IQ and 911

It was asked earlier in this thread whether or not anyone had met someone who was "book smart" who lacked common sense. While I, being only twenty five years of age, obviously didn't know him, Einstein had difficulty washing his own hair and matching his socks. It is certainly possible to be possessed of a high intelligence quotient and yet appear to lack what others would perceive as common sense. Likewise, it is possible to be possessed of extensive, encyclopedic knowledge, and have an average or even below average intelligence quotient.

I knew a friend who scored very low on a written IQ test, but when tested verbally, was found to literally be a genius. Of course, he had Asperger's syndrome, which serves as a reminder of the wide array of thinking and learning styles and the influence that various conditions can have upon them.

It's also important to take into account right brain and left brain dominance, in my opinion. What about musically gifted individuals who can't read or write music?

i found this on the web a few months ago found it quite interesting

Originally posted by AceWombat04
It was asked earlier in this thread whether or not anyone had met someone who was "book smart" who lacked common sense. While I, being only twenty five years of age, obviously didn't know him, Einstein had difficulty washing his own hair and matching his socks.

Not to be unkind, but you've fallen for an urban legend.

He wasn't interested in being a "fashion plate" of the era, but if you look at the photos of him throughout his life (even when he was a bachelor), you will find that he most certainly knew what a comb and shampoo were for, and he had a rather nice sense of style (though nothing flashy.)

It's also important to take into account right brain and left brain dominance, in my opinion. What about musically gifted individuals who can't read or write music?

Talent isn't the same thing as intelligence, though people often confuse the two.

Originally posted by Conundrum04
I'm not sure if this topic goes against ATS policy or if it's been brought up in the past. But I personally think that it's important to understand where a persons mind is at when discussing important topics such as the events that happened and led up to "9/11" and the subsequent strategic disasters after the event.

You're falling into a very narrow worldview of "People who think like me are the only intelligent and rational people in the world and everyone else is a sheeplike moron who is a victim of the establishment."

As others have pointed out, you will find high levels of world awareness and experience AND varying IQs on both sides of the fence. I don't buy into the big conspiracy at all... and I've worked for the government, have relatives with top security clearances (including my husband... so I know quite a bit about the policies and environment and whistleblowing) -- and I was a member of Mensa and qualified for Intertel:
en.wikipedia.org...(group)

Originally posted by Conundrum04If you can't multiple 12x12 divide it by 2 then add 28 in your head, how can you figure out what's really going on in the world?

The answer is 100 by the way.

Here's a test for you:

Into how many parts can you divide a circle with four straight lines?

Only Conundrum04 can answer this one, please.

(BTW, it's not 'obsolute', it's 'absolute'...and 'wiser', not 'more wiser'.)

The whole issue about iq is really touchy. I personally feel that the test is a measure on how well you can fit inside the present "system", and not a measure of actually inteligence.

Ya gotta love it. People touting high IQ (it's capitalized, btw) and misspell 'intelligence'.

Might be time to retake that IQ test, bro.

Edit: (not trying to be mean, just kidding around with ya)

[edit on 12-8-2007 by Badge01]

Originally posted by TKainZero

Originally posted by earth2
I just realized something.
Am I the only one who couldnt calculate 12x12 divided by 2 plus 28 = 100 in their head.
I think I just lost 100 points on my iq test. Now I have a -28 iq...

Im a math guy, and it took me a few senconds to figure it out in my head, the reason for the length is that i am a Mathamatician, not an Arithimision.

Heh, a mathematician that can't spell; typical.

Incidentally, it's Arithmetician, and it means approximately the same thing as a mathematician.

I think what you're searching for is an instant calculator or a human calculator, often autistic savants.

To the OP:

I don't know if critical thinking is directly proportional to what is referred to as IQ (I suspect it is), but what you are referring to is critical thinking abilities. A lot of people (on both sides of the 911 debate) seem to lack critical thinking abilities.

Now, with that said, I'd like to address your statement about some people being unable to connect A to B let alone A to Z. While there do seem to be some folks that can't make the A to B connection - which is a sign of a lack of critical thinking - there are also those who request that others connect A to Z while leaving out B thru Y. That second tendency is also a sign of a lack of critical thinking. Some people assume it's okay to have flaming logic gaps in their convoluted theory - and then expect us all to just ignore those gaps.


[edit on 8-12-2007 by Valhall]

Originally posted by Conundrum04

I can go outside myself and put myself in someone else's shoes and understand why they do the things they do through MATH.

Sometimes I'll know what someone will do before they do it before, because of simple mathematics.

So your able to read minds and predict the future with math?

I would love to see how that works.

Originally posted by Badge01

Originally posted by Conundrum04If you can't multiple 12x12 divide it by 2 then add 28 in your head, how can you figure out what's really going on in the world?

The answer is 100 by the way.

Here's a test for you:

Into how many parts can you divide a circle with four straight lines?

Only Conundrum04 can answer this one, please.

(BTW, it's not 'obsolute', it's 'absolute'...and 'wiser', not 'more wiser'.)

