Adam and Eve; AKA(The Deciever And The Unforgiver)

Originally posted by Jenna

Originally posted by Deus_Brandon
Would love you to provide quotes any where in the bible where God has lied ... Would love to see this ... (FLAME) (FLAME) lol

As requested:

BibleGateway.com
15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

Well, I'll be... Would you look at that? God told Adam if he ate from the tree of knowledge he would surely die. Isn't that something. Let's see what else we can learn.

2
[edit on 15-8-2007 by Jenna]

HAHAHA I LOVE HUMANS ... GOD SAID, ADAM would die ... How do you know how long that he had been living with God in the Garden ? For all you know it could be 10,000,000 years Adam and God had been in the garden before Eve was even placed there. Second of all, Has anyone seen Adam lately ? NO, you say ?? That is because HE DIED !!! Just like God promised him, he would .... He didn't say that Fruit is POISONOUS adam .. if you eat it you will instantly die ... Did he ??? Is that what you are trying to say he said ? Are you trying to put words in God's mouth again ???? HAHAHHAHAHA Let me go back to dubnking the rest of your quote ... BRB

Show me where and how that you know how long that Adam and Eve were in the garden or even when that if any time that God ever planned on kicking them out of the garden of Eden if they hadn't of disobeyed his laws. If you knew anything about scripture or have ever felt the presence of God you know that your human form cannot even take it. You are not really feeling the presence of god just the Holy Spirit in which god left behind for us ... Or I guess Jesus left behind for us.

Originally posted by Jenna
Just wanted to point out that it was a serpent, not the devil, that got Eve to eat the fruit. And the serpent didn't lie. God lied, Adam lied, Eve lied, but the serpent was the only honest one of the bunch.

No flaming please, I can provide quotes if necessary.

I love this post. Absolute truth on Adam, Eve & "God" - Amen Serpent

People have always looked as snakes as evil in history, but thats not the truth at all in this case, it was man who decieved himself.

[edit on 16-8-2007 by burnthemonkeyz1]

Anoma Lee and Jenna,

Very good point, I just realized even more contradictions but I can’t write it right now, just wanted to say great point. I agree, which means who was this Serpent that did tell us the truth? And how much more lies have we got fed over the years? Serpent might know that one

In my other post I wrote:

“The stories about God is long and very complicated, if you ever thought that you can figure out God in few stories then you are mistaking. God is special, (good God), if you want truth, you will have to find it and it want be easy and you might not like what you will find, however it is the truth.”


[edit on 16-8-2007 by VolimteKW]

Originally posted by Deus_Brandon
Show me where and how that you know how long that Adam and Eve were in the garden or even when that if any time that God ever planned on kicking them out of the garden of Eden if they hadn't of disobeyed his laws.

Show me where it says they would live forever if they hadn't eaten from the tree of knowledge. Show me where it says that God wouldn't have kicked them out if they hadn't.

Of course they died at the end of their lifespans. Show me a creature that doesn't. That's how life works. You are born, you live your life, and once your body wears down enough you die. Even trees that can live for hundreds of years still die eventually, it's just a matter of time.

That is how it works now because you know nothing different because of Adam and Eve. This is going to be unfeasable for most of you ... but there is Eternal Life through Jesus and only through Jesus. But before there was sin in the garden what if God , Adam, and Eve were in some way (SPIRIT) were one. But when Adam and Eve let sin into thier lifes (BODIES) god (being so pure) could not even be in the site of them or they would have died. When god came back they hid ... Why would someone hide from thier God ? They knew that he knew where they were ... Or they should have known .. BUT THEY didn't they lost thier minds ... or KNOWING that god knows all ... Because they thought they could become greater .... Aweeee .. And look where we are going every day to try and make mankind greater or to be able to heal a certain diasease ... God has a plan for everyones lifes ... even if you can't understand why a mother lost her unborned child .... God knows .... Or if you lost your dad when you were 8 years old over a drug deal ... (SUCH AS MY WIFE DID) she cannot understand it but she understands god has control of her life and she understands that god will always take care of her. Anyways ... God didn't make you to die ... Did he ????

