How can you honestly believe in God.

reply to post by DarkSide


indeed... we can't know both exactly where that banana is and exactly how fast it's dancing..

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

if things didn't occur randomly we'd be able to predict certain events to 100% accuracy.

[edit on 9/12/07 by madnessinmysoul]

We could, if only our instruments were sensitive enough.

Nothing is "random".

Randomness, is attributed to not knowing the reason for something. If you know not, why a certain occurence has occured, there is a factor of randomness. This randomness is merely not knowing all the actors in a play, and their lines so to speak.

Heisenberg stated that it is impossible to determine simultaneously and with unlimited accuracy the position and momentum of a particle. This does not mean the particle lacks a definite and assured momentum and position. Man just isn't able to catalogue those factors as of now.

The uncertainty principle was intended to apply only to the motion of atomic particles. That should put up a red flag in your grey matter.

There is nothing inherently random. Only inherent confusion over an issue or calculation.

No measurement is exact because of the instrument compromises its environment. Measurement is exact only in our stencil of absolutes. Not in the real world.

Whatever you study, you change.

The minds eye is the most sensitive and powerful instrument in existence. When the mind holds information, it can compute and test within itself. Thereby ruling out the heisenberg uncertainty principle. Deeper, deeper still. Don't let current knowledge restrain you, there is more. Einstein saw pictures that taught, inside his minds eye.

"Whether Einstein's view (local realism) or Heisenberg's view is true or false is not a directly empirical matter. One criterion by which we may judge the success of a scientific theory is the explanatory power it gives us, and to date it seems that Heisenberg's view has been the better at explaining physical subatomic phenomena." For now!

That which comes before, determines what comes next. _insert banana
man_

Back on topic. I can honestly believe in God because I've gotten more from that belief than any other.

Originally posted by depth om
Back on topic. I can honestly believe in God because I've gotten more from that belief than any other.

Good for you, but have you tried all the other beliefs out there?

God gave man free will, yet 'you do this and your going to hell'. Some free will... If you call that 'free will' then good for you guys...

reply to post by depth om


well, now we're just getting into a semantic breakdown of what the word random means...

Originally posted by depth om
Back on topic. I can honestly believe in God because I've gotten more from that belief than any other.

that has nothing to do with the validity of the belief.

Originally posted by AncientVoid

Good for you, but have you tried all the other beliefs out there?

God gave man free will, yet 'you do this and your going to hell'. Some free will... If you call that 'free will' then good for you guys...

No I have not tried every single other belief, though I have delved quite deep into an almagation of wu wei practices, and mahayana buddhism. I rejected any and all forms of idol and thought worship. I will not revere a statue or picture or a way of thinking. Only God deserves reverence. Only the Old Singularity. The Mystery King who gives to those who are obedient and steadfast in their faith and practice.

I had my own beliefs and conceptions of the construct and how and why certain things occur before coming to Christ. I kept finding parallels in my own logic to that of Gods. Prayer worked, God made himself known to me one day after an event, it was actually very frightening! It let me know that eyes are always on us, and if we walk in accordance with God, great things manifest.

Now, you do have free will, you can do anything you want to on earth. When man thinks big, he usually needs to develop a technology that allows him to do... what he wants. Free will exists here!

You see a baby turtle on the road, frying, you can either help it or pass it. Free will. You are not cemented to a choice or certain action. Free will exists, I repeat!

We all have faith, even an atheistic man. Faith in our own certainties. So if you feel you are certain that hell is imaginary, have faith in that assumption. I on the other hand will choose this... good deeds are rewarded, bad deeds are judged.

reply to post by depth om


...i don't think any atheist is certain of anything belief wise. even posterboy richard dawkins says that he is "ALMOST certain there is no god"
we have a healthy level of skepticism, even when it comes to our own conclusions.

[edit on 9/13/07 by madnessinmysoul]

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by depth om

 

...i don't think any atheist is certain of anything belief wise. even posterboy richard dawkins says that he is "ALMOST certain there is no god"
we have a healthy level of skepticism, even when it comes to our own conclusions.

[edit on 9/13/07 by madnessinmysoul]

This is what makes a christian a christian. Total faith. You either have total faith or indecision.

I have total faith in Christ.

(as much as i can currently muster that is. Christians no matter what, stumble in their walks The world is right in front of our eyes, thus making it easier to "follow".)

reply to post by depth om


and total faith is quite the bad thing...

only people with total faith that they're going to go to heaven as heroes will blow themselves up for a cause

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
and total faith is quite the bad thing...

only people with total faith that they're going to go to heaven as heroes will blow themselves up for a cause

Your argument is null concerning the christian, "going to heaven as heroes".

I'm going to heaven as a servant, as are all other believers. We aren't on a quest for recognition in heaven, we're on a quest to get our names in the book and serve God.

They are simply, extremists in their course of action. A destructive course of action, not a building one.

Originally posted by depth om
Your argument is null concerning the christian, "going to heaven as heroes".

I'm going to heaven as a servant, as are all other believers. We aren't on a quest for recognition in heaven, we're on a quest to get our names in the book and serve God.

