Minorities Becoming Majority in Some Areas

Originally posted by ANOK
Then look at the fact that you're more likely to be arrested and convicted if you are black.

I feel your implication is that it's only because they're black that they're getting arrested. You neglect to mention the fact that if Blacks haven't done something to be arrested and convicted for, they won't be...

Or do you believe law enforcement simply cruises the streets and picks out a minority at random to cuff and stuff in the backseat on whatever random charge first comes to mind?

What you consider racial bias, I consider professional competence due to what the statistics show. You need to remember that even though Officers are paying closer attention to the minorities, they can't simply arrest them on the grounds they're a minority.

I will add to my previous statement though ...

I agree, if people don't want to JOIN the country, but just exploit it, that is a BAD thing. Illegal immigration from ANY country should be intolerable, and terms for instant deportation, and a plan worked out for retribution through services rendered from their country of origin ... to payback the cost of catching, detaining, and transportation back to their homeland.


I stand by all my previous statements on minorities of legal residence ... equal regardless of what lies and deceit people try to put out there.

I have watched profiling happen in front of me, to good friends. In fact, I have been profiled for the most unreasonable excuses. I was pulled over and my vehicle searched for sitting at a stop sign too long on a road that had no outlets, just led to trailers ... I was changing a CD before pulling onto the highway, I saw them watching me and I SHOWED in plain sight what I was doing, the case, the removal of the cd, and replacement of the other cd, I had no passengers ... didn't matter, even though they watched me from the median just across from me ... a divided two-lane each side highway, and I was behind the stop sign, not creeped up like some people do. I was pulled over because 'a vehicle matching mine' robbed a fast food chain ... they searched me and my car AFTER I heard the dispatch say a different color car, different color shirt, and different color skin than I was. Both times I asked why I was being searched, then they asked me to sit on the hood of their car and why I was being difficult if I didn't have anything to hide. Harrassment by profiling? YES. There were more instances than that. Let me say this though, I have never been arrested ...

I know what it is like to be treated unfairly. Poor neighborhoods really do get 'special' treament. I live in a better area than some friend can afford ... so their trailer park was watched. Not their fault. Even for the average joe, two incomes are necessary just to get the bills paid unless you are priveledged. Not all college grads make the money they went to school for.

Don't pre-judge ... unless you have been in their shoes, and lived by someone's side ... you have NO right to assume and make accusations about groups of people ... sometimes statistics/data is misleading.

xmotex, I'll try a different approach with you since merely stating facts and figures doesn't seem to pan out well.

Yes, because you apparently don't understand basic math.
When 1/7 th of the population represents nearly 1/2 of the murder victims, that means blacks are far more likely than whites to be murdered. Almost four times as likely.

Duh.

It's no secret that the crime problem is worse in black communities than in white ones.

Blacks are far more likely to be poor, far more likely to be unemployed, far more likely to come from broken families - all facts that correlate with crime rates. So it's no surprise that blacks represent a higher percentage of both criminal perpetrators and crime victims...

So what's your theory?

Do you think blacks are somehow biologically inherently more likely to be criminals?

If so, what do you propose as a solution?

Maybe a return to legally mandated segregation?

Death camps?

Enough with the badly disguised hidden agendas already, just come out with what you're trying to say.

In some instances I dont have a problem with racial profiling by law enforcement officers.
For example lets look at the profile of a potential or convicted terrorist.
Id say that 99% of the time he is a muslim and add that to the fact that probably 99% of muslims are of middle eastern descent.
So you tell me why it is wrong for a TSA screener to pull ALL persons that look middle eastern out of a line and do a more thorough search on them.
That is in addition to other people that could fit the profile but are not of middle eastern descent.
In other words, dont just search them and them only, you gotta search others as well, no matter if theyre white, black, yellow or brown.

Originally posted by xmotex
When 1/7 th of the population represents nearly 1/2 of the murder victims, that means blacks are far more likely than whites to be murdered. Almost four times as likely.

You still have utterly failed in your quest to invalidate the fact that statistically there are more White homicide victims than Blacks.

I've provided multiple sources of statistics (proof) to back up my position with facts. Your entire rebuttal consists of nothing more than to continue illuding to it in various ways that a larger percentage of the Black population dies by homicide than that of the White population, which although true and never disputed by me does NOT in any... way... shape... or... form... mean that nationally "Blacks are far more likely than Whites to be murdered", a notion which you've insisted from the beginning but which you have miserably failed to provide proof of.

On the contrary, as I've pointed out various times via multiple sources that according to national statistics, it is Whites that are far more likely than Blacks to be murdered. I've provided studies, reports and statistics that show this to be clear and undisputed fact. You have yet to provide any evidence to the contrary and you won't, because no such evidence exists.

You either are voluntarily refusing to accept the facts on the issue and thus choose to spin things to support a viewpoint that has nothing to do with the debate of which race constitutes the bulk of homicide victims in America... Or perhaps your sensitivities regarding any type of racial issue are clouding your comprehension skills to the point that you simply can not absorb the facts set forth in plain English in the United States Department of Justice 29 year study of in depth homicide statistics.

