we really are ill-eqipped to live without oil right now. now matter how you slice it oil is the source of everything we use one way or another. you said yourself that most of us wouldn't survive without it. so that's our fault? are you REALLY sure it's not the fault of the government for not pushing green policies, or mandating that we find alternate sources of energy? you apparently didn't think of hospitals etc that rely on this stuff as much as the average joe. do you think that even if you could live off the grid and be nature's butt buddy that you would be able to get adequate medical care?

think before you post. don't do it just to get everyone riled up and act like you're Jesus himself.

Originally posted by cavscout
See, this right here tells me that you don’t have the mental capacity to understand my argument. You still think I am saying that you are guilty by association.

Oh I don't? I understand your feeble attempt get a rise out of people. I understand your weak argument that we all have blood on our hands. I understand the point you are trying to make. But again, you sitting there insulting people for giving their opinion is NON PRODUCTIVE!!! Can you understand that?!!

What YOU are failing to understand is that ideas like this get us no where. Does your simple mind grasp that? Probably not, but bear with me, I may use some big words.

By setting up these absolutes you force yourself into a box that you will never be able to whine or argue yourself out of. By pandering to people's anger you simply perpetuate this hatred and misunderstanding that is tearing our world apart right now. It is the root cause of why the Sunnis and Shias can't get along. It is why Israel can never coexist with Palestine.

I don’t believe that you really think I started this thread just to piss people off. You aren’t that stupid, at least I don’t think you are. I started this thread because I want people to think about the things they may be doing to further the cause of modern war.

I don't "believe it" -- I KNOW it. You know what furthers the cause of modern war? This crap. This vein, egotistical, selfish pandering for power and attention. If you wrote this to help people realize their role and responsibility with oil, then there 1000 more creative and constructive ways you could do it - but NOOOOO- you have to title the thread "Dear Reader, you are responsible for the oil wars ", and virtually accuse everyone that uses electricity in the US that that they are the ones that are killing our soldiers.

Again, can your brain grasp the slanderous way you have categorized this??

Why do I care that people think about their involvement? Because I have seen war first hand, and it sucks. Because my father and two of my brothers are in Iraq and I want them home. Because I am ashamed of the killing we have done and I want it to stop.

Well so do I! But backing yourself into a corner of absolution and suggesting that until all Americans stop using electricity and drive their cars we will not be guilty of sending our troops to die. That's RIDICULOUS! For someone who claims to be so smart, you sure do keep banging your head against the same wall. It is the same reason why Bush can't CHANGE THE COURSE. Wake up!!

And I am the bad guy?

Get a clue, friend.

Let me make something VERY VERY clear to you. You are NOT my friend. And by using the term friend in the PATRONIZING manor in which you do alerts me to the true nature of your plastic character. You're a fake. A fraud. And you'll never get the attention you're looking for here at ATS, so move on. And stop posting crap.

Originally posted by TruthWithin
It is the root cause of why the Sunnis and Shias can't get along. It is why Israel can never coexist with Palestine.

No, the root cause is intentional division and differing beliefs. It always has been the root cause of conflict between groups of people who don't personally know the other, yet can easily kill them. It's because of religious indoctrination from birth by those in power in order to manipulate populations like puppets for their gain, and it's the reason war will probably never stop, oil is just the current prize to be won. Like others have said, it's been going on since mankind has been on this rock.

People are taking this thread way too seriously and personally, cavscout has seen the true hell of war and is likely deeply pondering why she had to endure seeing such horrific things. She probably comes on here and reads all the posts by those SO against the war, and can see the hypocrisy in the fact that they are feeding the very machine they rage against. There are alot of people on "little" high horses (maybe a miniature horse on a plane?) here.

I see where the OP is coming from on this, however that doesn't stop me from disagreeing with it...

The bottom line is there are two choices, one in which we remove the guilt by shunning all things made using oil and one in which we accept the situation and live on as we have for decades. There is a lot required to put the kind of distance between society and oil, and I'm not just talking about creature comforts. Want to have surgery to fix a broken bone? forget it. Need a rare medicine only found on the other side of the world to survive? start digging the hole. Watching a family member die on the floor from a heart attack, don't wait up for the EMTs with the defibrillator.

Getting rid of the guilt means sacrificing alot more than just your luxury items like a vehicle, it means giving up any source of income to survive, letting family members you love and care about die because to save them would require the use of oil-based products and services. It means diseases running rampant, people dying of things not considered fatal for hundreds of years, in short you would have to kick society as a whole back at least a thousand years.

So could your conscious handle that move, to set the world back and sacrifice numbers far beyond what have already died in 'oil wars'? Willing to give up all that and more to feel no guilt?

I'm sorry but the premise for this thread is flawed from the start, you DO NOT NEED PETROLEUM products at all. I am amazed that so many of you have replied and NOT realized the whole Oil industry is a sham. Everything they the world uses today could be made from no petroleum products that are both cheaper and renewable. The original automobile was NOT run on petroleum. The whole world can still go on without oil and without a tech change. Just use Hemp. thats why Henry Ford wanted to do from the start, BUT there IS alot less profit in it. here are a few references

www.hempcar.org...

www.geocities.com...

www.globalresearch.ca...


so before anyone starts spewing crap about "having to use Oil" it's a crock, Oil is ONLY for profit of a few, we have a better resource, but it's LESS profitable. I use petroleum products ONLY because the current world situation is against using cleaner resources. I would switch to hemp in a heartbeat if I wouldn't be slammed in Jail........................

[edit on 16-8-2007 by thedigirati]

Originally posted by Helig
So could your conscious handle that move, to set the world back and sacrifice numbers far beyond what have already died in 'oil wars'? Willing to give up all that and more to feel no guilt?

Exactly. We're stuck in a catch 22. Until the masses are able to see that they are being manipulated for the gain of a very small number of people, these wars will continue. Is it possible to maintain our way of life without war? Maybe, but it would take everybody on earth throwing aside everything they were intentionally taught from birth by whomever is in power where they are, and working together to find alternate energy sources, etc. so that EVERYBODY on the planet has a chance at a decent life. Sadly, I don't see that happening anytime soon, so we will continue to do the bidding of the few who gain the most while complaining about it.