I have a question for you christians

Originally posted by mrwupy

The path you walk will not make you holy. You must make the path holy, regardless of the path you have chosen.

Well said, mrwupy.

To state that God may look down upon one, even condemn, just because they eat meat is ludicris. In any case, this discussion will just spiral around from here, no doubt. You can't convince someone to change their views from this angle.

People these days... Always so ready to crucify...

First off I must say thank you for all of your replies, and thoughts. It is clear from what perspective you are all coming from. You all tell me to look deeper into the sastras yet most of you dont understand them and only want to except those things that will keep you binded to your terrestrial body here in the material world no matter who (even Jesus) tells you different. To truly understand the bible in its original form you must give up all preconcieved notions of what your body is. We are bounded here to the material plane by our lust.

LUST=bodily appetite, overmastering desire.

Lust is not just a sexual appetite and it is not healthy for the spirit soul.

Now some of you actually argued back with some scripture which is great but most just babbled back some stuff they probably overheard while sleeping in church. Either way it makes no difference. So you can rattle off a 100 verses from the bible but it doent mean a thing unless you understand it. Im shure you will all blast me back saying that I dont understand or I need to read deeper or maybe I should twist the sastra so that I can do whatever I want. I hope that one day all of your consciousnesses can be raised to a higher platform then were they are, and when this happens I hope you can think about this thread and how you disgustingly defended the brutality of killing another living entity and eating it and then used Gods words to make it ok.


[edit on 9-8-2007 by plague]

I used to believe in the Bible as being the book that could not be wrong, but as a person evolves spritually and in the capability to discern their own truth, the Bible seems to be only bits of truth. It is obvious that the average man of the period the Bible was written had some hand in how the final print turned out, and so I always take what the Bible says with a pinch of salt. I do love Jesus, and feel His teachings are all that seem to be fully accurate in the Book.
However, I agree that one's spiritual journey is personal, and no one can truely argue with what another says about spiritual matters until he or she has found the divine truth...
As for the whole vegetarian thing, the real question is that if we can fully engage thought and free will when it comes to diets, and if we can live without meat, why do we still kill? My answer would be that you can't get out of a habit so steeped in human history, even if it includes the killing of animals. Also, at the time of the writting of the Bible, animals were of course eaten as there was hardly any other sources of protein, so it is generally accepted that the commandment of 'Thou shall not kill' meant exclusively other humans...
Moy!

Originally posted by plague
Im shure you will all blast me back saying that I dont understand or I need to read deeper or maybe I should twist the sastra so that I can do whatever I want. I hope that one day all of your consciousnesses can be raised to a higher platform then were they are, and when this happens I hope you can think about this thread and how you disgustingly defended the brutality of killing another living entity and eating it and then used Gods words to make it ok.

Wow, All rise for judge mental.

Look Plaque, you have the right to walk your own path and feel good about it. When you start trying to walk the path of others or judging the path of others is where the problem begins.

My path is between my creator and myself and quite frankly none of your business. If I choose to eat meat, and I do, I don't give one tinkers damn if it offends you or if you think it's wrong.

You need to concentrate on your own spiritual growth, because you have much to learn. The first thing I think you would be wise to meditate on is love. Condemnation is not a product of love and so far that is all you have shown here.

An open eye with a closed mind is the breeding ground of contempt. Your closed mind tells you what it thinks is wrong and your open eye looks for that fault in others. It's a very sad state of existence. I hope you overcome it.

In the mean time, remember love. It is the key to the creator.

Love and light,

wupy

Face it, we have to kill to eat. What makes the life of an animal more valuable than the life of a plant? The life of a plant is taken in the process of it becoming food for us, as well. That being said, "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." (Matt. 4:4)

You should also face the fact that the words in your opening post, regardless of intent, were patently false. Pride and prejudice will not resolve that, only exacerbate it.

Again, as in my previous post, I speak from my own personal experience with the truth, having made, and destined to make, numerous mistakes along my way, and cast no further aspersions upon you than the fallacy of your initial post.

Matthew 19

14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

15 And he laid his hands on them, and departed thence.

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

You cannot follow Christ and make judgements at the same time. You must either Judge, or follow Christ.

Today most "Chrsitians" are actually just Judges... wanting to be right, and wanting everyone else to be wrong.

Originally posted by plague
Ok now the real question... are you a vegetarian? It is forbidden in the bible to eat meat.

You have read incorrectly. It is OKAY to eat meat, and it states so in the Bible. In fact, it states that before the Flood, Mankind didn't eat meat, but that after the Flood, Mankind was permitted to eat meat.

And we have been ever since.

And if we hadn't been eating meat for thousands of years, society would be nothing as it is today. People would have nowhere near the same intelligence as they do today. Proteins from meat is what made our human brains so powerful. It's sad but true.

PS: Jesus ate meat (fish is meat).

