I have a question for you christians

If you read the bible, you would know bread and meat was the staple diet, mostly lamb. Thou shall not kill...means "Man" ..not meat. There would not have been much of a human race if man could not have hunted for his food during all stages of humanity. Read you history...it may help you to know how man has lived through out history. Vegetables alone cannot be for everyone, you can't expect the rest of us to hug bunnies, its not respectible...or is that delectable? We are not all the "Same" never have been...never will be. Thats what makes us all so wonderful..

Text THE COMMANDMENT "THOU SHALT NOT KILL," WAS IMPROPERLY TRANSLATED FROM THE GREEK AND HEBREW TRANSLATIONS. IT SHOULD HAVE READ, "THOU SHALL DO NO MURDER." THE DEFINITION OF MURDER IS A CAUSELESS KILLING. WHERE DID THE IDEA COME FROM THAT CHRISTIANS START ALL THE WARS? I KNOW THAT THERE IS A RUMOR THAT PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH IS A CHRISTIAN, BUT I SORT OF DOUBT THAT, BECAUSE OF THE SATANIC SECRET SOCIETY THAT HE BELONGS TO.
THE BIGGEST PROBLEM I SEE WITH THESE CHRISTIAN/ATHEIST FORUM POSTS; IS THAT THE ATHEISTS AND AGNOSTICS ARE TRYING TO READ THE BIBLE WITH THE CARNAL MIND. IT WILL NEVER BE UNDERSTOOD THAT WAY.
UNTIL I BECAME WILLING TO BELIEVE THAT JESUS WAS THE SON OF GOD, I COULDN'T MAKE SENSE OF IT, EITHER. AFTER THAT, THE BOOK CAME ALIVE. THERE IS A DEFINITE DIFFERENCE. THE BIBLE ITSELF TELLS YOU, THIS IS TRUE. BUT I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THAT PASSAGE EITHER UNTIL I BECAME SAVED.

"Thou shalt not do murder" is a great statement, if only people would follow it. Might I issue a reminder that it was Christian nations that initiated the Crusades, during which the phrase "God wills it" was very popular.

To go further on the topic at hand, let's speak of a common cow that you might see on your drive to school or work if you live in a rural area. If it were not for the beef or dairy industry, that cow would not have lived at all. Is it better for the animal to live a life and then die, or to have never lived at all? Does the cow itself give a damn? Nope.

To a Christian, the most obvious proof that God wanted you to eat meat is right in front of your face.

Canines.

Why oh why would God have given you sharp, pointy teeth if you were not to eat meat?

[edit on 8-8-2007 by SeekerOfAUTMN]

If you really read the Bible you would see that god actually created animals for the purpose of giving man a source of food! Although there are some religious hollidays that meat is not allowed. Thou shalt not kill is meant for man killing man.

I would like to go into this subject further, I'm kind of working right now, but I would like to add that Isaiah 66:3 as quoted by the OP has been taken out of context. What God is referring to in this passage is insincere worship. God is essentially saying that going thru the motions of Temple Worship such as sacrificing oxen without really caring about God's law is as detestable to Him as murder.

Alright. It's the New Testament. And the two Commandments of Jesus.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. (And if you want the liberal bias to be included then why does anyone think I have to put up with it?)

Love your neighbor as you yourself want to be loved. (if you want war instead of peace, why do you think that again I have to put up with any of it?)

I do not! (to answer those questions.)

Now there seems to be misconceptions of why people think that the Old Testament and the Commandments Given to Moses were not the bases of the New Commandments given by Jesus.

Who is the Saviour?
Is there no Forgiveness or other Virtues?
And does everyone seek Grace from God, instead of "Power" which only reminds me of the Devil?

Now, off you go, pack your lunch, and return to the Good Life.
I have work to do, life to live, and the goal is to protect it despite some interpretations of others who claim biases and prejudices.

Thou shall not kill refers to Humans, not animals. As a Christian I enjoy killing and eating almost all forms of life other than people.

Originally posted by mrwupy
All people have a right to believe what they choose to believe. You can worship a turnip for all I care.

I just think that spirituality should be a private matter, and practiced within. As long as we keep trying to shove our own beliefs down other peoples throats, we will have conflict.

Love God, serve as you choose, let your brothers and sisters do the same.

