How can you honestly believe in God.

reply to post by jakyll


1) If a being exists,then it must have some active tendency.
2) If beings have some active tendency,then they have some power to resist God.
3) If beings have the power to resist God,then God does not have absolute power.
4)And if God does not have absolute power then he does not have absolute control.


I guess you choose to ignore this!! Yes or no?
Do you understand what i mean?

To look at it from your point of view....if the "Devil" can corrupt those that have heard the word of Jesus,who is in fact God,means that God is not all powerful.It means that,not only does an Angel have a power to defy God,it means lowly and flawed humans do too! That means evil is stronger than God! Why is the "Devil" stronger than God,"his" creator?
How is that possible if God is omniscience,omnipresence,and benevolent?
If love is the goal,then love has to be stronger than everything else,if not,many will never reach it!!


The link below,from everyone's favoutrite site,may give you more information.

reply to post by depth om


Why are humans servants to God?
He does not need us to be.He did not create Adam and Eve as servants,but after the first sin he demanded it!

If that is how you see it then i ask,why did God create evil?
If there was no sin,God would not have to "command" us to do anything!
If there is no sin,we would not have to repent and ask for forgiveness!

Faith should exist so people can willingly follow God.Faith should not exist because God has commanded it! No one should be forced to believe! No one should be forced to be a servant! Which is the purer form of worship,forced or willing?



(to HIFIGUY.)

"Blessed are you poor, For yours is the kingdom of God…Woe to you who are rich, For you have received your consolation"; and,"Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. "Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."; and, "Sell your possessions and give to charity; make yourselves money belts which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near nor moth destroys." (Luke 6:20, 24; Matt. 19:23-24; Luke 12:33)

Have you sold all your possessions in order to go help your fellow man??

Obviously there are different types of riches;
Bill Gates is richer than Madonna.
Madonna is richer than Me.
I am richer than an Ethiopian...etc...

But the bottom line is,if Christians truly believed in Jesus,they would have no material possessions.They would work to keep themselves fed and work to help others.Those with families would work to keep their families fed and healthy,and they would still help others.Going to church and preaching the word of God is not enough! Millions of people need help,but where are all the Christians?? Buying music,clothes,films,computers,cars,holidays...and so many other things they don't need! Where are all the Christians? Putting the money they don't use into a bank account!

Matt. 6:19-24

"Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where you treasure is, there your heart will be also…"

[edit on 21-9-2007 by jakyll]

Originally posted by AncientVoid
Does free will and servant go together?

You chose to become a servant. It's easy to see your mission objectives. Help your fellow man. See yourself in all other humans. Act accordingly. people will see a difference. Those who wish to ask about it, will.

Also... scripture says, Don't travel to far-away lands to help men... first help in your own backyard, your community.

That's what I try to do. Praise be to God, people have asked me why, I tell them what I myself came to know, we exist in the temporal, God is not on our level... He's the king of all, and he invites us into his kingdom.

It's up to you to open the invitation and claim your position in his family.







[edit on 21-9-2007 by depth om]

Originally posted by jakyll
(to HIFIGUY.)

"Blessed are you poor, For yours is the kingdom of God…Woe to you who are rich, For you have received your consolation"; and,"Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. "Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."; and, "Sell your possessions and give to charity; make yourselves money belts which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near nor moth destroys." (Luke 6:20, 24; Matt. 19:23-24; Luke 12:33)

Originally posted by jakyll
Have you sold all your possessions in order to go help your fellow man??

I have a computer, a cell phone, a camera and some clothes. Everything I own can fit into 3-plastic clothes bins and into the back of your car.

Obviously there are different types of riches;
Bill Gates is richer than Madonna.
Madonna is richer than Me.
I am richer than an Ethiopian...etc...

But the bottom line is,if Christians truly believed in Jesus,they would have no material possessions.They would work to keep themselves fed and work to help others.

Its not about Rich...its about those who fill their homes with lavishness while their fellow man is in rags or is starving to death. We fund wars on principle of peace while the larger humanitarian problems are out of control.
With the Internet we are without excuse of ignorance in these matters.

Here is another version of the Eye of the Needle quote for those that need a kicker..

11. And the other said to him, Master, what good thing shall I do and live? Jesus said, Perform the Law and the prophets. He answered, I have performed them. Jesus answered, Go, sell all thou hast and divide with the poor, and follow me. But this saying pleased him not. And the Lord said unto him, How sayest thou that thou hast performed the Law and the prophets? Behold many of thy brethren are clad with filthy rags, dying from hunger and thy house is full of much goods, and there goeth from it nought unto them. And he said unto Simon, It is hard for the rich to enter the kingdom of heaven, for the rich care for themselves, and despise them that have not.

40 Million South American Homeless Children
600 Million Homeless Worldwide
60 Million Die of starvation every year
6 Million Children starve to death every year

Not in your neighborhood you say? We are without excuse with the internet now. The question is whether we sit on our hands and do nothing.
Spend billion on a freedom Tower while horrid living conditions exist for many worldwide. In Bombay India, a Billionair builds a multibillion dollar high rise for himself while people literally are living on the sidewalks.