The whole issue about iq is really touchy. I personally feel that the test is a measure on how well you can fit inside the present "system", and not a measure of actually inteligence.

Ya gotta love it. People touting high IQ (it's capitalized, btw) and misspell 'intelligence'.

Might be time to retake that IQ test, bro.

Edit: (not trying to be mean, just kidding around with ya)

[edit on 12-8-2007 by Badge01]

WOW.

You really like to come down on people with their lack of spelling and capitalization abilities. I have to watch out for you. I must admit that I did have a few too many last night(it's my birthday this weekend so I was pretty sloshed). Having said that, I must have made sense in my OP sense I've gotten over 20 replies.

And for your brain teaser: The answer is 10 or greater(I got 10, then gave up).

Whoops! Just saw your edit.

It's all good bro.

Originally posted by Conundrum04

You really like to come down on people with their lack of spelling and capitalization abilities. I have to watch out for you. I must admit that I did have a few too many last night(it's my birthday this weekend so I was pretty sloshed). Having said that, I must have made sense in my OP sense I've gotten over 20 replies.

And for your brain teaser: The answer is 10 or greater(I got 10, then gave up).

Whoops! Just saw your edit.

It's all good bro.

Glad to see you took my comments with good humor.

BTW, nope, the answer isn't 10.

Edit: The realization that the above poster has already hit it with the spelling.

conundrum

It's a good thing that correct spelling does not determine your IQ.


Your intelligence as far as I'm concerned is based on your ability to remember. The way that you use your memory and how it's stored within your brain. Being able to do math equations in your head at a fast rate of speed has to do with the ability your brain has to pull the data from your memory. It also comes down to what you have in your storage. If you've never taken any math courses it does not make you unintelligent,just that you don't any data of it. So you can't base intelligence the way that you do.

Anyone that claims that they are more intelligent than the next is an idiot. Take two people who claim they are morre intelligent than the other for example, where each person asks three questions to the other about anything at all. You can pretty much guarantee that each person cannot answer the others questions. So what is intelligence?

[edit on 12-8-2007 by I See You]

[edit on 12-8-2007 by I See You]

Originally posted by Byrd
Not to be unkind, but you've fallen for an urban legend.

Enlightening someone is one of the kindest things you can do in my opinion, so I don't find that statement unkind at all. On the contrary, I'm grateful to you for informing me of my mistake. Ego should have no role in the quest for truth in my opinion, so I must always remain humble and open-minded enough to learn from others and be prepared to be wrong more often than I am correct. Let this be a lesson to all with respect to how easily information can be woven into popular culture and taken as fact. I recalled seeing news reports of Einstein's love letters in which he complained about having to wash his own hair and how difficult it was for him, but the sock matching element was something I simply heard often enough to take as having been true. This is an example of how we should not take anything even those in the position of being our teachers tell us at face value without first verifying it with other sources. The people who told me about his "sock dilemma" included elementary school teachers!

Originally posted by Byrd
Talent isn't the same thing as intelligence, though people often confuse the two.

I agree of course, however one's capacity for intuitive spatial reasoning and other traits that play into talents such as musical ability can influence how well they score on an IQ test, even when those same traits aren't necessarily contributing to what many would call common sense. As with everything this varies, of course. My intent was to suggest that someone can lack what some perceive as common sense and "book smarts," while still being a highly intelligent individual. That said, I completely agree with you that talent - or "giftedness" - and intelligence are two different things, no matter how related or unrelated they may be in different situations and in different tasks.

Originally posted by I See You
Your intelligence as far as I'm concerned is based on your ability to remember. The way that you use your memory and how it's stored within your brain. Being able to do math equations in your head at a fast rate of speed has to do with the ability your brain has to pull the data from your memory. It also comes down to what you have in your storage. If you've never taken any math courses it does not make you unintelligent,just that you don't any data of it. So you can't base intelligence the way that you do.

I'd agree that IQ or intelligence is not always related to math skills. There are probably many lightning calculators who can't figure out how to open a child-proof bottle cap, .

I'd expect that anyone touting high IQ would at least post with correct spelling and grammar, and have no logical inconsistencies within their argument.

According to Wiki:

Intelligence is a property of mind that encompasses many related abilities, such as the capacities to reason, plan, solve problems, think abstractly, comprehend ideas and language, and learn.

In fact some skills, such as those needed to rotate a three-dimensional object in space might be common among those with dyslexia. Some think that the dyslexics are unconsciously rotating the letters and thus misplacing them.

Originally posted by Valhall
To the OP:

I don't know if critical thinking is directly proportional to what is referred to as IQ (I suspect it is), but what you are referring to is critical thinking abilities. A lot of people (on both sides of the 911 debate) seem to lack critical thinking abilities.