As for your other comments to me, among them "Enough with the badly disguised hidden agendas already, just come out with what you're trying to say.", it doesn't reflect well on your character or cause if you resort to cheap racist insinuations just because you've lost a simple debate due to a complete failure to present any facts which support your position.

I think my time would be spent more productively banging my head repeatedly into a concrete wall in the hopes of opening a window

I've pointed out the same fact again and again: if blacks are only 13% of the population, but are 47% of the murder victims, that means blacks are almost four times as likely as whites to get murdered.

It's very simple math, not rocket science.

Yes, there are more white murder victims.
That's because there are many more whites, period.
There are more white heart attack victims, more whites killed in car accidents, more whites killed by falling rocks, etc etc... because there are more whites.

But take any random group of 10,000 blacks and 10,000 whites, and of those, you'll find that four times as many blacks get murdered.

Originally posted by xmotex


But take any random group of 10,000 blacks and 10,000 whites, and of those, you'll find that four times as many blacks get murdered.

Yea and four times more likely to commit a crime. How much you wanna bet that the majority of the black people murdered are murdered by black people?
I still dont get your point in all this? So theres more blacks killed than there are white people, per capita?
whats your point?

My point is that pointing out only that blacks are more likely to commit crimes, without also pointing out that they're just as much more likely to be the victims of crimes, is fundamentally dishonest.

Not to mention that when I've seen people posting this kind of thing before, they've always turned out to be doing stealth recruiting for white power groups.

It's a psywar tactic: create a narrative of "poor white victims", under siege by "rampaging black thugs", to get the racism boiling, and then recruit...

The reality is not so simple - yeah sure, the crime problem is worse in black communities. But the vast majority of victims of crimes committed by blacks are also black.

When I consider that a small minority group comprising barely over a tenth of the nation's population, are responsible for over half of the homicides in this country (with the majority of victims being White) and account for nearly half the nations prison population which are fed and cared for by taxpayer dollars (the overwhelming majority of which are provided by Whites)... I frankly do not see the value in arguing there would be more Black homicide victims per capita if Whites and Blacks were in equal number.

Originally posted by xmotex
Not to mention that when I've seen people posting this kind of thing before, they've always turned out to be doing stealth recruiting for white power groups.

It's a psywar tactic: create a narrative of "poor white victims", under siege by "rampaging black thugs", to get the racism boiling, and then recruit...

That is a pretty offensive accusation, post the proof of your claims and why you feel reason to suspect such things.

I'm reporting your comment to a mod, that was a pretty low dig xmotex.

No, what it is, is bull crap and I'm not talking about the statistics. I'm talking about the fact that whenever someone tries to speak out about the rampant crime in the black and hispanic communities that person is automatically labeled a racist bigot.
The same thing happens to people that speak out about Israel and Jews. Those seem to be the only ones that talking about them creates a controversy.
Stats dont lie, and when 50% of the crimes are committed by a group that comprises only 13% of the population then there IS a problem, no two ways about it.
Hell, there have even been other black leaders speaking out about this. Guess what happens to him when he does? He is called an Uncle Tom or a traitor. Untill society is allowed to acknowledge that a problem exists then it will be next to impossible to repair that problem.
But as long as mentioning it is taboo and the problem is ignored, then it'll just get worse.
I just dont understand the point still.. while my point is blatantly clear. The majority of crimes committed in the USA are committed by a minority people, period.
Yes the stats do show that per capita more blacks are dying than whites are but all that tells me is that these blacks are being murdered in black communities by other black people, not "white supremacists" or members of the KKK, so I dont even know why you throw that in there.. every time someone argues these points, the race card is thrown down, which is why these arguments are never taken seriously and will take forever to be resolved, if ever.

Originally posted by seeingevil
I feel your implication is that it's only because they're black that they're getting arrested. You neglect to mention the fact that if Blacks haven't done something to be arrested and convicted for, they won't be...

All I'm trying to point out is that there are more blacks in jail because black neighborhoods are policed more. While that white guy breaks into your house, five black guys are getting patted down and arrested for a simple drug violation.

Do you just refuse to believe that blacks are stopped and searched 5x more often than whites? 5x more likely to be arrested and booked than whites.
And you wonder why I think the stats showing blacks to be more criminal are miss-leading?

It has been proved that cops racially profile. It's really naive to think otherwise...

Is racial profiling real? Most Americans think so. A July 2001 Gallup poll reported that 55 percent of whites and 83 percent of blacks believe racial profiling is widespread. And the reports of thousands of racial and ethnic group members across the country add credibility to the perception that racial profiling is real.

Racial Profiling: Old and New

Anok I've already commented on every point you just raised, read back through my previous posts.

The gist of it is though is that due to the statistics, law enforcement are only exercising professional competence in being more cautious and aware with minorities and minority neighborhoods. It's misconstrued as racial discrimination when in reality they're merely doing their job competently by keeping a closer eye on those whom statistics prove are more likely to commit crimes.