[edit on 8/10/2007 by runetang]

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
Face it, we have to kill to eat. What makes the life of an animal more valuable than the life of a plant? The life of a plant is taken in the process of it becoming food for us, as well. That being said, "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." (Matt. 4:4)

Yes there is karma induced by killing vegetation, but not if its offered first to God. God does not except animal flesh as a worthy sacrifice.
Krishna states this to Arjuna in the Bhavagad Gita then again some 5,000 or so years later God speaks to the children of Isreal.Read the book of Isiah.... I beg of you to read it for your own good.
God says he doesnt want the blood of bulls lambs and goats .....he then says he will not except there sacrifices because the blood of the innocent is on there hands..... Its obvious what he is speaking of.
As far as Mathew 4:4.... please dont twist Jesus's words for your own argument. Every one knows exactly what he meant. He was starving and the devil tempted him.... hey your the all powerful son of god you can make bread appear and eat it. Jesus then replies with what you quoted.
You have to remember that Jesus was on a higher platform of consciousness... he understood fully that we are not this flesh .. we are not this material body but that we are jiva or made of a pure soul that is part and parcel of god and his great energy. He is right man cannot liveth off bread alone but with the true love and understanding of god and his words you can live with out bread. Because your soul can never perish nor does it starve for food or water just the love of god and how do we get that love through the words of god.

You should also face the fact that the words in your opening post, regardless of intent, were patently false. Pride and prejudice will not resolve that, only exacerbate it.

Again, as in my previous post, I speak from my own personal experience with the truth, having made, and destined to make, numerous mistakes along my way, and cast no further aspersions upon you than the fallacy of your initial post.

Matthew 19



17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Murder is murder. Man (yes I mean males) can defend themselves at will, it is our duty as a civilised society to protect those who cant. Like women, children, the elderly and the defensles animals. Now not all animals are defensless.... lions, tigers and bears ..OH MY (sorry couldnt help) will kill and eat you so its wise to defend yourself if need be, but yet ive never seen a cow run a man down and kill him for the fun of it or to eat him. Yes if provoked but Iknow first hand of how dog like cows can be if they dont fear you. Deer, rabbits, pigs...these are all defensless creatures who would not harm you but yet you feel the need to invoke your power onto them like masters to there slaves. Its funny how we only really eat the vegetarian animals...........

Now ive heard in previous post that Jesus ate meat at passover before he was crucified. I asked that person to point it out but got no reply....so I looked it up. You can find it in The book of Luke 22....
Jesus tells his desciples to go prepare the meal. Yet it only talks of him
drinking whine and eating bread..... hhmmm. I guess we are to
ass-u-me that he ate lamb, but as I just pointed out. what happens when we assume???????

The fish thing again. Well lets see...again
there was a bread they made in rome that was shaped like a fish ....they called it Phish Bead. Now in Luke 24: 41-43(depending on what bible you have) " Have ye any brosimos? And he was given a fish and a honeycomb. And he TOOK IT" he took it ...not them both ... now we go back to Isiah 7: 15 " by the time this child is old enough to choose what is right and reject what is wrong he will be eating yogurt and HONEY"...
They do call it the land of MILK AND HONEY not STEAK AND CHICKEN...






9

I can’t believe I’m still responding to this thread after the condescending, supercilious and pedantic comments by the OP, but it seems unlikely to me that Jesus would aid fishermen if he was a vegetarian.

Luke 5:4
Now when he had left speaking, he said unto Simon, Launch out into the deep, and let down your nets for a draught.
5:5And Simon answering said unto him, Master, we have toiled all the night, and have taken nothing: nevertheless at thy word I will let down the net.
5:6And when they had this done, they inclosed a great multitude of fishes: and their net brake.
5:7And they beckoned unto [their] partners, which were in the other ship, that they should come and help them. And they came, and filled both the ships, so that they began to sink.


Eric

Romans 14:1 - 23 (Holman Christian Standard Version)

Accept anyone who is weak in faith, but don't argue about doubtful issues.
One person believes he may eat anything, but one who is weak eats only vegetables. One who eats must not look down on one who does not eat; and one who does not eat must not criticize one who does, because God has accepted him.

Who are you to criticize another's household slave? Before his own Lord he stands or falls. And stand he will! For the Lord is able to make him stand. One person considers one day to be above another day. Someone else considers every day to be the same. Each one must be fully convinced in his own mind. Whoever observes the day, observes it to the Lord. Whoever eats, eats to the Lord, since he gives thanks to God; and whoever does not eat, it is to the Lord that he does not eat, yet he thanks God. For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. Christ died and came to life for this: that He might rule over both the dead and the living. But you, why do you criticize your brother? Or you, why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. For it is written: As I live, says the Lord, every knee will bow to Me, and every tongue will give praise to God. So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God. Therefore, let us no longer criticize one another, but instead decide not to put a stumbling block or pitfall in your brother's way. (I know and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself. Still, to someone who considers a thing to be unclean, to that one it is unclean.) For if your brother is hurt by what you eat, you are no longer walking according to love. By what you eat, do not destroy that one for whom Christ died. Therefore, do not let your good be slandered, for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit. Whoever serves the Messiah in this way is acceptable to God and approved by men. So then, we must pursue what promotes peace and what builds up one another. Do not tear down God's work because of food. Everything is clean, but it is wrong for a man to cause stumbling by what he eats. It is a noble thing not to eat meat, or drink wine, or do anything that makes your brother stumble. Do you have faith? Keep it to yourself before God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. But whoever doubts stands condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith, and everything that is not from faith is sin.