Did god tell you this? Or the however old bible?

reply to post by depth om


um... pure faith is also bad in other respects. it makes people turn away from scientific truth.. just look at how gallileo was treated because of people's faith.

today, evolutionary science is facing opposition from ignorance driven by faith.
as is medical science.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by depth om

 

um... pure faith is also bad in other respects. it makes people turn away from scientific truth.. just look at how gallileo was treated because of people's faith.

today, evolutionary science is facing opposition from ignorance driven by faith.
as is medical science.

I'm not turning away from science... and neither are alot of other christians.

reply to post by depth om


so you accept stem cell research?
if not, do you have any non-religious reasons for it?

do you accept evolution?
if not, do you have any non-religious reasons for it?

do you accept modern geological dating of the earth?
if not, do you have any non-religious reasons for it?

do you accept modern cosmological dating of the universe?
if not, do you have any non-religious reasons for it?

etc etc on the issues currently being attacked by religion

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


I accept certain types of stem cell research.

I accept everything else you said with a grain of salt.

I accept our sciences may seem to disprove the Book at times, but I know that there is a vast loving eternal energy that is God, and I believe and accept that christ was this energy made man.

Regardless of what may be disproven... these two things will cease to change for me.

I think my personal idea of God is vastly different than yours simply by these discussions. My brother, I love you as such! That's true talk, I'm tired of bitter argument and I want to build! I saw something tonight that solidified this faith of mine!

I accept many of the leading ideas of man, because I myself am a man who knows the ingenuity of our mind!

I also accept though, that whatever may arise, God is there! The old King will remain!

I just want you to know brother, that I love you as a family member, a member of my earthly family, and I'd love to sit and have a beer with you and enjoy what God would like us all to do most, get along.

Peace

There are many minds in our society...many beliefs.

Are we judge/jury/and exocutioner to these many intricate thoughts?

It is my belief, that we should not be too quick to 'pen our own idiosyncrasies' to an otherwise socialogical premises.

Originally posted by depth om
I just want you to know brother, that I love you as a family member, a member of my earthly family, and I'd love to sit and have a beer with you and enjoy what God would like us all to do most, get along.

Peace

How can you love someone you don't know? It's like saying you love a random fruit you never tasted.

Correct me if i'm wrong...

reply to post by AncientVoid


It can all be in the context.

This could also mean: "I respect you as a person...with much admiration for your mind and spirit"

I'm really sick and tired of Semantics

I really tire of nitpicking of words.

You have NO idea.

"Take it in the sense that thou wilst"

reply to post by depth om


what's unfortunate is that a frighteningly large percentage of the world's religious population can't say most of that stuff.

and honestly, it's a book written by human hands... would you expect it to be perfect? even if some deity was the inspiration, humans tend not to get things 100% right.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Thats because it contains the word of their God,they think it can not be corrupted.But we know it can.
So,kinda like you said,how can i flawed creation be perfect or write the word of God correctly,especially when all of mankind interperates and experiances things differently.....

Now, you do have free will, you can do anything you want to on earth. When man thinks big, he usually needs to develop a technology that allows him to do... what he wants. Free will exists here!

This quote comes from the site,vexen.co.uk
Any who are interested in the concept of free will should have a look....

""""Ephesians' in the Christian Bible is a letter written around 61CE or 62CE by an unknown author claiming to be Paul. Some historians believe the author based this letter on the letter of Paul to Colossians. [Roberts, 1990]

"3Praise be to [God], who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he[a] predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves."

Ephesians 1:4-6 [NIV]

It is only through Jesus Christ, say Christians, that Human beings can enter heaven. (Hence why Christianity is called what it is). The verse above says that God has blessed "us" with Christ. The "us" are those who God chose, before creation, to be "holy and blameless". You can only enter heaven if you are blameless, without sin, and to do that you need Jesus. But you only have Jesus if God has chosen you as one of the ones who is blessed with Jesus. It specifically says, next, that God has predetermined particular chosen people to be sons of Jesus. To this lucky people God has "freely given" Jesus. To the others, there is no access to heaven. All of this is chosen, predetermined, before we have had any chance to exercise free will. The cause and affect is not that our free will determines out fate; but that we will act in a way that will save us, if God has chosen us to act that way. It clearly denies free will.""""


And,for a different slant,this quote from Hindu philosopher Swami Vivekananda(a Vedantist.)

""""The will is not free, it is a phenomenon bound by cause and effect, but there is something behind the will which is free.Therefore we see at once that there cannot be any such thing as free-will; the very words are a contradiction, because will is what we know, and everything that we know is within our universe, and everything within our universe is moulded by conditions of time, space and causality. ... To acquire freedom we have to get beyond the limitations of this universe; it cannot be found here.""""

how can i believe in god?
im an extremly dizzy person.
i just got a driving license and a car before a month
i prey a little every time before i drive (funny ha?remember when u were on my place?)
i was going to get hit 100 times but luck saved me,i drived in super heavy storm,my run out of gas,dont know what more,still no accident.
this is why i believe