This has got to be the brightest and most intelligent response I have ever read here at ATS. Here Here mrwupy and a star on the walk of fame for you.

But you have to realize that its human nature to want to be all up in someone elses business. humans cant help but try and make others believe as they do.

Call it jealousy or just plain being nosey, some people cant seem to get thier own lives straight but they sure know whats best for everyone else.

Great Point my friend

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
In Genesis god gives man dominion over all the animals. So I don't think the commandment against murder counts as to animals.

But seeing as how I don't believe in god or gods, but embrace evolution and the food web that we are part of, and knowing that it was meat that helped us develop this great intelligence we have now, I don't see a problem with eating animals.

Anyway, there are many animals that would eat me given half a chance. Fair's fair.

[edit: grammatical error]

[edit on 7-8-2007 by MajorMalfunction]

Did you ever think he gave us dominion to see where our heart lies?
Sort of a test. Like I said "thou shall not kill". Doesnt say people, animals,
grass or trees. It just says kill. Actually it is this meat that binds you to the material world and makes you ignorant, but hey what do I know im just a dumb vegetarian.....lol.....

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
Oh! That reminds me -- Yahweh loved blood sacrifice of animals.

So it is OK to kill the animals for god and let the meat go to waste, but not OK to eat them?

Hmmmm ... I sense another inconsistency here to add to my list.

Isaiah 1:11-15
"to what purposes is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? Saith the lord, I am full of the burnt offerings of rams and the fat of fed beast, and I delight not in the blood of bullocks or of lambs or of goats. When ye spread forth your hands I will hide mine eyes from you; when ye make many prayers I will not hear for your hands are full of blood"

The sacrifices were taken from the Vedic tradition of sacrificing an old cow in the flame brought forth by a true Brahman to get a new cow. They did not however eat the meat. The Vedic civilization was vegetarian and quite smart and quite pre Egyptian and Roman.......

Originally posted by Rren
It should read, "Thou shalt not murder." Murder is the unlawful taking of another human life.

www.biblestudy.org...


So it seems you've missed the loophole. Jesus ate meat during (at least) Passover, no? That should end your - 'Real Christians Should Be/Are Vegetarians' - argument right there.


How about this?:


Genesis 9:2-4


2And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. 3Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. 4But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.


Any thoughts on clean versus unclean animals? Why is that distinction necessary if what you say is true?


Eating meat is not forbidden by Scripture... so while you may think it better, and you may be correct, I'd be careful of framing your argument in this manner. Here's a site you might like: The Christian Vegetarian Association (CVA)

Regards.

As far as the passover thing? Can you show me were it says exactly that he ate lamb? check the end of your quote from genesis .. i think i already covered that one. As far as clean and unclean animals... this was not given by God but by Moses and if you remember he wasnt fit to go to new Isreal.

Originally posted by EricD
You may want to consider that if Christ was a vegetarian he would not have performed the 'loaves and fishes' miracle, nor would he have filled the nets with fish for the fishermen.


Eric

In rome they had a bread called Phish bread or Phish loafs. As you would go to the store and by a loaf of white bread the romans would go to the baker and by loaves of phish. But even if that was the case they were starving and just as Noah was allowed under an emergency to eat meat Jesus could the same for the starving town.

Originally posted by samnx2
If you read the bible, you would know bread and meat was the staple diet, mostly lamb. Thou shall not kill...means "Man" ..not meat. There would not have been much of a human race if man could not have hunted for his food during all stages of humanity. Read you history...it may help you to know how man has lived through out history. Vegetables alone cannot be for everyone, you can't expect the rest of us to hug bunnies, its not respectible...or is that delectable? We are not all the "Same" never have been...never will be. Thats what makes us all so wonderful..

I have an idea from reading different books on the history of man religious and scientific books on how man has lived through history but do you or have you... Besides the books you read in school that were handed down from europe through the catholic church (who by the way seem to have this plot going on to fool everyone about who Jesus was and what he stood for). The history of man is ever changing and we are starting to find that we are an older race then
the scientist of old told us. There is more evidence that we lived longer and used more of our brain coming out all the time.
Did you know that the human body processes vegetable protein faster and
more efficiently then animal protien? Most of the animal protien is flushed through your system as waste while the meat itself rots in your large intestines.