Originally posted by Jenna

Originally posted by Deus_Brandon
Show me where and how that you know how long that Adam and Eve were in the garden or even when that if any time that God ever planned on kicking them out of the garden of Eden if they hadn't of disobeyed his laws.

Show me where it says they would live forever if they hadn't eaten from the tree of knowledge. Show me where it says that God wouldn't have kicked them out if they hadn't.

Of course they died at the end of their lifespans. Show me a creature that doesn't. That's how life works. You are born, you live your life, and once your body wears down enough you die. Even trees that can live for hundreds of years still die eventually, it's just a matter of time.

Originally posted by Deus_Brandon
But when Adam and Eve let sin into thier lifes (BODIES) god (being so pure) could not even be in the site of them or they would have died. When god came back they hid ... Why would someone hide from thier God ?

They hid because they knew they were naked. They were embarrassed and didn't want to be seen naked. I don't know about you, but I hide my nakedness from others too. That's why we wear clothes, so others don't see us naked unless we want them to. Well, except people who live in nudest colonies.. But hey, whatever floats their collective boat!

Anyways ... God didn't make you to die ... Did he ????

Not yet, but you never know when something might happen. I could be in my car today, tomorrow, next week, next year, and be in a wreck that I could die in. My heart might up and give up on me. A tornado could come and tear my house apart with me in it. I know I'm going to die someday, I just don't know when. Which is why I live my life the best I can and try to enjoy the people and things I have in it while I'm here. Never know what will happen tomorrow, and life is way too short anyway. I prefer to live and let live. I'll believe what I want, and everyone else is more than welcome to believe what they want.

If they hid because they were naked ... Why all the times before when they were together did they never realize that they were naked ?? Possibly because they weren't naked ??? Hmmm .... Makes me ponder .... Anyways ... I agree 100% with the rest of what you said here ..

Originally posted by Jenna

Originally posted by Deus_Brandon
But when Adam and Eve let sin into thier lifes (BODIES) god (being so pure) could not even be in the site of them or they would have died. When god came back they hid ... Why would someone hide from thier God ?

They hid because they knew they were naked. They were embarrassed and didn't want to be seen naked. I don't know about you, but I hide my nakedness from others too. That's why we wear clothes, so others don't see us naked unless we want them to. Well, except people who live in nudest colonies.. But hey, whatever floats their collective boat!

Anyways ... God didn't make you to die ... Did he ????

Not yet, but you never know when something might happen. I could be in my car today, tomorrow, next week, next year, and be in a wreck that I could die in. My heart might up and give up on me. A tornado could come and tear my house apart with me in it. I know I'm going to die someday, I just don't know when. Which is why I live my life the best I can and try to enjoy the people and things I have in it while I'm here. Never know what will happen tomorrow, and life is way too short anyway. I prefer to live and let live. I'll believe what I want, and everyone else is more than welcome to believe what they want.

Here's an even better question ... If you believe in god .... Excludes some of you guys out of the question ... APOLOGIES .... Are you closer to him now or do you think you will be closer to him after you are 6 feet under ?

maybe they didn't know enough to know they shouldn't be naked before??

the knowledge of good and evil....the knowledge, able to judge that which is good, and that which it evil.

the power to chose between the two, free choice!!

God susposedly walked in the Garden with them from time to time...was God also naked when he walked with them, or did he wear something similar to clothing? If he did, then well, adam and eve might have noticed the funny things that God had covering his body, but just didn't think much of it until after they ate the fruit.. then well...even today, clothing is much a statement of wealth and status in the community. God is good, God has clothing....well, we don't have clothing, must be something wrong with us?? we definately don't merit the same status as God, we must way lower than God, or even most of the animals even, since they are clothed in fur at least....and oh, ya, while we're discussing this, why are we worrying about this now? never bothered us before....ummm....oh ya, we ate the fruit that he told us not to...ya. umm.....running into God at the moment might be just a tad BAD.....lest run and hide, maybe he'll be too busy today to hunt us down!!