Whatsoever you do unto the least of your brethren, you do unto me...( Jesus Christ ) I think thats pretty clear....

The world spends 1.25 Trillion a year on weapons. A gross imbalance

Its time we start getting our priorities straight.

As for depth Om...well what can I say

Originally posted by depth om
You chose to become a servant. It's easy to see your mission objectives. Help your fellow man. See yourself in all other humans. Act accordingly. people will see a difference. Those who wish to ask about it, will.

Indeed. Said with such clarity, and a message that once we understand Christ, just starts to ring true.

The world will NOT see peace or tranquility until all men adopt that quote by Depth. That message is not his own. That is the only way. Its the way of Truth

See my Signature? Think Christ was talking about America?

The stone which the builders rejected becomes the Capstone

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti

Peace


[edit on 21-9-2007 by HIFIGUY]

[edit on 21-9-2007 by HIFIGUY]

reply to post by HIFIGUY


There is one thing i agree on with you 100%,and that is how we treat poor people.But when you point the finger at business' and the like,there is one other you should add to the list.The Catholic Church!

Not only does the church have enough money to make Soloman blush,they also own huge amounts of land and property around the world! Then there are places like Lambeth Palace and the Vatican.These seats of power are packed to the rafters with so many treasures, arts,antiques etc that they would literally fetch billions if sold!!


Now,back to disagreeing with you,lol.

The world will NOT see peace or tranquility until all men adopt that quote by Depth. That message is not his own. That is the only way. Its the way of Truth

Tranquility and harmony could exist in our lifetime,if God would only put an end to that which does not need to exist.EVIL!!


[edit on 21-9-2007 by jakyll]

reply to post by jakyll


God will extinguish evil once and for all.

I believe he is longing for more of his servants to spread the gospel.

If his judgement came today, what about all the people that will be saved tommorow... God is waiting for more to open their eyes I believe!

Your mission, if you choose to except it... is to find more who are willing to serve... more who are willing to come to Christ.

Evil does not take a day off! Those in need surround you!


[edit on 21-9-2007 by depth om]

I agree on the Catholic Church Topic.

I dont need a building with Doors to do the will of the Father nor did Jesus.
He did his work on the streets.

The concept of commerce and people not doing anything unless they get paid is part of the error in thinking. Could you imagine Adam and Eve in the garden telling God that they werent going to work it unless they had a full benefits package and a 401K plan?

The systems that are in place here on earth are men of craft.

The system wont work, until the system that should have been is in place.

This evil you speak of is in EVERY man. This evil yoiu speak of, can be shed if one merely seeks to do so. This is not Gods duty, it is our duty.

For even in Heaven, there is scriputer that speaks of Angels up to no good, such as the book of Enoch.

Evil and mankind is like the Alocholic that cant figure out why he keeps losing his job and wrecking his car. Things wont change until he recognizes that the disease ( or Evil ) which is was implemented within him ends with him changing his ways.

If he dies in the process, all we can do is go look and say...whoa..Lets not become an alocholic..see what happened to that guy?

So it is in society and our communities. There is real injustice and real imbalance in the world. When Kings lived lavishly while their regions starved, eventually the castle and the King were toast. Look at the Roman empire.

This process were going through indeed may be looking for more followers, but ultimately, the process, if we dont recognize the correct way, will doom us to destruction.

Therefore, Revelation tells, that ultimately we still dont get it and that Divine force comes into play. Then the Truth is known, and even then people will be resistent and there will be much nashing of teeth.

Serving each other, and not elevating ones own self over another is the only way. Until we get that, mankind will experiment with a multitude of ways and systems before the end time comes be it the end of the earth by the end of the sun, or the coming of Christ himself or the coming of a way where Love one another is the Law of the Land and war is an art unknown.

Peace

[edit on 21-9-2007 by HIFIGUY]

reply to post by depth om


And all the while he's waiting people are being killed,women and children are being raped,countries are going to war,children are killing their fellow classmates,people are stealing,people are doing drugs,the elderly are being beaten up,millions are starving,innocent people are being held captive,people are being kidnapped,people are being tortured.....i'm sure i don't need to go on.

Its so easy for those who are not suffering to say God is waiting!
But try saying that too someone who starves,works as part of a slave labour force and gets beaten and abused on a regular bases!!
I'm sure they will find comfort that,not only is God waiting for them to convert,the misery won't stop because he'll still be waiting for more to join him!! Thats a level of cruelty that beggars belief!
In fact its like the kind of insane belief you get with people who thought Hitler,Stalin and Pol Pot were actually nice guys who just happened to have a few flaws

reply to post by jakyll


If men could control themselves... free will...

reply to post by HIFIGUY



God creates Evil.
God creates Man.
Man commits Sin.
God blames the Devil.
Man blames Man.
Man commits more Sin,
because God created Evil.