Originally posted by SeekerOfAUTMN
"Thou shalt not do murder" is a great statement, if only people would follow it. Might I issue a reminder that it was Christian nations that initiated the Crusades, during which the phrase "God wills it" was very popular.

To go further on the topic at hand, let's speak of a common cow that you might see on your drive to school or work if you live in a rural area. If it were not for the beef or dairy industry, that cow would not have lived at all. Is it better for the animal to live a life and then die, or to have never lived at all? Does the cow itself give a damn? Nope.

To a Christian, the most obvious proof that God wanted you to eat meat is right in front of your face.

Canines.

Why oh why would God have given you sharp, pointy teeth if you were not to eat meat?

[edit on 8-8-2007 by SeekerOfAUTMN]

As far as the beutiful cows ..... " He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man" Isaiah 66:3

these animals dont need the meat industry to survive. there are over populated because they are now bred only to die for people to use up there milk and then eat there flesh.
Do you know how many things you can make with milk alone. you can survive off of dairy alone with out killing for the meat.
Well im shure it was hard to grow food and find fruit during the ice age so yea im shure for survival man ate animals. So we had to adapt from eating veggies to meat so did our teeth.

[edit on 8-8-2007 by plague]

I do not believe Jesus had any direct relation to God, first off, so I'm not technically Christian, I do not hunt, I do not fish, I do not go to church and I do not consider myself Christian, and I am not a vegetarian, I eat meat just as much, if not less, than I eat vegetables. Most of my meals are made up of cups of Ramen noodles with little peas and corn mixed in or a mac and cheese 3-minute-ready-to-eat dish tray thing. Or the every once in a while cereal. I do eat meat, albeit a small amount, for dinner, but I usually have double the amount with some kind of canned vegetable.

So no, I do not follow everything said to by God or Jesus of the bible or whoever, but I do believe in Him, and the only thing I think I need to follow is that I have ethics, I know right from wrong and I generally obey the laws and the 'rules' of life.

I'm the average Joe.

Originally posted by plague

In rome they had a bread called Phish bread or Phish loafs. As you would go to the store and by a loaf of white bread the romans would go to the baker and by loaves of phish. But even if that was the case they were starving and just as Noah was allowed under an emergency to eat meat Jesus could the same for the starving town.

That makes no sense at all. If such an emergency existed and Jesus had qualms about the use of meat, why wouldn't he have created loaves and cheese? Or performed a miracle of abundance of figs?

And to your first point, are you saying that the 'fish' that were created were actually a mistranslation of a type of Roman bread? Seriously? That's your contention?


Eric

Originally posted by plague
Ok now the real question... are you a vegetarian? It is forbidden in the bible to eat meat.

No it isnt!! The bible says no animal shall be takin in its prime.

You need to read a little deeper pal.

[edit on 8/8/2007 by redseal]

I've always suspected that McDonalds was tossed upon the Earth from the bowels of hell, but I never suspected that Ronald McDonald was old scratch himself.

So far this thread has established that the OP is a vegetarian, and wants to dispatch to hell anyone who isn't. I've yet to meet a vegetarian who wasn't ready to cast a meat eater into the fire. Using the religious angle was a bit dramatic, but drama has its place I suppose.

The best part about this discussion is I don't even have to worry about any guilt, I'm not a Christian. I can eat anything I want. Well, almost anything, spicy food is starting to mess with my ulcer, again.

The path you walk will not make you holy. You must make the path holy, regardless of the path you have chosen.

Love and light,

Is everyone missing the point that God slew the 1st animal to make clothes for Adam and Eve, when He saw that they were wearing fig leaves? Mankind wasn't put here for the purpose of the earth; but everything on this earth was put here for the purpose of man. So I don't think He would have any qualms about us eating them either.
Does anyone recall the New Testament story where the Lord showed Peter the sheet with all the animals on it and said take of this and eat? And Peter cried out all 3 times that he was told to do this and said, "Lord!You know I won't eat any unclean animal!" And the Lord told him that whatever He blessed was good for eating. Which lifted the Mosaic Law on what a Christian could and couldn't eat. I think Catholics fast meat on Fridays except for fish. But that is their choice and doctrine.

You needn't be a believer in creationism to realise that the human digestive system is that of an omnivore which makes sense to me as it guarantees the best chance of survival under all imaginable environmental conditions. Intelligent design perhaps but it's obvious that meat in combination with plants is the optimum diet for our species.