and we've been picking and chosing what is good and what isn't ever since.
pain is bad, so now, unlike most of the animal kingdom, labor is intensified, since we tend to resist that which we deem bad...
and well, being too poor for clothing was deemed as being bad by adam and eve and they fled God's sight....so, men would end up working their lives away because it's bad not to have the food, clothing and needed essentials today, or tomorrow, or even 50 years from now when you get too old to work!

and, of course adam and eve would soon get into a debate as to which was the better, more worthy, and well, eve was to lose that one, or who knows, maybe she was just the one more apt to give up on the argument for the sake of peace...

before adam and eve ate of the fruit, I think they were more like the animals....running on instinct, not fearing about what would happen later in the day, or next week...or at the end of their years....the lions don't debate for days over the evil of killing the deer, and the deer don't really worry too much about running into the lion on their way to the stream...the sense of thirst just kicks in their instinct, they go for the drink, the sense of danger kicks in and there's the instict to run!!
there is no choice, until one can judge the different actions one can make and chose which one is the best, which ones are fair, and which ones can really cause problems...

the choice that was made in the garden was one to be more than the animals...and to be closer to what God is...
and I think that we made the choice that God wanted us to, although maybe we made it sooner than he wished.

Originally posted by Deus_Brandon
If they hid because they were naked ... Why all the times before when they were together did they never realize that they were naked ?? Possibly because they weren't naked ??? Hmmm .... Makes me ponder .... Anyways ... I agree 100% with the rest of what you said here ..

Maybe because they didn't know they were naked until they ate the fruit? Or maybe they didn't feel embarrassed about it until they ate the fruit? It was the fruit that gave them knowledge after all. Maybe nakedness was something they had no knowledge of prior to eating the fruit.

Here's an even better question ... If you believe in god .... Excludes some of you guys out of the question ... APOLOGIES .... Are you closer to him now or do you think you will be closer to him after you are 6 feet under ?

Technically I'm excluded from this question, but if there is a God I don't think anybody living or dead is as close to him as they think they are regardless of what flavor of religion they follow.

[edit on 17-8-2007 by Jenna]

Originally posted by Jenna
Maybe because they didn't know they were naked until they ate the fruit? Or maybe they didn't feel embarrassed about it until they ate the fruit? It was the fruit that gave them knowledge after all. Maybe nakedness was something they had no knowledge of prior to eating the fruit.

Maybe the fruit of knowledge invited lust and desire. The physical sensations that previously hadn't been activated at which time they saw more naked and the lust repeated and for some reason they choose to feel ashamed about their nakedness. Nakedness shouldn't feel shameful, but I suppose it could have brought on guilty feelings if they had sensual relationships with the embodiment of Lucifer, the beautiful Angel who wouldn't except his status as less than God. Just like Lilith who wouldn't except her status as less that Adam.

Here's an even better question ... If you believe in god .... Excludes some of you guys out of the question ... APOLOGIES .... Are you closer to him now or do you think you will be closer to him after you are 6 feet under ?

Now of course not how will a pile of rotting flesh with no electrical activity feel anything!

Technically I'm excluded from this question, but if there is a God I don't think anybody living or dead is as close to him as they think they are regardless of what flavor of religion they follow.

[edit on 17-8-2007 by Jenna]

The part about "regardless of whatever flavor of religion they follow" brought a laugh to my morning I went to a church for a minute who believed they could exorcise all the little hangers on demons of your auric space by having you cough them out. OMG! I coughed so hard I wet my pants and began faking that I felt them coming out just because it was obviously not working and they weren't giving up!.

They also want you to name everyone you had sex with so as to eliminate the stringy wisp that is said to attach to lovers. And people if it ever happens to you and you can't remember each and every name. Don't be ashamed like your fictitious ancestors, just make up a number under 10.

What if when they ate of the fruit it changed them for the WORSE ?? Has anyone ever thought that all of the information that we have has been through Humans writings. (ALTHOUGH INSPIRED BY GOD) ... I wonder sometimes what we really truly know about the true almighty.

Originally posted by Deus_Brandon
What if when they ate of the fruit it changed them for the WORSE ?? Has anyone ever thought that all of the information that we have has been through Humans writings. (ALTHOUGH INSPIRED BY GOD) ... I wonder sometimes what we really truly know about the true almighty.