LOL.

reply to post by jakyll


Kinda like the US and Iraq when we wanted them to overthrow saddam right? 500,000 people died during those sanctions.

Two men are in a room. I give enough food for a week. I leave and come back and see one man starving while the other has beaten him and taken the food for himself.

We drill oil dericks next to famine and reap Billions to a select group of people called a company while the population is in shambles.

This isnt God doing this...this is Mankind.

Its not hard to that people of power and influence keep systems which maintain power and influence. While people talk of the fall of the Roman Empire, we the people handed England its butt in its own hands because of injustice.

If America isnt careful, we too may find that our ways of excess became our demise.

When Americas currency has lost value and her economy is hurting, your not going to find too many foreign countries patting us on the back feeling sorry for us...most are going to say you were one bad ass country that went out of control.

Now, lets work for real equality of all men, Liberty and Justice. Feed the poor and free the oppressed, and build a nation on a solid foundation and not one of greed and vanity. It start here at home.

The best message worldwide is the one you set within your own country.
With 25% of the worlds prison population in the US when we are only 5% of the worlds population, something just isnt right.
Peace

[edit on 21-9-2007 by HIFIGUY]

Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by HIFIGUY

 

God creates Evil.
God creates Man.
Man commits Sin.
God blames the Devil.
Man blames Man.
Man commits more Sin,
because God created Evil.


LOL.

Take water, you are thirsty. It will provide you with much needed hydration.

You decline and think that the water is Evil and you die.

Sin is error in thought. Sin is error in way.

To Love God, and to Love one another is not an error.

Its a Command

Next time, drink fool!

Peace

Duplicate

[edit on 21-9-2007 by HIFIGUY]

Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by HIFIGUY

 

God creates Evil.
God creates Man.
Man commits Sin.
God blames the Devil.
Man blames Man.
Man commits more Sin,
because God created Evil.


LOL.

Take water, you are thirsty. It will provide you with much needed hydration.

You decline and think that the water is Evil when in fact it was Good and you die.

Sin is error in thought. Sin is error in way. You chose to error

To Love God, and to Love one another is not an error

Its a Command

The water is the Truth. Evil is a lie.

When you exchange the Truth for a lie, there is Death

Peace

[edit on 21-9-2007 by HIFIGUY]

[edit on 21-9-2007 by HIFIGUY]

reply to post by depth om


... Are you serious? You think those people want to suffer? We can't control others if you didn't know. W8 maybe you can... hmm religion?


[edit on 21-9-2007 by AncientVoid]

reply to post by AncientVoid


Control others?

Imagine this...

Truckloads of food and materials for housing and shelter in abundance everywhere.

Now..you can sit back and carry an AK 47 and try to horde it all or you can get with the program building a community.

Lets look at the options...

You can keep all the food for yourself while others starve..Oh yeah..theres a choice thats always a favorite.

How about sell it back to them? Oh yeah..they have no money. Tell them to get an economy. This sickens me.

Its not about control, its about the right way to be and if you cant figure it out religion, democracy, compassion or otherwise, well, at what point do I have to tell someone how to wipe their own butt.? You know, he Military has a class on it.

Wiping ones own butt? Thats freewill isnt it? You want to use sandpaper? go ahead. Water or a softmaterial. The world as a whole uses tissue paper.
Something most of us can agree on.

Mankind figured out the wiping the butt thing through trial and error. Now if we can move on to Peace for all and love.

You see..There is a way that is Best. Ancient, it isnt about control, its about seeing the world as a whole. If you have a better way Im all ears, but until then, Mutual love and respect for all seems to be the right way.

People who love each other dont shoot each other. We give. What person here would give their child an AK47? Better yet let them starve? I would hope no one.

It is in compassion, giving, curing, Love, understanding, that we find the Truth. That in that truth, the world begins to change.

Until see other peoples children as your own around the Globe, and until we start acting as a global family, problems are going to continue.

Last time I checked, we dont have corporations in familys. My mother didnt issue me a debit card

Seen Zimbabway in the news? It takes a trunk load of money for food.

The system of commerce is broken and it creats injustice around the world. Time to give and stop worrying about the bottom line.

Peace

[edit on 21-9-2007 by HIFIGUY]

[edit on 21-9-2007 by HIFIGUY]

[edit on 21-9-2007 by HIFIGUY]

reply to post by HIFIGUY


You write so much,but say so little!!

Giving out parables does not answer peoples questions and queries!

[edit on 21-9-2007 by jakyll]

reply to post by depth om


Do you believe that a person should always tell the truth,no matter what,no matter the circumstances??

reply to post by jakyll


Ill answer that.

Yes

Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by HIFIGUY

 

You write so much,but say so little!!

Giving out parables does not answer peoples questions and queries!

[edit on 21-9-2007 by jakyll]

Agree...