Do you just refuse to believe that blacks are stopped and searched 5x more often than whites? 5x more likely to be arrested and booked than whites.

You only want to see the stats that favor your opinion, while ignoring the other ones. Like the stat that could explain why blacks claim to be stopped 5 times more often than whites, Id have to say that it is because blacks commit 5 times more crimes than whites do.
So with that information and those stats, everything should be crystal clear for you but no you only want to list whatever supports your opinion and by doing that you lose all respect and credibility, at least you do with me and in this thread.
That is just my opinion, I dont speak for anyone else.
Id also like to point out that according to your "stats" blacks are stopped and searched and of those stopped and searched that go to jail, well they most likely were breaking the law or had warrants. So that tells me that if this is indeed racial profiling, then it seems to be working.
So, I ask again. Whats the problem?
Besides that, I am willing to bet that those that are stopped werent stopped just because of their color, most likely once they have the attention of LE they watch them closer. Then while watching them, they notice that they are acting nervous or suspicious, that gives them even more of a reason to pull them over.





[edit on 8/10/2007 by Kr0n0s]

^Well I'm really not surprised you see it that way. That's why we have a racial problem in the good-ol'-boy USA....

It's not like I have an agenda to make you see it my way, I'm white but I live in a majority black inner city neighborhood, I see it everyday.

You on the other hand are just reacting to what the media tells you, and the media is very good at spinning the facts to encourage you to think in a certain way.

In all our decadence people die....

The last thing in the world that could influence me is the Media. In fact, until I seen the stat page that one of you guys put up I really had no idea of the exact figures but I pretty much already knew, the stats just confirmed what I believed.
My opinions are pretty much my own, the last thing in the world that could influence me is the media. What I know and believe about this topic derived from basic life experiences.
Even with the data right there in front of you, you cant seem to admit youre wrong.
You say that blacks are singled out for searches because of their color, as you put it they are 5 times more likely to be stopped.
Well stopping a person is one thing, hell ive been stopped many times but I dont go to jail when im stopped, the reason for that is because ive done nothing wrong.
You want to use their color as an excuse as to why they are arrested 5 times more than a white person, well I dont believe that. They are arrested because they are breaking the law, period!

Originally posted by ArbitraryGuy

Originally posted by Kr0n0s
If they even begin to try to accept it, then theyll start blaming oppression and poverty for their criminal behavior which is just another cop out.

It is undeniable that 220+ years of slavery followed by 100 years of Jim Crow laws and appartheid have prevented back African Americans from climbing the social and economic ladder. African Americans have only been really legally equal to Whites in the United States for the past 40 years. How is that a cop out as an explaination? On the contrary, our racist history and racists institutions ARE the explaination.

Vestiges of the old institutions still linger today in the forms of restrictions to educational access, lower wages, and, yes its true, racism in the criminal justice system. Just take a look at the numberous studies that consistently show discrimination in death sentancing. This segment from an excellent NPR show, "Justice Talking," sums it up quite nicely. Believe it or not, the tradition of racially-fuelled state-sanctioned killings continues in the USA.

The simple fact is that the three hundred plus years of institutionalized racism in the United States have set African Americans back very far economically and socially. The effects of this continue to show up in the data even today. Denying this is the cop out.

[edit on 9-8-2007 by ArbitraryGuy]

[edit on 9-8-2007 by ArbitraryGuy]

Just quoting this again because the white supremacist types conveniently ignored this.

The one guy keeps babbling "29 years, 29 years," all the while ignoring CENTURIES of white-on-black crime. Oh, my bad, it wasn't crime, as it was PERFECTLY LEGAL for whites to torture, maim, rape, and kill black people.

Why are y'all hush mouth about that? Guess it's because it shows a lot about people who used the law to commit crimes with impunity.

White supremacy, indeed.



On topic, this is only the beginning for you scaredy-cat white folks on here. Your numbers are going down not only in this country, but in the rest of the white countries of the world.

Between your low birth rates and increased immigration, y'all don't stand a chance. Ha ha ha.

And, why should y'all be surprised that people want to immigrate to the white countries? Y'all stole your wealth from the rest of the world; time to pay up in full, baby.

Oh, how could I forget the genocide perpetrated against the real Americans? Silly me.

Whites (with the aid of their smallpox) exterminated the Americans, taking them from 10 million plus to just under 300,000. That's FAR more murders than all the minorities in this country have committed COMBINED.

Seeingevil et al., sell that "whites are incapable of crime" spit to someone else. And get ready to join the white flight that is surely to come again in this country.

Originally posted by truthseeka
Seeingevil et al., sell that "whites are incapable of crime" spit to someone else.

I never said or even implied anything of the sort. And the whole of your last two posts reveal you to be the only person I've seen so far on ATS that I'd consider to be a true and genuine racist.

Between your low birth rates

Just because we dont breed uncontrollably to increase our welfare payments doesnt mean we are going extinct anytime soon.
Blacks have every opportunity that anyone else has especially when you add affirmitive action and favored status when applying for an SBA loan or college tuition. What more can you ask for?