Titus 3:9 (Holman Christian Standard Version)

But avoid foolish debates, genealogies, quarrels, and disputes about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.

EricD....
Good call but you missed the point. They forsook all (which means they gave up everything ....there family, there fishing job and the fish) to follow Jesus. Jesus taught and showed his power and mercy according to time and circumstance. He wanted to show his future disciples his glory. He did so by showing them that even though they had been fishing all day and caught nothing that with the lords help anything is possible. Well they trusted in Jesus and there cup runnith over. Runnith over so much that the nets broke and the ships began to sink. Afterwards Jesus said from here forth We will catch men. He used the fish as a teaching lesson for them ... they were fisherman and Jesus was trying to show them the way. H e showed them that anything was possible and he also showed them in a round about way what they would be doing for him in his service.... catching men to follow the word of god. besides what a better way for the fish to give up there life then in the service of the lord.... helping him share his glory. Sorry but the story shows nothing to point to Jesus eating fish or not being a vegetarian. Ever heard the saying the lord works in mysteries ways....well thats one of them.

Funkydung,
Thank you that is an excelent post. Krishna also says in the Bhavagad Gita that if you eat that which is not first offered (and meat is unofferable)up to god will eat sin. Im sorry if I have done offenses on anyone here but I feel very strong about my point. And I know from reading the bible that Jesus was a vegetarian and I know that god frowns on eating meat in the bible just as he did in the Gita.

You assume I twist Matt. 4:4 to support meat eating. Wrong again. I use it to support Matt. 15:11, which you have yet to address, as it puts the lie to your whole pedantic rant.

Alright, lets take it back into the Old Testament.

Attention Athiests, please open to your favorite chapter, Leviticus.

In Leviticus, it states which animals are clean and proper to eat, and which ones are not clean and proper to eat. It also discusses what is good for a burnt offering.

In Levitcus it states that you may eat meat so long as it is from a hooved animal. Animals with no hooves are forbidden, such as cats and dogs. Pigs have hooves but are forbidden because they eat other animals. Animals that eat other animals as their main diet are forbidden. Birds of prey are forbidden, but regular birds are fair game.

Meat: God told you to eat it!

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
You assume I twist Matt. 4:4 to support meat eating. Wrong again. I use it to support Matt. 15:11, which you have yet to address, as it puts the lie to your whole pedantic rant.

So you support that it doesnt matter if you wash your hands before you eat. Please read the whole scripture not just bits and pieces. Also remember Jesus taught according to time and circumstance. So now what are you supporting???? I keep pointing out that Jesus was on some next level teaching and you must listen/read it all to understand... what seems simple atfirst is not so simple.

[edit on 10-8-2007 by plague]

I have read and continue to read the Bible in its entirety.

You may have the right "meek will inherit the earth" intent, but your approach is way off the straight and narrow, imo. Washing the outside of the cup.

Originally posted by runetang
Alright, lets take it back into the Old Testament.

Attention Athiests, please open to your favorite chapter, Leviticus.

In Leviticus, it states which animals are clean and proper to eat, and which ones are not clean and proper to eat. It also discusses what is good for a burnt offering.

In Levitcus it states that you may eat meat so long as it is from a hooved animal. Animals with no hooves are forbidden, such as cats and dogs. Pigs have hooves but are forbidden because they eat other animals. Animals that eat other animals as their main diet are forbidden. Birds of prey are forbidden, but regular birds are fair game.

Meat: God told you to eat it!

First off remember how when Moses was given the comandments they were written in stone by the finger of god. Writin in stone means just that.
Now in Levitcus he is getting info from the Tabernacle. Which could lead to some confusion and like I said earlier when Levitcus was brought up ...why was Moses not pure enough to enter new Isreal?

Now yes he give Moses the run down about all the animals who can be sacrificed. But now check out 3:17 "you must never eat any fat or blood."
No matter how much you cook something you cant cook out all the blood. It becomes absorbed into the meat.

Only the high priest can eat the meat of any sacrifice with the exception of the peace offering which anyone as long as the followed the rules could eat, but yet again remember 3:17......
God says this again in 7:22-27......
So I ask you how do you eat the meat with out the blood .....

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
I have read and continue to read the Bible in its entirety.

You may have the right "meek will inherit the earth" intent, but your approach is way off the straight and narrow, imo. Washing the outside of the cup.

When you finally come to the realization that you are not your body but JIVA you will realise that the inside of the cup never gets dirty....

That's right. The spirit of the law is life. I support that.

I'm an omnivore. I used to hunt and fish quite a bit. I give thanks to God for all His provision, and I find the entire process of gathering, preparing, and consuming food a blessing and a pleasure. Cleaning up isn't always fun, but it has to be done.

Isn't vegetarian an old Native American word for "bad hunter?"