It seems like a setup all the way around. If mankind was made in the likeness and image of the gods, then of course they would want to do what they were born to do. Be gods in our own right. We make decisions, we suffer consequences and we get rewards based on our own choice making. It seems to be inherent in our species to desire to live by our own wits, learn our own lessens, and express the aspects of god we have incorporated into our being.

To feel feelings, to make judgements on what is right and wrong, etc. Possibily there is redemption made into the plan somewhere so that when we realize that we really aren't equipped to be a God (whatever that is) we will learn another way to be. Maybe God is imperfect and hopes to perfect himself/herself through us as parts of its own body becoming aware of letting go of the I and accepting the us.

The fruit is simply the ability to think for oneself, or the awareness of our individually. We were made with the faculties (brains, senses, etc) to do this and naturally we are using all the gifts that we were given as humans. The outcome? Who knows? We won't know we will just keep searching for the truth and maybe someday one who does know will whisper in our ear.

Originally posted by interestedalways
Nakedness shouldn't feel shameful, but I suppose it could have brought on guilty feelings if they had sensual relationships with the embodiment of Lucifer, the beautiful Angel who wouldn't except his status as less than God. Just like Lilith who wouldn't except her status as less that Adam.

I agree that nakedness shouldn't feel shameful, but there are few people who will willingly let everyone see them in their birthday suit. Now what's this talk of sensual relationships with Lucifer? First I've heard of that. And I don't know much about Lilith, but I like her already.

The part about "regardless of whatever flavor of religion they follow" brought a laugh to my morning I went to a church for a minute who believed they could exorcise all the little hangers on demons of your auric space by having you cough them out.

Glad I could bring some laughter into someone's day! Most religions are basically the same, so it's kinda like going to Baskin Robbins with their 31 flavors. It's all ice cream, it's just a matter of deciding which version you like best and if you like nuts in it.

Originally posted by Deus_Brandon
What if when they ate of the fruit it changed them for the WORSE ??

Personally I'd rather have knowledge and not live in the Garden of Eden, than be completely clueless about everything and live in paradise.

Has anyone ever thought that all of the information that we have has been through Humans writings. (ALTHOUGH INSPIRED BY GOD) ... I wonder sometimes what we really truly know about the true almighty.

Thus the reason I don't put much stock in books that are claimed to be the word of God. If there's a God and he wants me to know something, he can tell me himself. Told plenty of other people according to the bible, so what's stopping him from talking to people now?


[edit on 19-8-2007 by Jenna]

Where you would rather be knowlegable (that is so not how you spell that) ... about a certain subject I would rather be in God's will. If it were his will that we were knowledgeable about GOOD/EVIL then in time he would have showed us Good/Evil but in the context that they learned Good and Evil was more than just a MORAL STEP ... It was a REALITY CHANGE .... Put it this way ... If you can even try to beging to comprehend it ... and I say that only because I can only begin to grasp the concept myself and I believe with my whole heart.


If you raised a kid to not know how to speak and just live with the basic CONCEPT of trusting everything around him ... Yet never use words or anything that he could LEARN from ... then put him out in the world with the people that WILL TAKE ADVANTAGE of you ... or anyone for a price. Then the person's knowledge would GREATLY change quickly if that person did not DIE that SAME DAY!

I agree that you don't hear of stories like you used to in the bible days of god writing something on a Wall in Blood or sending down angels to confirm something that he has said. I think many a day on this subject. hence the reason I started a couple other threads that pretty much say that we used to Communicate without Speech ... Whether it be through hand gestures or what not ...Although , we used to not have to communicate that much information EITHER... So... I would say it made it MUCH MORE EASIER to communicate .. I want to trade you this squirrel for that Fish ... or Whatever the case be. People didn't fight wars because of religion back ... and yes I am talking WAYYYY back ... before anything was recorded ... People would have just wanted to live the best that they could .... At least that is what I have imagined. Yet, slowly the world changed due to probably a SELFISH , UNRULY person that wanted more than the person could actually have ... I COULD COME UP WITH MANY SCENARIOS but that is where I usually lose you guys so I will stop here ... YOu know something about the Rabbit Hole .... HAHAHHAHA ...