Now, with that said, I'd like to address your statement about some people being unable to connect A to B let alone A to Z. While there do seem to be some folks that can't make the A to B connection - which is a sign of a lack of critical thinking - there are also those who request that others connect A to Z while leaving out B thru Y. That second tendency is also a sign of a lack of critical thinking. Some people assume it's okay to have flaming logic gaps in their convoluted theory - and then expect us all to just ignore those gaps.


[edit on 8-12-2007 by Valhall]

I totally agree with you.

I'm one of those persons that can learn and master a system but can't teach it to someone. I'll start at A then get to M, but I won't stop there to teach and educate others because I constantly want to learn more to get to Z and beyond. But I'm not one to look down on someone that hasn't figured out what I have already solved however.

This whole deal with "911" makes it even more complicated because, like an equation, you need all the variables in the right places to solve the problem. Because the US gov. isn't giving us the info(variables) we need to solve this problem for ourselves, we need to figure out what these variables are on our own to input into our "911" equation. This is why there are so many theories out there about what "actually happened" that day. People are filling in the gaps(supplying their own variables) to answer this "911" equation.

Now the reason for this post is for the understanding about this equation. There are those people that will believe 100% what people in authority tells them to believe. But I figure if you do have a higher IQ(I capitalized it! ), you have the reasoning skills and the ability to think on your own, without influence, to solve complicated problems.

Of course, I could be completely wrong though.

[edit on 12-8-2007 by Conundrum04]

Well, one thing I believe is paramount to critical thinking is this philosophy...

the more variables in a theory (model) the less likely it's the right model for what occurred. It's the KISS principle (keep it simple stupid) and it's just another way of looking at Occam's Razor. Start with the most obvious explanation and then and only when the most obvious explanation has been eliminated do you precede to the more complicated explanation.

So a critical thinker will tend to have less letters in their alphabet and most likely only slowly and methodically add any.

P.S. That tendency to only hesitatingly add variables to the system should not be viewed as a lack of IQ, but in contrast, a critical thinking conservation to ensure the model is as accurate as can be obtained.


[edit on 8-12-2007 by Valhall]

As a follow up to my last post I'll speak in math for a minute.

In analytical modeling of natural phenomena the HOTs (higher order terms) refine the model - but they don't necessarily add a single variable. Such is the case in the synthetic modeling of a theory to explain historical events that involve human activities. The details will act as the HOTs in the model/theory - but not necessarily complicate the theory (i.e. add more parameters)...they need not add such things as mass involvement with unwieldy number of agencies and thousands of people being able to keep a secret

Originally posted by Badge01


Glad to see you took my comments with good humor.

BTW, nope, the answer isn't 10.

Hey now!!! I said it was 10 or greater(to cover my arse). I never said "the answer IS 10".

Come on!! Bring on another brain teaser!!! I dare ya! I double dare ya!!

IQ would be no real measurement of a topic like 911.

If we look at the general conspiracy theories we may see low IQ people involved in certain aspects as they are being used by others with higher IQs.

Also the subject of 911 is not really just a matter of IQ, or intellect.

Some really intelligent people are clouded by the passion of the event and this could cloud their judgement, forcing them to deny any suggestion of contradictory evidence.

Also some stupid people are happy to kill all muslims!

The 911 arguments usually turn into a barage of credibility with people citing references to their own intellect or experience that would seem to further their point.

Arguments over explosives, demolitions, trade or even military planning in the 911 contexts often give rise to would be experts. And its my job so I know more than post number xxx for example.

So IQ as a scale would present nothing really in the arguments of the 911 issue. As some very intelligent research can always be backed up with a stupid comment. As can some very stupid research be intelligently presented.

As for IQ running the country and elected officials and people in power being of reasonable IQ.

Well a lot of psychopaths can score 140+ in IQ tests......

Ok, I think 9/11 was an inside job, and according to some online IQ test I took several years ago I had a 128. So I'm about 8 points stupider than you.

Talent isn't the same thing as intelligence, though people often confuse the two.

I actualle need to disagree with this last sentence, there are different forms of intelligence and one of them its for example the predisposition for music.
I actually find more genius and intelligence in some classical composition than many other so called sciences.

Here are a few type of intelligence but I believe there a few hundreds more at least.

1. Linguistic
Children with this kind of intelligence enjoy writing, reading, telling stories or doing crossword puzzles.
2. Logical-Mathematical
Children with lots of logical intelligence are interested in patterns, categories and relationships. They are drawn to arithmetic problems, strategy games and experiments.
3. Bodily-Kinesthetic
These kids process knowledge through bodily sensations. They are often athletic, dancers or good at crafts such as sewing or woodworking.
4. Spatial
These children think in images and pictures. They may be fascinated with mazes or jigsaw puzzles, or spend free time drawing, building with Leggos or daydreaming.
5. Musical
Musical children are always singing or drumming to themselves. They are usually quite aware of sounds others may miss. These kids are often discriminating listeners.
6. Interpersonal
Children who are leaders among their peers, who are good at communicating and who seem to understand others' feelings and motives possess interpersonal intelligence.
7. Intrapersonal
These children may be shy. They are very aware of their own feelings and are self-motivated.