Originally posted by Deus_Brandon
Where you would rather be knowlegable (that is so not how you spell that) ... about a certain subject I would rather be in God's will. If it were his will that we were knowledgeable about GOOD/EVIL then in time he would have showed us Good/Evil but in the context that they learned Good and Evil was more than just a MORAL STEP ... It was a REALITY CHANGE

Well now the argument could be made that if we weren't supposed to have access to knowledge, there wouldn't have been a "Tree of Knowledge" in the first place. That's another thing that never made sense to me. God is supposed to know everything, every choice we have made or will ever make, yet he didn't realize that by putting something in the garden of Eden and saying "Don't touch" Eve would touch it, eat it, and share it. Maybe it's just me, but that doesn't make any sense. Knows everything else, but not that they would eat the fruit, not where they were in the garden when they were hiding their nakedness, not why they were hiding to begin with, not how they knew they were naked... I could go on, but that's a topic for a different thread...

Anyway, yes I would rather have knowledge. I by no means claim to know everything about anything. There are certainly plenty of areas where I'm about as knowledgeable as a six year old. But I would still rather have the opportunity and ability to learn about whatever I want to learn about than have some invisible guy in some unfindable place decide what I do and do not need to know. I'd rather put my faith in myself, because I know that I will always be there when I need me.

Don't get me wrong, I was raised Christian and was a firm believer until almost 4 years ago. I could give you the exact day down to the minute when I stopped believing in the Christian God. I won't go into details, but it was a defining moment in my life that I will remember until the day that I die. There had been numerous things that led up to it, but there came a point that was the figurative straw that broke the camel's back.

By all means, carry on believing in God's will. Rely on it, believe in it, do it. I wish you nothing but happiness. His will wasn't all that great for me, thus I gladly choose knowledge over God.

Anyway, moving on. Your example about raising a child to trust everyone but not teaching him to speak confused me a bit. What does not teaching him to speak have to do with teaching him to trust everyone? I understand the part about him being taken advantage of or even killed if he doesn't know that some people can't be trusted, but what does that have to do with not learning to speak?

People didn't fight wars because of religion back ... and yes I am talking WAYYYY back ... before anything was recorded ... People would have just wanted to live the best that they could .... At least that is what I have imagined. Yet, slowly the world changed due to probably a SELFISH , UNRULY person that wanted more than the person could actually have.

Maybe not over religion, but I'm sure they killed each other all the time over land, women, food, etc. etc. Just because they may not have fought over religion doesn't mean that they all lived in harmony. People are by nature jealous of what others have. We all want to be rich, have gigantic houses that a small army could live in, wear the most expensive clothes, drive the most expensive cars. Some people manage to do that, but most don't. Instead we watch reality TV and watch other people live in houses we would like to live in, and drive cars that we want to drive, etc.

Jealousy is human nature and so is being selfish. Just go to Wal-Mart for the Thanksgiving and Christmas sales and you'll see what I mean. 60 year old women fist-fighting over playstations. People coming close to being killed because someone else wants the (insert product name here) and will do anything to get it. The world doesn't change due to one selfish person, it changes because we are all that way to varying degrees. What does it have to do with God not talking through burning bushes anymore though? I don't see the connection.

[edit on 23-8-2007 by Jenna]

As god knows everything. And he knew he had given us "FREEWILL" how else could he have let it be freewill unless there was ONE single thing that he would say that we cannot do. That wouldn't be good for us. In the old days it was against god's law to eat unclean fish ... Bottom dwelling fish such as Catfish ... Yet, today we scarf them down like they are french fries. Why do you think this is ?

reply to post by Deus_Brandon



Perhaps because we realized that a fish is a fish. Perhaps some fisherman was out in his boat one day and that's what he caught and his choice was eat it or starve so he ate it, and lo and behold it was good. Maybe we humans came to the realization one day that if you eat something and it doesn't kill you or make you deathly ill, then it's ok to eat it.